Who and what is Jesus? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God?
Part 03 Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Scripture clearly tell us who Jesus really is

Matthew 3:17 (English-NIV)
“And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased”

If the Father is God, then who is Jesus?
Well the above scripture says that Jesus is God’s son. The scriptures are very clear with the identity of Jesus.
Jesus even asked Peter who he was and Jesus commended Peter for his answer. In fact Jesus built his Church on the truth that Peter uttered.

In Matthew 16:13-17 (English-NIV) it says
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,
“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Notice that Peter didn’t say to Jesus, “You are God”, as many today say. If Jesus were God then this would have been the perfect opportunity to declare that?

Many people today given this opportunity would declare that Jesus is God. So why didn’t Peter just say that Jesus was God as most who believe in the Trinity would have. Because this revelation didn’t come from man or man’s wisdom, but from the Father. The Father also revealed this sacred truth to James, John, and Peter with Elijah and Moses as witnesses:

Mark 9:7 (English-NIV)
Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!”

So who are we to argue or change this truth?
See also Matthew 17:5 for a parallel account and 2 Peter 1:17 as confirmation
It is also interesting to note that the demons never referred to Jesus as God. They referred to him as the Son of God. See Matthew 8:29 (English-NIV)
“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

Luke 4:41 (English-NIV)
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ.

Even Satan didn’t refer to Jesus as God but rather the Son of God.

See Matthew 4:3-6 (English-NIV)
3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
4 Jesus answered, “It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Philippians 2:8-11 shows us that eventually everyone will confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This is the correct confession. If everyone will eventually confess this truth, then why not start now. To declare that Jesus Christ is God is a different confession and shows a lack of understanding about who Jesus really is.

8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death, even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Many today do not understand that Lord and God are 2 different words. Just as Pharaoh was the true ruler of Egypt, he gave his authority to Joseph who was Lord over all the Pharaoh’s kingdom. It must also be noted that Lord and LORD are 2 different words. The Father is LORD and Jesus is Lord. Translators capitalize the name of God as LORD which causes this confusion. So Jesus being Lord is not the same as the LORD in the Old Testament. LORD comes from the name of God, YHWH.

To say that Jesus is the LORD is to say that he is the one true God (YHWH) and it is not correct and nor is it taught in scripture. When referring to Jesus, he is Lord and we know that there are many lords. Landlords, warlords, lords over kingdoms etc. But God made Jesus Lord over all creation or over all that is of God.

Acts 2:36 (English NIV)
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Acts 10:36 (English NIV)
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Seven scriptures that paint a clear picture about Jesus and who he is

These scripture do not mention a Trinity or even hint at such a thought.
If you want to believe in the real Jesus, then believe these scriptures, and know that they were inspired by God himself. If we are true disciples, we will trust in the scriptures rather than the cleverly devised doctrines of man.

Colossians 1:12-16 (English-NIV)
12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Hebrews 1:1-6 (English-NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Revelation 1:4-6 (English-NIV)
4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,
5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Fatherhood him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

John 1:1 (English-NIV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god/theos.

Ephesians 1:22
And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

Revelation 3:14 (English-KJV)
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

John 1:3 (English-NIV)
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

These 7 passages of scripture show us the following:
God has spoken to us through the prophets and now his son. The son is that exact brightness of God’s glory. He is the express image of God. God sustains all things by his Word (Jesus is the Word of God). He is seated at the right hand of God He inherited a name more superior to the Angels. God became a Father when he begat his son “You are my Son, today I have become your Father”. Jesus God is our God too. He is the firstborn from the dead. Jesus has first place in everything. Jesus is head over the Church. He is God’s firstborn. Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God.

So Jesus is the Image of God, the Son of God and the beginning of the creation of God. Being an image is another way to say you are not the original. That concurs with a son not being the Father. This is very easy to understand, but the Trinity Doctrine confuses the minds of many believers, so that they do not understand the truth that God is one person/identity and that this God has a son who is like him.

Further clarification on who Jesus really is

The Trinity Doctrine would have us believe that the Father and Son have always existed for all eternity together, when in actual fact it is God the Father who has existed for all eternity. It may be true that Jesus existed for all time because time is a part of the created universe and we know that the Jesus being the son is of the Father and creation came through Jesus. By creation I mean us too. And to take it further, the woman came from the man. So it is the Father who is the one who is from everlasting to everlasting see the following scripture:

Revelation 1:4-6 (English-NIV)
4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,
5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,

Jesus is the Word of God. Another title that states he is of God or from God. Revelation 19:11-13 (English-KJV)
11  I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True.
With justice he judges and makes war.
12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

Acts 3:15 (English-NIV)
You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.

Here we can see that Jesus is the author of life, yet it was God that raised him from the dead. So we cannot say as many do that Jesus is God because creation came from him. Rather we have to understand that God created all things though his Word, who is Christ.

The next scripture shows us that the Father is God and Jesus is his son. We read that Jesus himself learned obedience through suffering, just like us. We are then called to obey Jesus who is the high priest and our eternal salvation. But if Jesus were God, then how could he actually learn something. Isn’t God suppose to be all knowing?

Hebrews 5:8-10 (English-NIV)
8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered
9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Continuing with the theme of God being all knowing, below you will see scriptures that show us that Jesus was not all knowing.

Matthew 24:36 (English-NIV)
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

John 5:30 (English-NIV)
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Mark 10:17-18 (English-NIV)
17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he
asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good, except God alone.

Here we can see that Jesus said that only God is good, and he made it quite plain that he did not want to be called good.
Jesus also doesn’t know the hour that he will return to earth, and he also testified that he does nothing of himself, only what he hears from God. These 3 scriptures show a different picture than the 3 persons in 1 God formula called the Trinity, that was devised by man, hundreds of years after the last book in the bible was written, and is not mentioned in either the Old or New Testament. To truly honor Jesus Christ we must honor who he is. Remember that Jesus is the Truth. He is the Son of the Living God, the Messiah. So we must not only believe the truth with regards to who Jesus really is, but we must also recognize that he is the Truth. If we say that Jesus is one of the equal persons that make up God, then we are not speaking the truth, rather we are following the doctrines of man and demon. Jesus taught us clearly that his Father is his God and that he is greater than himself. To truly honor the Father we must honor his Son. To honor Jesus is to believe the truth about him and believe his own words.

John 14:28 (English-NIV)
“You heard me say, `I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

John 13:16 (English-NIV)
I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

John 6:29 (English NIV)
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

John 8:42 (English NIV)
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

When Jesus came to earth he came for a reason. He came to destroy the works of the Devil. See the next 2 scriptures:

Hebrews 2:14 (English-NIV)
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil

1 John 3:8 (English-NIV)
He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.
The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Jesus also came to show us God, to declare him and to bring us back into fellowship with God, this actually equates to destroying the work of the Devil. It is the Devils works that have alienated Man from God, it is Jesus works commissioned by the Father that brings man back to God.

John 17:26 (English-NIV)
I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

John 14:8-9 (English-NIV)
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father’? Here we can see that Jesus was teaching the disciples about the Father.

Jesus was not saying he was the Father, he was declaring/revealing him. Jesus was also showing the disciples who he was, i.e. the Image of God. That is why he could say “If you have seen me you have seen the Father”. If we want to know what our Father, (the invisible eternal Spirit) looks like, then all we have to do is look at Jesus who is the image of the invisible God. He is the likeness of God in bodily form. He is the only begotten Son of God and remember that he is the only one who can see God and the only one who can declare him.

John 1:18 (English-KJV)
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The next scriptures point out quite clearly that we must honor the Son if we are to honor our Father God.

John 5:23 (English-NIV)
that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

John 12:44 (English-NIV)
Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.

If Jesus is the Image of his Father, then it makes sense that whatever we say about Jesus we are also saying about his Father. If we slander Jesus then we are slandering God, not because Jesus is God, rather he is like God. If you slander the Son would that not be offensive to the Father. It is interesting to note that Jesus also said that whatever we say about the least of his brethren, we are saying it to him, this is because we (believers) are being made into the image of Christ. But this doesn’t actually make us Christ, rather we are like him. God -> Christ -> Man/Church.

Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.

So just as the Deity is in Christ, Christ is in us. But some try to say that Jesus is the Deity, yet they know full well that we are not Christ. To be divine and to be the Divine are 2 different things. One identifies a nature/quality and the other identifies a person or identity. God is the Divine and he shares his nature with his family, i.e., his sons. Christ has divine nature. But we can also partake of the divine nature and even then we are not God and nor will we ever be God.

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

The next 3 scriptures show us all good gifts come from the Father, this even includes Jesus himself and God’s Spirit too. God begat Jesus and God’s Spirit proceeds from himself. We were given birth from God through the Word of Truth who is Jesus. This confirms that the head of man is Christ.

James 1:17-18 (English-NIV)
17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created.

Romans 8:32 (English-NIV)
He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

Luke 11:13 (English-NIV)
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

We know that Jesus is the Son of God, but do we believers worship him?

Hebrews 1:6 (English-NIV)
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him. This verse shows us that God wants his Angels to worship Jesus.

Matthew 2:2 (English-NIV)
and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.”

Matthew 2:8 (English-NIV)
He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and make a careful search for the child.
As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”

But doesn’t worshipping Jesus contradict many scriptures?

Exodus 34:14 (English-NIV)
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD , whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Luke 4:8 (English-NIV)
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’

Worshipping Jesus is scriptural and actually doesn’t contradict the above scriptures. Why? Because we do not worship Jesus as God, rather the Son of God and the Lamb of God.

Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Revelation 5: 12-14 (English-NIV)
12 In a loud voice they sang: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

The last verse above shows us that God and Jesus are worshipped in heaven. We worship Jesus as the Son of God and we worship the Father as God. All honor and worship to Jesus is really honor and worship to the Father anyway, because Jesus is the only way to God. Not all worship and praise is identified as being toward God alone. At times God’s servants receive praise such as King David, but such praise glorifies God. For if God’s representatives receive praise for doing the will of God, then it is ultimately God that receives that praise. We can even worship God by simply acknowledging the beauty of nature and the universe, as long as we acknowledge that God created then. So Jesus shares the same honor that is due to the Father as he visibly represents his Father, the Invisible God.

John 5:23 (English-NIV)
that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

John 14:6 (English-NIV)
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The Trinity Doctrine encourages people to worship three as God

Those who worship the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as 3 separate persons and each as God are really worshipping more than one God. Trinitarian believers will refute this and say that the three persons are one God, yet they worship any of the 3 that they want to at anytime. Let’s just get real here and admit that such people worship three Gods. On one day it may be the Son, another the Father and another the Holy Spirit or all at the same time. But the scriptures are very clear with regards to worshipping the one true God. YHWH is the one true God. So the scriptures are quite clear as to who Jesus is. He is the Son of God and the Messiah. We also know that by it’s very definition, a Father is the originator and a Son has a source.

Is the son the same age as the Father?

Some people believe that Jesus Christ did not exist before his birth on earth, even though they acknowledge that Jesus is the Logos/Word. They say that he didn’t actually exist as a person till he was clothed in flesh and was born on this earth. Others say that Jesus is eternal like the Father in the sense that he has always existed as the Son. In other words God has always been a father. What do the scriptures say about this?

John 6:8
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

The above scripture points out two things. First, that Jesus came from Heaven, so he must have existed in Heaven before his birth as a man, and secondly that he has his own will and he chose to align his will with God’s will meaning that he is not God but another.

The next scripture shows clearly that Christ existed before he came to earth.

John 1:15
John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ “

We know from scripture that John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is physically impossible for Christ to be before him. This verse shows pre-existence.

Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

This verse is either saying that glory, majesty, power… before all ages or it is saying the same thing but through Jesus Christ before all ages. Most translations favour the second option, but some do not mention the ‘through Jesus Christ’ part such as the King James version. I leave that one up to you to think about.

1Corinthians 10:1-4
1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

So it is possible that Christ accompanied Moses and the Jews when they left Egypt. Although this strictly speaking is the anointing, it could also refer to the one who is anointed.

Colossians 1:15-17
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

So God who created all things, created them through Christ. Surely this suggests that he must have existed before all things in order for God to create all things. The universe, the angels, man, and animals existed before Jesus was born as a man. But the scriptures say that God created all these things through Christ.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

So Jesus had glory before the world began. How can some people say that Jesus didn’t pre-exist his earthly existence as a man?

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Luke 10:18
He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Compare Luke 10:18 with Revelation 12:1-10. Jesus said that he saw Satan fall. Was this in a vision or did he literally see him fall?.

John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

The last verse says I am, which means I exist or I existed. This is the clearest statement of Jesus existing before he came to earth as a man. Jesus himself said these words, so who are we to say otherwise?

Finally to conclude this part of the study, I want to point out a very interesting scripture from the Book of Proverbs. The verse is Proverbs 8:22-30  and it talks about the concept of wisdom, then to wisdom himself:

22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. 24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, 26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, 29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,

From this verse we can see the following points.

  • This person was brought forth as the first of Gods works. This person was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. This person was given birth before creation.
  • This person was the craftsman at his side and rejoiced in his presence before creation.
  • This person is not the same age as the Father.

But some say that Wisdom isn’t Christ, rather this is just wisdom in a conceptual sense and it is true that wisdom is being spoken of in that way as wisdom is referred to as a she. But from verse 22 onward it changes tempo. With terms like I was given birth, I was the craftsman at his side and I was filled with delight, we have to admit that it seems to be talking about a person.

Even today we refer to objects or concepts as ‘she’. We call boats, cars, storms, etc., ‘she’. e.g., “She was a bad storm alright”, or “She can really go fast”. But if I said “He can really go fast” when talking about a car, then no one would understand what I meant and would think I was talking about a person and not a car.

But if wisdom in God was the first to be begotten (brought forth) then who was really first to be begotten? Was it wisdom or the son? Or are they one in the same? For God created all things with wisdom and would it be incorrect to call Jesus ‘Wisdom’. If God created all things in truth, would it be incorrect to call Christ the ‘Truth’. If God who is the originator of all life gave that life to his son, then could we not say that Jesus is the ‘Life’. It appears that he is all those concepts or attributes of God, but personified. After all God created all creation through Christ and so would it not be befitting for Christ to be the personification of all those attributes of God.

Remember these two points:

  1. That the fullness of God’s nature dwells in Christ and Christ is a person. So if he reflects the fullness of God, then would it not be fair to say that Christ has all the attributes of God in person. He is God’s image after all.
  2. That Christ is between God and creation. He is the part or person where creation interfaces with God and God interfaces with creation. He is the only mediator for us. God created all things through his wisdom, and through his Word. Are both the Word and Wisdom Jesus Christ? Look at 1 Corinthians 1:24 (English-NIV)
    but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

    1 Corinthians 1:30 (English-NIV)
    It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

Let’s look at a range of God’s attributes that Jesus personifies:

  • truth
  • life
  • light
  • peace
  • word
  • wisdom?

If we go back to Proverbs 8:22-30 and look at John 1:1, we see the following similarities.

John 1:1 (English-NIV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god.
Compare with “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works” and “I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began”. Proverbs 8 22-23

Hebrews 1:5-6 (English-NIV)
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
Compare with “When there were no oceans, I was given birth”. Proverbs 8:24

Colossians 1:15-16 (English-NIV)
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Compare with “Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,”. Proverbs 8:30


Discussion

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    Proclaimer
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    “They are TWO distinct divine persons.”

    Yes, they are.

    …our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:3

    Exactly. One is God and one is his Son.

    #868196
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…..Having the essence of something does not make you that essence,  the Spirit of God,  which you use in a ‘mysterious” form as meaning the same as, it a “LIE”  the “essence”  never makes you that essence ,  the spirit of God  can be considered as an essence of God,  but that does not make anyone who has it a God,  not none of those who were anointed with it, like  MOSES, THE PROPHETS  the seventy elders of Israel,  JOHN THE BAPTIST, NOR THE MAN JESUS, nor any of the Saints of God. None of them who have the “essence ” ie, Spirit  of God,  ever made anyone a God,  as you false teachers , and that includes The “man” Jesus. 

    Carmel, we  like Jesus, believe in “ONLY” ONE TRUE GOD,  and it sure was not Jesus. When are you ever going to start to believe like Jesus believed, and pray to him who Jesus prayed to? You know the “ONE” he told us to pray to. To his GOD AND “OUR” GOD, HIS FATHER AND “OUR” FATHER. He showed us all how to pray,  “OUR” Father who is in heaven.  DID YOU NOTICE THE WORD “OUR” there , that he was including us equally as him, but you false teachers try desperately to move Jesus away from his human brothers and sister and enthrone him as you GOD, Jesus would not do that in a milliom years, or even think , NOR try to even portray himself as a GOD .  Repent while you still can Carmel, or you will face your Idolatrous teaching at his comming.  2THS2.  

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    #868197
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @berean

    “SO God IS LORD AND GOD

    YAHWEH ELOHIM THE FATHER IN PERSONALITY

    THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD IS LORD AND IS ONE WITH THE FATHER”

    Yes. This is why you see ‘Lord GOD,’ when in the original languages it said “The Master/Lord YHVH.” Or LORD God, when in the original langauges it said “YHVH, God.”

     

    #868202
    Ed J
    Participant

    “They are TWO distinct divine persons.”

    Yes, they are.

    …our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:3

    Exactly. One is God and one is his Son.

    Hi Proclaimer, YES, so simple!

    Why does religion try to muddy the clear water of “The Word” of God ????

    That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
    That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or
    wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” (Eph 5:26-27)

    #868206
    carmel
    Participant

    Carmel…..Having the essence of something does not make you that essence,

    Gene,

    I DID NOT SAY JESUS HAVE THE ESSENCE OF THE FATHER  OK?

    I SAID:

    JESUS IS 

    ONE

    ESSENCE WITH THE FATHER!

    NOW JUST TO BE AWARE WHAT THE DEFINITION OF

    ESSENCE IS LET’S READ

    http://www.merriam-webster.com

    Essence  noun

    Definition of essence

    1a: the permanent as contrasted with the accidental element of being

    ME: JESUS IS THE PERMANENT ELEMENT OF GOD!

    Answer: WHAT IS JESUS Gene IN RELATION OF

    BEING

    ONE ESSENCE

    WITH THE FATHER?

    b: the individual, real, or ultimate nature of a thing especially as opposed to its existence.

    JESUS IS THE INDIVIDUAL, REAL, OR ULTIMATE NATURE OF GOD!

    Answer: WHAT IS JESUS Gene IN RELATION OF

    BEING

    ONE ESSENCE

    WITH THE FATHER?

    c: the properties or attributes by means of which something can be placed in its proper class or identified as being what it is

    JESUS HAS THE PROPERTIES AND ATTRIBUTES  BY MEANS HE CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS BEING 

    GOD!

    Answer: WHAT IS JESUS Gene IN RELATION OF

    BEING

    ONE ESSENCE

    WITH THE FATHER

    Gene BOTH THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW TESTAMENT CONFIRMS THAT

    JESUS IS GOD!

    THE ONLY THING THAT SCRIPTURE DOES NOT DECLARE IS

    WHAT GOD IS EXCEPT THAT HE IS

    A SPIRIT

    SOMETHING WHICH YOU, ESPECIALLY YOU AND JODI, 

    DO NOT RESPECT

    IN RELATION TO 

    WHAT BOTH OF YOU PREACH!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #868209
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    You asked:

    LU and others. Do you say ‘yes yes’, ‘yes no’, or what.

    Are both statements true?

    1.For us, there is one God the Father and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.
    2.For us, there is one Lord the Father and one God, the God Jesus Christ

    My answer:

    1.Yes

    2.No

    Question for you Proclaimer:

    Regarding Hebrews 1:8… (btw, notice the Greek article before the word “theos”):

    Screen Shot 2020-12-15 at 12.46.36 AM

    But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

    Does the word “theos” in the above verse apply to the Father or to the Son? 

    LU

    #868214
    Nobody_Special
    Participant

    Wakeup wrote

    One must reach the finish line before receiving the reward.
    One must cross the turbulent waters,and reach dry ground before he can say ;I am saved.

    You say you are a new christian,that means ;you have just entered the door of salvation. Behind that door is a narrow path to follow.
    During your walk,there will be many great temptations to resist.
    Seek the scriptures and you shall find.For it is life.

    You have some things to seek the Lord and develop your spiritual sight and comprehension.

    Regarding the Word, and Spirit. Born of incorruptible seed, the living and abiding Word of God. His words are spirit and life; able to quicken the soul. It’s the power in the Word, it needs fertile soil, and water to grow. There is life there, but needed to be cultivated. Think a seed, it has life potential in it.

    We are responsible for our faith, in abiding in the True vine, in nourishing that within us

    (Until Christ be formed in you; we are growing up into Him the Head; being conformed into the image of Christ )

    Not neglecting so great a salvation, but working out our salvation with fear and trembling ( 1 peter 1 :17, sojourners fear )

     

    There are some interesting concepts you mention, test all and hold fast to what is good. There are deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons…

    the heart is established with grace, and the pure milk of the Word, do not be moved from the simplicity in Christ.  He is our everything and enough.

    Be content with godliness!

    1 Peter 1:9
    [9]Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

    Only at the end?

    (Christian faith and continuance [col 1:23] as a condition of salvation, otherwise an unbeliever, hypocrite, or apostate rebel?)

    Hebrews 10:36
    [36]For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

    Labor to enter the rest. Ceased from their works (fell asleep/ died)

    What is the promise?

    Romans 8:23
    [23]And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

    Hmmm. The adoption is future? How this changes the dynamic of Christianity,…  we can eagerly await, anticipate, an eager expectation what is promised  will be brought to pass, looking for the glorious appearing of our Lord and savior Jesus, moment by moment, because we know we are pilgrims and sojourners on the earth, and this world is not our home.

    Also, it can be now and later. We who have the firstfruits of the spirit… our outer body is perishing, but the inner man is being renewed day by day.

    Ephesians 1:14
    [14]Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Ephesians 4:30
    [30]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    When is that?

    1 Corinthians 15:42-43,49,52,54
    [42]So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
    [43]It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
    [49]And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
    [52]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    [54]So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    Still future, eh?

    1 Thessalonians 4:16
    [16]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    Probably linked, less clear in this verse.

    re: having a new spirit, literally receiving the same spirit of Christ

    If the spirit raised Christ dwells in you

    Romans 8:11
    [11]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    Ephesians 4:22-24
    [22]That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

    Flesh, old identity

    [23]And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
    [24]And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    Conformed into the image of Christ,

    The firstborn (G4416 prototokas) of many brethren

    Romans 8:29
    [29]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

     

    Blessings in Christ!

    #868215
    Nobody_Special
    Participant

    Hello LU

    I know you didn’t ask me, yet I respond.

    Look at the reference in Hebrews 1:8, is Psalms 45:6 . H430 is elohiym.

    H3068 is YHWH or Jehovah (German [and spanish] have a non “Jay” sounding J, it is a Y sound. English mispronounced and continued, to the pronunciation Jehovah we have heard today)

    Psalms 82:6-7
    [6]I have said, Ye are gods;(H430) and all of you are children of the most High.
    [7]But ye shall die* like men, and fall like one of the princes.

    *Clearly not gods as we would define them

    Psalms 96:4-5
    [4]For the LORD (H3068) is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods.(H430)
    [5]For all the gods(H430) of the nations are idols: but the LORD(H3068) made the heavens.

    H430 Contrasted with H3068 YHWH

    Deuteronomy 32:17
    [17]They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; (H433) to gods(H430) whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

    H433 is diety or The Diety

    So who could these H430 be?

    Ephesians 6:12
    [12]For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers (G2888) of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    G2888 is kosmokrator. As in world ruler.

    Ephesians 2:2
    [2]Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,(G2889) according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    G2889 is kosmos

    1 John 2:15
    [15]Love not the world(G2889), neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

    John 15:19
    [19]If ye were of the world,(G2889) the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    1 John 4:3
    [3]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.(G2889)

    Just saying, might be the principalities and rulers of the nations, the cosmic behind the scenes spiritual warfare … explains why they are anti-Christ, they lose control.

     

    Re: trinity
    ,
    Colossians 1:15,17,19
    [15]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    [17]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    [19]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

    Colossians 2:9
    [9]For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    [6]But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    John 10:30
    [30]I and my Father are one.

    1 John 5:7
    [7]For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

    1 Corinthians 11:3
    [3]But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

    Not ventriloquism :
    Luke 3:22
    [22]And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

    2 Corinthians 13:14
    [14]The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. (The second epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, a city of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.)

     

    Blessings in Christ!

     

    #868218
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nobody-special……thanks here is something that might add to this.

    Col 2:9….For “IN” him,  “dwells” all the fullness of the Godhead bodily “.  

    Yes Jesus said “the Father is in me”,  but that never made him the Father that was “IN” him. 

    The exact same thing applies to ALL WHO HAS THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLING “IN” THEM. 

    “know you not that your body “IS” the temple of GOD”?  here are some scriptures that show this. 

    1CO 6:14……AND God has both raised up the lord, and will “also” raise up us by his own power.

    15…..know you not that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

    16……What? Know you not that he which is joined to an harlot is “one” body? for two, saith he, shall be “one flesh”. 

    17….But he that is joined unto the Lord is “one spirit” 

    18….Flee fornication. EVERY sin that a man does is without t he body; but he that commits fornication sins against his own body.

    19…..What know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost , which “is” “in” you, which you have of God , and you are not your own.?

    20……For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify “God” which is “IN”  your “BODY”, and “IN” your spirit, which are God’s”. 

    This exact same thing applies to the “man” Jesus exactly as it does us. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

     

     

     

    #868219
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @berean

    Yahweh is called in the Old Testament both God and Lord.
    The Hebrew word for God is Elohim and the Hebrew word for Lord is Adonai.

    So 1 Corinthians 8:6 doesn’t prove unitarianism.
    Don’t let these guys confuse you!
    I’m outta here, God bless you!

    #868221
    Berean
    Participant

     

    PSALMS 24

    JESUS AS KING OF GLORY IN THE PHASE OF ENTERING THROUGH THE GATES OF THE HOLY CITY OF GOD AFTER HIS RESURRECTION
    AND U.S ?

    1] The earth is the LORD’s, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
    [2] For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.

    [3] Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
    [4] He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
    [5] He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.                            [6] This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.

    [7] Lift up your head, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

    [8] Who is this King of glory?

    The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.(see ISIAH 9:6)

    Hebrew Transliterated
    24:8 MY ZH MLK HKBVD YHVH ‘yZVZ VGBVUr YHVH GBVUr MLChMH.

    [9] Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

    [10] Who is this King of glory?

    The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

    Hebrew Transliterated
    24:10 MY HV’a ZH MLK HKBVD YHVH TShB’aVTh HV’a MLK HKBVD SLH.

     

     

    – Who is this King of glory? The other half of the choir, acting as keepers of the doors, inquires, as if ignorant of the motive and character of the procession, “Who is this King of glory?” – who is it to whom ye give this high-sounding appellation, and to whom ye require us to open? And the reply follows from the previous speakers. The Lord strong and mighty, the Lord mighty in battle. It is Jehovah, the Strong and Mighty One-strong in himself, mighty in his acts, mighty especially in battle; whom ye may therefore be glad to receive among you as your Defence. It is this King for whom we demand admission.

    #868222
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Yahweh is called in the Old Testament both God and Lord.
    The Hebrew word for God is Elohim and the Hebrew word for Lord is Adonai.

    Simple question. If Jesus is YHWH, then who is his Son?

    #868225
    Lightenup
    Participant

    YHWH is two persons, Father and Son.

    God of gods = Father

    Lord of lords = Son

    Together they are One.

    Deut 10:17

    For Yahweh your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the awesome, who doesn’t respect persons, nor takes reward.

    Believers are their sons.

    LU

    #868226
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Welcome Nobody_Special,

    Are you brand new to Heaven Net or have you been here before by another name? I’m wondering what question specifically are you addressing of mine and what is your answer in just as few of words as possible. Is it regarding this question:

    But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

    Does the word “theos” in the above verse apply to the Father or to the Son?

    BTW, don’t undermine yourself, you are someone special, made in the very image of the God of the universe.

    I hope you enjoy your time at HN.

    LU

    #868227
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    If Jesus is YHWH, then Jesus has a son. Simple as that.

    But let’s run with the idea and replace the Word ‘God’ in scripture with ‘Trinity’ or ‘Binity’ and see what we get.

    John 3:16
    “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Becomes:

    “For THE TRINITY so loved the world that THE TRINITY gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    See how ridiculous this is. It denies Jesus sonship and denies God is a HE or HIM.

    Once again, you are being tricked about Jesus being God’s Son. Teaching against this shows the Antichrist spirit at work which is known for denying the Son.

    #868228
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Here are 100 verses that break when you assume that God is a Trinity or Binity. Click on the heading.

    100 indisputable proof verses – The Trinity Doctrine

    #868231
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer. …..isn’t it amazing how so much proof the bible has against the trinity and Jesus being a God, yet most all of Christanity HAS BEEN SO BRAIN WASHED OVER THOUSANDS OF YEARS , they completely deny them.  Shows how truly guliable people really are., And you didn’t even mention what is written in the old Testement.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    #868232
    Nobody_Special
    Participant
    1.  I didn’t make a statement, just provided the Word of God. Preconceived notions are interesting.
    2. Metanoia is repentance, changing our minds about?
    3. Are we trying to find the Truth, worship the One True Living God, or demean “Trinitarian” Christians?
    4. SDA and Sabbath keepers tend to focus on wrath and impending judgment of the Catholic and offshoot protestants (they didn’t reform it all the way to the roots) and call it a harlot church. Dangerous doctrine. Let’s say the Holy Spirit given to men after pentecost is a separate entity than : God the Father in the Holy of Holies or : God the Son ministering priestly duties on the throne (an aside: is Jesus on the throne now or later, [He currently has the keys of death and life] I Guess Jesus is only on the throne of believers (hearts) who are in the Kingdom of light, living by His rulership and following His Words, commands, rules.) If that is the case, then those denying, imply the 3rd member of the Godhead (trinity) is unworthy (demon, unclean spirit or Satan). Sounds dangerously close to blasphemy of the holy spirit. Those people appear to fall from grace emphasizing works and will worship ( self righteousness ) while embodying the spirit of accuser and slandering / being an adversary (what is the Hebrew meaning of Satan, again?) of the true saints of God ?!
    5. Why are cults labeled differently among different groups? Most evangelical & reformed Christianity agrees JW are cults, as Mormons, and others who deny the God-ness of Jesus.
    6. Well if Jesus is created, He cannot be God, and rightfully receive worship (unless God made Him both Lord and Christ). If we bring Jesus down, we aren’t reverential and kissing the son psalms 2:12. After all, Thomas said my Lord and my God.
    7. Arm of salvation. Image of the invisible God, could Jesus literally be the right arm/hand of God, not the full picture, but no less God and that is revealed to us? Lamb chops sock puppet show?
    8. What if Jesus is the God of man? [God appointed Jesus to Receive and direct Worship to Him as an intermediary conduit] Let’s say God was going to destroy everyone, but The Word, Jesus (as the husbandman) stepped in and said, let me fertilize around the tree. Let me show them how to live right.
    9. Image of the invisible God. Conformed into His image, the image of Christ, God said, let us make man in our own image. He xeroxed the Word (Angel/avatar/Image) of the Lord of Hosts, preincarnate Jesus, and made Adam 1.0
    10. What are the ramifications of Jesus being God, how does that undo true religion? Because people believe they are right with Jesus, they stop trying? They don’t believe they need to work out salvation with fear and trembling, they don’t believe man can stop sinning, thereby they stay in slavery to sin. If they aren’t  worshipping the One True God they are committing idolatry. If Jesus is a (perfect sinless) man, they are responsible for being like the master and stop sinning because He is perfect man with Holy spirit and we received the same, so let’s go, faith to faith glory to glory.
    11. God needed a physical vessel to put the image in, so before Jesus the man, The Word was the image /”angel of the Lord” directed by God the Father (noone has seen, He is Spirit). The Lord of Hosts is the avatar of God the Father, if you will. The representation of the
    12. 2nd Adam (2.0) is a life giving spirit, Truly made in the image of God
    13. What’s the purpose of the communication of God toward man? Stop running, hiding, fear not, only believe. He touched me and I revived. That they know you, and the one you sent. And all the world will know I AM the Lord
    14. Jesus said, it is not I, my Father speaks through me
    15. This guy’s site says Christ is a new reality (almost like “quadity”) Father, Word, Holy Spirit converged in Jesus the man, after the life and death, in the glorification is Christ, the completion, man united in harmony in God , restoring the rightful order, the Kosmos
    16. John 3:16 for God so loved the Order, He gave His son (Word made flesh, Logos, plan, schema, ) so you would not perish in destruction
    17. The head of woman is man, man is Christ, Christ is God.
    18. Whether in earth or in heaven, reconciling the world to himself in Christ.
    19. God wishing to make known to the world (the angelic entities) the riches of His grace toward you (believing mortal human).
    20. This might have some NT wright influence but I’ve only read about him
    21. Jesus is full of Grace and Truth, He is in the bosom, closest to the Father,(only Jesus could convey the Nature of God in Human Form) at the appropriate time, the revelation of the mystery of Godliness, God man-ifested in the flesh, received into glory… for our sakes He became poor, he derobed (same word as angels left their first estate [multidimensional immortal to 3 dimensional mortal], he left His place as rightful heir of everything and took the place of a servant to make whosoever right with God. Jesus submitted to the will of the Father. (Showing us the high holy way of eternity, suffering for righteousness sake, good overcomes evil, selfless agape love fulfills the law)
    22. He wanted to show us He was there in our suffering.  Whenever we sinned, He was being smitten and grieved. The punishment of our iniquity fell on Him. Proud man says I’ll take my lumps, do the time for the crime. No, grace says I’ll deny myself, I’ll suffer so you may live. Those who have been forgiven much, love much. Those who have received grace, give, and count it a pleasure to serve the Lord and follow in His footsteps.
    23. Why faith? God is, and we receive His revelation of what pleases Him. There is a possibility of Faith being a supernatural law that God will not change (because of His nature, linked to free will). So we have to start with believing God is, True, Good, Loving. And go from there. God is One, and made ONE way, ONLY through Jesus.
    24. Executor of the Will of God. The muscle. The frontman bodyguard. Getting intel from the earpiece and relaying communicating the information. (Holiness is obeying the Word. Spirit of Truth, life making it happen, carrying out the Word in a real way, the living Word) Do angels have freewill? They do, then is their faith complete? Choosing wrong for them would be akin to you being in your highest ecstasy, then saying nope, gonna commit suicide right now and suffer with Satan (when you’re in a good place, why 180 to super death, misery unimaginable eternal neverending suffering? Why forsake the Living God?) In His presence is fullness of joy.
    25. Flying lips. If people worshiped flying lips because they spoke to them saying  I AM God. Who is the entity behind the visible flying lips? (Light shone in hearts to give light of knowledge of glory of God in the face of Jesus [may His face shine upon you and give you peace])
    26. Message of grace. Why would God show us favor and kindness when we have done wickedly?  At one time you were alienated in your mind through your wicked works [1 pet 321 baptism that saves you, clean conscience]. We did it ignorantly and in unbelief.
    27. Why send His son in the form of a Man to tell us what to do? Clearly we weren’t listening to Him directly or the law or the prophets
    28. The devil tried to separate us from God, so God is jealous over our soul, our wellbeing and our hearts and love and life.
    29. Demons power is fear and lies (faith in them) God’s power is Truth our faith and trust in Him.
    30. The world is like a freewill simulator to see who is worthy. Would you let just whoever into your house? Or hiring for your company? Would you put them through a test and only the ones you want? Remember Genesis 3:4 you are to rule over the desire. Be mighty in faith and the Word and put the devil in Check, on notice. Proclaim the victory in Jesus!
    #868233
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Do you belong to a denomination Mr Nobody?

    #868234
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    For Yahweh your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the awesome, who doesn’t respect persons, nor takes reward.

    And HE made Jesus Lord over his creation.

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