Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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  • Author
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  • #312721
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 13 2012,10:22)

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2012,23:39)
    Hi Mike,

    Do you not believe that the son's of God mentioned
    in Genesis 6:2 were “Angels” and “Not Human”?


    Ed,

    Didn't I already answer that question?   ???

    YES, they were ANGELS.

    Is it possible for a spirit being to impregnate a human woman without first manifesting a flesh body?  (Think: God and Mary)

    Is there any scriptural indication that these spirit beings manifested flesh bodies before impregnating human women?


    Hi Mike,

    “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
    and they took them wives of all which they chose.” (Genesis 6:2)

    I believe this verse (in and of itself) is a strong indicator of a non-
    celibate relationship they had taking the daughters of Adam to wife.     …thus indicating them having physical bodies.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #312737
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 14 2012,04:15)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 13 2012,10:22)

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2012,23:39)
    Hi Mike,

    Do you not believe that the son's of God mentioned
    in Genesis 6:2 were “Angels” and “Not Human”?


    Ed,

    Didn't I already answer that question?   ???

    YES, they were ANGELS.

    Is it possible for a spirit being to impregnate a human woman without first manifesting a flesh body?  (Think: God and Mary)

    Is there any scriptural indication that these spirit beings manifested flesh bodies before impregnating human women?


    Hi Mike,

    “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
    and they took them wives of all which they chose.” (Genesis 6:2)

    I believe this verse (in and of itself) is a strong indicator of a non-
    celibate relationship they had taking the daughters of Adam to wife.     …thus indicating them having physical bodies.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    ed

    yes it was materialized angels ,for the purpose of corruption ,

    but would this be the same for Mary and Jesus ??? was this corruption as well ???

    #312738
    terraricca
    Participant

    edj

    God holy spirit does not materialize to my knowledge

    #312750
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To All………….Why do you try to make something very simple and clear into some kind of mystery religion.

    Kerwin yes her soul left when she stopped breathing, her breathe of life was gone.  she no longer was a “LIVING SOU”  the word soul implies  a BODY with the Breath of Life working in it. She was a dead soul. and her soul went to the grave and corrupted in it. Every bit of her DNA stopped function in her body when there breath of life went out from her.  She simple no longer existed as a live being.  Her Spirit returned to him who gave it in the first place, God, and that was it , no more life anymore, unless God recreates or regenerates a Body with the exact DNA of Hers and puts the Spirit back into it, so she can be a living Soul again.  Unless that happens she or he is eternally dead. God must not leave us in the Grave for us to live again a resurrection of our bodies is absolutely Crucial for us to live again. IMO

    The whole teaching of still alive after a person is dead is a false teaching and it causes people to believe in something that simply is not true , there is no hope after death unless God regenerates us a Body and add our Exact DNA back into it with the Spirit of Life keeping it alive.

    Stop an ask yourselves, why is it so important to me to believe i still am alive after i die, where does this thought come from, it is not from scripture that is for sure. It comes from this idea of a WILL that is FREE from GOD, a perspective of not accepting your demise and your “total” reliance in God the FATHER for a resurrection from the state of the dead back to life. People fool themselves with these kinds of thoughts.

    Some say when they die there going home to the Lord, but no one is jumping off clefts to get there, and they all do every thing they can to keep there bodies alive that is for sure.

    Every scripture showing a resurrection  shows a resurrection with a BODY and those bodes are not Spirits, as Jesus plainly said and demonstrated to all. 

    The word DEAD does not mean still alive in any context, the only thing that exist is spirit and it returns where it came from in the first place. You no longer exist in any form. There is no hope in the grave where we all will go unless we remain to the coming of the Lord.

    When Jesus said he was DEAD he really meant it and he would have still been dead if God did not raise up his body and put the spirit back into it.

    And What i “QUOTED” was not my words it is written in your bibles also. But becasue of “doctrinal biases”, people chose to disregard scriptures that show thing different then they want believe.   IMO

    peace and love to you all……………………………………………………..gene

    #312752
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 13 2012,21:15)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 13 2012,10:22)

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2012,23:39)
    Hi Mike,

    Do you not believe that the son's of God mentioned
    in Genesis 6:2 were “Angels” and “Not Human”?


    Ed,

    Didn't I already answer that question?   ???

    YES, they were ANGELS.

    Is it possible for a spirit being to impregnate a human woman without first manifesting a flesh body?  (Think: God and Mary)

    Is there any scriptural indication that these spirit beings manifested flesh bodies before impregnating human women?


    Hi Mike,

    “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
    and they took them wives of all which they chose.” (Genesis 6:2)

    I believe this verse (in and of itself) is a strong indicator of a non-
    celibate relationship they had taking the daughters of Adam to wife.     …thus indicating them having physical bodies.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    EdJ…Angels do have Physical Bodies Just as we do except those bodies can live forever. That should be obvious or the could not have copulated and had childern with human women. There bodies do contain DNA Just as OUR DO. Angels are not SPIRIT BEINGS no more then we are. Scripture say we are a little lower than the angels for the tasting of death That is the only difference between us and Angels. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours………………………………………gene

    #312753
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 13 2012,10:24)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 12 2012,10:26)
    Scripture says concerning Jesus that God would not let his soul see corruption in the grave

    Psa 16: 10….> For you will not leave my soul “in hell” (the grave) ; neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption.


    Your scripture doesn't actually say what you claim it says, Gene.


    Mike………. first it is not “MY” scripture, so you say the quoted scripture does not say what i say it does , so then show what it should say then, instead of making a statement with no explanation.

    peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene

    #312754
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 13 2012,04:15)
    …thus indicating them having physical bodies.


    I don't claim that they didn't have physical bodies, Ed. I claim that spirit beings don't have flesh bodies.

    #312755
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 13 2012,09:37)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 13 2012,10:24)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 12 2012,10:26)
    Scripture says concerning Jesus that God would not let his soul see corruption in the grave

    Psa 16: 10….> For you will not leave my soul “in hell” (the grave) ; neither will you suffer your Holy One to see corruption.


    Your scripture doesn't actually say what you claim it says, Gene.


    Mike………. first it is not “MY” scripture, so you say the   quoted scripture does not say what i say it does , so then show what it should say then, instead of making a statement with no explanation.

    peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene


    Gene,

    I thought it was self-explanatory.  The words of your verse speak of TWO things, hence the semi-colon and the word “neither”.

    1.  You will not leave my soul in Sheol.

    2.  NEITHER will you let your Holy One see decay.

    The soul is not the object of the verb phrase “see decay”.  Souls are never said to decay, as far as I know.  That part of the verse refers to the BODY/FLESH of Jesus.  Peter explains as much in Acts 2:

    27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
       you will not let your holy one see decay.

    30 But [David] was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.

    31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

    See Gene?  The SOUL of Jesus is what would not be abandoned in Hades (Sheol).  And the BODY of Jesus is what would not see decay.

    (Btw Gene, if I ever say “your scripture”, I mean “the scripture you posted”. I also thought this would have been self-explanatory.)

    #312756
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 13 2012,09:08)
    Kerwin yes her soul left when she stopped breathing………..


    Her soul left WHAT?  Obviously, her dead body didn't get up and walk away, right?  So what exactly did her soul leave?

    Answer:  Her soul left her body.

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 13 2012,09:08)
    The whole teaching of still alive after a person is dead is a false teaching……


    I agree that the souls of the dead are not “living it up” in Sheol, Gene.  But that is where those souls are “resting/sleeping with their fathers” – as it is commonly phrased in scripture.  The spirit goes back to God who gave it.  The body decays.  And the soul goes to Sheol, where it is conscious of nothing at all until the resurrection.  IMO.

    #312777
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike …..A soul is the whole being not just part of it.  

    Think about this if all spirits is types and kind of intellects of life giving cognat thought to our minds, and each of us can have the exact kind or type of that spirit working in each of us similtaniousely all at the same time. What is the only thIn that could make us different from one another. Gods spirit can exist in all of us at the same time. That spirit is no different in one person or anorther person.

    Now follow me here, I and you with that same spirit presences in both of us are yet different beings. That is the same with all spirit it can be in all and through all. So what could make us an individual person, it is not spirit of itself that can make us different, then what makes us different from another seeing the other person can have that exact same spirit in him to. So what would be the only thing that could make that difference, is it not a BODY with its own unique DND. That draws into it different kind and types of spirits. Spirit is spirit it is not a container of any kind it has no body and is not a body of its own.

    Mike angels have bodies also just as we do, only those bodies can live forever, because they are spiritually sustained.  There would no reason for a resurrection of a body if that were not the  case.

    Think about it, like I told you before it not understanding what spirit is ,that the problem where all these speculation about lif after we are dead come from. Spirit never dies it always exists it is what life ” IS”….IMO

    Peace and love to you and you……………………………………gene

    #312783
    terraricca
    Participant

    g

    Quote
    …..A soul is the whole being not just part of it.

    witch part can men kill and wich part it is only God that can destroy ????

    #312807
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    Quote
    the whole teaching of still alive after a person is dead is a false teaching and it causes people to believe in something that simply is not true , there is no hope after death unless God regenerates us a Body and add our Exact DNA back into it with the Spirit of Life keeping it alive.

    Jehovah is not the God of the dead and yet he was at the time of Jesus the God of Abraham and Isaac he was their God even though their bodies had corrupted in “qeburah”. Since Abraham’s body decayed he is was living naked according to Jesus’ teachings. Jesus also teaches he was living on the comforting side of Sheol/Hades.

    The soul is but a shade of a person and not the whole person; but it is never the less still alive.

    #312833
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 14 2012,11:48)
    g

    Quote
    …..A soul is the whole being not just part of it.  

    witch part can men kill and wich part it is only God that can destroy ????


    Terricca………..Man can Kill all of you , but ONLY God can restore all of you again. God alone can regenerate you by resurrecting you and He is the only one that can do that and must in order for us to become alive again after we die. You are falsely believing your Souls are still alive after you die Pierre. Our “only” hope for life again is in GOD 'alone' and NO OTHER.

    The whole concept of still alive after we die is a false Pagan teaching and has not scriptural support. There is no scripture that say we are still alive after we die ,otherwise we would not be “DEAD” would we, if there is a scripture please Post it.

    peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene

    #312835
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all……….Lets deal with resurrections in scriptures Please show a single resurrection that did not include a body.  I can show you all of them that did have bodies when they were resurected , and even where God plainly shows and describes how he is going to resurrect People. Here is just one place it shows how.

    Eze 37:4-6…….> Again he said unto me Prophesy upon these “bones” and say unto them, O you “dry bones” hear the word of the LORD (5) Thus says the Lord GOD unto these “bones”; Behold, I will cause “Breath” to enter you and you shall live. (6) And I will lay “sinews” upon you and bring up “flesh” upon you, and cover you with “skin”, and put “breath” in you and you shall live; and Shall “KNOW” that “I” am the LORD.

    Now please tell me how you people totally ignore these scriptures a go on as if they do not exist in you bibles. It is Simply amazing to the extent MYSTERY RELIGION” has “infected the Mind of People Here

    It appears to me some people here had rather deal in falsehood and “speculations” then in reality of Solid and “SPECIFIC” written scriptures. IMO

    peace and Love to you all………………………………..gene

    #312902
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 14 2012,08:27)
    Terricca………..Man can Kill all of you………..


    Matthew 10:28  King James Version
    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Gene, your claim DIRECTLY contradicts the words of Jesus.  Doesn't that bother you at all?

    #312913
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 14 2012,13:08)
    Mike …..A soul is the whole being not just part of it.  

    …………………..gene


    gene. We have come to expect from you a disagreement on nearly every major part of scripture.

    Your view suggests that the souls under the altar around the time of the fifth seal were complete persons with bodies. Yet they are told to rest a little longer. So are there a whole lot of beds under the altar?

    #312914
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 11 2012,18:41)
    Hi Mike,

    1) The Angels took them to wife.                            Mary was not God's wife. He obviously planted the seed of Jesus
        This implies Angelic intercourse.                         (or just the “Y” chromosome needed to be male) by other means.

    2) No clue. Wait a minute, Jesus resurrected body may be identical to theirs?     …just a thought?

    3) This seems to be the case regardless of point #2.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Edj. The Book of Enoch which has the complete record for what happened says that these angels also sinned against animals in the same way. Real intercourse or genetic engineering? Or perhaps just a fiction.

    That book says that they sinned against birds, animals and reptiles. Perhaps that's what dinosaurs were. As their offspring are known to be giants and the purpose of the flood was to destroy these creatures of which are now fossilized by some major catastrophe.

    #312915
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike …..you again have disreguarded the words of The Lord God. Thinking Jesus would say something different then GOD did. If what you believe Jesus meant doesn't agree with the LORD our and his God words , then who are you going to believe. It sounds like you would believe your rendition of what Jesus meant, then his and our Lord GOD.  If the scriptures I   “quoted” are in error or mean different as you must assume they do please show us all in what way are they.

    Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………..gene

    #312916
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 15 2012,14:21)
    Matthew 10:28  King James Version
    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Gene, your claim DIRECTLY contradicts the words of Jesus.  Doesn't that bother you at all?


    It should bother him. If not, then his conscience is not condemning him for putting his understanding above scriptural truth in which case this would be the result of searing the conscience.

    #312918
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 15 2012,08:27)

    Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 14 2012,11:48)
    g

    Quote
    …..A soul is the whole being not just part of it.  

    witch part can men kill and wich part it is only God that can destroy ????


    Terricca………..Man can Kill all of you , but ONLY God can restore all of you again. God alone can regenerate you by resurrecting you and He is the only one that can do that and must in order for us to become alive again after we die. You are falsely believing your Souls are still alive after you die Pierre. Our “only” hope for life again is in GOD 'alone' and NO OTHER.

    The whole concept of still alive after we die is a false Pagan teaching and has not scriptural support. There is no scripture that say we are still alive after we die ,otherwise we would not be “DEAD” would we,  if there is a scripture please Post it.

    peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene


    gene

    you are hopeless ,you disregard scriptures in a way that they are only an outline to your desires.

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