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May 4, 2015 at 1:05 am#796271
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Andrew…..scripture does not say the temple is in you as Nick wrongly stated it says this , your BODY is the TEMPLE of the LIVING GOD. God spoke in first person through jesus’ mouth and said, “destroy this TEMPLE, (which was Jesus’ BODY, and in three days I (GOD) shall raise “IT” (his body) UP.
God considers our bodies he can live in as temples .
peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
May 4, 2015 at 6:19 pm#796358
Proclaimer
Participant
Actually I didn’t realise it was that long ago. I some how stumbled on the post and had not read it before.
It is a pity that your earlier discovery has born no fruit though.
Jesus built his Church on his true identity. When Peter declared that he was the son of God and the messiah, Jesus said that he would build his Church on that rock and that the Gates of Hell would not overcome it.
This is why there are so many doctrines as to who Jesus is. Each Church or denomination have their own foundation which is usually some version of the Trinity, but the true foundation is that rock that he built HIS church upon.
If we build on any other foundation, then our works sit on a foundation that is not eternal. I am not questioning anyone’s salvation here as that is a God matter, but the works we do for God will only bear eternal reward if they reside on a solid foundation. Satan is trying to bankrupt all men and getting them to do works that are not based on the truth. e.g., most denominations require much of your time and money, but what do they really offer you in return. Further, there is only one Church. Jesus said: “Upon this rock I will build my Church”.
May 4, 2015 at 11:56 pm#796364
Hazz
Participant
Thanks for your response t8, though I must say I am disappointed. In a website, with pages supposedly discussing the trinity, they only really focus on the identity of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is hardly mentioned. Then when asked, all I get is an analogy on the rays of the sun. Though a good analogy, and I do appreciate you responding, it does remind me of the writings of the early trinitarian Sabellius.
I myself am someone who has been brought up with a Trinitarian mindset, and am currently in the process of genuinely looking into its claims, and asking God to show me truth from his word.
May 5, 2015 at 10:38 am#796405
AndrewAD
Participant
T8 ,how do you say I have borne no fruit? how do you know? and as I said I thank you for opening my mind to think for myself.I was indoctrinated by trinity and other such religious dogma which now i am not. I am your fruit T8- so rejoice for great is your reward in heaven! but maybe there is no reward in heaven?
And don’t worry I don’t give my money to any church any longer,denominational or non! Whenever I give a few bucks to a needy person with a cardboard sign,I’m giving it to God or maybe it’s just to Jesus Christ.
May 7, 2015 at 11:29 am#796582
Proclaimer
Participant
@Hazz it is written that the Lord is the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
Isaiah 61:1
The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,
Still learning what this means myself. I pray God will show us the truth.

May 7, 2015 at 11:36 am#796583
Proclaimer
Participant
T8 ,how do you say I have borne no fruit? how do you know?
Apologies, but it seemed from your posts that you had not arrived at a conclusion and was still open to the Trinity. It looked like you were heading back to square one from what you wrote or that you were double minded.
If God were a Trinity, then you could replace the word God in scripture for Trinity. But you cannot. This alone should rule out the Trinity as a contender IMO.
But if you are open to the truth and not willing to accept something just because most people do, then that is good. You have made progress if you are able to see for yourself, test all things, and accept truth no matter what the price.
May 9, 2015 at 11:10 am#796868
AndrewAD
Participant
Yes T8 I’ve come home to trinity in my own understanding but i don’t hold it as any strict dogma as i used to do. I know longer damn people over it. Neither do I worship that letter that killeth, the bible anymore.I understand why it can be understood in many ways.Do you in your religious spirit damn me? Maybe for you all my religious fruits are rotten but for me and perhaps some other heretics the fruits are sweeter.
May 9, 2015 at 11:30 am#796874
NickHassan
Participant
Hi Andrew,
I believe God has touched you with His light but at the moment it is too frightening for you to be bathed in it.
The mind is transformed slowly.
May 9, 2015 at 11:56 am#796880
AndrewAD
Participant
thanks Nick!! and God bless you my brother! and my brother T8 too!-sorry if I’m too religious.
May 9, 2015 at 2:53 pm#796903
NickHassan
Participant
hi Hazz,
Welcome.

Put aside what trinitarians have taught you about the Spirit. They try to divide God from His Spirit.
They originally decided God was a binity and then thought the Spirit should be added in.

You have a spirit. Without your spirit you would be dead. james 2.26

God has a Spirit too.
God is never separate from His Spirit.

God creates by His Spirit ps 104.30
God IS in heaven and so Jesus told us to pray to him there. Mt 6.9
But in His creation God operates by His Spirit

Earth cannot contain God is 66.1 but God can and does manifest in creation as His Spirit.Acts 5 1f

Jn 14-16 shows detail of the work of the Spirit in men.
To blaspheme Jesus is forgiveable but to do so against the Spirit of God is not.

Men without the help of the Spirit cannot grasp the ways of God.

May 12, 2015 at 1:47 pm#797184
Proclaimer
Participant
Okay AndrewAD. You went back to the Trinity. Of course I do not damn you. You are not my servant. As to your salvation that is not mine to judge.
Let’s talk about the Trinity.
Why is it when you replace the word “God” in scripture with “Trinity” it breaks it. And when you replace it with “Father” it keeps the true meaning?
Before anyone asks, I am not including other references to ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’ that are clearly not the one true God., such as the “god of this age”, “ye are gods”, etc.
Just talking of scripture that is clearly talking about God, such as John 3:16:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
If the biblical God was truly a Trinity, and if God is to be understood as a Trinity, then why does it break this verse and all relevant others? See for yourself:
For The Trinity so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
And why is the word HE used, surely it should be THEY. But we never see that.
Keep it simple AndrewAD. Why is that?

May 15, 2015 at 9:34 am#797431
Proclaimer
Participant
@Hazz
Thanks for your response t8, though I must say I am disappointed. In a website, with pages supposedly discussing the trinity, they only really focus on the identity of Jesus. The Holy Spirit is hardly mentioned. Then when asked, all I get is an analogy on the rays of the sun. Though a good analogy, and I do appreciate you responding, it does remind me of the writings of the early trinitarian Sabellius.
I myself am someone who has been brought up with a Trinitarian mindset, and am currently in the process of genuinely looking into its claims, and asking God to show me truth from his word.
I read this verse the other day and thought it might be relevant in your search.
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
So the Holy Spirit came to Mary and notice that it doesn’t say ‘power of the Holy Spirit’, rather ‘power of the Most High’. Is that an indirect reference that the Holy Spirit is not another person, but part of God himself?
Further we read this regarding the Holy Spirit and Jesus.
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Surely this is showing us that the Holy Spirit is greater than the Son of Man. If the Holy Spirit was God’s essence or what God is, then it would make sense. But if the Holy Spirit was a third person below the Son of God, the third member, then it would seem contradictory.
For me, I differentiate God and the Holy Spirit this way.
- Who is God? He is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
- Where is God? He is in Heaven.
- What is God? He is spirit.
- Where is the Spirit? His spirit is in all redeemed creation
May 15, 2015 at 10:32 am#797447
Proclaimer
Participant
Though a good analogy, and I do appreciate you responding, it does remind me of the writings of the early trinitarian Sabellius.
Sabellius’ opposition to the emerging idea of the Trinity led to his excommunication as a heretic by Pope Callixtus I (Callistus) in AD 220.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellius
May 15, 2015 at 11:41 am#797450
kerwin
Participant
T8,
Sabellius was a modalist and that teaching is broken in many of the same places as Trinitarianism. Modalist find the concept of three persons in one individual as absurd and so rejected that broken tenet but that still blaspheme the name of God by claiming Jesus is the one true God.
May 15, 2015 at 1:19 pm#797458
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
Scripture is designed so that only those reborn from above can understand it
They alone can see the kingdom.Jn3
The rest argue.
May 15, 2015 at 2:13 pm#797463
AndrewAD
Participant
Dear t8, I do understand what you are saying but the letter killeth. Even as Nick says things must be understood spiritually and not with that carnal mind.
While you claim to keep it simple you at the same time make it even more complex.If I say Jesus Christ is the unique Son,am I not saying he’s God since he’s not quite the same as us? You may say based on various scripture that God hath not been seen,but just who did Isaiah see in his blessed theophany in Isaiah 6? St John’s gospel claims in 12:41 he saw the glory of Jesus Christ-the revealed God! Why did Jesus not say”this is life eternal that they may know thee the only true God” and leave it at that? Why must we know him to know God? You believe in Father,Son, and Holy Ghost? I know you do but not in the word trinity.You mince about words for what? for disunity? to see yourself as smarter,better,or a”real” Christian above the heretics?
If one believes in Jesus Christ,they believe not in him but the one who sent him? what form of religious spirit is that?
May 15, 2015 at 2:17 pm#797464
AndrewAD
Participant
Hey Nick- the rest argue? kind of like we all do here? -of course not-we are better than that! 🙂
May 15, 2015 at 2:23 pm#797465
NickHassan
Participant
Hi Andrew,
There is real truth to be found by genuine searchers.
It is our happy role to attempt to point folk to where the treasures are found.

May 15, 2015 at 2:26 pm#797466
NickHassan
Participant
Hi Andrew,
The NIV falsely adds the word JESUS in Jn 12.
It is not in the manuscripts.

Read Is 6 and you will see it is the Father being spoken of.
If you are unsure compare it with rev 4
May 15, 2015 at 2:28 pm#797467
AndrewAD
Participant
Kerwin, perhaps it’s you who blaspheme and that is why you are so stuck in the quagmire of sin and shame. Let “the Truth”set you free!
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