John 18:5-6

Because YHWH calls himself “I am”  in Exodus 3:13-14, did Jesus claim to be Yahweh when he said “I am” in John 18:5-6?

5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.)
6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

Exodus 3:13-14 says the following:
13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, `The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, `What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: `I AM has sent me to you.'”

But what does Yahweh say in Psalm 2:7
“I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

and in Acts 13:33
33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
” ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father.

Also look at Hebrews 1:5 & Hebrews 5:5

So Yahweh is the Father of Jesus. Jesus is the Son of Yahweh. Jesus is not Yahweh and therefore he is not God. Rather Jesus is the son of Yahweh, otherwise known as the Son of God.

Back in John 18 we can see that the Jews came to arrest Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. They first took him to Annas (vs.13). Then they took him to Caiaphas (vs.24) and eventually to Pilate (vss.28,29). A parallel account is found in Matthew 26:57-68. Notice, in particular, verse 59. The same men that had fallen backward to the ground were in attendance when the council sought false witnesses against Jesus to put him to death. Verse 60 says they couldn’t find any. Eventually two came forward. Interestingly, they didn’t bear false witness about what Jesus said in Jn.8:58, but about his reference to destroying the temple and building it again in three days, then Jesus was condemned for claiming to be the Son of God in Matthew 26:63-65.

The point about Matthew 26 is, why would false witnesses be sought if they had true witnesses in attendance? The arresting officers heard Jesus say “Ego eimi.” They could have stoned him right there in the garden for blasphemy, but they didn’t. They could have reported the supposed blasphemy to the council, but they didn’t. Why not? Because it wasn’t blasphemy, nor was it a stoneable offense. He was merely identifying himself as Jesus of Nazareth.

It is believed by some that the account recorded in John 8:48-59 further supports the position that Jesus is the “I AM.” Why else would the Jews try to stone him (v59)? He obviously blasphemed in the eyes of the Jews.

“I am” is a translation from Greek words “ego eimi”. Is the mere utterance of “ego eimi” a blasphemy? Does the use of “ego eimi” automatically identify the speaker as Yahweh, the I AM? In Luke 1:19, the angel Gabriel said, “Ego eimi Gabriel.” In John 9:9, the blind man whose sight was restored by Jesus said, “Ego eimi.” In Acts 10:21, Peter said, “Behold, ego eimi (I am) he whom ye seek.” Obviously, the mere use of “ego eimi” does not equate one to the “I Am” of Exodus 3:14.

Jesus used the phrase “ego eimi” at least twenty times and yet, in only one instance did the Jews seek to stone him (John 8:58). Jesus said, “I am the bread of life” to a large crowd, in John.6:35-48, yet no one opposed him. In verse 41, the Jews murmured because he said, “I am (ego eimi) the bread which came down from heaven.” But in verse 42, the Jews questioned only the phrase, “I came down from heaven” and ignored “ego eimi.” The same is true of verses 51 & 52

In John 8:12, 18, 24, & 28, Jesus used “ego eimi” with Pharisees present (vs.13) and yet, no stoning. He, again, used it four times in John 10:7, 9, 11, & 14 with no stoning. Jesus said to his disciples, “that ye may believe that I am (ego eimi)” in John 13:19 without them batting an eye.

This brings us back to Jn.8:58. Why did the Jews seek to stone him on that occasion? The context of Jn.8 shows that Jesus;

  • accused the Jews of “judging after the flesh” (vs.15).
  • said they would die in their sins (vss.21,24).
  • implied they were in bondage (vss.32,33).
  • said they were servants of sin (vs.34).
  • said they were out to kill him (vss. 37,40).
  • implied they were spiritually deaf (vs.43,47).
  • said their father was the devil (vs.44).
  • said they were not of Elohim (vs.47).
  • accused them of dishonoring him (vs.49).
  • accused them of not knowing Yahweh (vs.55).
  • accused them of lying (vs.55).
 

Aside from that, the Jews misunderstood Jesus words leading them to believe;

  • that he accused them of being born of fornication (vs.41).
  • Jesus had a devil (vs.52).
  • that he was exalting himself above Abraham (vs.53).
  • that he saw Abraham (vs.56).

Jesus words in verse 58 were the culmination of an encounter that was so offensive to the Jews, that they couldn’t restrain themselves. They simply couldn’t take it anymore so they sought to stone him, not because of two simple words, “ego eimi,” but because he was making himself out to be greater than their beloved father Abraham.

We need to also remember that “I AM” in the Old Testament is a different set of words from different languages to the New Testament instances. It would be like saying that “I am” in English is equating one with God for it is the word used by God in Hebrew. That is simply not true. Many say “I am” in the New Testament just as they say those words today without meaning they are God.

If you were watching Mickey Mouse on the Disney channel and Goofy said to Mickey, “are you Mickey Mouse”, am I to assume then that Mickey Mouse is claiming to be God if he answers, “I am”? Of course not. He is simply identifying himself as Mickey Mouse.

Back to the Old Testament we see that it was YHWH that said “I am that I am”. He was saying that he was the ever exisiting one. So his name was actually YHWH. To equate the common words “I am” as a claim to be YHWH is indeed a big stretch of the imagination.

Here is an example of the words “I am” in everday language/

Q: Are you Peter?
A: I am.

Conclusion: If I am Peter then am I blaspheming when I say I am. I am not saying I am YHWH. I am saying that I am Peter. I am simply answering the question asked of me. This behaviour is very normal and common as you can see. In fact this paragraph alone contains 7 instances of the term ‘I am’. Yet who in their right mind would think that I was claiming to be God?
To say that Jesus claimed to be God because he said “I am” can only be at most, an unsupported and extemely weak opinion. There are no scriptures in the bible that uses this occurrence as a teaching to promote a Trinity Or to prove that Yashua is Yahweh. To hinge the Trinity Doctrine on an assumption is indeed a weak argument to make and wouldn’t get very far in a court of law. To say that we are condemned if we do not believe in a certain vague interpretation is totally unacceptable to all who earnestly seek truth. Remember that we are judged by the measures we judge others, so we shouldn’t be so unreasonable.

If you read the whole Bible without bias, would you come to the conclusion that Jn.8:58 is saying that Jesus is God and part of a Trinity. I really do not think so, therefore it is unfair to condemn someone who doesn’t hold to your opinion if you indeed believe in the Trinity Doctrine and I have to note that there are hundreds of scriptures that show us clearly that the Father is God and Jesus is the Son of God. These verses are clear teachings. The Trinity Doctrine is based on weak assumptions which come from the mind of Man. I prefer to believe the scriptures, rather than assumptions and imaginations of men.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

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  • #791576
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Davidl,

    Jesus said he was going to my God and to your God.Jn20

    Was he going to a trinity??

    #791580
    DavidL
    Participant

    The head of the woman is man,  just as God is head of Christ – THEY ARE ONE.

    But, if your are not born of the Spirit…how can you understand…?

    #791582
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    HI DavidL

    You have a big problem here, you said:

    Jesus Himself existed as God before Abraham was born… “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” (v 56)

    If you say that this means Jesus existed before Abraham and that makes him God, what to say about the fact that Jesus is saying Abraham saw the day of Jesus? It doesn’t say Abraham saw Jesus in a vision long ago it says Abraham rejoiced seeing the day of Jesus so does that mean Abraham is God or immortal in that he rejoiced after the day of Jesus?

    #791584
    DavidL
    Participant

    Abraham saw in the Spirit the coming of the Messiah…how did Jesus know this..?

    #791585
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    DavidL

    In that argument with the Jews the context was about Status not about birth order if you read the context you will understand, this is why God says things like:

    Jeremiah 31:9
    With weeping they shall come, and with pleas for mercy I will lead them back, I will make them walk by brooks of water, in a straight path in which they shall not stumble, for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

    Question DavidL: How can Ephraim be God’s firstborn son when you claim that Jesus is his only son or at least his first born? Why would God say such a thing? Ephraim is the Firstborn of God is that true?

    #791586
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    DavidL

    The more you look into it you will start to understand look even deeper:

    Genesis 22:1-3English Standard Version (ESV)

    The Sacrifice of Isaac

    22 After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” 2 He said, “Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.” 3 So Abraham rose early in the morning, saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him, and his son Isaac. And he cut the wood for the burnt offering and arose and went to the place of which God had told him.

    Now you are aware that Isaac was not literally Abraham’s only son, right? Ishmael was born before him, but you see the one who came after Ishmael was preferred before Ishmael before Ishmael, Isaac was. So Ishmael could say before Isaac, I am

    The context is about Status, the entire context of God calling anyone son is one of Status not progeny

    #791588
    NickHassan
    Participant

    hi davidl,

    If it is not written how can we be expected to understand?

    #791607
    DavidL
    Participant

    In that argument with the Jews the context was about Status not about birth order

     

    The issue is – who is Jesus…?!?

    Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad. So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham? Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.”

     

    Abraham saw in the Spirit the coming of the Messiah…BUT HOW DID JESUS KNOW THIS..???

     

    Before Abraham was even born – I AM..!!!

     

    He was with God – He WAS God.!!!

     

    (Scripture confirming Scripture)

    #791614
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Are you still at the level of the pharisees who did not recognise the words of the Spirit spoken through the man?

    And yet you claim to be reborn of the Spirit.

    Something is amiss.

    #791615
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl ,

    You quote scripture saying the Word was God and

    yet you teach he IS GOD.

    Ummmm.

    #791617
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    The Word was God.

    But you say Jesus is God??

    #791620
    Ed J
    Participant

    Then Moses said to God, “Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you.’ Now they may say to me, ‘What is His name?’ What shall I say to them?” God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations…”

    David L,

    See in the verse you quoted where it says “The LORD”?
    in the Hebrew manuscripts it says יהוה and it’s translated
    into English as JEHOVAH – so God did tell Moses his name.

    ___________
    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    ”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GOD

    #791624
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi ED,

    Jehovah is manufactured by adding letters to YHVH.

     

    #791625
    Ed J
    Participant

    יד וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים אֶל-מֹשֶׁה, אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה; וַיֹּאמֶר, כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, אֶהְיֶה, שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם. 14 And God said unto Moses: ‘I AM THAT I AM’; and He said: ‘Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.’
    טו וַיֹּאמֶר עוֹד אֱלֹהִים אֶל-מֹשֶׁה, כֹּה-תֹאמַר אֶל-בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵי אֲבֹתֵיכֶם אֱלֹהֵי אַבְרָהָם אֱלֹהֵי יִצְחָק וֵאלֹהֵי יַעֲקֹב, שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם; זֶה-שְּׁמִי לְעֹלָם, וְזֶה זִכְרִי לְדֹר דֹּר. 16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them: JEHOVAH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, hath appeared unto me, saying: I have surely remembered you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt.

    #791627
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi ED,

    Men find the addition of letters makes the usage easier.

    But God is Who is.

    The living God.

    #791628
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi ED,

    Jehovah is manufactured by adding letters to YHVH.

    Yes Nick, I know.

    We need vowels to be able to pronounce YHVH (God’s sacred name).
    …and the name “Jesus” is a translation of a translation, from Hebrew to
    Greek to English. When we use these names we know exactly who we mean.

    ___________
    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    ”Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.” – JEHOVAH GOD

    #791645
    kerwin
    Participant

    David L,

    The issue is – who is Jesus…?!?

    Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad. So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham? Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.”

    Abraham saw in the Spirit the coming of the Messiah…BUT HOW DID JESUS KNOW THIS..???

    Before Abraham was even born – I AM..!!!

    He was with God – He WAS God.!!!

    You are using poor grammar as well as terrible reasoning.

    Trinititarins claim the verse means:

    “I am born before Jesus was born”

    and

    “Before Abraham is born; I am God”

    Try that nonsense in an English paper and you will be failed as it is obvious nonsense. Use either one or the other and if the translators used punctuation correctly then they favor the first meaning that has the Christ being born and not always existing as they chose to use a comma instead of a semi-colon.

    #791651
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,

    “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad. So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham? Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM.””

    Yes Abraham is alive and was awake!

    #791662
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick…..WHAT? ABRAHAM SAW JESUS’ DAY BY REVELATION OF GOD TO HIM, HE WAS NOT ALIVE AT THE TIME JESUS WALKED THIS EARTH. LOOK AT THE WORDING (REJOICED) IS A PAST TENS EXPRESSION, NOT A PRESENT TENSE EXPRESSION.

    Nick you amaze mebrother ofyour lack of understanding at times.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene

    #791664
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GB,

    You cannot be wrong so walk on alone.

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