John 18:5-6

Because YHWH calls himself “I am”  in Exodus 3:13-14, did Jesus claim to be Yahweh when he said “I am” in John 18:5-6?

5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.)
6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

Exodus 3:13-14 says the following:
13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, `The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, `What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: `I AM has sent me to you.'”

But what does Yahweh say in Psalm 2:7
“I will declare the decree: Yahweh hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

and in Acts 13:33
33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
” ‘You are my Son; today I have become your Father.

Also look at Hebrews 1:5 & Hebrews 5:5

So Yahweh is the Father of Jesus. Jesus is the Son of Yahweh. Jesus is not Yahweh and therefore he is not God. Rather Jesus is the son of Yahweh, otherwise known as the Son of God.

Back in John 18 we can see that the Jews came to arrest Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. They first took him to Annas (vs.13). Then they took him to Caiaphas (vs.24) and eventually to Pilate (vss.28,29). A parallel account is found in Matthew 26:57-68. Notice, in particular, verse 59. The same men that had fallen backward to the ground were in attendance when the council sought false witnesses against Jesus to put him to death. Verse 60 says they couldn’t find any. Eventually two came forward. Interestingly, they didn’t bear false witness about what Jesus said in Jn.8:58, but about his reference to destroying the temple and building it again in three days, then Jesus was condemned for claiming to be the Son of God in Matthew 26:63-65.

The point about Matthew 26 is, why would false witnesses be sought if they had true witnesses in attendance? The arresting officers heard Jesus say “Ego eimi.” They could have stoned him right there in the garden for blasphemy, but they didn’t. They could have reported the supposed blasphemy to the council, but they didn’t. Why not? Because it wasn’t blasphemy, nor was it a stoneable offense. He was merely identifying himself as Jesus of Nazareth.

It is believed by some that the account recorded in John 8:48-59 further supports the position that Jesus is the “I AM.” Why else would the Jews try to stone him (v59)? He obviously blasphemed in the eyes of the Jews.

“I am” is a translation from Greek words “ego eimi”. Is the mere utterance of “ego eimi” a blasphemy? Does the use of “ego eimi” automatically identify the speaker as Yahweh, the I AM? In Luke 1:19, the angel Gabriel said, “Ego eimi Gabriel.” In John 9:9, the blind man whose sight was restored by Jesus said, “Ego eimi.” In Acts 10:21, Peter said, “Behold, ego eimi (I am) he whom ye seek.” Obviously, the mere use of “ego eimi” does not equate one to the “I Am” of Exodus 3:14.

Jesus used the phrase “ego eimi” at least twenty times and yet, in only one instance did the Jews seek to stone him (John 8:58). Jesus said, “I am the bread of life” to a large crowd, in John.6:35-48, yet no one opposed him. In verse 41, the Jews murmured because he said, “I am (ego eimi) the bread which came down from heaven.” But in verse 42, the Jews questioned only the phrase, “I came down from heaven” and ignored “ego eimi.” The same is true of verses 51 & 52

In John 8:12, 18, 24, & 28, Jesus used “ego eimi” with Pharisees present (vs.13) and yet, no stoning. He, again, used it four times in John 10:7, 9, 11, & 14 with no stoning. Jesus said to his disciples, “that ye may believe that I am (ego eimi)” in John 13:19 without them batting an eye.

This brings us back to Jn.8:58. Why did the Jews seek to stone him on that occasion? The context of Jn.8 shows that Jesus;

  • accused the Jews of “judging after the flesh” (vs.15).
  • said they would die in their sins (vss.21,24).
  • implied they were in bondage (vss.32,33).
  • said they were servants of sin (vs.34).
  • said they were out to kill him (vss. 37,40).
  • implied they were spiritually deaf (vs.43,47).
  • said their father was the devil (vs.44).
  • said they were not of Elohim (vs.47).
  • accused them of dishonoring him (vs.49).
  • accused them of not knowing Yahweh (vs.55).
  • accused them of lying (vs.55).
 

Aside from that, the Jews misunderstood Jesus words leading them to believe;

  • that he accused them of being born of fornication (vs.41).
  • Jesus had a devil (vs.52).
  • that he was exalting himself above Abraham (vs.53).
  • that he saw Abraham (vs.56).

Jesus words in verse 58 were the culmination of an encounter that was so offensive to the Jews, that they couldn’t restrain themselves. They simply couldn’t take it anymore so they sought to stone him, not because of two simple words, “ego eimi,” but because he was making himself out to be greater than their beloved father Abraham.

We need to also remember that “I AM” in the Old Testament is a different set of words from different languages to the New Testament instances. It would be like saying that “I am” in English is equating one with God for it is the word used by God in Hebrew. That is simply not true. Many say “I am” in the New Testament just as they say those words today without meaning they are God.

If you were watching Mickey Mouse on the Disney channel and Goofy said to Mickey, “are you Mickey Mouse”, am I to assume then that Mickey Mouse is claiming to be God if he answers, “I am”? Of course not. He is simply identifying himself as Mickey Mouse.

Back to the Old Testament we see that it was YHWH that said “I am that I am”. He was saying that he was the ever exisiting one. So his name was actually YHWH. To equate the common words “I am” as a claim to be YHWH is indeed a big stretch of the imagination.

Here is an example of the words “I am” in everday language/

Q: Are you Peter?
A: I am.

Conclusion: If I am Peter then am I blaspheming when I say I am. I am not saying I am YHWH. I am saying that I am Peter. I am simply answering the question asked of me. This behaviour is very normal and common as you can see. In fact this paragraph alone contains 7 instances of the term ‘I am’. Yet who in their right mind would think that I was claiming to be God?
To say that Jesus claimed to be God because he said “I am” can only be at most, an unsupported and extemely weak opinion. There are no scriptures in the bible that uses this occurrence as a teaching to promote a Trinity Or to prove that Yashua is Yahweh. To hinge the Trinity Doctrine on an assumption is indeed a weak argument to make and wouldn’t get very far in a court of law. To say that we are condemned if we do not believe in a certain vague interpretation is totally unacceptable to all who earnestly seek truth. Remember that we are judged by the measures we judge others, so we shouldn’t be so unreasonable.

If you read the whole Bible without bias, would you come to the conclusion that Jn.8:58 is saying that Jesus is God and part of a Trinity. I really do not think so, therefore it is unfair to condemn someone who doesn’t hold to your opinion if you indeed believe in the Trinity Doctrine and I have to note that there are hundreds of scriptures that show us clearly that the Father is God and Jesus is the Son of God. These verses are clear teachings. The Trinity Doctrine is based on weak assumptions which come from the mind of Man. I prefer to believe the scriptures, rather than assumptions and imaginations of men.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

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  • #794952
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Of course GODHEAD is a term hijacked by trinity believers as a way of making a triune god.

    In the KJV it has no such use and the two times it is used relates to different things.

    #794955
    DavidL
    Participant

    kerwin..

    The Pharisees are accusing Christ of self-promotion…

    (exalting Himself – by claiming to be God)..

    But does Jesus DENY He is God – EVER…??

    No. of course not..

    but here, facing His sworn adversaries, He deflects their accusation by quoting the Law they hold dear – and yet fail to understand…

    He uses their own ignorance of Scripture to deflate the perilous position of self-promotion that they falsely elevate Him to..

    Christ was not guilty of the pride they accused Him of..!!

    Thus He responds…

    “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”‘? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came – and Scripture cannot be set aside – what about the One whom the Father set apart as His very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse Me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son‘? If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”

    Jesus deflects and defeats their false accusation of self-promotion – while still confirming His own Deity and true position of Oneness with the Father.

    #794961
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    If he never said he was NOT GOD therefore your teachers say he must be.

    Moses never said he was God. Should we say the same about him?

     

    The Word is one with the Father-in the Spirit.

    You can become one with them too as he taught.

    #794962
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    You keep quoting the pharisees as if you are kin with them in ignorance.

    #794986
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    DavidL…….The scripture you quotes is not saying that those people “are” GOD’S, big or little gods, BUT THEY ARE GOD’S POSSESIONS, IT IS WRITTEN IN A POSSIVE SENSE. If those scriptures were saying that thy were true GOD’S, THEN JESUS WOULD HAVE SIMPLY RESPONED BY SAYING HE WAS A GOD ALSO, JUST AS THEY WERE, But he did not respond that way , He meant he was GOD’S POSSESION, JUST AS THEY WERE. IF SCRIPTURE COULD SAY THOSE PHARASEES WERE GOD’S POSSSESION, HE WAS SIMPLY SAYING HE ALSO WAS A SON OF GOD which implies a possession of GOD, the prahassies also said they were son of GOD, SAYING IN ANOTHER PLACE, “WE HAVE ONE FATHER EVEN GOD”. AND TO PROVE GOD WAS WITH HIM HE CITED THE MERICALIOUS WORKS, GOD WAS DOING THROUGH HIM. He was not trying to ever say he was a GOD, that simply is not true. He even said out of his own mouth, FOR THOU ARE THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD, HE WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF NOW WAS HE?

    IDOLATAR’S WILL HAVE NO PART OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD DAVIDL. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. ……………….gene

    #796833
    davidH
    Participant

    I just saw this thread just now,, lol I heard one reason whay they all fell back, well 2 one more seriouis,  the first one was that Jesus had been eating garlic before they showed up and breathed on them “I.. am the garlic knocked them out. lol.

     

    The other one was that the words I AM is so holy on one could say it if they did it was thought they would get hit my lightning.

    #796852
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidh,

    The Spirit spoke through him.

    Jesus told us this would happen.

     

    The light was IN HIM.Jn1.4

    That light came into the world.

    The Word was made flesh.

     

    #797851
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The other one was that the words I AM is so holy on one could say it if they did it was thought they would get hit my lightning.

    If men fell prostrate before angels, how much more the son of the living God?

    Do you have to be God to cause such a reaction? Where is that written?

    #797852
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    If the Son is not God then why does the Scriptures speak of Him as God in so many places…?

    It associates ‘theos’ with Jesus as much as men and angels DavidL, perhaps a bit more.

    While all other gods are either false gods like idols or the one true God, the Father.

    Also, Satan is legitimately called the theos of this age.

    Try to be fair in dealing with scripture. Bias leads to error.

    #797855
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    But does Jesus DENY He is God – EVER…??

    I am sorry I took so long to reply.

    Actually Jesus does deny he is God by comparing to the humans that God called gods because they received the Law and pointing out that he is superior to them as he is the one by whom the Law would be written in the hearts of those that believed.

    #797871
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Was Jesus ever asked the question?

    You seem to be one of the few here who think he is.

     

    He was asked if he was the Son of God and he admitted he is.

    Does that rule him out being God?

    #797873
    Ed J
    Participant

    Wow – and you deny the tri-unity..??

    Unity with God is given to the son, and all the sons of God. The son and the sons are not God, but are one with him in spirit.

    God is that spirit and he has given us his spirit. This is where we are all connected. God in us.

    Turning this oneness into some kind of single being doctrine is based on the vain imaginations of some men and philosophers.

    Oneness has nothing to do with a Triune God. It is about those who are not God, being one with the one true God, and that oneness is had, not in physical terms or soulish terms, but in spirit.

    The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

    Hi T8,

    Excellently explained!
    When we share in that “unity”
    it does not make us God, or does it?

    _______________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #797875
    Ed J
    Participant

    T8…..Very good post, absolutely true, Thats the whole thing in a nut shell. “THAT GOD MAYBE IN “ALL” AND THROUGH “ALL”. ALL THOSE WHO ARE BEING LEAD BY, THE SPIRIT OF GOD “ARE” THE SONS OF THE LIVING GOD, FOR HIS SEED ABIDES “IN” THEM. If only all could understand that. IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours. …………….gene

    Ha ha, it look like we all agree! (1Cor.1:10)

    “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you;
    but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment”

    #797877
    Ed J
    Participant

    three separate entities

    Hi DavidL,

    Is God’s “HolySpirit” a separate entity from God? ???

    #797884
    Ed J
    Participant

    DavidL,

    What ‘bible’ are you quoting from?

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