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1 John 5:20

Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Read this part slowly:

“And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ.”

The true one mentioned in this verse, has to be the Father. Why?

Because it clearly says, We are in HIM who is true, by being in HIS son.

Who is the son mentioned here? It is Jesus Christ.

Who is the one who is true that has a son? Well that has to be the Father because Jesus never had a son did he? If you hold the view that Jesus is the one true God in this verse, then you have to conclude that Jesus has a son called Jesus because the one who is true has a son called Jesus according to the verse.

So by this very simple, clear, and reasonable reading of the text, we can see that the Father is the one who is true and we are in the Father because we are in HIS son. That is the only way you can read this verse.

Do you need further proof? Well look at John 17:3:
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

As you can see, the only true God is not Jesus Christ here either because the only true God is said to have sent Jesus Christ just like 1 John 5:20 says.

The next verse supports these two preceding verses and teaches that Jesus is not God, rather, that he was sent by God as confirmed in these two verses above.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

You have just been shown two or three witness verses that clearly state that God sent his son into the world and that this God who has a son is the only true God.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 381 through 400 (of 1,982 total)
123…192021…9899100
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    Posts
  • March 25, 2012 at 8:05 am#287483
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,16:58)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,16:48)
    Hi Jammin,
    Yes the Holy Spirit is more than the Word.
    In the Spirit you can also fellowship with his God.[2jn9]


    but the WORD in john 1.1 is not the HS. it refers to Christ, the son of GOD.

    now we may continue this topic to the john 1.1 thread. bec the topic here is about 1 john 5.20


    Hi Jammin,
    CHRIST means anointed.
    The man Jesus of Nazareth was anointed with the Holy Spirit.

    Thence he beCame JESUS CHRIST and spiritually can now be known also AS the WORD

    March 25, 2012 at 8:10 am#287485
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    Are you honestly saying the Spirit of God is ANOTHER PERSON from God?
    Is your spirit another person from you?
    Mt 10.20

    March 25, 2012 at 3:01 pm#287497
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,19:10)
    Hi Jammin,
    Are you honestly saying the Spirit of God is ANOTHER PERSON from God?
    Is your spirit another person from you?
    Mt 10.20


    this is not topic here.. but ill answer your question.

    the spirit of man cant be compared to the Spirit of GOD. why? bec GOD's Spirit can talk
    acts 13
    2As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

    has mind
    Romans 8:27
    (NLV)
    27 God knows the hearts of men. He knows what the Holy Spirit is thinking. The Holy Spirit prays for those who belong to Christ the way God wants Him to pray.

    he is grieved

    Ephesians 4:30
    (NIV)
    30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

    and many more..

    can your spirit do that???

    this clearly proves that the Spirit is a person.
    the father is a person
    the son is a person
    the HS is a person

    but one in nature, GOD

    March 25, 2012 at 3:02 pm#287498
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 24 2012,22:48)
    do not explain mike.

    im still waiting for you answer.

    you and your father have the same nature, MAN. TRULY MAN!
    do you agree?


    Still waiting?  ???

    I've answered this for you at least a dozen times already.  ???

    Yes.  I, like my father BEFORE me, both have the flesh nature of those who dwell on earth.  But I am not my father, nor have I his memories, wisdom, experiences, etc.  For example, my father built a landscape supply company in the 1960's – I did not.

    Likewise, in the case of Jesus, “YES”.  Like Jesus' Father BEFORE him, both have the spirit nature of those who dwell in heaven.  But Jesus is not his Father, nor do the things his Father has done automatically apply to him.  For example, his Father stretched out the heavens and formed the earth.  Does that mean JESUS did these things because his Father did them – as if they are the same, exact being?  Of course not.

    Just as the fact that JESUS was sent into the earth to die as a sacrificial Lamb does not mean that his Father was sent into the earth to die as a sacrificial Lamb.

    jammin, our main difference is not that the Father and Son are two separate PERSONS, because we both believe that.  Our difference lies in that you don't see them as the two separate BEINGS that they are.

    And while they are both gods (along with many others who are gods), only ONE of them is the Omniscient Creator of All Things; and therefore only ONE of them is called “The only true God”, “God Most High”, “God Almighty”, and “The God of gods”.

    The other one was the beginning of the creation OF that first One.  (Rev 3:14, Col 1:15)  

    One of them is “God Most High”, and the other one is the SON OF “God Most High”.  (Mark 5:7)

    March 25, 2012 at 3:02 pm#287499
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,19:05)

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,16:58)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,16:48)
    Hi Jammin,
    Yes the Holy Spirit is more than the Word.
    In the Spirit you can also fellowship with his God.[2jn9]


    but the WORD in john 1.1 is not the HS. it refers to Christ, the son of GOD.

    now we may continue this topic to the john 1.1 thread. bec the topic here is about 1 john 5.20


    Hi Jammin,
    CHRIST means anointed.
    The man Jesus of Nazareth was anointed with the Holy Spirit.

    Thence he beCame JESUS CHRIST and spiritually can now be known also AS the WORD


    you cant read your opinion.

    no verse that says he became Christ at the jordan river.

    pls stick to the topic.
    make a new thread for this question

    March 25, 2012 at 3:04 pm#287500
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,02:02)

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 24 2012,22:48)
    do not explain mike.

    im still waiting for you answer.

    you and your father have the same nature, MAN. TRULY MAN!
    do you agree?


    Still waiting?  ???

    I've answered this for you at least a dozen times already.  ???

    Yes.  I, like my father BEFORE me, both have the flesh nature of those who dwell on earth.  But I am not my father, nor have I his memories, wisdom, experiences, etc.  For example, my father built a landscape supply company in the 1960's – I did not.

    Likewise, in the case of Jesus, “YES”.  Like Jesus' Father BEFORE him, both have the spirit nature of those who dwell in heaven.  But Jesus is not his Father, nor do the things his Father has done automatically apply to him.  For example, his Father stretched out the heavens and formed the earth.  Does that mean JESUS did these things because his Father did them – as if they are the same, exact being?  Of course not.

    Just as the fact that JESUS was sent into the earth to die as a sacrificial Lamb does not mean that his Father was sent into the earth to die as a sacrificial Lamb.

    jammin, our main difference is not that the Father and Son are two separate PERSONS, because we both believe that.  Our difference lies in that you don't see them as the two separate BEINGS that they are.

    And while they are both gods (along with many others who are gods), only ONE of them is the Omniscient Creator of All Things; and therefore only ONE of them is called “The only true God”, “God Most High”, “God Almighty”, and “The God of gods”.

    The other one was the beginning of the creation OF that first One.  (Rev 3:14, Col 1:15)  

    One of them is “God Most High”, and the other one is the SON OF “God Most High”.  (Mark 5:7)


    so you agree that you and your father have the same nature, MAN. you are truly man.

    now, i did not say that the father is the son. did i say that?
    what i am saying is the father and the son have the same nature, GOD.

    truly GOD.

    that is what the bible says.

    March 25, 2012 at 3:09 pm#287501
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 24 2012,21:08)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,12:38)
    Ed,

    It was clear to all of us (including you) that David was using an example to show how weak jammin's sole proof is.

    It is also clear to all of us (including you) that you purposely took David's example and tried to make it seem as if David was really offering as proof the argument that since no scripture says Jesus is NOT Michael, then he must BE Michael.

    I was going to say something when I first read your twisted post, but then I figured that we are all aware of the games you play here.  I also figured David could handle himself.

    I only make this post now to show that David is not alone in recognizing the twisted game you attempted to play with him.


    Hi Mike,

    There are no verses that say Jesus is(?) the word,
    yet you hold to it simply because there are no verses
    that say he is not; so I do understand your sensitivity. :)

    God bless
    Ed J


    See Ed?

    Now you attempt to play the same twisted game with me.  Have I ever claimed that Jesus is the Word simply because there are no scriptures saying he isn't?  YES or NO?

    We can all see through these games, Ed.  And they really reflect poorly on YOU – not on us.

    You should reconsider your approach, IMO.

    March 25, 2012 at 3:10 pm#287502
    jammin
    Participant

    how many times i have told you that Christ was not created. you are always using that col 1.15 but your understanding is wrong.

    col 1.15 refers to supremacy of Christ!
    paul did not say he is created. even if you read that verse over and over again, you cant read that paul said he is created. that is just only your opinion.
    the reason why he is called the firstborn of all creation is bec ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM

    March 25, 2012 at 3:14 pm#287503
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,09:04)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,02:02)

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 24 2012,22:48)
    do not explain mike.

    im still waiting for you answer.

    you and your father have the same nature, MAN. TRULY MAN!
    do you agree?


    Still waiting?  ???

    I've answered this for you at least a dozen times already.  ???

    Yes.  I, like my father BEFORE me, both have the flesh nature of those who dwell on earth.  But I am not my father, nor have I his memories, wisdom, experiences, etc.  For example, my father built a landscape supply company in the 1960's – I did not.

    Likewise, in the case of Jesus, “YES”.  Like Jesus' Father BEFORE him, both have the spirit nature of those who dwell in heaven.  But Jesus is not his Father, nor do the things his Father has done automatically apply to him.  For example, his Father stretched out the heavens and formed the earth.  Does that mean JESUS did these things because his Father did them – as if they are the same, exact being?  Of course not.

    Just as the fact that JESUS was sent into the earth to die as a sacrificial Lamb does not mean that his Father was sent into the earth to die as a sacrificial Lamb.

    jammin, our main difference is not that the Father and Son are two separate PERSONS, because we both believe that.  Our difference lies in that you don't see them as the two separate BEINGS that they are.

    And while they are both gods (along with many others who are gods), only ONE of them is the Omniscient Creator of All Things; and therefore only ONE of them is called “The only true God”, “God Most High”, “God Almighty”, and “The God of gods”.

    The other one was the beginning of the creation OF that first One.  (Rev 3:14, Col 1:15)  

    One of them is “God Most High”, and the other one is the SON OF “God Most High”.  (Mark 5:7)


    so you agree that you and your father have the same nature, MAN. you are truly man.

    now, i did not say that the father is the son. did i say that?
    what i am saying is the father and the son have the same nature, GOD.

    truly GOD.

    that is what the bible says.


    jammin,

    “GOD” isn't a “nature”. Do you know the scripture that says “God is spirit”? “Spirit” is the nature, not “God”.

    And yes, Jesus, like his Father and God BEFORE him, has a spirit nature. So do all the other sons of God in heaven.

    Yet none of those sons of God (including Jesus) are the “God Most High” who brought them into existence.

    March 25, 2012 at 3:15 pm#287504
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,09:10)
    how many times i have told you that Christ was not created.

    col 1.15 refers to supremacy of Christ!


    And what about Rev 3:14, jammin?

    March 25, 2012 at 3:17 pm#287505
    jammin
    Participant

    same explnation mike.

    rev 3.14 means Christ is the ruler of God's creation.

    March 25, 2012 at 3:19 pm#287507
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Wouldn't “God” be the ruler of “God's” creation? ???

    (Notice that 3:14 doesn't say “beginning/ruler of HIS OWN creation”, but “the creation of GOD”)

    I will start a thread about Jesus being a creation, okay?

    March 25, 2012 at 3:25 pm#287508
    jammin
    Participant

    ok

    March 25, 2012 at 4:16 pm#287515
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    I started it, jammin. It is called “Was Jesus Created?”

    March 25, 2012 at 4:33 pm#287518
    jammin
    Participant

    thanks mike :)

    March 25, 2012 at 4:39 pm#287519
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 26 2012,02:04)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,02:02)

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 24 2012,22:48)
    do not explain mike.

    im still waiting for you answer.

    you and your father have the same nature, MAN. TRULY MAN!
    do you agree?


    Still waiting?  ???

    I've answered this for you at least a dozen times already.  ???

    Yes.  I, like my father BEFORE me, both have the flesh nature of those who dwell on earth.  But I am not my father, nor have I his memories, wisdom, experiences, etc.  For example, my father built a landscape supply company in the 1960's – I did not.

    Likewise, in the case of Jesus, “YES”.  Like Jesus' Father BEFORE him, both have the spirit nature of those who dwell in heaven.  But Jesus is not his Father, nor do the things his Father has done automatically apply to him.  For example, his Father stretched out the heavens and formed the earth.  Does that mean JESUS did these things because his Father did them – as if they are the same, exact being?  Of course not.

    Just as the fact that JESUS was sent into the earth to die as a sacrificial Lamb does not mean that his Father was sent into the earth to die as a sacrificial Lamb.

    jammin, our main difference is not that the Father and Son are two separate PERSONS, because we both believe that.  Our difference lies in that you don't see them as the two separate BEINGS that they are.

    And while they are both gods (along with many others who are gods), only ONE of them is the Omniscient Creator of All Things; and therefore only ONE of them is called “The only true God”, “God Most High”, “God Almighty”, and “The God of gods”.

    The other one was the beginning of the creation OF that first One.  (Rev 3:14, Col 1:15)  

    One of them is “God Most High”, and the other one is the SON OF “God Most High”.  (Mark 5:7)


    so you agree that you and your father have the same nature, MAN. you are truly man.

    now, i did not say that the father is the son. did i say that?
    what i am saying is the father and the son have the same nature, GOD.

    truly GOD.

    that is what the bible says.


    Quote
    this clearly proves that the Spirit is a person.
    the father is a person
    the son is a person
    the HS is a person

    but one in nature, GOD

    Jammin,

    Perfectly right,

    But the Father has His own spirit since He is a person, although it is only our mode of uderstanding because we humans cannot establish within our mortal corrupted substances the justified term for what God is and how he is.

    The Son also has His own spirit since He also is a person who was eternally ONE WITH THE FATHER.

    The Holy Ghost also has His own Spirit since He is also a person

    As you concluded, always remain in ONE DIVINITY notwithstanding the fact that they function Independently.

    One particular scripture which demonstrate this all John 17

    peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    March 25, 2012 at 4:52 pm#287522
    jammin
    Participant

    ill read that john 17. and thanks for the chapter.

    :)

    March 25, 2012 at 5:01 pm#287523
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,03:16)
    I started it, jammin.  It is called “Was Jesus Created?”


    Quote
    I started it, jammin.  It is called “Was Jesus Created?”

    Hi Mike,

    How can God non created being abide in a substance which is less then Himself???

    So Jesus must be equal with the Father in order for the Fulness of the Father to abide within.

    So Jesus was never created, but was born through the conceivement in Mary,by the Holy Spirit from the Father.

    Now! Mary, was created as a human being,through the transformation of Jesus' Spirit,through NATURE to  become the  IMMACULATE Substance of Jesus'flesh.

    So when you reflect Mary is actually Jesus spirit in her human entity,and when the Father conceived Mary through the Holy Spirit, HE WAS ACTUALLY AS JESUS SAID IN:

    JOHN 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me

    SO THE FATHER WAS IN HIS SON'S SUBSTANCE AS FLESH IN MARY AND CONCEIVED HIS SON IN HER WOMB,SO THE FATHER WAS IN HIS SON ON CONCEVEMENT.

    PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS

    CHARLES

    March 25, 2012 at 5:01 pm#287524
    jammin
    Participant

    hi caarmel. i read the whole chapter 17 of john but i cant read your belief.
    can you give e the exact verse.

    you said that the holy spirit has his own spirit. where is that in john 17?

    March 25, 2012 at 5:20 pm#287528
    david
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 25 2012,15:37)

    Quote (david @ Mar. 25 2012,05:04)
    Ed, according to JAMMIN'S logic (not mine!) Jesus is Michael the Archangel,

    because:

    The Bible doesn't say “Jesus is NOT the Archangel.”

    Do you understand Ed?


    michael is not the topic here david. make your own thread. and i can prove that to you that the jesus is not the archangel.

    better luck next time boy.
    study hard


    Why do I often get the feeling that I am dealing with people who haven't studied clear thinking?

    My comment was not specifically about Michael. You can INSERT WHATEVER YOU WANT! My point was about the LOGIC of your statement.

    The Bible doesn't say that Ed isn't God. Therefore…
    The Bible doesn't say that jammin is a Rock. Therefore…
    The Bible doesn't say that….

    I know you understand what I'm saying, but I also know that you must close your mind to obvious logic in order to retain your belief. So, I both understand and am at the same time frustrated.

    I am now thinking about starting a thread as you suggest that states that based on your own logic, jammin believes that “michael is Jesus” (after all, the Bible doesn't say that he isn't.)

    And, it doesn't really matter if you can “prove to me that Jesus isn't the archangel.”

    Because I can then just do what you do and repeatedly say this:
    The Bible doesn't say: “Michael is NOT Jesus.” Therefore, he is. Absurd logic. yes. Your logic. yes.

    So, why do you only use that logic sometimes and not other times?
    If it cannot be used as proof in itself is it really proof?
    And, if it's not proof, why do you keep repeating it, as though it means something?

    david

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