What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 541 through 560 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #795867
    Ed J
    Participant

    Jesus is called the Word of God in Revelation.

    Hi T8,

    No he isn’t – Jesus isn’t called “The Word” of God anywhere in Scripture.

    Jesus said: the words he spoke were spirit (John 6:63)
    That means “The Word” is spirit, but which spirit?
    1) the HolySpirit
    2) the spirit of Christ

    Jesus also said: the words he spoke were his Fathers (John 12:48-50)
    Therefore “The Word” is the HolySpirit – Jesus’ father. (Matt.1:18)

    You are of course free to believe what religion has taught you,
    but as for me – I will instead believe what’s in the bible.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #795868
    Ed J
    Participant

    “Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory;
    that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls
    in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren,
    see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

    Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,
    by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.” (1 Peter 1:21-23)

    #795869
    Ed J
    Participant

    Jesus was born by “The Word” of God, and
    we are born-again by “The Word” of God.

    #795872
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi ED,

    Jesus was born again at the Jordan.

    We follow him.

    #795873
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi ED.

    Jn3

    That which is born of flesh is flesh;[Bethlehem]

    and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit[Jordan]

    #795874
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi ED,

    Jesus was born again at the Jordan.

    We follow him.

    Hi Nick,

    Is that when “The Word” maketh the son?

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #795879
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi ED,

    You mean heb 7.28

    But the word OF THE OATH maketh the son..”

     

    A promise

    #795896
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Do you accept what Jesus said that the Father spoke and did the works through him?

    Do you hear the voice of the Spirit in the words of Jesus?

    #795899
    Miia
    Participant

    Hi ED,

    Jesus was born again at the Jordan.

    We follow him.

    Hi Nick, the avoidance of water baptism seems to motivate some doctrines!

    #795901
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    No he isn’t – Jesus isn’t called “The Word” of God anywhere in Scripture.

    Ah yes, I should have known better. It was late when I made that comment.

    He wears a vestiture with that title written on it.

    However, I believe that you cannot rule out that he is the Word of God given what we read in scripture regarding both the Word and Jesus.

    The reason being that you can interchange Jesus Christ and Word of God in many scriptures and concepts in scripture and they stay true.

    e.g.,

    • God created all things through his Word and through the son, Jesus Christ.
    • Jesus returned to the glory that he had with the Father before the cosmos began and the Word was with God in the beginning.
    • The Word that was with God matches Jesus who is now at the right-hand of God. In other words he is with God now. Is the Word still with God?
    • Logos basically means “the expression of a thought. and Jesus is the FULL expression/image of the invisible God.
    • Scripture says that Jesus came in the flesh and it says that the Word became flesh.The Word that became flesh is clearly in relation to Jesus Christ.

    The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    NOTE that it does not say that the Word became flesh and made his dwelling in Jesus, but that the Word made his dwelling among people, thus Jesus made his dwelling among people.

    My conclusion is that you cannot emphatically say that the Word that was with God is NOT Jesus Christ before he was born as a man and given the name Jesus. We are clearly taught that God made all things through Jesus the son of God. This seems more than just a Second Adam to me. One was a living soul, the other a life giving spirit.

    to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

    #795902
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    “NOTE that it does not say that the Word became flesh and made his dwelling in Jesus, but that the Word made his dwelling among people, thus Jesus made his dwelling among people.”

    You assume that the WORD refers to Jesus of Nazareth even though you conceded this was not proven.

    You assume it relates to the conception or birth of a man and not his rebirth from above.

     

    Flesh from flesh and spirit from Spirit.

    #795904
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I do not concede this.

    I am saying that you cannot say that he was not with God in the beginning which is what you are saying right.

    We know that Jesus is the full expression/image of the invisible God and God made all things through him and for him, thus it also says that God made all through the Word and we know that the Word was WITH God too.

    We are also told that Jesus he he returned to the glory he had with God before the Cosmos.

    This is why I question you regarding the Word of God. Your view seems to fly in the face of these other scriptures and there are quite a few of them.

    I remain open in this view however. But have not seen any good reason to NOT believe that Jesus was with God before the Cosmos as the Word. That he did NOT exist as a spirit with God or in the form of God, that God did NOT make all things through him and for him.

    I get it, he is the mystery of the ages. But your view seems to deny these other qualities, attributes, and history of Jesus Christ that are written in numerous places. I am testing your teachings  with what is written to determine the truth. And so far I have to believe that he came from God and returned to God in the glory that he had with the Father before the Cosmos began.

    #795905
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    You say JESUS in most of your assertions and then JESUS CHRIST at the end.

    Do you believe that the terms are completely interchangeable?

    #795906
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T*,

    Can you substitute JESUS for JESUS CHRIST or CHRIST in all the words of Paul?

    Should you?

    #795908
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Jesus is the Christ. Yes when I say Jesus, I am talking about the Christ. The one whom God made both Lord and Christ.

    Those who deny that Jesus is the Christ are of the antichrist spirit. If we say that he was not the Christ when he was 25 years old, then is that Antichrist?

    I think the Gnostics believed that Jesus was not the Christ, but Christ came down on him at his baptism so he became Christ. That his own spirit descended upon Him at his baptism.

    We do read verses in scripture that could contradict that view:

    the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings;

    even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

    Perhaps we are running into the same problem with our time vs God’s time?

    We know that the people of Israel were awaiting the coming of “The Anointed One”. He would be sent from God to deliver Israel and rule over them. This can be found in Isaiah 61:1-3 and Jesus proclaimed this in the synagogue and the Jews understood this to be a Messianic prophecy and got upset at him.

    The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

    This was after his baptism, so yes it could be that he became the Christ at his baptism. However, he was the son of God before that. His unique birth, and his ancient origins are taught in scripture.

    #795909
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T*,

    So Jesus was MADE the Christ.

    I agree.

     

    So how do you know the references to his ancient origins relate to the MAN and not the ANOINTING?

     

    The lamb slain from the foundation of the world is a KJV quirk and easily sorted by comparison with rev 17. 8f

    The prophetic style of God’s word will always trip the unwary.

    #795910
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    So looking at a book of Paul’s , Colossians.

    In the book at a rough count these terms are used about the same Lord

     

    Jesus Christ 5 times

    Christ           15 times

    Lord Jesus    once

    Lord               2 times

    Son                once

    Lord Christ    once

    and JESUS alone          NEVER

    Should we replace the words used with JESUS?

    Why did he do this?

     

    2Cor5. 16

    2Cor 3.17

     

    Look beyond the FLESH

     

    #795913
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Did JESUS come in the flesh?

    Did all creation come through JESUS?

    Was JESUS God and with God?

     

    Care with scripture is vital.

    #796002
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Have you heard the voice of the Spirit in the words of Jesus Christ?

    Jesus said we should. My sheep hear my voice.

    #796010
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Did JESUS come in the flesh?
    Did all creation come through JESUS?
    Was JESUS God and with God?
    Care with scripture is vital.

    1 John 4:2
    This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

    2 John 1:7
    I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    2 John 1:9
    Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

    Hebrews 1:2
    but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

    Colossians 1:13-17
    13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
    15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

    1 John 1-3
    1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
    The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 

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