What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 481 through 500 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #794088
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

     

    “don’t get confused by man-made beliefs..Satan also works in religion to get us caught up in the externals, and away from the deeper reality of spiritual truth found only in knowing Jesus Christ.”

    Trinity is man made.

    you said so.

     

    #794093
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW

    “John takes the first four words of Scripture “In the beginning God..” and inserts Jesus in here as the Word..

    God created the heaven and earth by his Word but the first mention is when he spoke and said “Let there be Light” and there was light.

    Jesus was not conceived nor were those by which he originated, except for God. God had not yet made Adam.”

    Of course Jesus did not exist.

    You should not change WORD for JESUS

    and ADD TO scripture

    #794121
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    To those whose foundation of faith is the Trinity, then you need to hear this.

    If any of you are not teaching the following as being what John the Apostle was teaching in his writings, then you are misrepresenting him.

    John 20:30-31.
    30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
    31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    If you think that John was teaching the Trinity, then you are wrong. He was affirming what we already know and are persecuted for, that Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah. The very same confession that the Father showed Peter and upon which Jesus built his Church. Any other foundation is built in vain and works built on another foundation will fall when it is shaken because the foundation is not solid.

    You can debate me on this issue if you want, but realise that you are not really debating me.

    #794122
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    To all. 

    Do you think your view on John 1:1 is sound and true?

    Test your own view by comparing it another opening verse from John which says the same thing but is worded differently.

    1 John 1:1-2
    “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

    If you view of John 1:1 does not align with 1 John 1:1-2, then you need to reassess.

    #794129
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Yes John saw heard and touched the WORD OF LIFE

    when he saw heard and touched the vessel Jesus.

    Jesus now inseperable from the Word

     

    Just as Thomas heard his Lord, and His God.

    #794130
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    The Word was before Jesus.

    The Word was made flesh.

    Now man can inherit glory.

    #794135
    NickHassan
    Participant

    <hr />

    HI T8,

    THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH AND DWELLED AMONG US

    Jesus was flesh from his conception. He dwelled among us from his birth

    But the Word was with God from the beginning.

     

    The Word was made flesh in Jesus at the Jordan

    #794359
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Jesus (shell/body) + Word of God = Jesus Christ?

    #794364
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Would you deny the wonderful obedience of Jesus?

    There is no greater vessel.

     

    From his decision to obey God, God takes over.

    Flesh contributes nothing.

     

    The Word was made flesh.

    The Word that was with God.

     

    #794365
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8,

    But his decision enabled all flesh human beings to join in the triumph and celebrate the victory forever.

    Many many souls enlivened by the eternal Spirit.

    #794368
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    His soul and body made up that glorious vessel [2tim2.20f] as it does for us. We too have this treasure in earthen vessels[2cor4.7] and the work is of Christ, in God.

    The heart and mind that make up the soul are transformed by renewal [rom 12 2. eph 4 13] according to the teaching and sanctification by the indwelling Spirit.

    The body is replaced with a heavenly one that lasts.

     

    #794405
    kerwin
    Participant

    T8,

    Jesus (shell/body) + Word of God = Jesus Christ?

    Jesus contributes more than his body. He is a human being and therefore contributes the inner and outer being of a human being, which is equivalent to the three part of a human: their body, soul, and spirit.

    God’s Spirit contributes the very Word that is uttered by God.

    #794406
    kerwin
    Participant

    t8,

    Could you tell me the definitions of the word “was”?

    #794408
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    I do not believe John was inserting Jesus in the beginning, even in the way you say. I believe he was literally speaking about the Word of God. In many English language translation the Word of God is personalized but all I know that does that is the arbitrary choice of translators to translate the Koine Greek pronouns that we addressing the gender of the noun “word” to the English pronoun that addresses the gender of the subject. It is a choice in translation that is in the eye of the beholder.

    In short there is no reason not to interpret the word “word” as meaning that what comes out of God’s mouth except that tradition tells us that it is the Christ. That tradition is made by Trinitarians. What confuses the issue is that the word of God did take on the characteristics of a a human being at the time it was made flesh. At a consequence Jesus took on the characteristics of the word of God.

    The literal interpretation explains all the facts and is the simplest. The Spirit is implied by the presence of the Word of God but it is hidden.

    #794410
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    Jesus said he was the Light of the world only as long as he was in the world.

    He is the light and the way as those are his characteristics. He provides the path upon which his students sail and the light that keeps them from the reveals the rocks. Strive to get and stay on that narrow path.

    #794417
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    I keep telling you all that John has a poetic writing style that has nothing to do with “the beginning” of time or creation as in genesis it is just a phrase John uses often:

    John 15:27
    and ye also bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

    Obviously the disciples weren’t at the creation, this is John’s style

    John 8:25
    They said therefore unto him, Who art thou? Jesus said unto them, Even that which I have also spoken unto you from the beginning.

    John 6:64
    But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him.

    1 John 2:7
    Beloved, no new commandment write I unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning: the old commandment is the word which ye heard.

    2 John 1:6
    And this is love, that we should walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, even as ye heard from the beginning, that ye should walk in it.

    Now Mark is much more literal:

    Mark 1:1
    The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

    John 1:1 is a poetic beginning of the Gospel that’s all it is folks

    #794530
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Mark 1:1
    The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

    You are incorrect

    bodhitharta,

    Read:

    And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins.

    NOW CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

    I TELL YOU:

    WHEN MARK WROTE THE GOSPEL, JESUS WAS ESTABLISHED:

    AS JESUS CHRIST

     

    also I always end my post as Jesus IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT JESUS IS NOT THE CHRIST!

    THE WORD CHRIST STANDS FOR HIS GLORIFICATION AS GOD!

    ANOINTED BY THE FATHER AS:

    THE FATHER’S PRESENCE FOR ETERNITY!

    HIS ONLY TRUE MANIFESTATION

    THE FATHER IS WELL PLEASED THAT JESUS IS HIS GENUINE ABODE!

    THE ONLY INVISIBLE/TANGIBLE GOD

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #794533
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Mark 1:1
    The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

    You are incorrect

    bodhitharta,

    Read:

    And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins.

    NOW CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

    I TELL YOU:

    WHEN MARK WROTE THE GOSPEL, JESUS WAS ESTABLISHED:

    AS JESUS CHRIST

    Actually my post had to do with John using the term “In the beginning” it wasn’t about the name of Jesus. Once he is established as Jesus Christ there really is no other meaningful reference about when that occured

    #794586
    carmel
    Participant

     

    SO ONCE HE RESURRECTED AND MANIFESTED HIMSELF TO THEM,WHICH WAS VITAL FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE CHURCH, THEY ACCEPTED HIM FULLY, WITH THE NEW NAME AS:

    JESUS CHRIST!

    BEFORE HE WAS ONLY JESUS,NO?

    BD,

    THE ABOVE IS MY COMMENT, WHICH YOU POSTED!

    Hereunder is your comment related to the above:

    Matthew 1:16
    And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

    Matthew 1:18
    Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

    Mark 1:1
    The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

    You are incorrect

    NOW YOU HAVE JUST SAID:

    Actually my post had to do with John using the term “In the beginning” it wasn’t about the name of Jesus. Once he is established as Jesus Christ there really is no other meaningful reference about when that occured

    CAN YOU EXPLAIN YOUR POINT AGAIN SINCE I CANNOT QUITE UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN IN RELATION TO MY STATEMENT?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus

     

    Charles

    #795160
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Would you deny the wonderful obedience of Jesus?

    There is no greater vessel.

    From his decision to obey God, God takes over.

    Flesh contributes nothing.

    The Word was made flesh.

    The Word that was with God.

    You seem to be saying that Jesus is flesh and Word is God, thus Jesus Christ is the combination.

    But if Jesus is the flesh only, then how did Jesus come in the flesh?

    And why is it that you and I are more than flesh?

    Was he less than us?

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