What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 441 through 460 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #793682
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Kerwin,that’s good to hear because i’ve heard the teaching that Jesus is not yet a king by dispensationalists and was taught this as a new believer.It is such confusion! And I’ve noticed that most now don’t even teach this controversy anymore  unless they are committed dispensationalists of one type or another.Of course they-dispensationalists, don’t agree either on how to properly”divide the word”.

    #793684
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    1 Corinthians 15:24-28Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    That is the passage Nick directed you to and I addressed in my last post.

    #793685
    kerwin
    Participant

    Andrew,
    There is the technical objection that Jesus is not yet the litter ruler of the holy land.

    The answer is he declared he was Lord of it and every other part of earth but like the rest of the earth it is still in rebellion.

    #793690
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Kerwin,

    It is written “they who worship God should worship in spirit and in truth” we don’t need to go to the”holy land”be it Jerusalem,Samaria,Rome,Mecca or Salt Lake City.Jesus is king over a heavenly,spiritual kingdom that is”not of this world”.If God is literally ruling over this world now then so is Jesus.But many believers don’t even believe that which is understandable too.

    #793691
    DavidL
    Participant

    That is the passage Nick directed you to and I addressed in my last post.

    Yes, that is what I responded to..

    <span class=”cmt_sub_title”>Verse 24.</span> – <span class=”cmt_word”>The end.</span> That “end of all things,” beyond which the vision of Christian eschatology does not look. <span class=”cmt_word”>When he shall have</span> <span class=”cmt_word”>delivered up the kingdom to God.</span> The “kingdom” delivered up is not that of the coequal Godhead, but the mediatorial kingdom. The Divine kingdom “shall have no end” (Luke 1:33, etc.), and “shall not pass away” (Daniel 7:13). But the mediatorial kingdom shall end in completion when the redemptive act has achieved its final end. <span class=”cmt_word”>When he shall have put down;</span> rather, <span class=”accented”>shall have annulled</span> or <span class=”accented”>abolished. All rule.</span> Because then “the kingdoms of the world” shall all “have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ” (Revelation 11:15).

     

    See more..

    http://biblehub.com/commentaries/pulpit/1_corinthians/15.htm

    #793697
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi DavidL

    I know you like ignoring my posts but here goes anyway

    No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.” John 3:13

    Did Elijah ascend into heaven?

    2 Kings 2:11New King James Version (NKJV)

    11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

    DavidL I see why you feel the way you do, the only problem is when asked about the trinity you spend most of the time trying to make Jesus equate to God but that is not a trinity, Can you now show where the 3rd part is equal to the other 2?

    If you have no verses for that will you just assume it or will you say “I don’t know”?

    So let’s just summarize according to your perception

    John 1:1 New King James Version (NKJV)

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    Okay, so we have God and The word of God(Jesus) and so there is this UNITY and the one in the beginning with God is also God, so where was The Holy Spirit? You rely completely on John 1:1 so please tell me how this fits into a trinitarian scheme, because according to you there are only 2 in the beginning

    #793702
    DavidL
    Participant

    Try that again..

    That is the passage Nick directed you to and I addressed in my last post.

    Yes, that is what I responded to..

    Verse 24. The end. That “end of all things,” beyond which the vision of Christian eschatology does not look. When he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God. The “kingdom” delivered up is not that of the coequal Godhead, but the mediatorial kingdom. The Divine kingdom “shall have no end” (Luke 1:33, etc.), and “shall not pass away” (Daniel 7:13). But the mediatorial kingdom shall end in completion when the redemptive act has achieved its final end. When he shall have put down; rather shall have annulled or abolished. All rule. Because then “the kingdoms of the world” shall all “have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ” (Revelation 11:15).

    http://biblehub.com/commentaries/pulpit/1_corinthians/15.htm

    #793704
    DavidL
    Participant

    bodhitharta

    To deny the trinity is to deny the Son His deity and Oneness with the Father…

    We could move forward once this Oneness is established..

    Acts 5 (as Nick inadvertently pointed out) reveals that to lie to the Spirit is to lie to God…

    Thus confirming the deity of the Spirit..

    As for the Spirit in relation to John 1:1 – Genesis 1:1 reveals the presence of the Spirit in the beginning.

    #793705
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Which heaven was Elijah taken to?

    #793707
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    You are so sure of your doctrinal stance.

    But it is on shaky ground.

    There is no trinity in scripture

    #793708
    DavidL
    Participant

    P.S. John was focused on the Son of God – the deity and co-equal status of the Spirit did not concern him… which had to be established later to counter heretical teachings that arose within Christendom at that time..

    and that is re-manifesting today..

    It should be realized that all cult error is manifesting strongly now, because we are fast approaching the final unveiling of the Antichrist.. (and his counterfeit trinity)…

    #793716
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Did Elijah ascend into heaven?

    bodhitharta

    With every respect:

    YOU DISCERN THINGS UP TO YOUR NOSE!

    DO YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE HEAVENS,

    NOT HEAVEN

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #793721
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Davidl,

    Peter said

    “You are the Christ the Son of the living God “and Jesus approved.

    Do you agree with Peter or have you learned more than Peter and Jesus?

    #793722
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    When you copy and quote from the web make sure you are in the text editor and visual one as the later places html codes all through the quote, The appropriate tabs are on the right top of the post you are working on.

    #793723
    kerwin
    Participant

    AndrewAD,

    God chose the Hebrew people and the land they settled and I do see where he rejected them. The Gospel has come to us through them though many of them do not believe the Messiah has come. I appreciate receiving the message as those Jews it was given to went out and preached to the nations.

    The Hebrews and their land are a symbol of the world to come. The other Holy Places are just attempts to usurp the role that the Hebrews and their land have fulfilled. I cannot say they are done as I am fairly sure that the Gentiles will return the message to them.

    #793724
    kerwin
    Participant

    DavidL,

    The Spirit of the Antichrist has been in the world for ages and ages doing his work. That Spirit may be the False Prophet or the False Prophet may be a human that lives by him. I do not know nor do I believe it is wise to be presumptuous enough to say who or what is the False Prophet.

    #793726
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    The worst heresy is the trinity one.

    But you swallowed it and now look down on others

    #793815
    DavidL
    Participant

    Peter said

    “You are the Christ the Son of the living God “and Jesus approved.

    Do you agree with Peter or have you learned more than Peter and Jesus?

     

    It’s not merely a matter of agreeing – but also understanding..

    ..and this is an important Scripture to understand – first, we should remember HOW this amazing knowledge and insight about Jesus Christ was ascertained by Peter… Did he study a lot of religious books, digest all the relevant intellectual information, make an endless heap of clever analytical deductions on the grammatical correctness of the Hebrew language and then after years of tedious research and study finally reach the apex of his logical conclusions on the interpretation of the law and thus hit the jackpot as to the true identity of the Jewish Messiah…? No, and yet as Christians this is the foolish way we continually attempt to gain understanding of Scripture – when in fact it is this ‘head-knowledge’ approach that actually BLINDS us to the truth – and like the Pharisees, we also miss the reality of Jesus Christ Himself..

    The Pharisees bathed their minds continually in the intellectual knowledge of Scripture only to be exposed and condemned by an uneducated nobody from Nazareth – as children of the devil…!!! And yet a common fisherman from Galilee received understanding that somehow alluded all these great religious minds – why..? because Peter had a LOVE for truth that surpassed his own desire for greatness…

    Thus Peter suddenly had his spiritual eyes opened to the reality of Jesus – the knowledge imparted to him came direct from God (not man)…and thus Jesus stated that this way of understanding was to be the very foundation upon which He Himself will build and unite His followers into His true Body on earth..NOT by the teachings or organization of men – but by the revelation and guidance of the Spirit.

     

    …but here you try and use Peter’s revelation as a statement of proof for your anti-trinity disposition – yes, of course Jesus is the Son of God – but do you understand that according to Scripture the Son of God has a lot more significance than the low level your doctrinal position attempts to consign to it…?

    “Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!” – Matt 27:54

    What was the centurion saying..? was he thinking that Jesus was maybe a great spiritual man or master..? or was he confirming the high status in which the jealous Jews had already acknowledged this title of ‘Son’ as –

    “We have a law, and according to that law He must die, because He claimed to be the Son of God.” John 19:7

    “For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” John 5:18

    “We are not stoning You for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because You, a mere man, claim to be God.” John 10:33

     

    So yes indeed, I certainly agree with Peter – Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God…!!!

    #793818
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Good,

    So the impressions gained by the carnal pharisees were all nonsense

    Or do you want to agree with them too?

    #793823
    DavidL
    Participant

    The question you should ask is…

    Was this understanding limited to the Pharisees alone – or is the concept of the Son’s equality with God openly confirmed in Scripture..?

    Paul says of Christ, ” who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped..” and, “For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.”

    John says the Word was with God, and the Word was God…

     

    All these verses and many more confirm the equality of the Son with the Father… it’s not just some Catholic dogma as you rigidly claim…

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