A message from a physicist and a message from a flat earther

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April 27, 2018 at 5:16 pm#822771
Proclaimer
Participant
Mike, New Zealand is home to the world’s largest Dark Sky Reserve, the Aoraki Mackenzie Dark Sky Reserve. I camped there many years ago and the sky was simply incredible. You could see satellites clearly or stars that moved across the sky really fast that they had to be close to Earth. I even witnessed a comet or some kind of celestial object with a trail. Where I live is not so clear, but relatively speaking the skies are still clear with little pollution. Before I go to bed, I sometimes go outside and look at the sky and have seen many satellites and once I believe I witnessed what can only be the ISS. When I checked it out on a website it was apparently crossing our skies and I think I read about it passing this way in a news site too. It moved like a man made satellite, but was bigger than any satellite I had seen.. What are these things in the Flat Earth model. Stars that move quickly but not randomly or all over the place like wandering stars.
Also, about two years ago, my neighbour brought over his telescope one clear night during a crescent moon. He showed the kids the view too. You could clearly see the craters of the moon because the crescent moon reflected light so that the edges of the craters inside the crescent lit up where the light met the darkness. We tried it with a full moon another night and it wasn’t so clear because light wasn’t lighting up the edge of the craters as much for some reason. I now own this telescope as he sold it to me. I have used it myself only once during a blood moon. From what I have seen, the moon doesn’t look like a lamp of some kind to me and more like a circular rock with light bouncing of the surface and lighting up the edges of many craters on its surface. I can’t vouch for the 3D aspect of the moon because we humans basically see in 2D, and we obviously only see the same face anyway.
April 27, 2018 at 5:32 pm#822772
Proclaimer
Participant
Mike, why would the heavens be so big?
Because God creates worlds not only one world. He also has myriad of angels.It is said that we can never explore the universe because we would need to travel faster than light, way faster in fact, and anything with mass cannot break the light speed barrier. But spirit beings do not have physical mass, thus the universe is perhaps a place of exploration for angels, who knows.
Think about this, we have eternal life, so that is an eternity to explore the wonders of God and always giving him glory for his eternal nature and magnificence. How do we not know that angels explore the universe witnessing sunsets on moons from planets in other galaxies. How do you not know that the heavens are actual galaxies. How do we not know that God has or hasn’t created other worlds of beings? The Bible does not rule any of this out. I am sure the huge universe will make sense to us all in time. However, we currently see through a glass darkly so to speak and I do think about the Devil being imprisoned to this Earth for a time with no access to heaven. Further, there are plenty of NDEs that describe travelling through space. There is so much more to our experience than we can ever imagine right now. Scripture says much of it has not even entered our heart. But I can tell you this, we are the sons of the Most High God. He will not hold much back from us, just everything in its season.
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
Notice that the word ‘ages’ means ‘worlds’. The Bible doesn’t discount worlds even if there is more than one world in the history of this earth.
April 27, 2018 at 5:42 pm#822773
Proclaimer
Participant
Your right Mike, there are too many points here to answer them all. I have seen some of the videos you have posted and I have also seen videos that attempt to debunk some of these points. I have kept these in my own heart and mind and not spoke about them to any great depth. Right now, I feel that most of the points can be debunked, but would love to know for sure if the photo I took is suppose to be impossible given the measurements of the heliocentric model. I know the debunk video I posted had some info on the errors that Flat Earthers make when saying Toronto is too far away etc.
Reminds me of the Moon Conspiracy. When you first see the points being made, it does get you thinking. But after a couple of good debunk videos, they seem to sufficiently explain the misconceptions people have. One of those points for example is perspective, Multiple shadows to be honest do look like train tracks as they go into the distance. They do not really appear parallel due to perspective. The other thing to consider which is not often mentioned is from the perspective of the moon, there are two lights,, the sun and the Earth. I imagine light of the Earth could help create shadows going in a different direction.
April 27, 2018 at 7:06 pm#822774
Proclaimer
Participant
The math can be wrong and the God who created the solar system must be amazing
So, before you bring up another heliocentric “proof”, why not first consider why we can all see things in the distance that would be impossible to see if the earth really was a ball 25,000 miles in circumference? Or how we can see the top of the moon eclipsed, while the bottom is still bright? Or why we can see a full moon in the daytime? Or why we can see an eclipse when the sun and the moon are both in the sky? Or how Jesus must have been mistaken when he said the stars will fall to the earth – since not even one single star could get anywhere close to the earth without disintegrating it? Or how the Bible was wrong when it said Joshua commanded the sun and moon to stand still in the sky – since he really commanded the earth and moon to both stop rotating and orbiting?
Like I said before. The math cannot be correct and there was a thing about that in the debunk video talking about Flat Earthers fudging the numbers or innocently make incorrect calculations based on a misconception about how far you can actually see. I do not know the math and am not in a position to say whether the formula is correct or not. But it seems obvious to me that if it were all incorrect, that there would be a ton of scientists and mathematicians all over this and not just now, but should have already happened decades ago.
For me, God doesn’t lose if the Universe is as science is showing in the telescopes and through math which worked out Black holes and hte like even before observation. If we live on a Flat Earth, then it seems preposterous that all these people are keeping the conspiracy against it alive and for what. Imagine the resources needed to keep people from the Flat Earth theory. You would need the Antarctic Department, Math Department, Science Department, The Sky Police, the Propaganda Police, the Telescope Iron Dome Technical Department, etc. But why would you want to throw such resources at this anyway. Millions or billions believe in God despite the heliocentric model.Surely it is time to give up for this conspiracy and throw the money at Evolution or a fake ALien invasion. That would have a better result for them. Aliens invade, and tell us they created us from their DNA millions of years ago.
April 27, 2018 at 7:18 pm#822775
Proclaimer
Participant
Questioning all reality and not just the universe’s structure
I have spent a while now studying Quantum Physics and this puts all our observations in question regarding what the physical realm really is. Many think the universe actually exists as a physical thing and consciousness was created inside this reality, when in actual fact, consciousness is what makes the universe possible and consciousness is all perspective. So yes, the Earth is flat from our perspective we already know that. When we look through telescopes we see a larger construct containing planets, stars, galaxies, etc. But all this is with perception using a tiny part of the almost infinite or infinite spectrum. What happens when we die? NDE patients often describe a whole host of other stuff that was not visible when you had your virtual reality suit on, (body). Think about that for a moment. Your body is like a virtual reality suit. The gloves (hands) are for touch, the visor for seeing the world, and the headphones for hearing. I can interact in a virtual world and react according to what is in that world. When you watch me play,I am making illogical movements to your perspective. The virtual reality game is feeding you data as a reality. The universe you perceive is like that. It is all data that you decode. Run with this for a moment.
If I create a 3D game where you are on Earth but get to travel to another planet, then I will create essentially a flat world for you to run around in. But if you jump in a spaceship, then the perspective changes. You will see the overall shape that you were not able to detect. Now back to our reality. If you walk down the street iyou are walking non essentially a flat plain with varying shapes. When you take a ride in a spaceship, you will see globes either stars or planets. Travel at light speed and it looks different again. The dimension of time is altered and your future and past is not aligned with others who are not travelling with your speed. This is what science has taught us over the centuries. Not that the world is flat, but that reality is subjective and created by your brain. Is Mars really a spherical rock or does your mind create this picture to make sense of the data that is streaming into your brain as electromagnetic waves. Think of the movie the Matrix. A created world that we interact with as reality. Yes, we live in a Matrix. ALl perspectives are valid and no two persons will get the exact same perspective. This is where Quantum Physics is leading us. I know this is diverging from the subject somewhat, but if you have the time, check out this experiment. It has Physicist bamboozled as to what this means. But others say it is easy to explain. Consciousness creates the reality not the other way round. When you realise that, then it sort of nullifies the friction between different ways we preceive the world. They can all be true, but that depends on the position, speed, sensory inputs. and data you are getting.
This experiment no matter how complex you make it, always remains the same. Absolutely mind boggling.
April 27, 2018 at 8:42 pm#822781
Proclaimer
Participant
Not expecting an answer to everything here, but really is this just another fake video financed by the society responsible for hiding the Flat Earth.
April 27, 2018 at 10:15 pm#822788
Proclaimer
Participant
@nickhassan, you know the Earth is sphere because what?
Scientific instrumentation? Photos? Space rockets?
You know the Earth is sphere because it is logical to assume it is due to the weighty amount of evidence from many different fields, the weightly evidence for the continent of Antarctica, and for other reasons right?
But here’s the thing Nick, do you not frown upon logic? Thus, you need to show me the revelation of God that proves to you the Earth is sphere because logic is not an option for you going by other discussions we have had on the subject. Here are three of your quotes on the evils or pitfalls of logic:
Hi,
Logic is the boast of the Greeks.
But it cannot read the spiritual words.
Hi KW,
Trust in the understanding of man is the problem.
Prov 3.5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and do not lean on your own understanding
Hi KW,
You assume you have the a Spirit but you rely on logic and inference.
Why is this?
So why is the Earth a sphere Nick? Because you burnt the logic bridge down for yourself, I look forward to why you know the Earth is a sphere by revelation and leading of the Spirit. The ball is in your court now.
April 28, 2018 at 6:28 am#822794
NickHassan
Participant
Hi T8,
How is logic involved in turning water into wine? Walking on water?
Mixing dust with spittle and applying it to the eyes of a blind man so that he can see?

The heavens declare the glory of God.ps 19
Observers record their witness and gather other witnesses.
Knowledge does increase and those of simple faith receive such witness.

But the vanity of men lurks near every revelation of the beauty and harmony and order revealed in the creation of our God.

April 28, 2018 at 6:31 am#822795
GeneBalthrop
Participant
To all….easy proof that the world is round, even if you disbelieve the countless pictures that have been taken from space. Do the math, the earth is 24,000 miles in cerconference, now draw a “tangent” line from any point, call that the center point where it touches the earth, no mesure our from the tuch point one mile do the pathagram you know, the side opposite a right triangle equals the sum of the other sides. This will show you the drop of the surface m now now go say two miles out from the tangent line make another fight angle to earth, do the mathe again, then go another mile along the tangent line, do another right angel, and the math again.
Here is what you should get, at one mile a 2ft drop from tuch point, at 2 miles a 4ft drop and at 3miles out a 6ft drop aprox.
Can’t you see the further out the tangent line the greater the drop and is directly perportional to the distance from the start point.
This has be actually done with a laser and proven to be exactly as the math shows. Three miles out from the laser start point the drop is 6ft, a mile is 5280 ft so for every 5280 feet straight out you will drop 2 foot .
The earth is 126,720,00. Feet around and every 2,640 feet you drop one foot from where you started on a straight line.
There you go do the math.
Peace and love to you all and yours. ……gene
April 28, 2018 at 5:10 pm#822802
mikeboll64
Blocked
T8, you up right now? Go take a picture of the sun. Nothing fancy or zoomed, just a simple photo or two of the sun in your part of the sky. I’m going to take a quick shot of the almost full moon in my part of the sky. Post your photo, and I’ll post mine tomorrow. It’s 10:10 in Arizona right now.
April 28, 2018 at 11:57 pm#822807
AndrewAD
Participant
“If we live on a Flat Earth, then it seems preposterous that all these people are keeping the conspiracy against it alive and for what. Imagine the resources needed to keep people from the Flat Earth theory. You would need the Antarctic Department, Math Department, Science Department, The Sky Police, the Propaganda Police, the Telescope Iron Dome Technical Department, etc”
Yes it seems much more likely that the biblical authors were simply relating in terms of the universe as they understood it at their own time, and what’s wrong with that?
April 29, 2018 at 2:12 am#822808
GeneBalthrop
Participant
AndrewAD…..Not only can you prove it yourself, by watching a ship going out to sea, but the math proves it also and as you say, what a cover up job would that be, and for what reason would anyone ever want to?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
April 29, 2018 at 5:13 am#822810
mikeboll64
Blocked
Gene: To all….easy proof that the world is round, even if you disbelieve the countless pictures that have been taken from space.
You’re really going to be blown away when you find out the truth about those “countless pictures that have been taken from space”. I’ve already given you a teaser of what’s to come with that video I slapped together just for you.
Did you even watch it? Anyway, there will be a whole lot more “outer space” stuff to come, but like I told T8, this subject encompasses so many things that the only way to get anywhere is to take it one step at a time. Right now we’re still working on how we all came to know that the earth is an insignificant spinning ball in an endless universe full of trillions of others just like it – BEFORE the 1970’s and “space travel”.
Gene: Do the math… at one mile a 2ft drop from tuch point, at 2 miles a 4ft drop and at 3miles out a 6ft drop aprox.
You’ve described a formula to make a continuous slanted line, not a ball or a sphere. Here’s the formula explained by someone who believes the earth is a ball…
The Earth has a radius of approximately 3965 miles. Using the Pythagorean theorem, that calculates to an average curvature of 7.98 inches per mile or approximately 8 inches per mile (squared). The distance to the horizon in miles from height of an observer is approximately equal to 1.23 times the square root of the height in feet. For example 1.23 times the square root of 8 divided by 12 equals 1 mile. Inversely given the horizon distance in miles, the height in feet required to be visible equals the distance in miles squared divided by 1.513. The second example above concerning the Moon rising over a distant range also requires some topographic map calculations using the tan trigonometric function. Thus if a peak rises up 1844 feet at a distance of 10.0 miles or 52,800 feet, it will form an angle of 2 degrees with a theoretical flat horizon. The tan is 1844/52800=0.0349 or 2 degrees. However due to the Earth’s curvature, it would appear as though it was only 1778 feet tall with the lowest 66 feet below the horizon.
http://www.davidsenesac.com/Information/line_of_sight.html
Notice that he says, “however DUE TO EARTH’S CURVATURE...” This guy is not a flat earther, Gene. He is just explaining why the formula for figuring out curvature on a ball with a radius of 3965 miles is 7.98 inches per mile squared.
Here’s a more detailed explanation of the math involved, from the question-answering site Quora…
Question: How many feet per mile does the earth curve down from where you stand?

Answer: You can use Pythagorean’s theorem. The sum of the squares of the sides of a right triangle is equal to the square of the hypotenuse.
The radius of the earth is one side of the triangle. (~4000 miles)
The distance away from where you are standing is the other side.
The hypotonuse tells you how far that point would have to be from the earths center to stay horizontal from you.
Then subtract 4000 from the hypotonuse, and that gives you how far up from the surface that point is (or how much the earth dropped).
For example, calculate 1 mile out.
4000^2 + 1^2 = 16000001
Square root of 16000001 is 4000.000125
So 1 mile out is 4000.000125 miles from the center of the earth.
Subtract 4000, and you get a drop of .000125 miles
5028 feet per mile times .000125 yeilds about half a foot drop.

Now, the important bit here is it is NOT linear. The drop isn’t so many feet per mile away. It changes because you are drawing a straight horizontal line, but the earth drops as a circle. So it wont be a constant linear feet dropped per mile away.

At 1 miles, the drop is .6 foot.
At 5 miles, the drop is 15 feet.
At 10 miles, the drop is 63 feet
At 15 miles, the drop is 141 feet.

The other thing to keep in mind is how far above the surface you are standing when you look out to the horizon. The above calculations are based on the idea that your eyeball is right on the surface. If you are 6 feet tall and standing when you look, the drop is the same, but you can see farther because you are higher.
- https://www.quora.com/How-many-feet-per-mile-does-the-earth-curve-down-from-where-you-stand
Do you see the bolded part? You can’t use a linear calculation – like 2 feet per mile – on a circle. At five miles, you get 10 feet with your formula, when it’s really 15. At 10 miles, you get 20 feet, when it’s really 63. At 15 miles, you get 30 feet, when it’s really 141. Your formula just makes a constant decline – not a circle.
Here’s a visual aide from that same site…
April 29, 2018 at 5:38 am#822811
mikeboll64
Blocked
T8: “…to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
Notice that the word ‘ages’ means ‘worlds’.
Does it? How do we know that? I’m about to post some excerpts from Wiki’s article on Biblical Cosmology. You’ll notice that they say the OT word translated as “heavens” in many English bibles could just be “heaven” – sort of like the plural word “elohim” could mean either more than one god, or just one god. It’s commonly called the “plural of majesty”, but is better identified as a “plural of intensity”, since the intensified thing isn’t majestic in all cases. I know you’re familiar with the concept, but you can read more about it here if you’re interested…

https://www.google.com/search?q=hebrew+plural+of+intensity&oq=Hebrew+plural+of+inten&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0.5955j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
April 29, 2018 at 6:24 am#822812
mikeboll64
Blocked
T8: The math cannot be correct and there was a thing about that in the debunk video talking about Flat Earthers fudging the numbers or innocently make incorrect calculations based on a misconception about how far you can actually see. I do not know the math and am not in a position to say whether the formula is correct or not. But it seems obvious to me that if it were all incorrect, that there would be a ton of scientists and mathematicians all over this and not just now, but should have already happened decades ago.
Read my last post to Gene. Click on that Quora link I gave him, and read the answers. It seems evident to me that a couple of those people, in the course of calculating and explaining the math to the person who posed the question had an AHA! moment of their own. Like they were saying, “Okay, here’s the mathematics of calculating the arc of a circle… Wait a minute… The math says X amount should be hidden at X distance, and I know I’ve seen things farther away than that! Hmm…”
So could it be that millions of people just like you and I have never considered that we shouldn’t be able to see as much of the mountains that we saw in our photos? Could it be that for our whole lives, we just never considered how it would be impossible to see a full moon in the daytime according to the heliocentric model? Could it be that we’ve all just taken the words “science says” for granted, and just assumed that there must already be some scientific explanation for this odd anomaly we were seeing? I can’t speak for you, but I know that is the case for me. I never thought about things I shouldn’t be seeing in the distance until about 5 months ago when I first began to look into this subject. I never thought about how the shadow eclipsing the moon can’t possibly be caused by the earth before. I just never gave it a second thought, because I was taught from a very young age that if “science says” this or that, the case is settled.
Take Gene and you with your claims that laser experiments have already proven a 6 drop at 3 miles. Have they really? Have either of you ever done the experiment for yourselves? Because hundreds of citizen-scientists are starting to do just that, and they’ve been posting their results on YouTube for anyone to see. I already linked one for you last week. Did you watch it? What is your explanation for why the guy could see, not only the laser, but the flashlight his wife had sitting on the ground more than 7 miles away? All you have to do is open your eyes to see that much of what we’ve been told about our world is flat out lies.
And you keep bringing up the Metabunk guy saying how flat earthers are “doing it wrong”. But you’ll notice the Metabunk guy’s earth curvature calculator is based on the very same Pythagorean theorem, and has the same “8 inches per mile squared” results as all the other ones. It can be no other way, since that IS the ONLY curvature formula there can be for a ball 25,000 miles in circumference. Think it out, man. It’s like you’re saying one person can use pi (3.14) to determine the circumference of a circle, and another person can use 4.25, while still another uses 6.78. There can only be one ratio between the radius and circumference of a circle. People can’t just say they don’t like the results pi gives a certain group, and conclude that this particular group is “doing it wrong”. They can’t just up and claim that pi is all of a sudden wrong because the results hurt their worldview, and come up with their own version of pi.
I told you I would address Mick West’s Metabunk calculator, and I will. I’m working up to it. There is a method to the madness. But just so you know for now that his calculator starts with the same mathematically sound curvature formula, here is a comparison with the same inputs from his and two other ones anyone can access online…

The top one is from the guy you mentioned, who says we’re “doing it wrong”. Notice how 30 miles is 600 feet of drop on his calculator. Now notice that 30 miles is also 600 feet of drop on the other two. And 30 miles will be 600 feet of drop on any earth curve calculator you can find online. And guess what? 30 miles will also result in 600 feet of drop with the “8 inches per mile squared” formula that you guys keep resisting.
30 x 30 = 900 900 x 8 inches = 7200 inches 7200 inches divided by 12 = 600 feet

So can we all just please accept this irrefutable formula and move on?

April 29, 2018 at 8:11 am#822819
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Mike, ….measurements very at different points because the earth is not “perficly” round, it flexes as the moons gravity pull a bulge on the earth, proof, the tides go out and back in, we can even predict them. That changes the earths shape constantly. But the perfect ball theory is correct, what i did was use the pathagram theram “the square of a hypotenous of a right triangle equals to the sum of the other two sides” so inorder to get the hypotenous you must draw a “straight” line from the end of the tangent line where ever you decide to measure it, 90 degrees to the touch point, then straight back to the start point of the tangent line and as you keep moving out ont tangent line the right angle line will keep getting longer if it is a circle. So you must ignor the actual curvature and replace it with a straight line which will yield the drop of the curve. This is both accurate and used every day in engineering, the only vaiant is the earth is not “perfectly” round because of the moons influence as moves around it.
And by the way i used a 24000 mile circumference not exactly what they used. But the measurements will very at different points because the earth does flex, so “exact” figures are hard to be the same at different points,
But pictures of a spinning earth don’t from space do not lie brother, and we have literally thousands of them, there is no conspiracy going on Mike. We definitely live on a very giant sphere. IMO
By the way the best example to a ship going out straight from a person m why because the land mass surfface varies in almost any direction you go. Water is the best because it does seek its own lever, that is why the tides go in and at at the earths variances.
peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
April 29, 2018 at 11:10 am#822826
mikeboll64
Blocked
Gene, don’t take offense, but everything you said in that last post is DEMONSTRABLY wrong. Your calculations are demonstrably wrong. Your idea that the moon’s gravity pulls on the earth and affects the tides is demonstrably wrong. The idea that ships go over a curved horizon is demonstrably wrong. And the idea that you have ever seen an actual photograph or video from space is demonstrably wrong. But let’s just focus on your curvature calculation… Are you seriously going to tell me that all the ball earth believing mathematicians in the world are wrong about how to use the Pythagorean Theorem to figure curvature on a ball, and only Gene Balthrop knows the real formula? There are no two ways about the formula, Gene. Just like there is no way around pi being 3.14, and no way around 2+2 equaling 4. It just is, whether or not you care to accept it. And I’ll repeat: This formula didn’t come from any flat earther, since we don’t believe there’s a curvature to be measured in the first place. The formula comes from those who believe the earth is a ball 25,000 miles in circumference.
You can keep arguing, but nothing will change. You will just continue to be wrong.
And to make matters worse, the formula is based on a 25,000 mile circumference – like directly around the equator. But what if we measured farther up the ball where it’s no longer 25,000 miles?
The curvature formula is based on the red line in the image above. But that skyline of Chicago photo I showed a while back was taken from east to west (Michigan to Illinois) where the yellow line is on the image. Up there, the curvature will be even greater, because the circumference of that part of the ball is smaller. So instead of 8 inches per mile squared, perhaps we’re talking 10-12 inches per mile squared – making that Chicago skyline photo even more impossible than it already was.
April 29, 2018 at 11:19 am#822828
NickHassan
Participant
Hi Mike,
Is your science better than his science?
A close call I would say.
April 29, 2018 at 11:45 am#822829
mikeboll64
Blocked
Okay, I ended the first part of the ball earth history lesson with Eratosthenes concluding that the differences in shadows cast in different wells was due the the earth being curved. You’ll recall that the same effect has been demonstrated to occur on a flat surface, and that even Neil DeGrasse Tyson admits as much. So all in all, Eratosthenes’ experiment couldn’t demonstrate the shape of the earth one way or the other. Next up…
Ptolemaic system, mathematical model of the universe formulated by the Alexandrian astronomer and mathematician Ptolemy about AD 150 and recorded by him in his Almagest and Planetary Hypotheses. The Ptolemaic system is a geocentric cosmology; that is, it starts by assuming that the Earth is stationary and at the centre of the universe. The “natural” expectation for ancient societies was that the heavenly bodies (Sun, Moon, planets, and stars) must travel in uniform motion along the most “perfect” path possible, a circle. However, the paths of the Sun, Moon, and planets as observed from the Earth are not circular. Ptolemy’s model explained this “imperfection” by postulating that the apparently irregular movements were a combination of several regular circular motions seen in perspective from a stationary Earth. The principles of this model were known to earlier Greek scientists, including the mathematician Hipparchus (c. 150 BC), but they culminated in an accurate predictive model with Ptolemy. The resulting Ptolemaic system persisted, with minor adjustments, until the Earth was displaced from the centre of the universe in the 16th and 17th centuries by the Copernican system and by Kepler’s laws of planetary motion.

https://www.britannica.com/science/Ptolemaic-system

This might be a good place to interject that Ptolemy’s cosmology was basically the same as Biblical cosmology…
The ancient Israelites envisaged a universe made up of a flat disc-shaped earth floating on water, heaven above, underworld below. … The Hebrew Bible depicted a three-part world, with the heavens (shamayim) above, earth (eres) in the middle, and the underworld (sheol) below.
The three-part world of heavens, earth and underworld floated in Tehom, the mythological cosmic ocean, which covered the earth until God created the firmament to divide it into upper and lower portions and reveal the dry land;^[23] the world has been protected from the cosmic ocean ever since by the solid dome of the firmament.
In the Old Testament the word shamayim represented both the sky/atmosphere, and the dwelling place of God.^[30] The raqia or firmament – the visible sky – was a solid inverted bowl over the earth, coloured blue from the heavenly ocean above it.
In the Old Testament period, the earth was most commonly thought of as a flat disc floating on water.^[17] The concept was apparently quite similar to that depicted in a Babylonian world-map from about 600 BCE: a single circular continent bounded by a circular sea,^[50] and beyond the sea a number of equally spaced triangles called nagu, “distant regions”, apparently islands although possibly mountains.^[51]
The Old Testament likewise locates islands alongside the earth; (Psalm 97:1) these are the “ends of the earth” according to Isaiah 41:5, the extreme edge of Job’s circular horizon (Job 26:10) where the vault of heaven is supported on mountains.^[52] Other OT passages suggest that the sky rests on pillars (Psalm 75:3, 1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6), on foundations (Psalms 18:7 and 82:5), or on “supports” (Psalm 104:5),^[53] while the Book of Jobimagines the cosmos as a vast tent, with the earth as its floor and the sky as the tent itself; from the edges of the sky God hangs the earth over “nothing”, meaning the vast Ocean, securely supported by being tied to the sky (Job 26:7).^[54]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_cosmology
- “possibly mountains“, ie: possibly a huge ice wall that surrounds the entire disk.
April 29, 2018 at 11:54 am#822832
mikeboll64
Blocked
Nick: Hi Mike,
Is your science better than his science?
A close call I would say.
And upon what observational scientific evidence, God-given logic, or spiritual revelation do you base your conclusion of it being a “close call”?
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