Jesus is either one or the other, but not both

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December 16, 2020 at 4:53 pm#868234
Proclaimer
Participant
For Yahweh your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the awesome, who doesn’t respect persons, nor takes reward.
And HE made Jesus Lord over his creation.
December 16, 2020 at 4:54 pm#868235
Proclaimer
Participant
I didn’t make a statement, just provided the Word of God. Preconceived notions are interesting.
Just to be clear, Mr Nobody, my posts were not aimed at you per se, but anyone who is part of the discussion here that believes in the Trinity or Binity doctrines. I do not even know what you believe as you have mostly quoted scripture at this point. Usually if I aim a post at someone, I say who it is at the beginning of the post. Most of the time I do not do that however as I am already in discussion with one or more people and they know full well who it was for.
Just clearing things up in case you thought I was replying to you.
Welcome BTW 🙂
December 16, 2020 at 6:05 pm#868236
Lightenup
Participant
Proclaimer,
Are any of these verses in your list?
Lu 2:11 For there is born to you this day a deliverer, who is the Lord Jehovah Messiah, in
the city of David
Joh 8:11 And she said: No man, Lord Jehovah. And Jesus said: Neither do I condemn thee.
Go thou, and henceforth sin no more.
Ac 2:36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know, assuredly, that God hath made that
Jesus whom ye crucified, to be Lord Jehovah and Messiah.
Ac 2:38 Simon said to them: Repent, and be baptized every one of you, in the name of the
Lord Jehovah Jesus, for the remission of sins; so that ye may receive the gift of the
Holy Spirit.
Ac 9:27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the legates, and related to them how
the Lord Jehovah appeared to him in the way, and how he conversed with him; and
how, in Damascus, he had discoursed openly in the name of Jesus.
Ac 10:36 For this is the word, which he sent to the sons of Israel, announcing to them peace
and rest by Jesus Messiah, He is Lord Jehovah of all;
Ro 14:9 Moreover, for this cause Messiah died, and revived, and arose; that he might be
Lord Jehovah of the dead and of the living.
Ro 14:14 I know indeed, and am persuaded by the Lord Jehovah Jesus, that there is
nothing which is unclean in itself; but to him who thinketh any thing to be unclean, to
him only it is defiled.
1Co 8:6 yet to us, on our part, there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and
we in him; and one Lord Jehovah, Jesus the Messiah, by whom are all things, and
we also by him.
1Co 11:27 He therefore, who eateth of the bread of the Lord Jehovah, and drinketh of his
cup, and is not worthy of it, is guilty of the blood of the Lord Jehovah, and of his
body.
1Co 11:29 for, whoever eateth and drinketh of it, while he is unworthy, eateth and drinketh
condemnation on himself, by not discerning the body of the Lord Jehovah.
1Co 12:3 I therefore inform you, that there is no man, that speaketh by the Spirit of God,
who saith that Jesus is accursed: neither can a man say that Jesus is the Lord
Jehovah, except by the Holy Spirit.
1Co 15:47 The first man was of dust from the earth; the second man was the Lord Jehovah
from heaven.
Php 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus the Messiah is the Lord Jehovah,
to the glory of God his Father.
Col 3:24 and know ye, that from our Lord ye will receive a recompense as the inheritance;
for ye serve the Lord Jehovah the Messiah.
1Pe 3:15 but sanctify the Lord Jehovah the Messiah, in your hearts. And be ye ready for a
vindication, before every one who demandeth of you an account of the hope of your
faith,
Re 22:20 ¶ He who testifieth these things, saith: Yes, I come quickly. Amen. Come, Lord
Jehovah Jesus!
LU
December 16, 2020 at 7:23 pm#868237
Proclaimer
Participant
The Tetragrammaton (/ˌtɛtrəˈɡræmətɒn/) or Tetragram (from Greek τετραγράμματον, meaning “[consisting of] four letters”) is the four-letter Hebrew word יהוה‎ (transliterated as YHWH), the name of the biblical God of Israel.
The four letters, read from right to left, are yodh, he, waw, and he.
While there is no consensus about the structure and etymology of the name, the form Yahweh is now accepted almost universally.
The books of the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible except Esther, Ecclesiastes, and (with a possible instance in verse 8:6) the Song of Songs contain this Hebrew name.
Observant Jews and those who follow Talmudic Jewish traditions do not pronounce יהוה‎ nor do they read aloud proposed transcription forms such as Yahweh or Yehovah; instead they replace it with a different term, whether in addressing or referring to the God of Israel. Common substitutions in Hebrew are Adonai (“My Lord”), HaShem (“The Name”) and hakadosh baruch hu (“The Holy One, Blessed Be He”).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton
December 16, 2020 at 8:23 pm#868238
Proclaimer
Participant
Be like Peter. He spoke the truth about who Jesus is because the Father revealed the truth to him
Matthew 16:13-17
13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,
“Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
December 16, 2020 at 11:14 pm#868240
Nobody_Special
Participant
But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
Does the word “theos” in the above verse apply to the Father or to the Son?
What if the sceptre is Jesus’s everlasting Kingdom?
Remember the old testament story (Pharoah? Where the king basically says, I will be king, in terms of the throne (in name only), I have given you the power and authority over the kingdom)

The government will be upon His shoulders after all!

P.s. I’m a noob. Thanks for welcoming me. Greetings y’all
December 16, 2020 at 11:37 pm#868241
Nobody_Special
Participant
@proclaimer, thanks, and greetings

. Everyone baptised into the body of Christ has drank of His Spirit, and are one body with the Lord.
Regardless of man’s feeble attempt at comprehending the magnitude and enormity of God. The spirit searches the deep things of God. So man-made doctrinal interpretations and divisions are not real or eternal, but temporary. Knowledge puffs up, agape builds up. I must not be wise in my own conceits.

I have been influenced by many and desire to be rebuked with Truth.
Remember the simplicity in Christ.

And HE made Jesus Lord over his creation
I don’t read Greek, Acts 2:36
[36]Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
December 17, 2020 at 3:50 am#868242
GeneBalthrop
Participant
To all…..the word lord is in Hebrew (adoni ) meaning any ruler or magistrate of anykind.
The word LORD in hebrew is (adonai) meaning the Almighty GOD.
“the LORD (adonai, Almighty God ) said unto my lord (adoni, a human ruler) sit on my right, until I (adonai, Almighty God) make your enimies your foot stool.”
Those two WORDS FOR LORD ARE NOT THE SAME IN THE HEBREW TEXT, as any true scholar of hebrew will tell you. Jesus is not Almighty GOD, he is a lord (a human ruler, judge, or magistrate) .
Why not just believe what Jesus himself said, “this is life, that they might know “YOU” the “ONLY” true GOD.
“YOU”……someone other then the one speaking.
“THE “ONLY”…..means no one else.
“TRUE” GOD…….the sum of those word means, “THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, and it was not the one speaking. (JESUS)
We either believe what Jesus himself said or not, it’s just that simple. Jesus knew full well he was not GOD, he never tried to be a God either. He worshipped and obeyed God the Father of all creation, exactly as we should also.
Nobody-special. …….Surely, your not saying that we should not stand up against false teachers are you? Welcome to heaven net.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

December 17, 2020 at 10:37 am#868243
Lightenup
Participant
Hi Nobody_Special,
You asked:
What if the sceptre is Jesus’s everlasting Kingdom?
Do you mean to say “is” here or “is of?”
LU
December 17, 2020 at 10:56 am#868244
Lightenup
Participant
Peter rightly says, regarding who Jesus is, “You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.”
Is that all Jesus is? What are other names and descriptions for the Son of the Living God?
I’ll start with these:
Yahweh our Righteousness.
Lord of lords.
Lord of all.
The Way, the Truth, and the Life.
The Resurrection and the Life.
The Giver of eternal life.
Yahweh who, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the works of His hands.
Yahweh is two persons who are One, the Father and the Son.
LU

December 17, 2020 at 12:29 pm#868245
carmel
Participant
Hi, Gene,
YOU: Yes Jesus said “the Father is in me”,
but that never made him the Father that was “IN” him.
ME: Gene,the above is your CARNAL UNDERSTANDING I’M AFRAID!
NOW READ AND CHEW THE WORDS PLEASE:
John 14:7 If you had known ME,
you would
WITHOUT A DOUBT
have known my Father also:
and from henceforth you shall know him,
and you have seen him.
Genne IN THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE JESUS SIMPLY MADE IT
EMPHATICALLY CLEAR THAT
THERE ISN’T A SINGLE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN THE FATHER AND JESUS!
THEY ARE IDENTICALLY THE SAME!
ANSWER Gene:
ARE YOU IN THE POSITION TO EXPLAIN WHAT JESUS MEANT???

Col 2:9….For “IN” him, “dwells” all the fullness of the Godhead bodily “.
YOU: The exact same thing applies to ALL WHO HAS THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLING “IN” THEM.
PURE LIES!
NO ONE ON EARTH FROM ADAM’S SIN AND TILL THE END OF THE WORLD COULD EVER BE IN ANY WAY
DIRECTLY
THE PHYSICAL CARRIER OF THE GODHEAD!
EXPLAIN Gene, HOW HUMANS COULD HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLING “IN” THEM PLEASE.
I’M WAITING TO HEAR YOUR ?????
Gene, HUMANS IN ADAM
REJECTED GOD AND DIED!
THEY ARE BORN DEAD! IF YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS!
THEY ARE MORTAL CREATURES ON THEIR CONCEPTION!
WHETHER THEY WANT IT OR NOT,
THEY MUST AND HAD TO DIE!
JESUS, THE SECOND ADAM,
WAS NOT BORN MORTAL!
IN THE SAME WAY
ADAM WAS ALSO CREATED NOT MORTAL.
JESUS, HE HIMSELF OPTED TO COME AND DIE FOR THE HUMAN CAUSE ON EARTH! HE, ONLY HE HIMSELF HAD CONTROL OVER HIS OWN LIFE NO ONE COULD KILL JESUS IN ANY WAY UNLESS HE PERMITTED IT.
John:19:17 Therefore doth the Father love me: because
I lay down my life,
that I may take it again.
18No man taketh it away from me:
but I lay it down of myself,
and I have power to lay it down:
and I have power to take it up again.
This commandment have I received of my Father.
Luke 4:28And all they in the synagogue, hearing these things, were filled with anger. 29And they rose up and thrust him out of the city; and they brought him to the brow of the hill, whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
30But he passing through the midst of them, went his way.
THEY SIMPLY COULD NOT GET HOLD OF HIM ANYMORE!
YOU: “know you not that your body “IS” the temple of GOD”?  here are some scriptures that show this.
ME : ALL THAT IN THE NEXT POST TO EXPOSE YOUR LIES!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

December 17, 2020 at 4:26 pm#868246
Ed J
Participant
The Tetragrammaton (/ˌtɛtrəˈɡræmətɒn/) or Tetragram (from Greek τετραγράμματον, meaning “[consisting of] four letters”) is the four-letter Hebrew word יהוה‎ (transliterated as YHWH), the name of the biblical God of Israel.
Sorry, but Hebrew has no “W” sound. Stop perpetuating lies!
YHVH is God’s name (יהוה) transliterated into English
December 17, 2020 at 4:38 pm#868248
Lightenup
Participant
Thanks Ed’s, I keep forgetting that.
LU
December 17, 2020 at 7:35 pm#868249
Nobody_Special
Participant
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Matthew 2:11
[11]And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
December 17, 2020 at 7:54 pm#868250
Nobody_Special
Participant
@ ed
τετραγράμματον
you know aleph and tov? The end looks like a tov to my gentile eyes.
…
@ gene
just rebuke gently with all authority, as Jesus did. Full of grace and truth.
…
@ LU
Yeah, it’s a half baked idea. If the righteous scepter is the person of Jesus, then the sceptre of the kingdom is… ?
If scepter means authority…
( Remember old testament, some woman touched the king’s rod /scepter /staff and he said, what you want? )
then the Righteous is Jesus, the scepter is the Word and Power*, so rule of the kingdom is the strength of the Word and the Power (authority) it yields
still authority in the name of. Still the power of God.
*Paul didn’t come in word only, but in word and in power. Also search “signs of an apostle”
Maybe developing the idea with the messiah the BRANCH .

December 17, 2020 at 9:25 pm#868258
Proclaimer
Participant
The worship argument doesn’t prove that Jesus is God
We are to worship God only right? And Jesus was worshipped right?
Correct.
But Jesus is never worshipped as God. That is the key. What we shouldn’t do is worship another as God but the Father. We worship Jesus as the Son of God. Likewise, King David was worshipped as the King of Israel.
Worship encompasses the words, honor, bowing down or prostrate toward, and declaring greatness.
If legitimately worshipping a person means they are God, then King David is God and so are other humans as you will find out.
We know the Father is worshipped as God
No need to find scriptures to support that statement.
The Son is worshipped as the Firstborn Son of God, King of the Jews, and the Lamb of God
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.”
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
“To him who sits on the throne AND to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Do you still say that Jesus is God because he is worshipped? Chew on this then.
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
December 18, 2020 at 4:08 am#868261
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Nobody-special……yes we are to bow our knee to Jesus , but remember the rest of the verse,  “to the glory of God”.  Notice it doesn’t say, to the glory of Jesus.
It is God the Father who has set Jesus as king , and we give glory for that very reason to him . The same thing applied to king David, those who bowed to him know he was God’s anointed King over Israel. They did not bow to him as their God, nor should we bow to Jesus as a God either. That is “idolatry “.
Most all of Christanity today bows and worships Jesus as their GOD, that is a sin.
Here is what God the Father told us………“you shall have no other God besides me”, you shall make no “image” of me in heaven above or earth beneath”
But false Christanity have taken “the man”, Jesus, who said he was a “Son of man” over 80 times in scriptures, and turned the “image” of him into a GOD.  By doing that they have turned the “image” of Jesus into a “man of sin”, 2ths2   the “man of sin” mentioned there is the “man” Jesus, that false Christanity has created . Which Jesus out of his own mouth will abolish or destory, that false “image” of him, at his return, Just as 2ths2 , shows him doing. Jesus is the “ONLY” MAN, who has ever taken a seat in the “true”, “temple of God” , and is being worshiped “now” as a God.
He that has ears let him hear.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

December 18, 2020 at 11:43 am#868268
carmel
Participant
HI Gene,
YOU: By doing that they have turned the “image” of  Jesus into a “man of sin”, 2ths2   the “man of sin” mentioned there is the “man” Jesus,
that false Christanity (ME: preached by Jodi, Gene,) has created .
Which Jesus out of his own mouth will abolish or destory, that false “image”  of him, at his return, Just as 2ths2 , shows him doing. Jesus is the “ONLY” MAN,  who has ever taken a seat in the “true”,  “temple of God” , and is being worshiped “now”
as a God.
ME: NOT AS
THE ONLY MANIFESTED
TRUE GOD ON EARTH!
He that has ears let him hear.
SCRIPTURE:
1John5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come:
and he hath given us understanding that we may know
the true God, and
may be in his true Son.
This is the true God and life eternal.

John17:6 I have manifested thy name
EXPLAIN, WHY AND HOW, JESUS MANIFESTED GOD’S NAME …?
to the men whom thou hast given me
out of the world.
EXPLAIN, WHY, WHO, and HOW OUT OF THE WORLD?
Thine they were, and to me thou gavest them;
EXPLAIN, WHY, WHO, AND HOW THEY WERE
GIVEN TO JESUS?
and they have kept thy word.
7Now they have known, that all things which thou hast given me, are from thee:
EXPLAIN, WHAT ALL THINGS FROM GOD, WHICH HAVE BEEN GIVEN
TO JESUS FROM GOD ARE?
8Because the words which thou gavest me, I have given to them; and they have received them,
and have known in very deed that I came out from thee,
EXPLAIN, HOW DID JESUS
COME OUT
FROM GOD THE FATHER?
and they have believed
that thou didst send me.
9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for
them
whom thou hast given me:
EXPLAIN, WHY AND WHOM ARE THEY THAT
GOD HAS GIVEN TO JESUS?
because they are YOURS
10 And all my things are YOURS, and YOURS are MINE;
EXPLAIN:
WHAT ALL GOD’S THINGS ARE and ALSO ARE
ALL JESUS’ THINGS, and vice versa?
and I am
GLORIFIED IN THEM.
EXPLAIN, HOW AND WHY IS
JESUS GLORIFIED
BOTH
IN ALL GOD’S THINGS and ALSO
IN ALL HIS THINGS?
NEVER MIND Gene!
DON’T BOTHER TO ANSWER ANY OF ALL THINGS MENTIONED ABOVE,
FIRST AS THEY ARE ALL
SPIRITUAL THINGS,
OF WHICH YOU ARE BLIND OF, and
WHICH CONTRADICT YOU AND
YOUR CARNAL MINDED INTELLIGENCE,
AND SECOND THEY ARE
ALL THINGS WHICH
CONFIRM THAT
JESUS IS GOD!!!
ANYHOW IF YOU FEEL YOURSELF IN THE POSITION TO EXPLAIN,
SIMPLY EXPLAIN HOW ANY OF ALL THINGS AS MENTIONED ABOVE,
CONFIRM NOT BOTH THAT
JESUS IS GOD, and to be
WORSHIPPED!!!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

December 18, 2020 at 7:34 pm#868272
Lightenup
Participant
Nobody_Special,
Heb 1:8
But unto the Son: “Your throne, O God, is to the age of the age, and the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
The Son is being referred to as “God” here, not a scepter.
LU
December 19, 2020 at 7:44 am#868276
Berean
Participant
To all
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace
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A dichotomy

Jesus is either the Son of God or is God.

If he is both, then he must be the Son of himself.

Be like Peter. He spoke the truth about who Jesus is because the Father revealed the truth to him

but that never made him the Father that was “IN” him.

John 14:7 If you had known ME,

WITHOUT A DOUBT

have known my Father also:

and you have seen him.

EMPHATICALLY CLEAR THAT

BETWEEN THE FATHER AND JESUS!

THEY ARE IDENTICALLY THE SAME!

PURE LIES!

DIRECTLY

THE PHYSICAL CARRIER OF THE GODHEAD!

I’M WAITING TO HEAR YOUR ?????

REJECTED GOD AND DIED!

THEY ARE MORTAL CREATURES ON THEIR CONCEPTION!

THEY MUST AND HAD TO DIE!

WAS NOT BORN MORTAL!

ADAM WAS ALSO CREATED NOT MORTAL.

I lay down my life,

that I may take it again.

18No man taketh it away from me:

but I lay it down of myself,

and I have power to lay it down:

and I have power to take it up again.

30But he passing through the midst of them, went his way.

THEY SIMPLY COULD NOT GET HOLD OF HIM ANYMORE!

The worship argument doesn’t prove that Jesus is God

as a God.

ME: NOT AS

THE ONLY MANIFESTED

TRUE GOD ON EARTH!

He that has ears let him hear.

1John5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come:

the true God, and

may be in his true Son.

This is the true God and life eternal.

John17:6 I have manifested thy name

GIVEN TO JESUS?

TO JESUS FROM GOD ARE?

COME OUT

FROM GOD THE FATHER?

them

whom thou hast given me:

GOD HAS GIVEN TO JESUS?

because they are YOURS

10 And all my things are YOURS, and YOURS are MINE;

WHAT ALL GOD’S THINGS ARE and ALSO ARE

ALL JESUS’ THINGS, and vice versa?

and I am

GLORIFIED IN THEM.

EXPLAIN, HOW AND WHY IS

JESUS GLORIFIED

BOTH

IN ALL GOD’S THINGS and ALSO

IN ALL HIS THINGS?

SPIRITUAL THINGS,

OF WHICH YOU ARE BLIND OF, and

YOUR CARNAL MINDED INTELLIGENCE,

ALL THINGS WHICH

CONFIRM THAT

JESUS IS GOD!!!

ANYHOW IF YOU FEEL YOURSELF IN THE POSITION TO EXPLAIN,

CONFIRM NOT BOTH THAT

JESUS IS GOD, and to be

WORSHIPPED!!!

To all

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

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