Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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April 4, 2020 at 4:26 pm#862165
Berean
Participant
Jodi
You
“I tried to make it clear that Jesus said he could do nothing of himself, he gave all the credit for what he was doing to God. ”
Me
It seems to me that all Christians recognize this.
YOU
If it is all God who consecrates himself to his work through Jesus by the anointing of the Spirit, then sending a pre-existing son makes absolutely no sense to me. Scripture tells me clearly that Jesus did not pre-exist, which makes it even more obvious.
Me
This is false. By saying this you are preaching a false Gospel and therefore a false Christ.
You
Jesus himself tells us what the purpose of his anointing with the fullness of the Spirit was, and one of the main purposes he tells us was that he was sent to set us free and pay our debt. He also tells us that He was sent to preach the word of God, and Jesus says that the words He speaks are Spirit and Life.
1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
We live through the words that God gave Jesus to speak, for they are Spirit and they are Life to those who believe, and we live through Jesus, for he has set us free from the death penalty.
Me
I’m not against that. But Jesus couldn’t have been sent if he was only one human because all humans are under the law when they come into the world and therefore including “the Jesus” that you preach.
The true Jesus had no debt to the law of God and that is why He alone could be a candidateto save humanity.
But that wasn’t the only condition.
We had to “coat it up “/cover our humanity and lead a life of faith in the Father, resist Satan’s temptations and not sin.
You
These two things happened not by sending a pre-existing son into the world, but by having anointed Jesus with the full measure of His Spirit.
Me
Had he not been the divine SON OF GOD CONSENT, He was not in the first condition to save mankind.
You
God did not promise to send an only begotten son to save the world.
Me
That’s wrong again.
Jesus said
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”
Paul says that Jesus is the Son of God, his OWN SON born of himself.
Hebrews 1
“and which, being the reflection of his glory and the imprint of his person”
“For to which of the angels did God ever say, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be his father, and he shall be my son?”
Jesus didn’t begin to be a son…when he came to earth, HE WAS ALREADY THE SON OF GOD WHO WAS WITH GOD
AND WHO WAS GOD AND WHO SHARED THE GLORY OF THE FATHER BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. (John 1; John 17)
Have in you the feelings that were in Jesus Christ,
2:6 Who, being in the form of, hath not regarded being equal with God as a prey to be plucked up,
2:7 But stripped himself, and took the form of a servant, and became like unto men, and appeared as a mere man,
2:8 He humbled himself, being obedient unto death, even unto the death of the cross.
GOD MUST REVEAL UNTO THEE PHILIPIANS 2
Because it is the very basis of the Gospel, THE TRUE GOSPEL AND THE TRUE CHRIST.
April 4, 2020 at 8:36 pm#862172
Berean
Participant
GO TO THE SOURCE OF LIGHT
The revelation of your words enlightens, it gives intelligence to the simple. (Psalm 119.130)
It sometimes happens that men, though intelligent, educated and cultured, do not understand certain passages of Scripture, while others, who have not been educated, whose understanding seems limited, and whose thinking has not been disciplined, grasp its meaning, finding strength and comfort in what the former declared to be mysterious or unimportant. Why is this so? The last category is not based on one’s own understanding. They draw from the source of light, from the one who inspired the Scriptures, and with humility of heart, ask God for wisdom, and receive it. There are still mines of truth for the fervent seeker to discover.
Christ represented truth by a treasure hidden in a field. It does not lie on the surface; we must dig for it. But our success does not depend so much on our intellectual capacity as on our humility of heart and faith in seizing divine help.
Without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we will always be in danger of doing violence to the Scriptures or misinterpreting them. Some readings from the Bible may even sometimes prove to be useless or harmful. When the word of God is opened without reverence and prayer; when thoughts and affections are not fixed on God, or are not in harmony with his will; then thought is veiled by doubt, and skepticism is reinforced in the very study of the Bible. The enemy takes control of thoughts and suggests interpretations that are not correct.
When men do not seek, in word and deed, to remain in harmony with God, then, no matter what their instruction, they are likely to err in their understanding of Scripture, and it is unwise to trust their explanations. When we truly seek to do God’s will, the Holy Spirit makes the principles of His word become the principles of life, writing them on the tablets of the soul. And only those who follow the light already granted can hope to receive another illumination of the Spirit.
April 4, 2020 at 8:39 pm#862173
Berean
Participant
The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us”. He who shared all the glory with the Father left it aside, and was made flesh. He left his divine way of life aside, and took the way of man, and God manifested Himself in the flesh. This truth is the very foundation of all truth. For surely it is not to angels that he helps, but to the seed of Abraham. Therefore he had to be made like his brethren in all things, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest without the service of God, to make atonement for the sins of the people; for having been tempted himself in the things which he suffered, he can help those who are tempted” (Hebrews 2:14-18). But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for a little while, crowned with glory and honor for the death which he suffered, that by the grace of God he might suffer death for all” (Hebrews 2:9).
April 4, 2020 at 8:50 pm#862174
Berean
Participant
Therefore he had to be made like his brethren in all things, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest without the service of God, to make atonement for the sins of the people;(Hebrews 2)

Jesus was made what he wasn’t.
He existed “in the form of God”
But to be our High Priest HE HAS TO BE MADE SEMBLE TO HIS BROTHERS BY PARTICIPATING IN BLOOD AND FLESH.
April 5, 2020 at 2:44 am#862181
mikeboll64
Blocked
Carmel: THUS THE PROBLEM MIKE IS THAT
YOU, JODI, and GENE
DONT KNOW WHO THE MASTER IS.
Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time:
Sit on my right hand,
until I make thy enemies thy footstool?
I REPEAT: In the above Mike
WHO SERVES WHO?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Jesus is the servant, Carmel. His and our God, YHWH, is the Master. Hebrews 1:13 is a case of the Master granting His servant the prestigious right hand position beside Him, and using His almighty power to fight His servant’s enemies on behalf of His servant. Much like the Master used His power to fight the enemies of His servant Israel on many occasions.
April 5, 2020 at 2:49 am#862182
mikeboll64
Blocked
Jodi: God’s word from the beginning was a man who in him is life?
No. Jesus, who has as one of his many titles “The Word of God” because he is God’s main spokesman, was with his and our God in the beginning, and later was made flesh and dwelt upon the earth for a while. The Word of God was not a man in the beginning, but was made so about 4000 years after the creation of the world.
April 5, 2020 at 3:20 am#862183
mikeboll64
Blocked
Mike: And if the first one was a combination of Father and Son from the beginning, then the second one is an identical combination of Father and Son. So now we have two Gods who are both a combination of Father and Son. Is that your claim?
Kathi: The OO, before asexual reproduction begins, is one living organism. The OO (as if the OO has a mind) decided to begin asexual reproduction. At that moment, the OO begins changing from one living organism to becoming two distinct living organisms. Since the process is asexual reproduction, both of the organisms will be replicas of the OO EXCEPT both will have one original DNA strand and one new complimentary DNA strand, therefore neither the FO or the SO are exactly what the OO was. The process of asexual reproduction changed the OO into a FO and a SO. THE OO did change.
1. God doesn’t change.
2. You still have one entity in existence before the second entity came into existence.
3. You still have a second entity brought into existence via actions performed by the original entity.
4. You have an original entity made up of F and S, which then becomes two entities – each of them made up of F and S.
5. You end up with two completely identical entities, indicating that YHWH and Jesus are completely identical in every single way.

April 5, 2020 at 3:37 am#862184
mikeboll64
Blocked
Jodi: Mike your understanding cannot be correct, because it works against other clear passages. Isaiah tells you that all flesh will come to worship God. David tells you he died having his flesh rest in hope. Ezekiel tells you that the dry bones shall live where God will give people a heart of flesh and by His Spirit He will cause those with a heart of flesh to walk in His ways, which Paul tells us that those that are Led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God. We are also told by Paul that we are members of his body of his flesh and of his bones.
My understanding doesn’t work against any passage of which I’m aware. Perhaps you can list the actual scriptures (one at a time) that you reference here, and let’s see. Are you thinking that all will be the same after the resurrection? There will still be flesh and blood human beings, and spirit entities just as there are right now.
Jodi: NO scripture says that we are made like the angels in the means of being made into spirit beings.
John 3:7-8
Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
Jodi, do you suppose God and His angels are flesh beings? I imagine not. So then you must believe that Jesus is the only flesh and blood creature existing in a heaven filled with spirit entities? Is that correct?

April 5, 2020 at 3:48 am#862185
Jodi
Participant
Good Morning Mike,
This below scripture tells you directly that a man was in God’s word in the beginning,
Isaiah 46:8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
God gave WORD in the beginning of things not yet done, that WORD not yet done declared in the beginning was a man who would come and execute God’s purpose, which that purpose was to bring salvation, to bring LIFE.

April 5, 2020 at 3:58 am#862187
Jodi
Participant
Hi Mike,
YOU:
John 3:7-8
Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
Jodi, do you suppose God and His angels are flesh beings? I imagine not. So then you must believe that Jesus is the only flesh and blood creature existing in a heaven filled with spirit entities? Is that correct?
Me: Acts tells you that upon Jesus being raised from the dead where his flesh was not allowed to see decay, where he was raised in glory, that he was begotten by God on that day, made incorruptible of power.
Also you are told that he received upon rising the promised Holy Spirit, and the promises of the mercies of David. He then appeared to many and said that he was not a spirit, he was of flesh and bones. Likewise you are told that Jesus is going to sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh, where he is a Son of God according to the Spirit (Romans 1).
Jesus isn’t filled with spirit entities, he is filled with God’s Spirit and that Spirit contains all the fruits that cause a man to be righteous.

April 5, 2020 at 3:58 am#862188
mikeboll64
Blocked
Jodi: I do not get at all what you mean by me speaking a contradiction. Today a virgin can have a baby through artificial insemination, so the ability to be born of a virgin is actually no longer unique.
Inseminated with what, exactly? Male human sperm, right? Who provided the male human sperm for Mary’s insemination? The coming anointed one was foretold to be born of a virgin, right? So then not a matter of, “God will send a messiah someday, who will come into this world by a normal mother and father just like every other human comes into the world”, right? No, this prophesied anointed one WOULD BE (long before he arrived) DIFFERENT than any other human being – because he would be born of a virgin. See Jodi? They already knew ahead of time that he would be one of a kind. Now consider…
Luke 3:23 King James Bible
And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli…
What do the words “as was supposed” mean in this verse? Why are those words there?
Hopefully you can now see that Jesus was indeed one of a kind, although he was “made in the likeness of men” (Phil 2:7) and was sent “in the likeness of sinful man” (Romans 8:3).
April 5, 2020 at 4:01 am#862189
mikeboll64
Blocked
Jodi: Jesus isn’t filled with spirit entities…
So then your answer is yes, right? You DO believe that Jesus, sitting at the right hand of God right now, is the only flesh and blood human being dwelling in heaven where every other being is not flesh and blood, but a spirit entity?
April 5, 2020 at 4:06 am#862190
mikeboll64
Blocked
Jodi, what happened to John 17:5? Is it true that Jesus prayed to his God to be restored to the glory he had alongside his God before the world began?
April 5, 2020 at 4:13 am#862191
Berean
Participant
IN THE BIGINNING WAS “THE WORD” AND “THE WORD” WAS WITH THE GOD AND “THE WORD “WAS GOD.
HERE IS THE TRUE WORD
OF GOD NOT THE JODI’S WORDS
WHICH ARE PERVERTED BY A SES SEDUCTOR SPIRIT THAT MISLEADS UNSETTLED SOULS…

April 5, 2020 at 4:16 am#862192
Jodi
Participant
Hi Mike and All,
Yehovah gave WORD not yet done also that He would raise up a prophet from among brethren, God would put His WORD in his mouth, and whoever did not believe in this prophet and the word of God that he would give, would be destroyed.
Yehovah gave WORD not yet done to prophets and they spoke about this coming man where he would receive dominion over all the works Yehovah had made. Mike you are directly told that Yehovah created all things alone, by himself in Isaiah 44 and 45.
Psalms 8: 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
A HUMAN is promised to receive dominion Mike, it’s the same human of God’s word from the beginning who would come and execute God’s purpose.
Hebrew 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
by -dia,
popular meaning to the word dia, BY REASON OF, ON ACCOUNT OF
God’s Son in the above verse, did not speak to us God’s word until “these last days”, prior the prophets gave God’s word.
If God before the world was promised eternal life, and also His WORD was that a man would execute this purpose, wouldn’t God have made all things BY REASON OF, ON ACCOUNT OF this MAN?
Also if this same man that was to come and execute God’s purpose is promised to received dominion over all the works God had made by himself, wouldn’t God have been making all things for this man?

April 5, 2020 at 4:41 am#862193
Berean
Participant
Jodi
You
Hebrew 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
by -dia,
popular meaning to the word dia, BY REASON OF, ON ACCOUNT OF
ME
Jodi
No, it’s not the most popular popular meaning
1223
dia
dia
dee-ah ‘
a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal, or occasional): – after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) … fore, from, in , by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general importance.

dia
dia
dia
Matt 1:22, Matt 2:5, Matt 2:15, Matt 2:23, Matt 4:4, Matt 4:14, Matt 6:25, Matt 7:13, Matt 8:17, Matt 8:28, Matt 10:22, Matt 12:1, Matt 12:17, Matt 12:27, Matt 12:31, Matt 13:5, Matt 13:6, Matt 13:13, Matt 13:21, Matt 13:35, Matt 13:52, Matt 13:58, Matt 14:2, Matt 14:3, Matt 14:9, Matt 15:3, Matt 15:6, Matt 17:20, Matt 18:10, Matt 18:23, Matt 19:12, Matt 19:24, Matt 21:4, Matt 21:43, Matt 23:14, Matt 23:34, Matt 24:9, Matt 24:12, Matt 24:15, Matt 24:22, Matt 24:44, Matt 26:61, Matt 27:9, Matt 27:18, Mark 2:4, Mark 2:23, Mark 2:27, Mark 2:27, Mark 3:9, Mark 4:5, Mark 4:6, Mark 4:17, Mark 5:4, Mark 6:2, Mark 6:6, Mark 6:14, Mark 6:17, Mark 6:26, Mark 7:29, Mark 9:30, Mark 10:1, Mark 10:25, Mark 11:16, Mark 11:24, Mark 12:24, Mark 13:13, Mark 13:20, Mark 14:58, Mark 15:10, Mark 16:20, Luke 1:70, Luke 1:78, Luke 2:4, Luke 4:30, Luke 5:19, Luke 5:19, Luke 5:19, Luke 6:1, Luke 8:4, Luke 8:6, Luke 8:19, Luke 9:7, Luke 11:8, Luke 11:8, Luke 11:19, Luke 11:49, Luke 12:22, Luke 13:24, Luke 14:20, Luke 17:11, Luke 18:5, Luke 18:25, Luke 18:31, Luke 19:11, Luke 21:17, Luke 23:8, Luke 23:19, Luke 23:25, John 1:17, John 1:17, John 1:31, John 2:24, John 3:29, John 4:4, John 4:39, John 4:41, John 4:42, John 5:16, John 5:18, John 6:57, John 6:65, John 7:13, John 7:22, John 8:47, John 8:59, John 9:23, John 10:1, John 10:2, John 10:17, John 10:19, John 10:32, John 11:42, John 12:9, John 12:18, John 12:27, John 12:39, John 12:42, John 13:11, John 14:11, John 15:3, John 15:19, John 15:21, John 16:15, John 16:21, John 17:20, John 19:11, John 19:38, John 19:42, John 20:19, Acts 1:2, Acts 1:16, Acts 2:16, Acts 2:23, Acts 2:25, Acts 2:26, Acts 2:43, Acts 3:18, Acts 3:21, Acts 4:2, Acts 4:21, Acts 4:25, Acts 4:30, Acts 5:12, Acts 5:19, Acts 7:25, Acts 8:11, Acts 8:18, Acts 8:20, Acts 9:25, Acts 9:32, Acts 10:36, Acts 10:43, Acts 11:28, Acts 11:30, Acts 12:9, Acts 12:20, Acts 13:38, Acts 14:3, Acts 14:12, Acts 14:22, Acts 15:7, Acts 15:11, Acts 15:23, Acts 15:27, Acts 15:32, Acts 16:3, Acts 16:9, Acts 17:10, Acts 18:2, Acts 18:3, Acts 18:27, Acts 18:28, Acts 19:11, Acts 19:26, Acts 20:3, Acts 20:28, Acts 21:4, Acts 21:19, Acts 21:34, Acts 21:35, Acts 23:31, Acts 24:3, Acts 24:3, Acts 27:4, Acts 27:9, Acts 28:2, Acts 28:2, Acts 28:18, Acts 28:20, Acts 28:25, Rom 1:2, Rom 1:8, Rom 1:12, Rom 1:26, Rom 2:12, Rom 2:16, Rom 2:23, Rom 2:27, Rom 3:20, Rom 3:22, Rom 3:24, Rom 3:25, Rom 3:25, Rom 3:27, Rom 3:27, Rom 3:30, Rom 3:31, Rom 4:13, Rom 4:13, Rom 4:16, Rom 4:25, Rom 4:25, Rom 5:1, Rom 5:5, Rom 5:10, Rom 5:11, Rom 5:12, Rom 5:12, Rom 5:17, Rom 5:17, Rom 5:19, Rom 5:19, Rom 5:21, Rom 5:21, Rom 6:4, Rom 6:4, Rom 6:19, Rom 7:4, Rom 7:5, Rom 7:7, Rom 7:8, Rom 7:11, Rom 7:13, Rom 7:13, Rom 7:25, Rom 8:3, Rom 8:10, Rom 8:11, Rom 8:20, Rom 8:37, Rom 10:17, Rom 11:28, Rom 12:1, Rom 12:3, Rom 13:5, Rom 13:5, Rom 13:6, Rom 14:15, Rom 14:20, Rom 15:4, Rom 15:9, Rom 15:15, Rom 15:30, Rom 15:30, Rom 15:32, Rom 16:18, Rom 16:26, Rom 16:27, Rom 16:27, 1 Cor 1:1, 1 Cor 1:10, 1 Cor 1:21, 1 Cor 1:21, 1 Cor 2:10, 1 Cor 3:15, 1 Cor 4:10, 1 Cor 4:15, 1 Cor 4:17, 1 Cor 6:14, 1 Cor 7:2, 1 Cor 7:5, 1 Cor 7:26, 1 Cor 9:23, 1 Cor 10:1, 1 Cor 10:25, 1 Cor 10:27, 1 Cor 11:9, 1 Cor 11:9, 1 Cor 11:10, 1 Cor 11:10, 1 Cor 11:12, 1 Cor 11:30, 1 Cor 12:8, 1 Cor 14:9, 1 Cor 14:19, 1 Cor 15:57, 1 Cor 16:24, 2 Cor 1:1, 2 Cor 1:4, 2 Cor 1:5, 2 Cor 1:11, 2 Cor 2:4, 2 Cor 3:4, 2 Cor 3:7, 2 Cor 3:11, 2 Cor 4:1, 2 Cor 4:5, 2 Cor 4:11, 2 Cor 4:14, 2 Cor 4:15, 2 Cor 5:7, 2 Cor 5:7, 2 Cor 5:10, 2 Cor 5:18, 2 Cor 6:7, 2 Cor 6:8, 2 Cor 6:8, 2 Cor 7:13, 2 Cor 8:5, 2 Cor 8:8, 2 Cor 8:18, 2 Cor 9:12, 2 Cor 9:13, 2 Cor 9:14, 2 Cor 10:1, 2 Cor 10:9, 2 Cor 11:33, 2 Cor 11:33, 2 Cor 13:10, 2 Cor 13:14, Gal 1:1, Gal 1:15, Gal 2:1, Gal 2:4, Gal 2:16, Gal 2:19, Gal 2:21, Gal 3:14, Gal 3:26, Gal 4:7, Gal 4:23, Gal 5:13, Eph 1:1, Eph 1:5, Eph 1:7, Eph 1:15, Eph 2:4, Eph 2:8, Eph 2:16, Eph 3:6, Eph 3:9, Eph 3:10, Eph 3:12, Eph 3:16, Eph 3:17, Eph 4:6, Eph 4:16, Eph 4:18, Eph 4:18, Eph 5:6, Eph 5:17, Eph 6:13, Eph 6:18, Eph 6:24, Php 1:7, Php 1:11, Php 1:15, Php 1:19, Php 1:20, Php 1:20, Php 1:26, Php 2:30, Php 3:7, Php 3:8, Php 3:9, Col 1:1, Col 1:5, Col 1:9, Col 1:14, Col 1:20, Col 1:22, Col 2:8, Col 2:12, Col 2:19, Col 4:18, 1 Th 2:13, 1 Th 3:5, 1 Th 3:7, 1 Th 3:7, 1 Th 4:2, 1 Th 4:14, 1 Th 5:9, 1 Th 5:13, 2 Th 2:2, 2 Th 2:2, 2 Th 2:11, 2 Th 2:14, 2 Th 2:15, 2 Th 3:12, 2 Th 3:14, 2 Th 3:16, 1 Ti 1:16, 1 Ti 2:15, 1 Ti 4:5, 1 Ti 4:14, 1 Ti 5:23, 2 Ti 1:1, 2 Ti 1:6, 2 Ti 1:10, 2 Ti 1:10, 2 Ti 1:14, 2 Ti 2:2, 2 Ti 2:10, 2 Ti 2:10, 2 Ti 3:15, Titus 3:5, Titus 3:6, Phm 1:7, Phm 1:9, Phm 1:15, Phm 1:22, Phm 1:25, Heb 1:9, Heb 1:14, Heb 2:1, Heb 2:3, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:10, Heb 2:14, Heb 2:15, Heb 3:16, Heb 5:3, Heb 5:12, Heb 5:14, Heb 6:12, Heb 6:18, Heb 7:9, Heb 7:11, Heb 7:18, Heb 7:21, Heb 7:23, Heb 7:24, Heb 9:11, Heb 9:12, Heb 9:14, Heb 9:15, Heb 9:26, Heb 10:2, Heb 10:10, Heb 10:20, Heb 11:29, Heb 11:33, Heb 11:39, Heb 12:15, Heb 13:2, Heb 13:11, Heb 13:12, Heb 13:21, Heb 13:22, Heb 13:25, Jam 2:12, Jam 4:2, 1 Pe 1:5, 1 Pe 1:7, 1 Pe 1:12, 1 Pe 1:22, 1 Pe 1:23, 1 Pe 2:5, 1 Pe 2:13, 1 Pe 2:19, 1 Pe 3:1, 1 Pe 3:14, 1 Pe 4:11, 1 Pe 5:12, 2 Pe 1:3, 2 Pe 1:3, 2 Pe 1:4, 1 Jo 2:12, 1 Jo 3:1, 1 Jo 4:5, 2 Jo 1:2, 2 Jo 1:12, 3 Jo 1:10, 3 Jo 1:13, Rev 1:1, Rev 1:9, Rev 1:9, Rev 2:3, Rev 4:11, Rev 6:9, Rev 6:9, Rev 7:15, Rev 12:11, Rev 12:11, Rev 12:12, Rev 13:14, Rev 18:8, Rev 18:10, Rev 18:15, Rev 20:4, Rev 20:4

What if we sounded all those
passages where there’s the word “dia”
I’ve already checked a few of them
but you’d have to control everything.

April 5, 2020 at 4:48 am#862194
Jodi
Participant
Hi Mike,
YOU: So then your answer is yes, right? You DO believe that Jesus, sitting at the right hand of God right now, is the only flesh and blood human being dwelling in heaven where every other being is not flesh and blood, but a spirit entity?
ME: I spoke and explained this to you in a post earlier directed to you.
Jesus is said to be flesh and bone not flesh and blood. In the OT we are told that the LIFE of the flesh is of the BLOOD, but in the resurrection our life is by the water and of the Spirit.
I am never going to turn by back on God’s declaration that He made HUMAN BEINGS in His own image.
I believe Paul’s word from God that God created each kind of living soul having designed each one for it’s own glory. Each kind of living creature on earth has it’s own kind of flesh. A fish does not grow into a bird, nor does a mouse grown up to be a tiger, nor does the seed of wheat grow to become barley or any other type of grain other then wheat. The same is true for human beings, God designed our specific kind of flesh to have it’s own glory.
Jesus’s flesh did not see decay, it was raised in glory, raised in power, raised incorruptible, where he will sit on an eternal throne of his father David according to the flesh, being a Son of God according to the Spirit.
Paul tells us that those who are celestial have their own kind of body and they have their own glory, and such is true for those that are terrestrial they have their own kind of body designed for their own glory.
Jesus is promised an eternal throne on EARTH. You are told God who made all things by himself made earth and man not in vain, but for the earth to be inhabited where all flesh come to worship Him. You are told that the dry bones shall live, God will give them a heart of flesh and put His Spirit within them and they will walk in all His ways.

April 5, 2020 at 4:53 am#862195
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
I did not say it was the MOST popular, I said it is a popular meaning, TRUE to this day.
example,
A father is expecting a son to be born, he designs and creates a nursery for him, that which he designs and that which he is creating he is doing it BY REASON OF his son that is going to come and FOR his son that is going to come.

April 5, 2020 at 5:09 am#862196
Lightenup
Participant
Ok Mike, I’m planning on giving this some time today with you if you are available. Here goes:
Mike said:
Mike: And if the first one was a combination of Father and Son from the beginning, then the second one is an identical combination of Father and Son. So now we have two Gods who are both a combination of Father and Son. Is that your claim?
Kathi: The OO, before asexual reproduction begins, is one living organism. The OO (as if the OO has a mind) decided to begin asexual reproduction. At that moment, the OO begins changing from one living organism to becoming two distinct living organisms. Since the process is asexual reproduction, both of the organisms will be replicas of the OO EXCEPT both will have one original DNA strand and one new complimentary DNA strand, therefore neither the FO or the SO are exactly what the OO was. The process of asexual reproduction changed the OO into a FO and a SO. THE OO did change.
1. God doesn’t change.
2. You still have one entity in existence before the second entity came into existence.
3. You still have a second entity brought into existence via actions performed by the original entity.
4. You have an original entity made up of F and S, which then becomes two entities – each of them made up of F and S.
5. You end up with two completely identical entities, indicating that YHWH and Jesus are completely identical in every single way.
LU’s (my) answers:
Regarding this question of Mike’s: And if the first one was a combination of Father and Son from the beginning, then the second one is an identical combination of Father and Son. So now we have two Gods who are both a combination of Father and Son. Is that your claim?
LU: The OO is the potential Father and Son from the beginning, once asexual reproduction begins, the Father’s role begins and the Son’s role begins. The FO is the same type of cell as the SO and they are the same type of cell as the OO before asexual reproduction began. However, they do not have the same original DNA strand of the OO but only each have one side of the original DNA strand of the OO.
Did that make the OO change, well not in type or function or character. Does an actual cell change in type of function or character when it goes through asexual reproduction during binary fission…no. Btw, God is said to “change” His mind Mike, so just because you see the word “change” doesn’t mean that God didn’t go from non-creator to creator or non-begetter to begetter for instance.
Number 2 and 3, there is one cell in existence before it becomes two. That one cell that first existed reproduced into a second, that is true. My main point is not that one cell existed before reproduction, my main point is that both cells are identical in age according to their substance, i.e. DNA, nucleus, etc. They are also identical in type and purpose and character.
Number 4 and 5
You (Mike) said:
4. You have an original entity made up of F and S, which then becomes two entities – each of them made up of F and S.
5. You end up with two completely identical entities, indicating that YHWH and Jesus are completely identical in every single way.
I would reword your #4 to say this: Suppose I have an “eternal” existent original entity, the OO. It is made up of the potential F and S . Only after the asexual reproduction begins does it begin being father and son, which then, after the begetting, becomes two entities-each of them with asexual reproduction potential, just like the OO that was eternally existent. They don’t exercise that potential to make a second generation though. If they did, the FO would not have an “only begotten” son but the first of other sons. If the SO did go through the asexual reproduction, the offspring would not have either strand of the original DNA of the “eternal” OO within it and would not be considered the same eternal age as the FO or the SO. That is why the same eternal age can only occur during the first generation of reproduction of one son. I am using the word “eternal” not because the first OO is actually eternal organism but a first original organism is created. I am only using the term as if the OO was eternal just for the analogy sake.
Number 5, yes you end up with two completely identical entities, indicating that YHWH the God of gods and YHWH, the Lord of lords are completely identical in every single way except with different relationships to each other. One is a father the other is a son. One is the begetter, the other is the begotten…still identical in type, function and character and age. Both are inter-dependently the fullness of the one OO after asexual reproduction begins. One God inter-dependently in two persons, united as one spirit.
I hope this helps. LU
April 5, 2020 at 5:10 am#862197
Jodi
Participant
Berean,
Apply God’s word with God’s word and the truth should be obvious.
Our heavenly Father’s word from the beginning was that a man was going to come and execute God’s purpose which was salvation and life.
Our heavenly Father’s word was that He created all things alone, by himself, and that He promised to give a HUMAN BEING dominion overall that He created.
Our heavenly Father’s word was of a man to come who would shed his blood to bring forth salvation, and because he obeyed God’s command unto his death, God promised to give him a portion with the great, and have him divide the spoil with the mighty.
Apply God’s word with God’s word, such is how truth is established. When God made all things by Himself He would be doing so BY REASON OF and FOR the very man who He said that He was going to give it to. That man would bring forth salvation and life, so without this man God would not have made the worlds.
Bearan this is a TRUTH I don’t see how anyone can possibly deny, even if it does not fit their current doctrine of beliefs.
Our heavenly Father SPOKE IT in the beginning, He purposed it and said that He would do it.
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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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