Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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February 3, 2023 at 6:24 am#942204
Berean
Participant
Hi Jodi
I am not against the Word of God. (the verses you quoted)
With regard to the MESSIAH, GOD WOULD NOT HAVE ALLOWED TO ANNOUNCE HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD IF HIMSELF (THE MESSIAH) HAD NOT BEEN WITH HIM (GOD THE FATHER). WHAT IF HE WAS NOT GOD (John1)
IT IS THE SON WHO OFFERED HIMSELF AS AN OFFERING FOR SIN.
Behold, I come to do your will, O God (Heb.10:9)
THE FATHER ACCEPTED THE SON’S OFFER
AND THE FATHER WHO SO LOVED THE WORLD GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
THE SON GAVE HIS LIFE
Therefore doth the Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. (John 10:17)
THE SON HAS LITERALLY DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN TO ACCOMPLISH HIS MISSION:
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me (the Father) John 6:38)
IT IS THE OWN SON OF GOD WHO WAS GIVEN AND SENT TO EARTH:
Rom. 8
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending👉 HIS OWN SON 👉 in the likeness of sinful flesh 👈, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
HIS OWN SON
the brightness of his glory (Heb.1)

WAS MADE FLESH
“IN THE LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH”
And being FOUND in fashion as a MAN,
he HUMBLED HIMSELF,
and
became OBEDIENT unto death,
even the death of the cross.(Ph.2:8)
🙏
February 3, 2023 at 7:21 am#942205
Berean
Participant
Jodi
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not difficult to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
From verse 5 to 8
I see the condescension of Christ to the human race
HE WHO STATE IN THE FORM OF GOD AND WHO WAS GOD TOOK ON HIMSELF OUR HUMAN NATURE….etc….
HE LOWERED SO THAT WE CAN BE ELEVATED,
HIM RICH THAT HE WAS TOLD US PAUL
HE WAS IMPOVERISHED IN ORDER TO ENRICH US
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.(2Cor.8:9)
JESUS ALSO SAID:
HE WHO RISES WILL BE LOWERED AND HE WHO HIMSELF LOWER WILL BE HIGH. (Luke 14:11)
JESUS HAS LOWERED HIMSELF IN EVERY SENSE OF THE TERM UNTIL BECOME SIN FOR US SO THAT WE BECOME GOD’S JUSTICE IN HIM.
🙏
February 3, 2023 at 11:51 am#942206
carmel
Participant
Hi Gene,
You: Your so screw up you can’t even understand that a person and his words , “ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING”,
you and your word are you and no one else, are you so ignorant you don’t realize, that holds true even with God. the Father.
Just as it does us.

Mr. GENIUS!
ARE YOU SO IGNORANT THAT YOU PUT GOD IN THE SAME BASKET AS MERE HUMANS?
ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT GOD AS A PERSON IS LIKE YOU AS A PERSON?
YES OR NO? Read BEFORE YOU DARE TO ANSWER!
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts:
nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
Gene, WHAT DOES THE ABOVE STATEMENT BY GOD TELL YOU?
NO, YOU WON’T ANSWER, SO I TELL YOU:
IT CLEARLY SAYS THAT
GOD’S WAYS ARE NOT YOUR WAYS!
Thus I add:
NOR HIS WORD YOUR WORD!
CLEAR?
Read and respect GOD AS GOD, AND HIS WAYS AS HIS WAYS! OR ELSE…….
9For as the heavens are exalted above the earth,
so are my ways exalted above your ways,
and my thoughts above your thoughts.
so likewise GOD’S “WORD” IS ALSO ABOVE YOUR WORDS Mr. Genius!
Keep on reading:
10And as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and return no more thither, but soak the earth, and water it, and make it to spring, and give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
11So shall my word be,
DID YOU GET THAT Mr. Genius? attention now:
which shall go forth from my mouth:
it shall not return to me void,
ANSWER Gene,
WHAT DOES YOUR WORD DO WHEN IT LEAVES YOUR MOUTH?
DOES IT RETURN TO YOU AT LEAST?
but it shall do whatsoever I please,
DOES IT DO WHATEVER YOU PLEASE?
TO ME, IT SEEMS QUITE NOT IN RELATION TO WHAT YOU PREACH!
OR PERHAPS MORE LIKELY
IT IS NOT YOUR WORD AT ALL BUT THE DEVIL’S WORD!
and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
GO, AHEAD Gene, SEND YOUR WORD SOMEWHERE, WHO KNOWS….
Now read what God’s words are in
John 6:63....The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.
Now tell us Gene, ARE YOUR WORDS SPIRIT or LIFE?
NONE I SUPPOSE! I tell you what they are
LIES, BLA and BLA

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

February 3, 2023 at 12:43 pm#942207
carmel
Participant
Hi Jodi,
You: People beheld his glory
as he was full of truth
as he had been the only mortal man to have been begotten of God’s Spirit without measure.
Me, Jodi I’M AFRAID TRUTH IS NEITHER IN YOU NOR IN YOUR PREACHING FOR SURE!

READ SCRIPTURES:

Philipians2:5For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who being in the form of God,
thought it NOT ROBERRY to be EQUAL with God:
7But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant,
being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.
8He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross.
JESUS WAS NOT A MORTAL MAN THROUGH SIN.
HE IS ETRNALLY SINLESS, HE OPTED TO BECOME LIKE MORTAL HUMANS, AND TO DIE LIKE HUMANS.
John10:17 Therefore doth the Father love me:
because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.
18No man taketh it away from me:
but I lay it down of myself,
and I have power to lay it down:
and I have power to take it up again.
This commandment have I received of my Father.
JESUS HAS POWER OVER HIS OWN LIFE!
HUMANS HAVE NO OPTION AT ALL, BUT MUST DIE!

John1:17 For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time:
the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. 18He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of
the only begotten Son of God.
JESUS IS BEGOTTEN OF GOD, NOT OF GOD’S SPIRIT!

John14:6 Jesus saith to him:
I am the way, and the truth, and the life.
No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

JESUS IS THE TRUTH, NOT HE WAS FULL OF TRUTH!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
February 4, 2023 at 7:49 am#942211
carmel
Participant
Hi Jodi, and as I already made clear, also Gene!
I am not quite finished with your particular post above. 942189
I feel that I must keep on
HAMMERING BOTH YOU and Gene, FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH.
You can remain SILENT as much as you please, it doesn’t affect me in any way, I am still going to debunk your preaching and belief every time you post, as I feel that I MUST do it.
Thus, always guided by the Holy Spirit, here we go:
Hereunder, you posted two particular scriptures, which seem
they contradict themselves, as I will show you hereunder:
1 Chronicles 17:11-14 teaches us that the son of David was promised to be made into God’s Son and
that God would settle him into His House and into His Kingdom forever and that He would give him an eternal throne.
1 Corinthians 15: 20-28 teaches us that the man raised first from the dead shall reign over all the earth putting down all rule and authority and the last enemy he will destroy is death itself and
then he will give the kingdom over to God our Father……
As you can read above in 1Chronical 17:11-14 this Son of David would eventually own His Kingdom
FOREVER, and with an ETERNAL THRONE!
In 1 Corinthians 15-28 This Son of David eventually would give His Kingdom, SUPPOSED HIS KINGDOM FOREVER,
to God our Father.
HERE COMES A HEADACHE FOR YOU:
My Question: In my UNDERSTANDING IN RELATION TO YOUR BELIEF, YOU and Gene, though you would NEVER be in the position to answer,
I ASK YOU:
HOW ON EARTH, THIS SON OF DAVID WOULD POSSESS
A KINGDOM FOREVER, WITH AN ETERNAL THRONE, AND AT THE SAME TIME AT THE VERY END, HE GIVES HIS KINGDOM,
SUPPOSED FOREVER,
TO GOD OUR FATHER?
READY SET GO!
I’M WAITING!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

February 5, 2023 at 11:04 am#942218
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
YOU:
Jesus did not use his divine CREATOR power…
ME: Your statement is off to me.
Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing*: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. 3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Berean, the POWERS that Jesus had were according to the Spirit that descended and came to abode in him at the river Jordan, which is God’s word of prophecy unto a son of Jesse and of David made true in Jesus.
The above is direct biblical teaching and anything else then becomes a contradiction, a lie. There is no scripture that says Jesus performed all these mighty works BECAUSE he existed prior with these powers and then he came to earth bringing them with him.
Such a belief also directly contradicts God’s word that surrounds the very prophecy I am speaking of that was fulfilled in Jesus.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,
February 5, 2023 at 7:58 pm#942219
Lightenup
Participant
Hi Jodi,
It’s been a while. I hope you are doing well considering your recent loss.
I would like to know your understanding of what the One who existed in the form of God emptied himself of as spoken of in Philippians 2:
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
God bless, LU
February 5, 2023 at 11:13 pm#942227
Berean
Participant
Hi Jodi
You
Hi Berean,
YOU:
Jesus did not use his divine CREATOR power…
ME: Your statement is off to me.

Me
Too bad, but it would be good for you to start taking it into account. You and Gene can’t continually twist the scriptures.
JESUS HAPPILY IS THE DIVINE/HUMAN SON OF GOD.
TO BE A MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, YOU MUST BE ON BOTH SIDES: DIVINE AND HUMAN.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT “EMMANUEL” GOD IS WITH US.
WE CAN TRANSLATE IT GOD FOR US AND ALSO GOD + US.
IN THE BIGINNING, HE WAS GOD AND WHEN THE TIMES WERE FULFILLED, HE WAS MADE FLESH ACCORDING TO WHAT WAS PROPHETIZED BY THE HOLY PROPHETS.
🙏
February 6, 2023 at 4:58 am#942231
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Berean…….I nor Jodi are twisting up anything, we are quoting scriptures word for word, and you fail to even acknowledge them. The only one twisting scriptures here is You, and the rest who believe like you.
Your above statement is another lie, you said , in order to be an “mediatior”, you must be half human and half devine” , please show “ONE” scripture, that says that, just one. Was Moses a “mediator”, between God and Isreal?, YES HE WAS. Was he half Human and half devine?, No he was not, he was pure human, justxas Jesus was also.
See how your logic works, through a host of “assumptions” , not proven fact at all.
You reject the actual scriptures we post, directly from the word of God, and insert your own false assumptions, you have been taught by all the fallen Churches, you listen to and their false ministers and false prophets. Then come here and try to explain their lies to us who kow the truth. Repent while you still can Berean
Peace and love to you and yours Berean……….gene
February 6, 2023 at 5:06 am#942232
Jodi
Participant
Hi All,
Col 1:16 For by him were ALL THINGS CREATED, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
God made Jesus lord and Christ (Acts 2:36).
God makes Jesus an eternal throne as was promised (1 Chronicles 17:12 and 14).
Jesus did not make himself lord and nor did he make himself an eternal throne, so he could not possibly be the creator of ALL THINGS.
For by REASON OF Jesus were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by REASON OF Jesus, and FOR Jesus.
The SAME God who MAKES Jesus a powerful and righteous judge and ruler through His Spirit, where he sits on his father David’s throne to be an eternal king, is the same God who created heaven and earth, thus it is this same God who has created ALL THINGS including thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers.
Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins…11Then in that day the nations will resort to the root of Jesse, who will stand as a signal for the peoples; and His resting place will be glorious.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
God formed it Himself FOR the anointed Jesus to inhabit, the firstborn of many brethren, where all rule and authority is given to him as he is made a King of kings and a Lord of lords.
God formed it to be inhabited by the Son and those predestined to be conformed into the image of the Son, people who are led by the Spirit of God, all heirs of God’s Spirit, joint heirs with the anointed Jesus and thus are all God’s eternal Sons, having God’s Spirit live in them to the cause that they walk in all of God’s ways and thus there is no more sin and no more death.
The Son of Man is coming in the glory of our Father where he will fulfill our Father’s purpose for having created all things in the first place, the son of Jesse will bring forth peace upon the whole earth where our Father will be ALL IN ALL, without this Son of Man nothing would have been made that was made.
February 6, 2023 at 7:07 am#942233
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
YOU:
1John.1
[1] That which was from the beginning, (Christ time on earth)which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life(Jesus himself);
[2] (For the life was manifested, ( Jesus is the way,the truth and the life)and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father(reference to John 1:1-4), and was manifested unto us;)(the Son of God in the flesh)
[3] That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
ME:
Thanks for speaking to 1 John 1 directly and clarifying how you interpret it, much appreciated!
1 That which was from the beginning , which we have heard (God’s promise of eternal life that was preached by the anointed Jesus), which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life, for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us (Jesus was raised from the dead given eternal life and people were eyewitnesses seeing him and handling him knowing that God’s word of life was made true in the flesh of Jesus ) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Mark 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel’s, 30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her ,I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Luke 24: 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have…46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time…20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
Berean, if Jesus represents some eternal God who came to earth to be a temporary human, him being raised from the dead unto life is not really at all significant, it takes away from him actually being a firstborn of many brethren. He’s not really the Son of Man who was exalted to God’s right hand, nor is he really the man who became the firstfruits of them who sleep the sleep of death either.
The truth is that with God from the beginning was a promise of eternal life unto mankind and with God from the beginning was the first man who would receive it and be exalted to God’s right hand to then later fulfill God’s word of life to many, this is exactly why we are told that all things were created by reason of and for this firstborn of many brethren, where without him nothing would have been made by God that was made.
February 6, 2023 at 7:37 am#942234
Berean
Participant
For by REASON OF
If You wrote it on Google traduction
In greek You have
ΓΙΑ ΛΟΓΟ ΤΟΥ
GIA LOGO TOU
February 6, 2023 at 8:18 am#942235
Berean
Participant
Jodi
Berean, if Jesus represents some eternal God who came to earth to be a temporary human, him being raised from the dead unto life is not really at all significant, it takes away from him actually being a firstborn of many brethren. He’s not really the Son of Man who was exalted to God’s right hand, nor is he really the man who became the firstfruits of them who sleep the sleep of death either.
The truth is that with God from the beginning was a promise of eternal life unto mankind and with God from the beginning was the first man who would receive it and be exalted to God’s right hand to then later fulfill God’s word of life to many, this is exactly why we are told that all things were created by reason of and for this firstborn of many brethren, where without him nothing would have been made by God that was made.
Me
Jodi read

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
New King James Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
🙏

February 6, 2023 at 8:56 pm#942237
carmel
Participant
Hi Jodi,
First and foremost,
YOU and Gene CAN REMAIN SILENT AS MUCH AS YOU PLEASE, WHILE MY POSTS REMAIN AS TRUTH.
You: Jesus did not make himself lord and nor did he make himself an eternal throne, so he could not possibly be the creator of ALL THINGS.
Me: WITH THE SAME CORRUPTED REASONING,
GOD ALMIGHTY, A SPIRIT, COULD NOT REVEAL, MANIFEST AND ESTABLISH HIMSELF PHYSICALLY AS
THE ONLY TRUE GOD ON EARTH.
HE ONLY ACHIEVED IT BY, AND THROUGH
JESUS, THE SON OF MAN,
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH.
OBVIOUSLY, WHILE THE FATHER IN THE VERY FIRST ACT BY GOD AD EXTRA, WAS EMBODIED IN ONE GLORY ETERNALLY FROM THE VERY BEGINNING IN JESUS, John17:5
ETERNAL LIFE.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
Jodi, Jesus was given power over all flesh, PRECISELY WHEN GOD, ETERNAL LIFE HIMSELF, IN HIS FIRST-EVER ACT,
WAS PHYSICALLY EMBODIED IN JESUS, IN THAT INSTANT
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH/PHYSICAL. PRE-EXISTED AS
THE UNIQUE CARRIER OF GOD!
THE UNIQUE IMAGE OF GOD!
THE UNIQUE FORM AND SHAPE OF GOD.
Notice the PRESENT PERFECT TENSE!
As thou HAST GIVEN him power over all flesh,
AN ACTION COMMENCED IT THE PAST AND CONTINUES INTO THE PRESENT.
Well ALSO asserted in
John1:1IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
4In him was life,
and the life was the light of men.
THE ONLY GENUINE PHYSICAL CARRIER OF GOD BEFORE ANYTHING WAS EVER CREATED!
NO FATHER NO JESUS!
NO JESUS NO FATHER!
NOW Jodi and Gene, HERE COMES A CLEAR REFERENCE TO
BOTH OF YOU, ENTIRELY IN FULL DARKNESS, WITH EVERY RESPECT.
5And the light shineth in darkness,
and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Peace and Love in Jesus Christ
February 7, 2023 at 4:50 am#942240
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Carmel…….Why should we post to your own renditions, that come from you own carnel mind, that You have fooled yourself into thinking, that what you say is “Spritual truth”, even though not a single scripture agrees with it. Trust me Carmel you are not gifted with the “spirit of truth”, or You would be agreeing with Jodi and I, espically when we quote scriptures “word for word”. Right out of the bible itself.
what your not understanding is that your not only disagreeing with me and Jodi, you disagreeing with the scriptures themselves. We are told in scriptures ( not me)  “he that keeps not his commandments, the truth is not “IN” HIM. This is how we know your are not of the truth , because you deny the words we have quoted to you from scripture .
You remind me of the church of Laodica , They thought they were wise and needed nothing, but were both blind and naked, Carmel.
peace and love to you and yours Carmel………..gene

February 7, 2023 at 6:58 am#942241
Berean
Participant
Gene
YOU
Berean…….let me parapharse it for you ok, seening you lack the understanding of scriptures. ,
“IN the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God”.  what that is saying is that God and his word are one and the same thing, not that God and his word are two seperate beings of somekind, as you falsely preach. Need proof?, go read Genesis it tell us clearly it was God himself who spoke those words, and no one else did.

Me
You wrote : what that is saying is that God and his word are one and the same thing,
NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE WE READ SUCH A THING .
But Jesus said
I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.
A WORD THAT GOD SPEAKS CANNOT BE GOD.
FOR ONLY A PERSON CAN BE GOD, NOT A WORD THAT GOD SPEAKS.
SO THIS MEANS THAT THE “WORD” OF JOHN 1:1 THAT WAS GOD IS MUCH MORE THAN A WORD THAT GOD SPOKEN, EVEN THOUGH THAT WORD SPOKEN IS VERY IMPORTANT.
🙏
February 7, 2023 at 11:15 am#942242
carmel
Participant
Hi Gene,
You: Carmel…….Why should we post to your own renditions, that come from you own carnel mind, that You have fooled yourself into thinking, that what you say is “Spritual truth”, even though not a single scripture agrees with it.
Me: Gene, THAT’S WHAT YOU ARE GOOD FOR, SIMPLY
BLA, BLA, and BLA!
WHY DIDN’T YOU CHOOSE A VERSE FROM MY POST AND CONTRADICTED ME USING SCRIPTURE?
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE PROPER AND JUST WAY IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH AND JUSTIFY THE TRUTH.
PLEASE DO SO!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
February 7, 2023 at 11:46 am#942244
Proclaimer
Participant
“IN the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God”. what that is saying is that God and his word are one and the same thing, not that God and his word are two seperate beings of somekind, as you falsely preach. Need proof?, go read Genesis it tell us clearly it was God himself who spoke those words, and no one else did.
Let me make some corrections.
1. The Word is preceded by the definite article like The God is. Thus, not likely to be referencing logos as an attribute, but a person. Just as The God is referencing a person except the last mention of theos in John 1:1c which has no definite article and likely referencing theos in quality, nature, or as an attribute.
2. The Word was WITH God. Another huge clue as it points out again that it is not the attribute or nature, but something next to God or WITH him in the beginning.
3. God created all things through the Word. This means that God is the creator, but he did it through and for the Word that was WITH him. The same can be said about the Son of God. God created all things through and for Jesus Christ the Son of God.
4. So which did God create all things through? The Word or Jesus Christ the Son? Both actually. But they are the same being not two. One proof of this when Jesus Christ, the Son of God returns. His name is ‘The Word of God’. So Jesus is called Jesus so he is Jesus. Likewise, his name is the Word of God, so he is the Word of God.
There you have it. This is what scripture tells us. We either deal with this by accepting it or reject this and scripture. If you reject it, then you have to come up with clever ideas to deceive people about it. That choice is yours as we have free will.
February 7, 2023 at 2:53 pm#942245
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
YOU:
IT IS THE SON WHO OFFERED HIMSELF AS AN OFFERING FOR SIN.
Behold, I come to do your will, O God (Heb.10:9)
ME: Jesus offered himself because God commanded him to do so, it was God’s plan and as you said God’s will and Jesus obeyed.
Jesus obeyed because he was the Son of Man who God had CALLED TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, where God would hold his hand and keep him for to fulfill God’s covenant.
Jesus obeyed and his calling to righteousness occurred through the Spirit of God coming to dwell in him without measure, Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear/reverence of the LORD;”
Through the Son of Man Jesus receiving the Spirit of YHVH, the Spirit of fear/reverence for Him, he obeyed the command to die on the cross. Those who are LED by the Spirit of God walk in God’s ways, they obey Him and are called the Sons of God. Jesus was the only mortal human to have been led by the Spirit in all of God ways, called to righteousness having received the Spirit not by measure, an only begotten Son.
Berean please talk about how an offspring of Jesse would be CALLED TO RIGHTEOUSNESS in Isaiah 42 for to THEN fulfill God’s covenant.
Please talk about how Jesus said that he must be baptized to fulfill all righteousness in Matthew 3.
Please speak to the fact that we are told that Jesus was filled with the Spirit at the river Jordan and then was LED by the Spirit into the wilderness.
Please speak to the fact that we were predestined to be conformed to the image of the Son AND PAUL TELLS US DIRECTLY A FEW VERSES PRIOR THAT THOSE WHO ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD ARE THE SONS OF GOD. You seem to deny the very image of the Son of God that is directly given, not to mention the very fact that 1 Chronicles 17 teaches directly that FIRST you have a son of David and THEN God makes him into His own Son.
Please explain how our hope is to receive the promised Spirit as Jesus received when he was raised from the dead, the same Spirit we are told is needed to be able to walk in all of God’s ways where there is then no more sin and thus no more death.
Please explain, is not the promise of being an heir of God, joint heirs with Christ, the promise of inheriting God’s Spirit where we then walk in all of God’s ways and thus are led by the Spirit in all of God’s ways and thus are Sons of God, making Jesus the firstborn of many brethren???

February 7, 2023 at 4:00 pm#942246
Jodi
Participant
Berean,
Your interpretation is in grave error and if you reviewed the context given in the entire chapter maybe it would not be so,
1 Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Paul is speaking about godliness which comes through the Spirit to which JESUS RECEIVED WITHOUT MEASURE at the river Jordan. Godliness is God manifesting Himself in the flesh. If you have love, if you have truth, if you have patience, etc.., God’s Spirit is living in you, God is manifesting Himself in the flesh. Or are we all to be self-righteous? Jesus was certainly not, he said he could do nothing of himself, he said that only God is good, he said that God was in him and that is how he was doing the works.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
The Son of Man who received the Spirit of God WITHOUT MEASURE for the purpose to speak God’s words and do God’s works performing all of His will, was the perfect image of godliness and thus was God manifested in the flesh, why Jesus said that seeing him was seeing God and to believe not on him but on God who sent him, for God was in him. The SON OF MAN was received up into glory, exalted to God’s right hand, the very glory that God had promised to an offspring of Jesse. One man who was with God in His Word from the beginning where we will see him also return in our Father’s glory.
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For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me (the Father) John 6:38)IT IS THE OWN SON OF GOD WHO WAS GIVEN AND SENT TO EARTH:

the brightness of his glory (Heb.1)

nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

GOD’S WAYS ARE NOT YOUR WAYS!

NOR HIS WORD YOUR WORD!

CLEAR?

so are my ways exalted above your ways,

and my thoughts above your thoughts.

11So shall my word be,

it shall not return to me void,

6Who being in the form of God,

18No man taketh it away from me:

and I have power to lay it down:

and I have power to take it up again.

This commandment have I received of my Father.

the only begotten Son of God.

I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

FOREVER, and with an ETERNAL THRONE!

to God our Father.

READY SET GO!

God was manifest in the flesh,

THE ONLY TRUE GOD ON EARTH.

“THE WORD” MADE FLESH.

THE UNIQUE CARRIER OF GOD!

THE UNIQUE IMAGE OF GOD!

THE UNIQUE FORM AND SHAPE OF GOD.

4In him was life,

THE ONLY GENUINE PHYSICAL CARRIER OF GOD BEFORE ANYTHING WAS EVER CREATED!

NO FATHER NO JESUS!

NO JESUS NO FATHER!

5And the light shineth in darkness,

and the darkness did not comprehend it.

PLEASE DO SO!

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For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me (the Father) John 6:38)
IT IS THE OWN SON OF GOD WHO WAS GIVEN AND SENT TO EARTH: