Home Questions & Answers Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth? Page 1,179

Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • January 31, 2023 at 8:02 am#942175
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    It’s a bummer that you refuse to explain how the passages I give fit in perfectly with your doctrine.

    Who can provide the best scriptural support to their belief? Who can interpret passages through the use of other passages verses interpreting through their own imagination? Who can interpret a passage where that understanding doesn’t contradict other passages? Who can use all scripture, not ignoring a one?

    I am on this forum to DEBATE what God’s word does and does not teach.

    I would never say to you, “You’re just forcing the scriptures to try to get me to swallow the lie that Jesus pre-existed”, because that would be pathetic, an obvious cop out. I would take those scriptures and explain to you directly how they fit into my belief.

    It’s VERY SIMPLE Berean, I give scriptures and then summarize what I believe they are teaching us, if my summary you believe is a lie, then speak to those same scriptures and give your understanding and feel free to add additional scriptures. Expose what you consider is a lie with giving God’s word, don’t just say my belief is a lie.

    January 31, 2023 at 8:42 am#942176
    Jodi
    Participant

    Berean,

    Can you speak to my point?

    Jesus was able to do God’s works because he was anointed of the Spirit for that purpose.

    Jesus was filled with the Spirit to do God’s works and Jesus said God was in him and that is how he was doing the works of God.

    Jesus was declaring proof that he was God’s Son and that God was in him, by the works of God that he was doing.

    The devil’s acknowledgement of Jesus as God’s Son was by his ability to do might works. 

     

     

     

    January 31, 2023 at 9:43 am#942177
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    The main point of dispute are not these points that you are quoting to me IT IS THAT YOU DO NOT SEE THAT JESUS IS THE ONE THE BIBLE CALLS ‘THE WORD OF GOD’👉REV.19:13

    👉 AND THE WORD WAS GOD….AND WAS MADE FLESH

    January 31, 2023 at 3:08 pm#942179
    Jodi
    Participant

    Berean, in all honesty, to me it just seems like you want to avoid a number of scriptures that I use to support my belief because they discredit your own, you can’t give an explanation as to how those passages actually support your belief. If your doctrine is sound, if it is of truth, you really should be able to speak to those scriptures.

    If I were ignorant to a major portion of crucial bible passages and strictly had the passages that you give that you believe support your doctrine, I could believe your doctrine, your doctrine would seem true, but I am not ignorant.

    January 31, 2023 at 9:03 pm#942180
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodie

    For God, it is not a question of giving birth to a human child whom He would have predestined and prophesied by his holy prophets, that this one become a man and that he be anointed with the Spirit of God and accomplish high deeds of justice and love SO THAT HE BECOMES THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD.

    THINGS ARE NOT SO.

    THE TRUTH IS THAT THE DIVIN SON OF GOD CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN TO DO THE FATHER’S WILL AND NOT HIS.

    TO DO THIS , HIS DIVINITY HAS BEEN JOINED WITH OUR HUMANITY BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

    PAUL SAYS ABOUT THE SON OF GOD

    I)  Who,👉 being in the form of God,👈 thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (Hé WAS equal to God)

    II)   [7] 👉 But 👈made himself of no reputation, 

    III)👉 and 👈took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 

    IV) [8] 👉And 👈being found in fashion as a man, 

    V) 👉 he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 

     

     

     

    January 31, 2023 at 9:14 pm#942181
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: but I am not ignorant.

    Me: MORE THAN YOU THINK I’M AFRAID, WITH EERY RESPECT, concerning

    JESUS’ UNIQUENESS, PRE-EXISTENCE, DIVINE CHARACTERISTICS and ATTRIBUTES.

    The fact that you are so mentally stagnated that even JESUS’HUMAN CHARACTERISTICS, FOR YOU, ARE TOTALLY  EARTHLY and SATANIC. something that Jesus Himself made certain  to emphatically DENY in

    John 14:I will not now speak many things with you.

    For the prince of this world cometh,

    and in ME he hath not anything.

    Now just tell everyone on heaven net WHAT THE ABOVE DECLARATION BY JESUS

    MEANS!

    Got it Jodi and Gene, ?

    I make it easy for you, SINCE SPIRITUALLY YOU ARE BOTH TOTALLY IN DARKNESS!

    Jesus was sent by the Father, and CAME INTO THIS WORLD IN ALL THINGS LIKE HUMANS OF EARTH, ATTENTION PLEASE:

    WITHOUT THE LEAST INTERMINGLING WITH THE PROCESS OF THIS SATANIC WORLD.

    TO BE CLEAR:

    GOD NEVER MADE USE WHAT YOUR CORRUPTED CARNAL-MINDED REASONING 

    HINTS  AND SUGGESTS YOU, I MEAN,

    NO SPERM and OVUM FORMED JESUS’ UNIQUE, ONE-OF-A-KIND FLESH AND BLOOD BODY, OTHERWISE HE WOULDN’T  HAVE BEEN NEITHER SO, NOR A JUSTIFIED HOLOCAUST ATTRIBUTED TO THE FATHER?

    IT IS ALL A DIRECT PROVISION FROM THE FATHER, AS EVE WAS,

    Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said:

    God will provide himself a victim for a holocaust, my son.

    So they went on together.

    THE FATHER AND THE SON ON THE CROSS Jodi and Gene!

    BY WHICH THE FATHER ESTABLISHED HIMSELF AS OUR SAVIOUR. Read and accept the truth:

    Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith: Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldest not:

    but a body thou hast fitted to me: 

    Another scripture Jodi, which you must explain what it DOES MEAN!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    February 1, 2023 at 3:40 am#942186
    Jodi
    Participant

    Good Morning All,

    Deuteronomy 33: 27 teaches us that our God is an Eternal God who is our refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms.

    Titus 1:2 teaches us that our God promised eternal life before the world began

    1 John 1:1-2 teaches us that from the beginning with God was His Word of Eternal Life and the resurrected Jesus who the people saw and handled was the manifestation of that Word of Eternal Life.

    Romans 5: 8-21 teaches us that by the obedience and righteousness of one human shedding his blood on the cross we are given grace, righteousness and eternal life.

    Isaiah 46:10-13 teaches us that God spoke from the beginning of a man who would come at an ending and execute His purpose which is to bring forth salvation and righteousness.

    John 6:27 teaches us that the Son of Man whom God our Father has sealed will give us everlasting life.

    Matthew 16: 27 teaches us that the Son of Man will come in the glory of our Father and reward every man according to his works.

    With what we are taught from these scriptures it can rightfully be said that,

    In the beginning was the Word of Life and the Word of Eternal Life was with God before the world began and God Himself is Eternal.

    In the beginning was the Word of one man who would come and execute God’s Word of Eternal Life.

     

    February 1, 2023 at 4:59 am#942187
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    You

    With what we are taught from these scriptures it can rightfully be said that,

    In the beginning was the Word of Life and the Word of Eternal Life was with God before the world began and God Himself is Eternal.

    In the beginning was the Word of one man who would come and execute God’s Word of Eternal Life.

    Me

    All This Bible textes are good,  but that does not take away THE FACT THAT JESUS IS CALLED ‘THE WORD’ in John 1:1 and Rev.19:13:and that he WAS WITH GOD AND WAS GOD…AND WAS MADE FLESH AND DID AMONG US….AND SO ON….

    🙏

    February 1, 2023 at 5:20 am#942188
    Berean
    Participant

    1John.1
    [1] That which was from the beginning, (Christ time on earth)which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life(Jesus himself);
    [2] (For the life was manifested, ( Jesus is the way,the truth and the life)and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father(reference to John 1:1-4), and was manifested unto us;)(the Son of God in the flesh)
    [3] That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

    February 1, 2023 at 6:25 am#942189
    Jodi
    Participant

    Keeping in mind that we are taught from scripture that,

    In the beginning was the Word of Life and the Word of Eternal Life was with God before the world began and God Himself is Eternal.

    In the beginning was the Word of one man who would come and execute God’s Word of Eternal Life.

    Let’s look at what we are also given,

    Acts 17:24-31 teaches us that our God who made the world and all things therein appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by one man whom he ordained, where we have assurance in that God did indeed raise this man from the dead.

    1 Chronicles 17:11-14 teaches us that the son of David was promised to be made into God’s Son and that God would settle him into His House and into His Kingdom forever and that He would give him an eternal throne.

    Acts 2: 30 teaches us that God raised up the son of David according to a promise where God exalted him to His right hand and gave him the promised Holy Spirit.

    Matthew 25: 31 teaches us that the Son of Man will come in his glory with holy messengers with him and he will sit upon the throne of his glory.

    1 Corinthians 15: 20-28 teaches us that the man raised first from the dead shall reign over all the earth putting down all rule and authority and the last enemy he will destroy is death itself and then he will give the kingdom over to God our Father where our Father will be all in all.

    Isaiah 46:10-13 teaches us that God spoke from the beginning of a man who would come at an ending and execute His purpose which is to bring forth salvation and righteousness.

    Psalms 148:1-14 teaches us to Praise YHVH our God for by His command heaven and earth and all things were created, from stars, to beasts, to men and maidens, to kings, princes and judges.

    With what we are taught from these scriptures it can rightfully be said that,

    Our God and Father has created all things FOR one man to inherit, to judge and rule over.

    BY reason of this man, God’s purpose for creating all things in the first place, God will be all in all.

    February 1, 2023 at 7:56 am#942190
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    In the beginning was the Word of one man who would come and execute God’s Word of Eternal Life. 

    Me

    NO 

    IN THE BIGINNING WAS THE SON OF GOD WHOSE NAME IS “THE WORD OF GOD”(Rev.19:13)
    AND NOT THE WORD OF ONE MAN . 

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and 👉the Word was God.👈
    [2] The same was in the beginning with God.
    [3] 👉All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.👈

    🙏

    February 1, 2023 at 8:37 pm#942192
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Jude 1:25
    to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

    Do I hear an ‘Amen’ Jodi?

    February 2, 2023 at 5:51 am#942194
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi……you ask them , “are you all to blind to see it”…?.?,  fact is, yes  they are all blind,  or they could easely see what you have written is the truth.

    They simply do not want to see Jesus as a real human being “exactly as we are”,  they have rejected God’s work of perfection , “IN” humanity,  through the human Man Jesus Christ.   They have taken this man and made him their GOD, just as Paul said they would in 2thes2 ,  and they will pay for it at the return of Jesus, when they are rejected, Just as it says. .in the Prophsy of Paul.

    When the Son of Man returns as our king, and they see he is a real human being, “not a God”, who rejects them and their false teachings,  they will turn on him and call him “the Antichrist”,  and they will be  destoryed by the words of Jesus’ mouth, just as said.  They are already predesposied to call him the Antichrist,  by their present thinking.

    Jodi your doing a great Job, your quotation after quotation of our scriptures , to prove over and over you points is most incouraging to those who truly love the truth’

    Hold fast to what you have Jodi, even unto the end. Your crown awaits you sis.

    Peace and love to you and your Jodi……..gene

     

    February 2, 2023 at 10:24 am#942196
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    [2] The same was in the beginning with God. 

    [3] All things were made by HIM; and without HIM was not any thing made that was made. 

    For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 

    Your mind has been conditioned by FALSE TEACHING.

    FOR SIMPLICITY  THE TRUTH IS BETWEEN
    TRINITARISM AND UNITARISM WHICH DENY THE DIVINITY OF CHRIST.

    🙏

     

     

    February 2, 2023 at 9:10 pm#942197
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Hi Jodi,

    You: In the beginning was the Word of one man…..

    Me: Perfect Jodi, that one MAN is Jesus, THE SON OF MAN YET TO BE.

    Pre-existed BEFORE ALL  WITHIN THE DEITY AD INTRA, and eventually, ALL THINGS CONSISTS BY HIM once God initiated creation. AD EXTRA, OUTSIDE OF THE DEITY, Colossians 1:17, but before creation ever occurred in the heavenly realms, ALL THROUGHOUT SPIRITUAL EVEN AS FLESH,  THIS MAN’S WORD, WAS NOT YET “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, since no creatures were in existence yet, and GOD WAS SILENT. Thus THIS MAN, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, THOUGH GOD HAS NO BEGINNING, PRECISELY THROUGH HIS SON HAD A BEGINNING BY THE VERY FIRST PRONOUNCEMENT OF GOD, “LET THERE BE LIGHT”, BY WHICH LIGHT GOD ESTABLISHED FROM WITHIN HIS BOSOM, HIS SON

    GOD FROM GOD,

    LIGHT FROM LIGHT AS 

    THE  UNIQUE PHYSICAL EMBODIMENT OF GOD,

    THE UNIQUE PHYSICAL IMAGE OF GOD. 

    THE  UNIQUE FORM AND SHAPE OF GOD.

    THE UNIQUE CARRIER OF GOD.

    IN GOD’S OWN TERMS, IN FLESH,

    THUS “THE WORD” FROM THAT VERY INSTANT AND FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME, WAS MADE FLESH, AGAIN IN GOD’S MYSTERIOUS TERMS.

    THE FIRST AND THE LAST JERUSALEM:

    THIS MAN’S BODY.

    A LUMINOUS PHYSICAL BODY manifested on mount Tabor, IN ONE GLORY WITH THE FATHER A SPIRIT WITHIN, INDWELLING FOR THE FRIST EVER TIME WITHIN THIS UNIQUE MAN, HIS SON,

    ETERNALLY THE UNIQUE ABODE OF GOD!

    ETERNAL LIFE, NO MATTER WHAT AND WHOM AT ALL COSTS,

    BY WHOM GOD FOR THE FIRST-EVER TIME MOVED, AND SAW HIMSELF AS

    MAN AD EXTRA, OUTSIDE OF HIMSELF

    IN A UNIQUE GLORY BOTH PHYSICAL AND SPIRIT.

    Psalm 8:4 What is man that thou art mindful of him?

    or the son of man that thou visitest him?

    BOTH FLESH AND SPIRIT! THEN GOD WHO IS LOVE SAID:

    Genesis 2:18 And the Lord God said:

    It is not good for man to be alone:

    let us make him a help like unto himself.

    From then on THIS MAN Jodi, AS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD,

    ETERNAL LIFE, LEFT THE FATHER,

    EMPTIED HIMSELF, AND POURED HIS ENTIRE SPIRIT OVER ALL CREATION, AS ETERNAL LIFE,

    John6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles,

    but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were FILLED.

    Got it Jodi, “WERE FILLED”

    FILLED WITH JESUS’ SPIRIT ETERNAL LIFE WELL ASSERTED BY JESUS HIMSELF HEREUNDER:

    27Labour not for the meat which perisheth,

    but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life,

    which the Son of man shall give unto you:

    for him hath God the Father sealed. 

     

    THE PURE FACT THAT GOD CREATED ALL BY HIM, ALL IN HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM.

    John1:3 All things were made by him;

    and without him was not anything made that was made. 

    4In him was life;

    and the life was the light of men.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    February 3, 2023 at 4:01 am#942199
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…….let me parapharse it for you ok, seening you lack the understanding of scriptures. ,

    “IN the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God”.  what that is saying is that God and his word are one and the same thing,  not that God and his word are two seperate beings of somekind,  as you falsely preach. Need proof?, go read Genesis it tell us clearly it was God himself who spoke those words,  and no one else did. 

    In the beginning of our scriptures has only God speaking his own words, not someone speaking for him, GOD CREATED EVERYTHING BY HIS OWN WORDS, NOT BY SOMEONE ELSES WORDS, only an idiot would believe differently. Your so screw up you can’t even understand that a person and his words , “ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING”,  you and your word are you and no one else, are you so ignorant you don’t realize,  that holds true even with God. the Father.  Just as it does us.  DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE , your words and you can possibilly be two seperate things.

    Simply amazing at THE LEVEL OF STUPIDITY, THAT ACTUALLY EXISTS HERE! One thing for sure,  it is an evident token of the lack of the Spirit of Truth, that existes in modern “Christanity”,   and you people are an excelent example of it, IMO,   sad!

    Peace and love to you and yours ………..gene

     

    February 3, 2023 at 4:15 am#942200
    Jodi
    Participant

    Thank you Gene, I very much appreciate your backup and encouragement!

    It will be a glorious day when all that is true becomes all that is known.

    February 3, 2023 at 4:29 am#942201
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    I’ve known THIS UNITARIAN BLABLABLA for a long time. IT’S NO NEED TO TRY TO MAKE ME SUGGEST THIS.

    February 3, 2023 at 4:37 am#942202
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    I said, “In the beginning was the Word of one man who would come and execute God’s Word of Eternal Life.

    Please acknowledge these passages,

    Isaiah 46:10 DECLARING the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have SPOKEN it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    This is God’s Word from the beginning, His pleasure, His purpose for creating all things in the first place.

    Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, PROMISED before the world began; 3 But hath in due times manifested his WORD through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

    John 6: 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

    What I said comes directly from what the above passages teach us.

    February 3, 2023 at 5:57 am#942203
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    I see that you left out verse 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    and then Paul proceeds to give us the MIND/thinking of the anointed man JESUS,

    Paul later in the chapter says,

    12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

    Berean once again, John 6: 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

    Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

    John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

    Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

    The anointed man Jesus received the Spirit to be sent out to speak the word of God where he preached the word of life and that he as a Son of Man will give eternal life. People beheld his glory as he was full of truth as he had been the only mortal man to have been begotten of God’s Spirit without measure.

    The men that Paul is speaking to in Philippians, that he asks be like minded with the anointed man Jesus, are men who have also received the Spirit and have also been sent out to preach God’s word of truth, to declare God’s Word of life and how it is that God had planned from the beginning that by one’s man’s righteousness we would be saved and that this man will return in the glory of the Father giving the reward of the word of God the word of eternal life.

    Just as Jesus was persecuted for speaking God’s word these men would also be persecuted and they needed to be like minded with the anointed man Jesus and be faithful also unto their own deaths.

     

     

     

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