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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • January 29, 2023 at 7:15 am#942149
    Jodi
    Participant

    Good Morning Berean,

    I have asked you some questions, I’d very much appreciate some answers.

    Tell me what those divine attributes that your pre-existing Jesus left behind were?

    We are told, “the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father”, what is that glory?

    January 29, 2023 at 8:58 am#942150
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Proclaimer,

    YOU:

    His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    Scripture clearly answers this question. Why doubt? Because it doesn’t fit your own understanding?

    ME: Maybe I can get an appropriate response from you, let’s see! I appreciate your time and I will make it as short as possible. 

    First let me define what I believe is an appropriate response, first you read the passages I give carefully and then you read the summary I give that reflects my understanding of what those passages teach us and then tell me what is wrong with my understanding using the very same scriptures I gave and being free to add in additional scriptures to provide further explanation of your position and how I am in error.

    Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name WRITTEN, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is CALLED The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name WRITTEN, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all Goodness and Righteousness and Truth.

    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins…11Then in that day the nations will resort to the root of Jesse,
    who will stand as a signal for the peoples; and His resting place will be glorious.

    Isaiah 42: 1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    The word of God from the prophet Isaiah spoke of a coming ruler where we are given many details about this ruler, there would be no end to his kingdom and to his rule, his throne is that of his father David’s, he brings forth righteous judgment and justice through the Spirit of the LORD that is upon him, he destroys the wicked and creates a glorious place of rest and peace.

    Revelation 19 speaks of this very ruler and declares that this ruler has a name that is WRITTEN and says that name is CALLED the word of God and then we read the word of God of Isaiah being quoted about this ruler and then we are given the name that IS WRITTEN, King of kings and Lord of lords.  

    The name that is WRITTEN, King of kings and Lord of lords, is rightfully called the word of God. John even gives us directly the word of God spoken by the prophet Isaiah to confirm such is true.

     

    January 29, 2023 at 9:09 am#942151
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

     

    There is a partial answer to your question regarding the divine attributes of Christ in my last post…

    👇

    Jodi

    I do not fit into your reasoning which ALWAYS results in denying Christ as creator of all things.

    all things were created by him, and for him:
    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    THIS IS ONE OF ITS ATTRIBUTES
    HE IS OMNIPOTENT

    POWERFUL MY JESUS!

    Isaiah 9:6

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

     

    AMEN!

    January 29, 2023 at 9:26 am#942152
    Jodi
    Participant

    Here is an additional questions for you Berean,

    What attributes of the pre-existing Jesus remained that would then give purpose for sending him down to earth in the first place?

    Thank you!

    January 29, 2023 at 10:13 am#942153
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi

    Based on Phillipans 2
    Jesus gave up his divine attributes for personal use BUT HE USED THEM FOR THE GOOD OF OTHERS ALWAYS IN COMMUNION WITH HIS FATHER.
    HIS DIVINE ATTRIBUTES ARE THOSE OF HIS FATHER.
    SEE COLOSSIANS 2:9

    🙏

     

    January 29, 2023 at 11:14 am#942154
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    To Jodi

    his name is CALLED The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name WRITTEN, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    Yes his name is “The Word of God”. So he is The Word of God.
    Yes, his name is Jesus. So he is Jesus.

    Yes, the name of King of Kings and Lord of Lords is written.

    So he is the Word of God who is coming in the name of the King of Kings.

    But is this the only part of scripture that says he is the Word of God? Could it be a one off translation issue?

    No. Read John 1. You will see once again that the Word of God became flesh and dwelt among us and clearly that is talking about Jesus. And yes, this is why we believe that he came in the flesh. If you do not believe that he (The Word of God / Jesus Christ) came in the flesh, then scripture has a stern warning for you that you can read for yourself.

    Could it be a coincidence that the Word became flesh and that Jesus Christ came in the flesh? That God created all things through the Word and God created all things through the Son of God. Are they two with the same attributes destiny? No, they are the same person.

    Everything I have said in this post is true. What part of the truth I have expressed in this post do you have a problem with @Jodi?

    January 29, 2023 at 1:02 pm#942155
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

     

    January 29, 2023 at 1:04 pm#942156
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Me: GOD IS A SPIRIT, and since there was not yet anything created, there was no need for  Jesus’ SPIRIT task as “THE WORD” of  God and mediator between God and His creatures, NO?  Thus, before Jesus was “THE WORD” of God, and God was BOTH SILENT and  A SPIRIT, Isaiah 62:1 the first-ever task by God was to have A  CARRIER, A PHYSICAL BODY,  A FLESH BODY IN GOD’S OWN TERMS, A MAN, but not yet officially A SON OF MAN,

    MANIFESTED ON MOUNT TABOR.

    Now this body, THIS UNIQUE MAN, was precisely His Son, in one glory with the Father. The fact that His Son is the unique genuine IMAGE OF GOD, the unique CARRIER OF GOD, the unique FORM and SHAPE OF GOD, AS HE WAS ON EARTH!

    John5:37 37And the Father himself who hath sent me, hath given testimony of me: neither have you heard his voice at any time, nor seen HIS SHAPE. 38 And you have not HIS “WORD” abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him you believe not.

    Berean, God all-knowing, HIS FIRST-EVER TASK, as pinpointed out above,  was when He established His Son’s PHYSICAL BODY FOR HIM AS A CARRIER.

    Hebrews 10:55Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith: Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldest not:

    but a body thou hast fitted to me:

    Now reflect, please!

    In the above scripture, Jesus referred to His body offered as a sacrifice, and God-all knowing established Jesus’ body as a sacrifice EVEN BEFORE ANYTHING WAS EVER CREATED. THE FACT THAT HE, JESUS,

    FOR THE SAKE OF CREATION, ALL IN/BY HIM

    EMPTIED HIMSELF OF HIS GENERAL DIVINE ATTRIBUTES, WHICH INCLUDED HIS BODY, ATTENTION PLEASE:

    IMMEDIATELY ON THE FIRST ACT OF CREATION, IN A NEW TASK. THUS HE TRANSFORMED HIMSELF AND BECAME

    “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD!

    CONSEQUENTLY, at the stage before creation, Jesus was not yet established as “THE WORD” No? But definitely among the deity, and the CARRIER OF THE DEITY, COL.2:9, He was THE EMBODIMENT OF GOD, A MAN, and was named also Jesus, again, GOD ALL-KNOWING. Well pinpointed out by Jesus in

    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,

    the Son of man who is in heaven.

    THE SON OF MAN, JESUS, WHO IS IN HEAVEN!

    Also, God SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, begotten definitely before creation, in order to be able to SEND HIM. Well clear hereunder:

    John3:16 For God so loved the world, as TO GIVE his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him.

    GOD GAVE HIS SON BEFORE CREATION, GOD ALL-KNOWING.

    Now read hereunder please:

    Genesis 1:26 And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness:…

    Got it Berean, AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL, in the above, God said the above words, REFERRING AND AIMING PRECISELY AT HIS SON NAMED JESUS, who, at that moment in time was also

    “THE WORD”  since creation was WELL, WELL, and WELL in progress.

    We cannot speak much about how long God was in one glory within His Son as His carrier, but obviously, there was a moment when God FOR A REASON OR ANOTHER HAD TO CREATE. Now let’s read the scripture hereunder:

    Genesis 2:18 And the Lord God said: It is not good for MAN to be alone: let us make him a help like unto HIMSELF.

    In Genesis 1:26 God said Let us make man to our image and likeness!

    Above, I said, that God by saying the above words, referred and aimed to His Son Jesus, originally BOTH A MAN AND ALSO NAMED JESUS, and A CARRIER OF GOD!

    Likewise, in Genesis 2:18 above God also

    REFERRED  AND AIMED AT HIS SON JESUS WHEN HE SAID THOSE PRECISE WORDS!

    Read and reflect please hereunder:

    IT IS NOT GOOD FOR MAN, JESUS IN ONE GLORY WITH THE FATHER BEFORE CREATION

    TO REMAIN AND BE ALONE:

    let us make him a help like unto HIMSELF.

    NOW THE ENTIRE CREATION IS DEFINITELY A HELP FOR JESUS TO ACQUIRE HIS KINGDOM, GOD’S KINGDOM!

    SINCE HE EMPTIED HIMSELF FOR IT’S SAKE NO?

    ALSO, THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT GOOD FOR MAN/GOD TO BE ALONE!

    You: HE WAS IN THE HEART OF GOD!

    BUT NOT WITH HIS HUMAN BODY

    But that’s not really the important point…

    Me: I’m afraid after you read the above,

    You definitely have quite a different perspective No?

    You: THE NAME OF JESUS IN THE BEGINNING IWAS”THE WORD OF GOD”
    BECAUSE GOD CREATE BY HIM ALL THINGS.
    JOHN 1

    IN THE BEGINNING OF CREATION,  JESUS, DEFINITELY WAS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, BUT AS EXPLAINED ABOVE, HE WAS DEFINITELY  NAMED JESUS BEFORE THE BEGINNING SINCE GOD BEGOT HIS SON BEFORE CREATION. THE PURE FACT THAT GABRIEL INSTRUCTED  MARY TO NAME HIM SO. PLUS ALSO THE FACT THAT  ACCORDING TO JESUS,

    HE WAS BOTH IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH AS SON OF MAN READ AGAIN

    John3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven,

    but he that descended from heaven,

    the Son of man who is in heaven.

    Berean, I REPEAT, JESUS SAID THAT

    THE SON OF MAN NAMED JESUS IS IN HEAVEN.

     

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    January 29, 2023 at 9:16 pm#942157
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    Before the Son of God WAS MADE FLESH ON EARTH, HE WAS IN THE FORM OF GOD (SEE PHILIPPIANS 2:6) HE WAS THE FIRSTBORN OF HEAVEN, HE WAS WITH GOD THE FATHER AND HE WAS GOD AND IN HIS IMAGE.( JOHN 1:1/ COL.1:15)

    🙏

     

    January 30, 2023 at 8:49 am#942160
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty god, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    Isaiah 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. 22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. 23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house.

    Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins…11Then in that day the nations will resort to the root of Jesse,
    who will stand as a signal for the peoples; and His resting place will be glorious.

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 

    John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

    A child is born, a son is given, a son of the tribe of Judah, a son of Jesse and of David where through the Spirit of YHVH that dwells in him without measure,

    he is a Wonderful Councilor

    he is made a Mighty God speaking YHVH’s word

    he is an Everlasting Father and a Prince of Peace ruling on an eternal throne in righteousness

    His NAME is according to that which he accomplishes through YHVH’s Spirit. 

     

    January 30, 2023 at 10:19 am#942161
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi

    Good Post Jodi.

    THE LORD YAHVEH’S Zeal IS GREAT.

    Before becoming King or Prince on the throne of YAHVEH, HE MUST BE A PRIEST, EVEN A HIGH PRIEST BECAUSE HIS PEOPLE NEED TO BE COMPLETELY SANCTIFIED AND GLORIFIED BY HIS HEAVENLY MINISTRY TO THE FATHER.

    👇
    And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
    [13] Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.(FATHER AND SON OF GOD)(ZECH.6)

    ….and he shall be a priest upon his throne:

    Jesus is this Priest

    Hebrews 2
    [8] Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
    [9] But we see JESUS WHO, who WAS MADE A LITTLE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS FOR THE SUFFERING OF DEATH, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should TASTE DEZTH FOR EVERY MAN.
    [10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
    [11] For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
    [12] Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
    [13] And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, BEHOLD I AND THE CHILDREN WHICH GOD HATH GIVEN ME.
    [14] Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, HE ALSO HIMSELF LIKEWISE TOOK PART OF THE SAME; that through DEATH HE MIGHT DESTROY him that had the power of death, that is, THE DEVIL;
    [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
    [16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
    [17] Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHREN, that he might be A MERCIFUL FAITHFUL HIGH PRIEST in things pertaining to God, TO MAKE RECONCILIATION FOR THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE.
    [18] For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, HE IS ABLE TO SUCCOUR THEM THAT ARE TEMPTED.

    AMEN!

    🙏

    January 30, 2023 at 11:17 am#942162
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Proclaimer,

    I hope you can follow me here,

    God’s Word from ISAIAH 42 was that a man would be filled with the Spirit, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and we are told that it was a calling to righteousness for him to be for a light. We are also told that this was GLORY that God would not give to another (VERSE 8).

    1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed REMAINETH in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and REMAINING on him,34 And I saw, and bare record that THIS IS the Son of God.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and TRUTH.

    John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit…34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

    John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

    The WORD that was made flesh was Isaiah’s Word of God made true in Jesus of Nazareth. 

    The GLORY of Jesus the people beheld was that of the only man who had been filled with the Spirit without measure, whereby he was thus FULL of grace and TRUTH.

    I just seriously don’t get how you and others don’t see this.

    Having the Spirit of God come to dwell IN and REMAIN IN Jesus, is NOT Jesus being begotten by God, born of His Spirit? The fact that he was the ONLY mortal man to have the Spirit of God without measure come to dwell IN and REMAIN IN him, isn’t why he is being called God’s only begotten Son?

    January 30, 2023 at 4:26 pm#942164
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Please review these passages if you don’t mind,

    Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    Col 2:8-9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him DWELLETH all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that DWELLETH in me, he doeth the works.

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

    1 Cor 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these WORKETH that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Matthew 20: 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

    Ephesians 4: 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    How do you honestly NOT SEE IT????

    Christ represents the man who was FILLED with the Spirit not by measure, which is EXACTLY WHY it is said that IN him DWELLETH all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, as the fruits of the Spirit that dwell in him, are in all goodness, righteousness and truth. Such makes Jesus of Nazareth the image of God.

    Jesus spoke God’s word and did God’s work through being born of the Spirit, having drank of the cup of the One Spirit. The Father dwells in him and it is the Father doing the works. Jesus was filled with the Spirit and anointed (Chrio which makes him our Christos) by that Spirit to speak God’s words, perform God’s works, obey God unto his death on the cross.

    Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Spirit returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

    Romans 814 :For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    Ezekiel 36: 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Romans 5: But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    Isaiah 42- a man is filled with the Spirit, he is called to righteousness for to be a light to fulfill God’s covenant.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Jesus being Christ, Jesus being God’s Son, Jesus’s righteousness where he walks in all of YHVH’s ways following His every command has NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM PRE-EXISTING and EVERYTHING TO DO WITH HIM HAVING THE SPIRIT OF YHVH COMING TO DWELL IN HIM at the river Jordan and then again upon him rising from the dead.

    THE IMAGE OF THE SON IS THE IMAGE OF A MAN BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT IN ALL WAYS AS THE SPIRIT REMAINS IN HIM. 

    THE BODY OF CHRIST REPRESENTS THE MAN WHO DRINKS  OF THE ONE SPIRIT WITHOUT MEASURE.

    Read again 1 Corinthians 12!

    January 30, 2023 at 9:54 pm#942165
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi

     

    Careful Jodi

    It’s sad, you confuse the fact that Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit with the fact that he had as Paul says the fullness of divinity being in his body.

    Jesus had BOTH.

    So it’s a waste of time trying to convince me otherwise.

    For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.(Col.2:9)

    January 31, 2023 at 4:52 am#942168
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean……Yes the fulnes of God “bwelt” “IN” the man Jesus, but the dosen’t make him GOD  , nor the Spirit himself,  THATS YOU problem  , your peoples problem , your making Jesus the SPIRIT, himself, that “DWELT” “IN” him.  And even GOD , HIMSELF BY SAYING JESUS CREATED EVERYTHING.  

    Because The Spirit of God indwells a person does not make him that Spirit “HIMSELF”. 

    Berean listen to Jodi , she is telling you people the truth.

    Peace and love to you and your Breean………gene

    January 31, 2023 at 5:49 am#942169
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    You are also confusing yourself.
    Divinity of Christ is one thing.
    Being filled with the Holy Spirit is another. Gene, you were taught at the wrong school. There is little time left for you to reconsider WHO JESUS REALLY IS.
    SO DON’T DELAY IN DOING IT.

    🙏

    January 31, 2023 at 6:23 am#942170
    Jodi
    Participant

    Berean,

    Col 2:8-9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him DWELLETH all the fulness of the Godhead BODILY.

    IN CHRIST Berean, not some pre-existing son, but in the Anointed MAN.

    As said before, the man Jesus was MADE lord and Christ, NOT Christ was made into a man. 

    Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain…36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God HATH MADE THAT SAME JESUS, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    Do you care to explain the above passage?

    How about the below passages?

    1 Samuel 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

    2 Samuel 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

    2 Samuel 22:51 He is the tower of salvation for his king: and sheweth mercy to his anointed, unto David, and to his seed for evermore. 23:1 Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said, 2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

    Does the above sound familiar? Read below that speaks of the coming Messiah a son of David, it’s all about the Spirit of God coming to dwell in a man.

    Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

    Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath ANOINTED ME to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

    Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

    Berean, it’s all about the Spirit dwelling in a man and the purpose God has for ANOINTING that man of His Spirit without measure, it is for this man to execute God’s will which is unto why God created all things in the first place.

    JESUS CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, but you really seem to be saying otherwise.

    The below passages seems to go way over your head so let me spell it out for you!

    1 Cor 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these WORKETH that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that ONE BODY, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into ONE BODY, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Matthew 20: 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

    Col 2:8-9 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him DWELLETH all the fulness of the Godhead BODILY.

    THE BODY OF CHRIST equates to the fullness of the One Spirit, to which Jesus drank of when the Spirit descended like a dove upon him without measure AND when he was raised from the dead receiving it according to a promise. Jesus received all of the gifts of the Spirit by such he represents the fullness of the Godhead bodily. 

     

     

    January 31, 2023 at 6:43 am#942171
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    You’re just forcing the scriptures to try to get me to swallow the lie that Jesus is just a man WHEN IT’S NOT AT ALL.

    🙏

    January 31, 2023 at 6:55 am#942172
    Jodi
    Participant

    To All,

    As I have shown from direct scriptures, John 1:14 is speaking of the Word of God of Isaiah being made true in the flesh of Jesus.

    It was God’s word that unto a man He would give His glory to, that God would fill this man with His Spirit a calling to righteousness where this man would then be sent out to being full of grace and truth. The people beheld the glory of a man who had been begotten of God’s Spirit without measure where by the Spirit they were in awe at the words of God that he spoke and the WORKS of God that he did for God was IN him.

    There is further biblical proof that this is true beyond what I have previously given! Are you all to blind to see it???

    John 10: 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

    John 14: 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

    John 17: 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

    Luke 4: 1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Spirit returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. 3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread. 4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

    The proof that Jesus lays out that he is indeed the Son of God is through him doing God’s WORK. People were to believe that God was in him and that was how he was able to do great works and those works were his proof that he was indeed God’s Son.

    Notice how the devil says, “if thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread”. Jesus only has power to do such because he has been filled with God’s Spirit, the ONLY mortal man to have been filled with it without measure.

    Jesus is seen as God’s Son and he declares himself as God’s Son through the WORKS he is able to do, which he is able to do those WORKS because God begat him with His Spirit, God was in him without measure. 

     

    January 31, 2023 at 7:11 am#942174
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    Jesus did not use his divine CREATOR power (which the devil wanted him to use) to make bread out of stones BECAUSE HE STANDED (Jesus) as a man to be an example of faith for all men. Satan knew that Jesus had a power that he did not have, and he wanted to push him to the fault so that he could not save us and that humanity remained under the yoke of the devil.

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