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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • January 26, 2023 at 4:33 am#942111
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    Berean, God all-knowing, Jesus, was A SON OF MAN from the beginning, to be clear,….

    Me

    What a BIGINNING ?

    Before or when our World WAS created?

    Or the BIGINNING OF the incarnated  SON OF GOD ?

    If 1 , the Son WAS NOT in the flesh but in the form of God, AND HIS NAME WAS NOT JESUS BUT ” THE WORD OF GOD” OR MICHAEL 👉 Rev.12:7.

    You

    With reference to Jesus’ own words, John the Baptist, was MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL INCARNATED AS A HUMAN, and in the above John, made it clear that HE NEVER KNEW JESUS, while he was in heaven.

    Me

    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying above. Do you think John the Baptist is Michael? That’s it ?

    🙏

     

    January 26, 2023 at 11:50 am#942113
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You: What a BEGINNING?

    Before or when our World WAS created?

    Or the BEGINNING OF the incarnated  SON OF GOD?

    Me: THE VERY BEGINNING BEFORE ANYTHING WAS EVER CREATED!

    You: If 1 , the Son WAS NOT in the flesh but in the form of God, AND HIS NAME WAS NOT JESUS BUT ” THE WORD OF GOD”

    He was in the flesh and His name was Jesus, BUT NOT YET “THE WORD” OF GOD.

    As manifested on Mount tabor.

    I’m not sure I understand what you are saying above. Do you think John the Baptist is Michael? That’s it ?

    Yes, Michael, as the prince of heaven.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    January 26, 2023 at 7:53 pm#942116
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    Do you have any Bible verses to prove that
    1) In the BEGINNING, the name of the Son of God was Jesus
    2) John the Baptist is Michael
    Thanks

    🙏

     

    January 27, 2023 at 12:22 pm#942123
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi, Berean,

    You: Do you have any Bible verses to prove that
    1) In the BEGINNING, the name of the Son of God was Jesus

    Me: John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,

    the Son of man who is in heaven. 

    From the above, we are certain that Jesus, THE SON OF MAN, HUMAN,  pre-existed, and also, while He was on earth He also was in heaven.

    Luke 1:31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 

    The above scripture made it clear that Jesus’ name came also from heaven, and if Jesus pre-existed He definitely HAD A NAME NO?

    Zecharia 3:1And the Lord shewed me Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord: and Satan stood on his right hand to be his adversary. 2And the Lord said to Satan: The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan: and the Lord that chose Jerusalem rebuke thee: Is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? 3And Jesus was clothed with filthy garments: and he stood before the face of the angel. 4Who answered, and said to them that stood before him, saying: Take away the filthy garments from him. And he said to him: Behold I have taken away thy iniquity, and have clothed thee with change of garments. 5And he said: Put a clean mitre upon his head: and they put a clean mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments, and the angel of the Lord stood.

    6And the angel of the Lord protested to Jesus, saying: 7Thus saith the Lord of hosts: If thou wilt walk in my ways, and Beep my charge, thou also shalt judge my house, and shalt keep my courts, and I will give thee some of them that are now present here to walk with thee.

    8Hear, O Jesus thou high priest, then and thy friends that dwell before thee, for they are portending men: for behold I WILL BRING MY SERVANT THE ORIENT. 9For behold the stone that I have laid before Jesus: upon one stone there are seven eyes: behold I will grave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts: and I will take away the iniquity of that land in one day. 10In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, every man shell call his friend under the vine and under the fig tree.

    The above scripture is a depiction of Jesus and His mission.

     

    and love in Jesus Christ

     

    2) John the Baptist is Michael

    January 27, 2023 at 12:32 pm#942124
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Thanks for your reply, I hope you are having a good week.

    Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    Jesus did not promise eternal life before the world began, our One True God The Father gave HIS WORD to make mankind eternal.

    1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was WITH the Father, and was manifested unto us.

    As I also gave you,

    1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

    In the above we have God’s WORD that He will take a Son of Man and make him into His own Son and settle him into His house and in His kingdom for evermore. There exists no eternal son when God gave this promise.

    The resurrected Jesus is God’s WORD of eternal life promised to mankind made true, to which gives us hope because we are also mortal humans as he was.

    1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    I am just going to stop right here because you as well as others seem to lack a fundamental truth and it is apparent that it is causing blindness where you are unable to see clearly what so many scriptures teach. I will post about this next.

    January 27, 2023 at 3:09 pm#942126
    Jodi
    Participant

    To Berean and All,

    This one scripture below leads us to a great deal of light when applied to so many other passages and so I will be repeating it throughout this post.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;…31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    Rev 19:11 Then I saw heaven opened, and there was a white horse! Its rider is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.

    Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

    Isaiah 42: 1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

    Matthew 3: 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    1 John 3: 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him,

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

    Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

    Acts 2: 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Romans 1: 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    Romans 8: 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Matthew 20: 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

    Ezekiel 36: 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.

    1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy*; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    John 17: 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

    Matthew 16: 27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Matthew 19: 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 But hath in due times manifested his Word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

    1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was WITH the Father, and was manifested unto us..

    Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but THE SPIRIT IS LIFE BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    Ephesians 5: 9 FOR THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT IS IN ALL GOODNESS RIGHTEOUSNESS AND TRUTH.

    Romans 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.
    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    The Fundamental biblical truth is that our eternal life is held in being born of God’s Spirit to the cause of righteousness where we will walk in all His ways. By such there is no sin and thus no death. The promise of eternal life before the world began was a promise of inheriting God’s Spirit where we are to be led in all ways by that Spirit and thus are Sons of God, joint heirs with Christ.

    The above scriptures and sooo many more reveal many additional truths to which I will speak to a few of those below,

    Jesus was the only mortal human given the glory of God, he had received the Spirit without measure at the river Jordan. He was baptized, called to righteousness drinking of the one cup of the Spirit, born of the Spirit that descended upon him like a dove, made a Son of God filled with grace and truth, sent out into the world being led in all ways by the Spirit.

    With that Spirit he became our promised Christ as the man Jesus was ANOINTED to preach God’s word, perform God’s works, deliver captives bringing forth salvation.

    The Son of Man, Jesus, is returning in our Father’s glory to judge the world in righteousness. This man’s glory is God’s Spirit dwelling in him that he received by promise when he was resurrected from the dead. This man’s glory is that of a firstborn over a new heaven and earth, where he is appointed as a king of kings and a lord of lords sitting on his father David’s throne. 

    In our One True God the Father’s WORD before the world began was this man, him being called to righteousness, him being made a Son of God being born of the Spirit and thus led by the Spirit, him being for a light unto Jews and Gentiles, him dying on the cross bringing forth redemption, him being made into God’s firstborn a king higher than all kings, him bringing forth the end where God’s purpose from the beginning was to be ALL IN ALL, man living in the image of God for evermore. God’s WORD of eternal life exists through His WORD of a promised redeemer who would bring forth the promised WORD of life, the two cannot be separated.

    Our One True God the Father MADE ALL things, doing so by REASON OF and FOR the anointed man Jesus. This is obvious, as ALL things do not just pertain to the creation in Genesis, but that of MAKING also dominions where He made David a king and his son Jesus an eternal king of kings.

    Our redemption through Jesus Christ is because the man Jesus is proof that the Spirit does indeed cause righteousness in a HUMAN BEING. Man can do nothing of himself, the flesh profits us nothing, it is the Spirit that brings forth life because it is the Spirit that bears fruit to all goodness, righteousness and truth. This is why our hope is in our own promised inheritance to be made joint heir with Christ. Our hope is to be led by the Spirit as Jesus is led by the Spirit, to drink of the cup that he drinks of, where then we will be eternal Sons of God too. This is why God redeems us through ONE MAN, because if the man Jesus through the Spirit can obey all of God’s commands then we can too and thus there will be no sin and no death.

    Our One True God the Father IS LIFE, He gave the man Jesus LIFE and put all of mankind into his hands where Jesus is the man appointed by God to judge and give LIFE to others doing so through the power of the Spirit that dwells in him. This was all God’s WORD before the world began. God had declared the END from the beginning where a man would execute His purpose.

     

    January 27, 2023 at 9:07 pm#942130
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi

    This was all God’s WORD before the world began. God had declared the END from the beginning where a man would execute His purpose.

    Me: It’s pointless to make such long posts, all to try WITHOUT ACHIEVE, that Jesus is only a man.

    Jodi, since he WAS MADE FLESH, HE WAS NOT FLESH IN THE BEGINNING. PAUL TELLS US CLEARLY THAT HE WAS “IN THE FORM OF GOD”

    👉 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    When a prophecy comes true, we don’t say “it was made flesh”

    THE SON OF GOD “NAMED” THE WORD “WAS MADE FLESH” YES I BELIEVE AMEN!

    You’ll never be able to make me believe anything other than that… Besides, it’s USELESS, I tell you in advance.

    🙏

    January 27, 2023 at 9:26 pm#942131
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: born of the Spirit that descended upon him like a dove,

    Me: I’m afraid Jodi your preaching is ONLY in relation to your carnal-minded understanding regarding Jesus’ entire DIVINE/HUMAN process. A process commenced at the very beginning John1:1-4.

    In the above, YOU ARE FALSELY PREACHING THAT

    JESUS WAS BORN OF THE SPIRIT AT THE RIVER JORDAN. Read and accept the PURE truth:

    IF JESUS, WAS NOT THE GENUINE SACRIFICE OF GOD FOR THE REDEMPTION OF THE HUMAN RACE IN SATANIC FLESH AND BLOOD THROUGH EVE’S SIN,

    WAS NOT TOTALLY DIVINE EVEN AS A SON OF MAN, TO BE CLEAR:

    A UNIQUE HUMAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD BODY,

    THE NEW JERUSALEM.

    GOD THE FATHER WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN OUR SAVIOUR!

    Luke 1:31Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb,

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

    and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus.

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

     32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High;

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

    and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob forever. 33And of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done,

    because I know not man?

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

    35And the angel answering, said to her:

    The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

    ISN’T THE HOLY GHOST THE ACTUAL GENUINE SPIRIT OF GOD THE FATHER?

    YES OR NO. please.

    and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee.

    ARE YOU DENYING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    YES OR NO. please.

    THE POWER OF THE MOST HIGH ISN’T A CLEAR REFERENCE TO

    GOD ALMIGHTY?

    YES OR NO Please:

    I am convinced that it is a reference to

    GOD ALMIGHTY. 

    BUT IT SEEMS TO ME QUITE CLEAR, THAT YOU DO NOT PRACTICE WHAT YOU SAY THAT YOU BELIEVE, THAT THE ABOVE IS A REFERENCE TO GOD ALMIGHTY, 

    SINCE YOU WITHIN YOUR CARNAL-MINDED UNDERSTANDING TOOK IT FOR GRANTED THAT GOD ALMIGHTY, YOUR GOD ALMIGHTY I’M AFRAID, 

    TO CONCEIVE HIS SON, NEEDED, AND MADE USE BOTH OF THE CORRUPTED HUMAN OVUM AND SPERM TO HAVE HIS SON BORN OF A WOMAN! 

    SCRIPTURE IS CLEAR Jodi and in this case from now on, ALSO Gene, that

    FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S OWN WORK,

    IT IS HIS SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE TO HIS ENTIRE WORK,

    EVEN WHEN IT IS THE LEAST RELATED TO THE FLESH. 

    Read please:

    And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called

    the Son of God.

    Jodi, and Gene,

    MARY IN THAT INSTANT OF HER OWN WORDS

    “….Behold the handmaid of the Lord;

    be it DONE to me according to thy word.”

    immediately became the mother of

    the SON OF GOD

    IT IS THE WORD OF GOD NO? THEN DEFINITELY

    COMPLETE!

    You: made a Son of God filled with grace and truth,

    NO Jodi, NO THE ABOVE IS A PURE INVENTION COMING OUT FROM

    YOUR CARNAL-MINDED UNDERSTANDING.

    READ Jodi  THE PURE TRUTH AGAIN!

    BE IT DONE ACCORDING TO YOUR 

    “WORD” 

    I REPEAT: GOD’S OWN WORD Jodi,

    JESUS, HIMSELF IN THAT INSTANT BECAME

    THE SON OF GOD WITHIN MARY’S UNIQUE WOMB AS A WHOLE, WHO SHE  CARRIED WITHIN IT

    (1) THE POWER OF GOD ALMIGHTY

    (2) THE OVERSHADOWING OF 

    THE HOLY GHOST , and 

    (3) “THE WORD” made flesh

    JESUS”

    THE SON OF GOD!

    NOT AT THE RIVER JORDAN

    WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT’S YOUR PIGEON!

    1John5:7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven,

    the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost.

    And these three are one. 

    8And there are three that give testimony on earth:

    the spirit, and the water, and the blood:

    and these three are one.

    MORE TO COME

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

    January 28, 2023 at 5:08 am#942133
    Jodi
    Participant

    Berean,

    I am going to make this one as short as possible.

    Biblical facts,

    The Son of Man is coming in the glory of the Father where he makes righteous judgements through the Spirit of the Father that is dwelling in him, to which we read he received the Holy Spirit according to a PROMISE when he was raised from the dead. That promise was God’s WORD from the beginning, even before the world began. 

    Isaiah’s PROPHECIES, God’s WORD, is not yet fulfilled, to which Revelation 19 also speaks to.

    What is the glory of this Son of Man?

    What are we told as to how, when Jesus returns, he is able to fulfill God’s promises, God’s purpose that has been with Him from the beginning? 

    These two questions have the same answer,

    Our Heavenly Father’s Spirit, for it’s fruit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth and is LIFE because of righteousness, no sin and no death. 

    What is your answer Berean?

    January 28, 2023 at 5:12 am#942134
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    Me: Do you have any Bible verses to prove that
    1) In the BEGINNING, the name of the Son of God was Jesus

    You: John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,

    the Son of man who is in heaven.

    From the above, we are certain that Jesus, THE SON OF MAN, HUMAN,  pre-existed, and also, while He was on earth He also was in heaven.

    Me

    That doesn’t tell us
    that his name was Jesus IN THE BEGINNING
    WHEN HE CREATED OUR HEAVENS AND EARTH(JOHN 1)

    AND for John the baptist, You have no bible verse THAT Say he IS Michael or a little study THAT show This  IS the case.

    So 🤔

     

    January 28, 2023 at 5:12 am#942135
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    How about in my long post yesterday don’t read my own statements given at the end, but just read slowly and carefully through the scriptures I gave. I hope that is not too much to ask.

    January 28, 2023 at 5:35 am#942136
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    For the symbolic hundredth time I tell you that I do not believe in a purely human but divine-human Christ who put aside his divine attributes and who lived as a simple man by the HOLY SPIRIT surely.

    Who, being IN THE FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    [7] But made himself of no reputation, and TOOK UPON HIM the form of a servant, and was made in the LIKENESS OF MEN:
    [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    On the other hand you don’t trust the King Jame Bible, and not that
    because Paul tells us:

    “all things were created by him, and for him:
    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

    January 28, 2023 at 8:17 am#942137
    Jodi
    Participant

    Berean,

    I know what you believe and my purpose is giving you scripture to show you how it is in error. But you continue to ignore those scriptures, you refuse to discuss them.

    Tell me what those divine attributes that your pre-existing Jesus left behind were? 

    John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    Jesus didn’t leave glory behind Berean, he received it and then was sent out into the world.

    He received God’s DIVINE NATURE at the river Jordan, why he said that seeing him was actually seeing God who sent him and why we are told that the ANOINTED was in the form of God. He received the Spirit without measure, where he was equal to God but he made himself of no reputation, he gave all credit to God, even saying that he could do nothing of himself. 

    Can you not put simple two and two together?

    Did Isaiah not speak God’s WORD and it became true in the flesh of Jesus?

    John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Ephesians 5: 9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

    God’s WORD from Isaiah was that a man would receive God’s Spirit, a calling to righteousness for to be a light, a glory that God would give to any other. JESUS WAS FILLED WITH GRACE AND TRUTH BY BEING BORN OF GOD’S SPIRIT.

    Berean, Phil 2 says LET THIS MIND BE IN YOU THAT WAS ALSO IN CHRIST JESUS

    Did you ever ask yourself WHY it says that?? Or do you just not pay any attention to passages that don’t fit your doctrine, that seems plausible since you constantly refuse to speak to passages I give.

    Who was Paul speaking about????

    1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy*; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Jesus upon receiving the Spirit without measure became the FULL BODY OF GOD’S SPIRIT, he existed in the glorious image of God, the anointed Jesus sent out to be for a light was in the form of God.

    The men Paul speaks of in Phil 2 are these men in 1 Cor 12 who also received the Spirit each a gift where together they made up the body of the anointed Jesus for he received all the gifts of the Spirit. This body of men were sent out into the world, they were not of the world as Jesus was not of the world, they were sent as Jesus was sent, sent from heaven, sent from God. They were in the form of God via their gift of the Spirit and they needed to have the mind of the anointed Jesus, also make themselves of no reputation but give all glory to God recognizing that their works are through the Spirit, they too can do nothing of themselves.

     

    January 28, 2023 at 8:36 am#942138
    Jodi
    Participant

    To continue with more of Phil 2

    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    Jesus was made in the likeness of men, which is SIN,

    2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    Jesus walked to his death, he was mocked, spit on, beaten, finding himself in a situation where he is fashioned as a guilty man of sin, and then he was nailed to the cross to die, going through it all for our sake obeying God. If that is not humbling yourself I don’t know what is.

    Jesus was a man and he found himself in the fashion of all men, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, when God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us. He was numbered as if he himself was a transgressor.

    God then exalted him, the Son of Man to his right hand. This Son of Man is returning in the Father’s glory, that glory is God’s Spirit, whereby that Spirit Jesus fulfills the End that God had declared from the beginning, where nothing would have been made that was made in the beginning if not for this man that fulfills God’s will, all things were made by reason of and for him.

    January 28, 2023 at 8:42 am#942139
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi,  good try Sis, , but your words from scriptures frll on deat ears, just as the wouds i quoited did.  Sad…

    Peace and love to you and yours Jodi,……..gene

    January 28, 2023 at 8:47 am#942140
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,

    the Son of man who is in heaven.

    Me: From the above, we are certain that Jesus, THE SON OF MAN, HUMAN,  pre-existed, and also,

    while He was on earth He also was in heaven.

    Berean, according to Jesus above,  THE SON OF MAN, was both in heaven and on earth!

    DO YOU AGREE?

    Yes or No, please.

    January 28, 2023 at 9:43 am#942141
    Berean
    Participant

    Carmel

    HE WAS IN THE HEART OF GOD !

    BUT NOT WITH HIS HUMAN BODY

    But that’s not really the important point…

    THE NAME OF JESUS IN THE BEGINNING IWAS”THE WORD OF GOD”
    BECAUSE GOD CREATE BY HIM ALL THINGS.
    👉 JOHN 1

    🙏

     

     

    January 28, 2023 at 9:59 am#942142
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    I do not fit into your reasoning which ALWAYS results in denying Christ as creator of all things.

    👉 all things were created by him, and for him:
    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.👈

    THIS IS ONE OF ITS ATTRIBUTES
    HE IS OMNIPOTENT

    POWERFUL MY JESUS!

    Isaiah 9:6

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 

    🙏

    AMEN!

    January 28, 2023 at 10:46 am#942143
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: born of the Spirit that descended upon him like a dove,

    I repeat AGAIN:

    You are preaching Jodi, that Jesus

    AT THE RIVER JORDAN WAS

    BORN OF THE SPIRIT/THE HOLY GHOST!

    Read hereunder please:

    Matthew 1:18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together,

    she was found with child,

    OF THE HOLY GHOST.

    Jodi, JESUS WAS NOT A FETUS in His mother’s womb,

    BUT ALREADY A CHILD, and OF THE HOLY GHOST!

    to make it clear to you:

    JESUS WAS BORN OF THE SPIRIT, THE HOLY GHOST, IN HIS MOTHER’S WOMB.

    NOT AT THE RIVER JORDAN, as you falsely preach. 

    to the next absurdity

    You: made a Son of God filled with grace and truth,

    In the above, you again preached that Jesus at the river Jordan was

    MADE A SON OF GOD!

    Again read the scripture hereunder please:

    Luke 1:31Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great,

    and shall be called the Son of the most High;….       

     35 And the angel answering, said to her:

    The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,

    and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee.

    And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called

    the Son of God.

     

    Jodi, JESUS WAS BORN THE SON OF GOD.

    NOT MADE A SON OF GOD AT THE RIVER JORDAN AS YOU FALSELY PREACH.

    TO THE NEXT ABSURDITY:

    You: sent out into the world being led in all ways by the Spirit.

     

    John 10:36 Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and

    sent into the world:

    Thou blasphemest, because I said,

    I am the Son of God? 

    Jodi, in the above JESUS, WAS SENT INTO THE WORLD, NOT AS YOU FALSELY PREACH, THAT HE WAS SENT OUT INTO THE WORLD!

    HE ALSO SAID THAT

    HE IS THE SON OF GOD,

    HE NEVER SAID HE WAS MADE A SON OF GOD, AS YOU FALSELY PREACH.

    John 3:17 For God SENT not his Son INTO THE WORLD,

    to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. 18He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    IN THE ABOVE, Jodi, JESUS AGAIN MADE IT CLEAR AND SAID THAT  HE WAS SENT INTO THE WORLD, and ALSO THAT

    HE IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD!

    FROM THE VERY BEGINNING John1:1

    More scriptures:

    1 John4:9 By this hath the charity of God appeared towards us,

    because God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world,

    that we may live by him.

    Now to

    John16:I came forth from the Father,

    and am come into the world:

    again I leave the world, and I go to the Father.

    Jodi, THERE’S NO DOUBT AT ALL,

    JESUS CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER, and

    CAME INTO THE WORLD!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    January 28, 2023 at 11:43 am#942145
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Who is the WORD?

    His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    Scripture clearly answers this question. Why doubt? Because it doesn’t fit your own understanding?

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