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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • September 19, 2021 at 7:45 am#890537
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Adam:  And there is no proof that God created these gods (or angels) which you claim as immortals.

    Adam, you didn’t actually SAY anything in that post.  You quoted some source that opines that Yahweh is talking to human rulers in Psalm 82.  That’s utterly nonsensical, and we can delve deeper into that if you’d like.

    For now, the answer to the above (which is the only thought you offered on the matter) is in Psalm 82, in the words… “I have called you gods, but you will die like mortal men.”

    Not only does that make clear that God wasn’t talking to men (who would have died like mortal men anyway), but it also makes clear that the gods Yahweh was talking to were NOT subject to death, and therefore His judgement was that they would be destroyed and die like mortal men by His power (not natural death like all mortal men already suffer).  Creatures who are not subject to natural or accidental death are “immortal”.

    And although I find it funny that you would quote an NT verse to support your argument, 1 Timothy 6:16 refers to God’s immortality, which cannot be taken away by anyone.  The immortality of God’s sons can be ended by God if He so chooses.

    Here’s what God says in Enoch to the gods who mated with human women…

    Enoch 15…  And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you…

    God gave men wives to beget children because men die.  He did not give His spirit sons wives to beget children because they are immortal. God’s punishment on these gods was that they be bound and imprisoned until judgement day, when they’ll be cast into the lake of fire and perish.

    September 19, 2021 at 8:20 am#890539
    Berean
    Participant

    God bless

    September 19, 2021 at 8:31 am#890540
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike

    Prov 8:22…  Yahweh created me as the first of His works…

    ME: The above translation is the least popular of all translations!

    But let’s see what this verse actually says!

    First and foremost JESUS IS A PERFECT PARADOX!

    Thus Jesus is both created and not created!

    the fact that all is created by him, in him, and for him!

    Mike, We have a soul, the soul is of God, a spirit creature, the soul was born in us,  but in actual fact, it is also not born, as the soul existed before our birth, and entered into us through the sperm at the moment of conception. Thus the soul is created AS  A HUMAN BEING  precisely on the birth of a human being!  but in actual fact, the soul is not created at that moment in time of birth, but well before, NO?

    Now let’s read the above verse from within this perception.

    Yahweh created me as the first of His works…

    …….AS THE FIRST OF HIS WORKS!

    GOT IT, Mike?

    WHAT WAS THE FIRST OF GOD’S WORKS?

    LUCIFER!

    THE LIGHT BRINGER! THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT!

    WHY HE IS CALLED AS SUCH, OBVIOUS BECAUSE THE TRUE LIGHT, THE TRUE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT, WAS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, JESUS AS A SPIRIT, ETERNAL LIFE,  

    THE SPIRIT OF THE SON, IN LUCIFER’S HEART AT ALL COSTS.

    Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father.

     7Therefore now he is not a servant, but a son.

    And if a son, an heir also through God.

    SIMPLY SO LUCIFER WOULD NEVER BE ERADICATED TOTALLY BY GOD WITH THE LEAST INTENTION OF SIN IN HIS HEART SINCE HIS SON IS SACRIFICED IN LUCIFER, PRECISELY IN LUCIFER’S HEART, AS ETERNAL LIFE,

    IT WOULD BE A SUICIDE, NO?

    TO ERADICATE HIS OWN SPOKEN WORD, HIS SON, JESUS, DIVINE!

    GOD ALL-KNOWING THE SON OF MAN TO BE,

    BECAUSE OF A MERE CREATURE, SATAN TO BE,  THE FACT THT JESUS WAS SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev 13:8.  PRECISELY TO REDEEM LUCIFER/SATAN IN THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, ON THE CROSS!

    You:

    Psalm 2:7… You are my son.  This very day I have brought you forth into existence…

    THE ABOVE IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT STORY! 

    READ THIS TRANSLATION:

    7The Lord hath said to me: Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee.

    THE TERM BEGOTTEN OF GOD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TERM BEGOTTEN OF MAN!

    IN THE SAME WAY, JESUS WAS NOT BORN AS A HUMAN BEING WAS, THROUGH SEX,  BUT OF THE HOLY GHOST,

    BELIEVE IT OR NOT

    AS A SPIRIT OUT OF MARY FIRST,  THE LIGHT! READ:

    John12:46 I have come into the world AS LIGHT,

    Then God the Father furnished Jesus with His flesh, 

    THE FATHER’S SUBSTANCE! SO THE FATHER WOULD BE OUR SAVIOUR!well clear in,

    Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith: Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldest not:

    but a body thou hast fitted to me:

    Nevertheless still, A SON OF ABRAHAM, and A SON OF DAVID. 

    Micah 5:2… His origin is from days of old, ancient times…

    ME:  AND HOW!

    Col 1:15…  He is the firstborn of every creature…

    ME: AND THE FIRST CREATURE WAS LUCIFER! THUS

    JESUS WAS THE FIRSTBORN OF LUCIFER! OF EVERY CREATURE ALL IN LUCIFER, IN RELATION TO THE LIGHT/WISDOM!

    HUMANITY!

    Matthew 5:14You are the light of the world….

    YOU: Rev 3:14… I am the beginning of the creation by God…

    ME: THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD IS LUCIFER!

    THE LIGHT-BRINGER, THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT, THE MORNING STAR!

    THE FIRST EMBODIMENT OF “THE WORD”, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN.

    THE BEGINNING OF ALL BEGINNINGS!

    THUS JESUS WAS IN LUCIFER HIS CREATOR IN HIS HEART, IN THE SAME WAY, HE WOULD ALSO BE IN HUMANS ON THEIR CONCEPTION AT ALL COSTS!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    September 19, 2021 at 9:49 am#890541
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: Actually, I’m declaring that Jesus is neither “God”, nor “mankind”.  He is the mediator BETWEEN those two parties. 

    No mediator can BE one of the parties that he mediates BETWEEN.

    ME: PERFECT Mike!

    JESUS IS NEITHER ONE NOR THE OTHER, TO BE CLEAR,

    JESUS IS NEITHER  GOD, NOR MAN, BUT

    BOTH! 

    BOTH VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE!  THE FATHER AND HUMANS ARE NOT

    BOTH A FATHER AND  A SON!  THE FATHER AND HUMANS ARE NOT

    BOTH  SPIRIT AND FLESH! THE FATHER AND HUMANS ARE NOT

    BOTH GOD AND MAN! THE FATHER AND HUMANS ARE NOT! HE IS UNIQUE

    GODMAN!

    JESUS THEREFORE IS THE ONE AND ONLY

    PERFECT MEDIATOR

    Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not of one:

    but God is one. 

    As clear as crystal Mike, A MEDIATOR  MUST BE ACCEPTED FROM BOTH PARTIES NO?

    NOW SINCE GOD IS ONE, HE  ACCEPTS ONLY HIS OWN MEDIATOR,

    HIS OWN DIVINE SON,  NO ONE ELSE IS JUSTIFIED!

    Now, Could you expand and explain what you mean, please.

    TO ME IT’S PURE NONSENSE!

    ALL PARTIES INVOLVED IN THE DISPUTE ARE ALL HUMANS! NO!

    ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT A MEDIATOR BETWEEN TWO MEN MUST BE A GAY!

    OK! LET’S BE MORE PRACTICAL,

    THERE IS A DISPUTE BETWEEN A LAWYER AND AN ARCHITECT !

    DO YOU MEAN THAT A MEDIATOR CANNOT BE  ANOTHER  LAWYER OR ANOTHER ARCHITECT?

    ON THE OTHER HAND, IF THE MEDIATOR HAPPENED TO BE BOTH A LAWYER AND AN ARCHITECT,  DOESN’T MEAN THAT HE WOULD BE MORE IN THE POSITION TO UNDERSTAND AND SOLVE THE DISPUTE SINCE HE WOULD BE EXPERIENCED IN BOTH PROFESSIONS?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

    September 19, 2021 at 1:09 pm#890544
    gadam123
    Participant

    And although I find it funny that you would quote an NT verse to support your argument, 1 Timothy 6:16 refers to God’s immortality, which cannot be taken away by anyone.  The immortality of God’s sons can be ended by God if He so chooses.

    Here’s what God says in Enoch to the gods who mated with human women…

    Hi Mike, yes I have quoted the NT to show you the reference on immortality as your beliefs are based on the NT and where the writer of the 1 Timothy states that God alone is immortal.

    The so called Pseudo writing, the book of Enoch is a non-canonical book and if you want to base your arguments you can find many such books during the Intertestamental period.

    I was arguing that God is not a man (or can not become a man). An immortal being can not become mortal if so there is no meaning of immortality. If Jesus was literally begotten from God and is another immortal being, how can he leave his immortality and become like a man and die like a mortal?

    So these are my arguments.

    September 19, 2021 at 1:15 pm#890548
    gadam123
    Participant

    Please first prove that God actually exists via the Hebrew Bible.

    It’s funny too as you are avoiding my question on Jesus’ Messiahship. I need not prove the existence of God based on Hebrew Bible as it’s also the part of the Christian Bible.

    September 19, 2021 at 1:16 pm#890549
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    An immortal being can not become mortal.

    Being immortal doesn’t discount shedding your body for a new one. That is merely physical death.

    Jesus is still alive.

    September 19, 2021 at 1:18 pm#890550
    gadam123
    Participant

    Being immortal doesn’t discount shedding your body for a new one. That is merely physical death.

    Jesus is still alive.

    Hi Proclaimer, do you mean Jesus did not really die like any mortal?

    You are talking like a person who believes in the immortality of the soul and reincarnation. We have such beliefs in our Hinduism.

    September 19, 2021 at 1:23 pm#890552
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I’m making the point that immortality is eternal life. And some people here in these forums have eternal life, yet they will also physically die.

    September 19, 2021 at 1:41 pm#890553
    gadam123
    Participant

    I’m making the point that immortality is eternal life. And some people here in these forums have eternal life, yet they will also physically die.

    I am sorry your earlier post was sounding like immortality of soul and reincarnation. Yes the immortality means no more mortality and may be it is also eternal life.

    So what is your opinion on Jesus in this context?

    September 19, 2021 at 1:51 pm#890554
    gadam123
    Participant

    In other words, your source did nothing to refute my own belief that Ps 2:7 is Jesus telling how God brought him forth as the first of His works, making Jesus’ sonship much more literal than, say, David’s or the nation of Israel’s.

    Hi Mike, my source was arguing against the literal sons of God in the Hebrew Bible and the context of Ps 2 was about the Coronation of the Jewish King, David.

    First answer to LU on her question of ‘this day’ which the Psalm 2 was talking about.

    September 19, 2021 at 1:58 pm#890555
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Man by default is not immortal

    I am sorry your earlier post was sounding like immortality of soul and reincarnation. Yes the immortality means no more mortality and may be it is also eternal life.  So what is your opinion on Jesus in this context?

    It is a popular doctrine that man’s soul is immortal and thus when they go to Hell, they are alive in Hell for eternity. This is not biblical at all. As for Jesus, he was without sin. He is the final Adam. He is in this respect what Adam should have been.

    Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil.
    And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever…”
    Therefore the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

    September 19, 2021 at 3:42 pm#890558
    gadam123
    Participant

    It is a popular doctrine that man’s soul is immortal and thus when they go to Hell, they are alive in Hell for eternity. This is not biblical at all.

    Yes the immortality of soul was originated in Greek mythology and based on Platonic idea. I find most of the Christianity too believe this idea and even some of the texts of the NT seem to support this idea.

    As for Jesus, he was without sin. He is the final Adam. He is in this respect what Adam should have been.

    Your above statement on Jesus is reasonable as long as he was not preexisting prior to his birth like any human being as Adam was not preexisting otherwise it proves the immortality of soul for Jesus to keep his previous identity.

    September 20, 2021 at 3:26 am#890568
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.    

    Jesus is not among the creatures who give glory to God and to the Lamb, because HE IS not a creature…

    This is a valid argument, Berean.  It is way better than your usual arguments where you quote scriptures that don’t actually say/mean what you claim they do.  But consider…

    Phil 2:9-11…  Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    If Jesus is not among those who bend the knee before Jesus, does it mean it’s because he doesn’t have knees?  Or is Jesus excluded from the bowing because of a more logical reason?  I say Jesus is excluded – not because he is the only member of heaven without knees – but because, although he has knees, it would be absurd for him to bow to himself.  Would you agree with that?

    If so, then we can use that same logical reasoning to address your argument, right?  Perhaps Jesus is not among the creatures who proclaim glory and honor to the Lamb – not because he isn’t a creature – but because it would be absurd for the Lamb to sing praises and blessings to himself.

    Also consider…

    Acts 4:24-30…  “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them…  Herod and Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles and the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed…   stretch out Your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.”

    If your verse insists that Jesus is not among those who were created by God, then this prayer insists that Jesus was among those who were created by God – since he is clearly a part of “everything in them” that was made by God.

     

    September 20, 2021 at 3:59 am#890570
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike:  Gene, why can’t you understand that passage as it is written – without adding your own twists into it?

    Gene:  Mike…..All things came from heaven, that exists on this earth even us. 

    This is one of those twists I was talking about, Gene.  Can you show me from scripture that all things come from heaven, including us?

    Gene:  Jesus said even his disciples were from above…

    I’d like to see that scripture too.

    Gene:  That simply means they were in the plan and purpose of God the Father , who is above,  before the world ever existed, we all were in his plan, before  this world ever existed.

    More twisting.  Gene, is it your argument that the Jews to whom Jesus said, “I have come down from heaven” were not as smart as you, because they thought Jesus was literally saying he came down from heaven when he was really only saying that ALL OF US came down from heaven because we existed in a plan that God had before this world ever existed?

    Why do you think Jesus didn’t correct them and just explain it to them like you have explained it to me?  Instead, he kept on claiming that he came down from heaven – even after he knew they were taking his claim literally.  Is it even remotely possible that he did that because he was making a literal claim?

    September 20, 2021 at 4:14 am#890571
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    LU: Hi Mike,

    The statement “today I have begotten you”… was said on the resurrection day. Jesus was begotten from the dead and thus firstborn from the dead.

    Show me in scripture that this is when the statement was actually made.

    LU:  Clearly though, the Father was Jesus’ father before the resurrection day.

    Correct – which argues against your understanding of what I presume to be Acts 13:33.  It would be odd to claim that Jesus became “the begotten son of God” by being raised from the dead, especially when we know that God sent His only-begotten into the world, and that God offered up His only-begotten as a sacrifice to atone for our sins – both of which happened before he was raised from the dead.

    The only logical understanding of Ps 2:7 is that the words were originally said on the very day that God created Jesus as the first of His works.

    September 20, 2021 at 5:31 am#890572
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Mike,

    Was Jesus begotten from the grave? If so, by whom?

    September 20, 2021 at 6:01 am#890573
    Berean
    Participant

    Mike

    You

    Perhaps Jesus is not among the creatures who proclaim glory and honor to the Lamb – not because he isn’t a creature – but because it would be absurd for the Lamb to sing praises and blessings to himself.

     

    Me

    If Jesus was a creature before HIS incarnation

    he could not become the savior of the world, and therefore be worshiped from his birth on earth.

    BUT BECAUSE Jesus covered our humanity on his divinity, HE WAS  QUALIFIED TO BECOME THE SAVIOR IF THE WORLD 👇

    Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him(form of God) the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    BUT THIS WAS NOT ENOUGH:👇


    [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

     

    September 20, 2021 at 6:34 am#890574
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Lu,

    YOU: The statement “today I have begotten you” is not said after Jesus’ baptism.

    Me: I agree 100%.

    YOU: That was said on the resurrection day.

    Me: In view of the above it is not as simple as it looks. 

    IN FULL HUMILITY AND THANKS FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO ENLIGHTENED ME, A MERE MORTAL AND SINNER,

    ALLOW ME TO CLARIFY  IN THIS REGARD THE HIDDEN THINGS OF GOD!

    Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said: I confess to thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to the little ones. 26Yea, Father; for so hath it seemed good in thy sight.

    Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying: Tell the vision to no man, till the Son of man be risen from the dead.

    Jesus mentioned this phrase “risen from the dead” after the transfiguration. He also mentioned the term

    “the Son of Man”. It was Jesus the Son of Man “THE WORD” that died not the Son of God, the Holy Ghost attributed to the Son, in Jesus’soul, as He could not die since He is a spirit! The transfiguration is definitely a clear reference to the Son of God, asserted by God Himself. Thus Jesus on mount Tabor anticipated His glorification ON HIS DEATH, John13:31-32, John17:1,  both spirit, and flesh, both the Holy Ghost and “THE WORD” INTEGRATED AS ONE GLORIFIED

    GODMAN!

    Jesus was never required to be resurrected since He glorified immediately by death itself by which He eradicated death, and transformed it into life, manifested on earth by those saints who came out from their graves risen from the dead. EVEN BEFORE JESUS, THE SON OF MAN DID. Why didn’t Jesus also from the cross come back to life after He died, what was the reason that He didn’t do so, He definitely could, since HE WAS GLORIFIED AND IN FULL POWER! 

    Jesus, “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN, died and gave Himself as a ransom IN EXCHANGE FOR THE HUMAN RACE. To be clear, in order to give His dead body to the human race, well asserted in the last supper by His own words:

    ….THIS IS MY BODY WHICH IS GIVEN FOR YOU…..

    Precisely on His resurrection. Jesus, the Son of Man, in order to resurrect and give His body to the human race, he could only do so BY HIS OWN SPIRIT, SIMPLY AS ONLY HIS SPIRIT “THE WORD” WAS ENGRAFTED IN ALL CREATURES and sealed in the entire process of the world, ALL IN HIM, and ALL BY HIM. Well HINTED OUT by Jesus’own words on the cross,

    …..into thy hands I commend MY SPIRIT. And saying this, he gave up THE GHOST.

    The Holy Ghost in Jesus’soul.

    ORIGINALLY SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD, Rev.13:8 precisely ETERNAL LIFE, engrafted in all souls/spirits from the very beginning, in Lucifer, the original spirit of the human race in flesh and blood. Jesus declared that flesh counts for nothing it is THE SPIRIT WHICH GIVES LIFE. It is His spirit that gave life to His own dead body, John10:18, and this spirit was allocated to the human race from the beginning as ETERNAL LIFE, DURING THE PROCESS OF CREATION OF WHICH  SPIRIT JESUS EMPTIED HIMSELF FROM HIS DIVINITY AND BECAME  PRECISELY

    THE  SON OF MAN!

    YOU: Jesus was begotten from the dead and thus firstborn from the dead.

    Now this term “FROM THE DEAD” is a reference to ALL SOULS SPIRITUALLY DEAD BOTH IN HELL AND ON EARTH WITH SATAN’S SPIRIT IN THEIR SOULS ON ADAM’S SIN! SATAN’S PROPERTY, IN A WAY AS “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man to be,  was both in Satan’s heart of stone and in all souls, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB…..Rev.13:8, purposely humbly and meekly waited for that hour of His death on the cross, to both glorify and redeem the human race! John17:1,2.  More specifically mentioned in

    John12:23 But Jesus answered them, saying: The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24Amen, amen I say to you, unless the grain of wheat falling into the ground die, 25Itself remaineth alone. But if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world, keepeth it unto life eternal. 26If any man minister to me, let him follow me; and where I am, there also shall my minister be. If any man minister to me, him will my Father honour.

    27Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause I came unto this hour. 28Father, glorify thy name. A voice therefore came from heaven: I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29The multitude therefore that stood and heard, said that it thundered. Others said: An angel spoke to him. 30Jesus answered, and said:

    THIS VOICE CAME NOT BECAUSE OF ME, BUT FOR YOUR SAKE.

     31Now is the judgment of the world:

    now shall the prince of this world be cast out. (FROM ALL SOULS, AND THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF THE WORLD, asserted hereunder:)

    32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself. 

    YOU: Clearly though, the Father was Jesus’ father before the resurrection day.

    The above Lu, as a reference to Jesus’dead body, IS NOT QUITE PRECISE!

    Jesus, THE SON OF GOD, THE HOLY GHOST, IN JESUS’SOUL, Jesus’divine nature, was/is definitely THE FATHER’S SON, ETERNALLY, AND NEVER BEGOTTEN! But when we talk about “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, Jesus, the Son of Man, JESUS’HUMAN NATURE, is a completely different story altogether, as “THE WORD”Jesus, left the Father’s MOUTH, emptied himself OF HIS DIVINITY, He poured His entire spirit over creation, ETERNAL LIFE, John 6:27, by which process He became a carrier of both good and evil, was born in all things like humans, EXCEPT SIN, and He died the death. Consequently, this spirit “THE WORD” spoken of God, the Son of Man, engrafted in all souls SPIRITUALLY DEAD BOTH IN HELL AND ON EARTH, ORIGINALLY SLAIN ….Rev.13:8

    WAS NOT SLAIN ANY MORE but glorified John13-31-32 and became ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST

    HENCE ALIVE AND ACTIVE, Hebrews 4:12, thus once Jesus, was taken by Satan, as his NORMAL procedure for the last time, into hell as a criminal, JESUS, TRANSFORMED HIMSELF INTO THE GLORIFIED SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY ANTICIPATED BY JESUS ON MOUNT TABOR! Jesus preached His Gospel to all those in hell, 1Peter3:18-19, now keep in mind, “THE WORD” Jesus’spirit was ALIVE AND ACTIVE IN THEM, FOR THE FIRST-EVER TIME SINCE THE REBEL IN HEAVEN, John8:23-26,  thus, as soon as they heard Jesus’VOICE and His “WORDS” all shouted and said

    JESUS SON OF DAVID HAVE MERCY ON ME!

    John 10:27 My sheep HEAR MY VOICE: and I know them, and they FOLLOW ME.

    John5:25 Amen, amen I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the DEAD (SPIRITUALLY DEAD IN HELL AND ON EARTH) shall hear the voice of the Son of God, (NOTICE THE SON OF GOD, a reference to the Holy Ghost,  NOT THE SON OF MAN, SINCE JESUS BODY WAS IN HIS TOMB)  and

    they that hear shall live. 

    Now in verse 27, Jesus made clear and said:

    And he hath given him power to do judgment,

    because he is the Son of man.

    OK? as clear as crystal JESUS WENT TO HELL GLORIFIED BOTH THE SON OF GOD AND THE SON OF MAN, BOTH SPIRIT IN THE HOLY GHOST AND FLESH IN “THE WORD” made flesh. Satan’s dream!

    Satan stunned, simply accepted THE TRUTH, that he was eradicated from all souls, HIS suppossed PROPERTY, Luke17: 20-37, Mark 3:27, but the most vital:

    Jesus, glorified SON OF GOD/THE SON OF MAN  was 

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD  GLORIFIED IN HIS DIVINE/HUMAN SPIRITUAL FLESH, by which task GOD THE FATHER WAS KNOWN FOR THE FIRST-EVER TIME  AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST, even before the world was John 17:5, John13:31-32, John17:10. 

    Jesus’ dead body was not in the position to come back to life immediately, despite the fact that HE HAD THE POWER,  at least not before Jesus was confirmed precisely in hell, Satan’s headquarters, that HE WAS THE TRUTH GLORIFIED AS

    GODMAN!

    At that moment in time, Unique both in hell and on earth, for forty days, by which task Jesus became the sole sovereign over the entire cosmos, God’s kingdom came, God’s will was on earth as it is in heaven, Thus after TRUTH was confirmed and justified, as Jesus Himself predicted, on the third day, His dead body  received ATTENTION PLEASE,

    His own spirit,

    originally slain from the beginning of the world,

    IN ALL THE DEAD SOULS. Both in hell and on earth, which means that

    the entire human race was embodied  and resurrected ALL AUTHENTIC BROTHERS in

    Jesus’body! AS DECLARED BY JESUS in the last supper.

    1Peter1:3 Blessed be THE God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath REGENERATED us unto a lively hope,

    by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Reflect on the above: Jesus glorified on the cross as

    JESUS CHRIST,

    GODMAN, and at the same time,

    JESUS’SPIRIT, “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN, SLAIN….. Rev.13:8 IN ALL SOULS, ORIGINALLY DEAD,

    ALSO GLORIFIED IN 

    JESUS CHRIST DESPITE SLAIN and also from WITHIN THE DEAD SOULS!

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN DIED, JESUS THE SON OF GOD GLORIFIED IN BOTH NATURES, BY WHICH GLORY JESUS’SPIRIT SLAIN IN ALL DEAD SOULS, BECAME ALIVE AND GLORIFIED.

    2Corinthians 12:9And he said to me: My grace is sufficient for thee;

    for power is made perfect in infirmity…..

    10…For when I am weak, then am I powerful.

    In view of all the above, Jesus on His resurrection, though the same Jesus who died on the cross, body-wise, as a substance, was the entire human race, 1Peter 1:3, hence NOT PERFECT YET,

    ONLY GOD IS PERFECT! Precisely

    THE HOLY GHOST ONE SUBSTANCE WITH “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, in

    JESUS CHRIST  ON JESUS DEATH ON THE CROSS

    GODMAN!

    The Holy Ghost possessed for the first-ever time A FLESH BODY! Acts 20:28

    THUS BOTH JESUS’RESURRECTED BODY,

    the man born again from the dead, John3:3, THE NEW ADAM,

    THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, and

    JESUS CHRIST GODMAN ON THE CROSS WERE NOT TWO ANYMORE but INTEGRATED and BECAME 

    TWO IN ONE  GLORIFIED DIVINE/HUMAN SPIRITUAL FLESH, WITH

    ONE DIVINE/CREATURE HEART! that same evening of Jesus’ resurrection, 

    Jeremiah 32:39And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me all days 

    Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them ONE HEART, and will put a NEW SPIRIT in their bowels: and I will take away the STONY heart out of their flesh, and will give them

    A HEART OF FLESH: 

    “THE WORD” MADE FLESH!

    THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE ONE SUBSTANCE WITH JESUS CHRIST 

    GODMAN. 

    You are my Son, today I have begotten you.

    This glorified body of Jesus Christ, ONE SUBSTANCE with the entire humanity would eventually be HANDED OVER BY JESUS TO

    GOD THE FATHER on the last day of THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.

    HUMANITY ONE WITH GOD THE FATHER IN

    THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST

    GOD OF ALL FLESH

    John16:25 These things I have spoken to you in proverbs. The hour cometh, when I will no more speak to you in proverbs,

    but will shew you plainly of the Father.

    Jeremiah: 32:27 Behold I am THE LORD THE God of all flesh:

    shall anything be hard for me? 

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

    September 20, 2021 at 11:39 am#890575
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Jesus is both the firstborn of all creation and the firstborn from the dead. Some people think this is the same thing. but clearly it is not as this scripture mentions both.

    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
    For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church;
    AND He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,
    so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 

    So he is both:

    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation…
    AND He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,

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