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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 23,221 through 23,240 (of 25,925 total)
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  • September 6, 2021 at 2:12 am#873450
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…….All creation has the attributes of God in it.  His Seven Spirits,  go out into all the earth.
    Why do you people constantly want to make Jesus different then we are, haven’t you ever read, “God is not a respecter of persons”. & “God in “all” and through “all”. When are you really going to start to believe Jesus when he said this?,  ” this “is” eternal life,  that they might know “YOU” the “ONLY” “TRUE”  GOD, and Jesus Christ who “YOU” HAVE SENT.”

    DOES ANYONE HERE KNOW WHAT THE WORD “ONLY” means?  

    I could be wrong, but I was taught that meant, there is “NO” OTHER.

    BEREAN if you say you believe Jesus , when are you going to start to believe those words of his? Come on Berean, if you can’t believe these words,  how can we take you seriously about other things brother?

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

     

     

     

     

    September 6, 2021 at 2:35 am#873451
    gadam123
    Participant

    Why do you people constantly want to make Jesus different then we are, haven’t you ever read, “God is not a respecter of persons”. & “God in “all” and through “all”. When are you really going to start to believe Jesus when he said this?,  ” this “is” eternal life,  that they might know “YOU” the “ONLY” “TRUE”  GOD, and Jesus Christ who “YOU” HAVE SENT.”

    Hi brother Gene, this is the dialogue often quoted here on this Forum. Believing and knowing  a human Messiah for securing the so called eternal life is no where found in the Hebrew Bible. This is the new invention of the writer of the Fourth Gospel.

    September 6, 2021 at 2:46 am#873452
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU………The word “born”  is not the same as “begotten” ,  as I recall,  

    To be begotten,  is the process to being born, that happens at conception ,  when we received the Holy Spirit into us we are begotten , when we are resurrected we are then Born.  Jesus was the first to be begotten, of God himself from mankind, and then at his resurrection from the dead, the first “born” .

    when the voice from heaven said “this day I have begotten you”  that Did not mean he was born that day, but he was begotten that day,  that took place when he received the Holy Spirit after he was BAPTIZED by John . He was born Again when he was resurrected from the grave.

    We must also achieve the exact same thing,  remember what Jesus said,  “you must  born again” , those who have received the Holy Spirit now are “begotten” , we are still subject to death, but when we are resurrected , we then are “born again’’  both things will have happened,  a begotten process and a birth.

    That’s the way I see it,  Jesus was the first to complete that process of “many brethren”.

    peace and love to you and yours……….gene

    September 6, 2021 at 2:52 am#873453
    Berean
    Participant

    Gadam

    this is the dialogue often quoted here on this Forum. Believing in a human Messiah for securing the so called eternal life is no where found in the Hebrew Bible. This is the new invention of the writer of the Fourth Gospel.

     

    Me

    Certainly not, John knew that the Son of God was God in the beginning and that he was made flesh. This is confirmed by Paul at Colossians 2: 9 which says that:
    In Christ “dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” (Divinity with humanity) Amen!

    To the Philippians he will say:
    Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    [7] But made himself of no reputation, and TOOK UPON HIMSELF THE FORM OF A SERVANT AND WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN:
    [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    September 6, 2021 at 4:39 am#873454
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Adam……..The Lord shall raise up unto you, a “prophet”  like me, from your brethren,  “unto him shall you head” . Moses was a Messiah , just like Jesus, and was from Israel to, but what did Moses say we should we do?, ” unto “him” shall you head”.   Jesus is that “prophet”  you will do good to listen to him.  No matter what those critical Jewish scholars are telling you. They don ‘t know a once more about scriptures , then we do, in fact they know less, if the truth be known.

    JESUS IS THAT “PROPHET”, Moses spoke about,   NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. 

    Peace and love to you and your Adam………gene

    September 6, 2021 at 4:44 am#873455
    Berean
    Participant

    John 18:37

    Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king.

    To this end was I born(Gennao), and for this cause came I into the world,

    that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

     

    was I born(gennao)

    gennaw
    gennao
    ghen-nah’-o
    from a variation of genoV – genos 1085; to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:–bear, beget,  born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

    September 6, 2021 at 4:44 am#873456
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Carmel: Now read again:

    Rev 1:1… The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him…..

    In the above PHRASE:

    WHICH GOD GAVE HIM means

    THE TITLE OF
    THE GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST,

    THE ONLY BEING EMPOWERED BOTH WITH 

    ALL GOD’S THINGS AND ALL HUMAN THINGS,

    GODMAN! 
    GAVE HIM, JESUS CHRIST, ALL AUTHORITIES AND POWERS….. 

    This is worded very confusingly.  It sounds like you are now attributing the title of “GODMAN” to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus the christ of God.

    My question was why Jesus, who was exalted to full power in heaven at the time, is still delivering messages from God.  Understand?  Why did God have to give the revelation to Jesus, who then gave it to another angel, who then gave it to John?

    Do you refute that it was God who gave the revelation to Jesus to pass on to John?

    Carmel: BUT JESUS CHRIST POSSESSES THE UNIQUE GLORIFIED SPIRITUAL FLESH!
    SATAN’S DREAM!

    In which scripture(s) can I read about “glorified spiritual flesh”?  To me this idea certainly does sound like a dream concocted by Satan.  Are you absolutely sure that it’s Jesus filling your head with these things, and not Satan?

    September 6, 2021 at 4:47 am#873457
    gadam123
    Participant

    JESUS IS THAT “PROPHET”, Moses spoke about,   NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

    Hi brother Gene, if Jesus was a prophet like Moses we need not believe in him or know him for getting the eternal life as claimed by the Fourth Gospel in John 17:3.

    September 6, 2021 at 4:51 am#873458
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Carmel:  JESUS IS THE FIRSTBORN OF LUCIFER!

    IN THE BEGINNING (LUCIFER) WAS “THE WORD”

    First you post “Satan’s Dream”, and now this crap?  I am now convinced that the one you say talks to you is Satan, and not Jesus.

    Father in heaven, please free Carmel from the hold of the evil one.  Satan has apparently masqueraded as your holy servant Jesus, and is convincing Carmel of all sorts of blasphemous and heretical things.  Please rebuke Satan and tell him that Carmel is off limits from now on.  In Jesus’ name I petition you.

     

    September 6, 2021 at 4:59 am#873459
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer: True. It is a ridiculous idea to think that Jesus is God because he was begotten by God. You can say he is divine or shares attributes of his Father. But he is not equal to the Father.

    “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

    👍

    September 6, 2021 at 5:12 am#873460
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike…..I join your prayer, for Carmel brother. I believe Satan has really been screwing with him.  I call on  the LORD our GOD,  TO REBUCK Satan and cast him away from CARMEL, in the name of Jesus Christ our lord. 

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

    September 6, 2021 at 5:18 am#873461
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Adam…….What you said does not make sense to me brother,  what Moses said about Jesus is true and also what John said is true to. I see no disagreements at all there.

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

    September 6, 2021 at 5:30 am#873463
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @Lightenup

    Hi LU,

    You said:

    I believe the Son is the only begotten literal son of God. I have been saying that for 28+ years. Jesus is begotten, not created. A created son would not be a literal son.

    Yes. I believe that too.

    September 6, 2021 at 5:37 am#873464
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer: Good point. However, the other point here is he is begotten not created.👍

    Actually, the point is that we are also begotten of God – just as Jesus is.  And even though John said we are begotten children of God, we were CREATED.

    The point that you seem to be missing is that any living thing that was begotten is automatically a new CREATION that didn’t exist before the begetting.  There is no distinction between “begotten” and “created”.  That’s why the act of “begetting” offspring is also called “proCREATION”.  See?  Creation is right there in the word that is synonymous with “beget”.

    If Jesus was begotten by God, he is a creation of God.  If we are begotten of God, we are creations of God.  There is no distinction.  The word translated as “only-begotten” is “monogenes”.  The first part (mono) simply means “only”, or “alone”.  (We still use this prefix today in English, ie: monotone, monologue, monocle, etc)  The second part means…

    Screenshot (2)

    So the phrase only-begotten literally means “the only one to have come into existence”.  So “only-begotten of God” is the “only one God caused to come into existence”.  Of course we know that in some cases in scripture, the term is used for a son or daughter who literally was the only child of a certain person (Luke 7:12, 8:42, 9:38).  But then we also know that it is used figuratively of a child who was not literally the only child of a person, but there was something special about this particular child (Heb 11:17, where Isaac is referred to as Abraham’s “only-begotten” son – even though Abraham had 8 sons).  For Jesus, the term is used figuratively too, since God has many sons – including many of us according to John.  And for it to be literal concerning Jesus, he would have to literally be the “only son that God caused to come into existence” – and we know that’s not the case.  So Jesus isn’t literally God’s only begotten son, but there is something special about Jesus.

    The bottom line is that any living thing what was “begotten” is also a “creation”.  There is no distinction.

     

    September 6, 2021 at 5:43 am#873465
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    LU:  No Mike you are not.

    I’m not what?

    September 6, 2021 at 5:43 am#873466
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Danny

    “I believe the Son is the only begotten literal son of God. I have been saying that for 28+ years. Jesus is begotten, not created. A created son would not be a literal son.   

    Yes. I believe that too.”

    Me

    Angels who have never sinned are created beings and they are LITTERAL SONS . 

    You do not think ?

    God bless

     

     

     

    September 6, 2021 at 5:57 am#873467
    Berean
    Participant

    Mike

    The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son OF God

    WAS BEGOTTEN OF THE SUBSTANCE

    OF GOD ( DIVINE AND ETERNAL SUBSTANCE OF GOD)

    THE SON IS

    the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,(or substance,essence)   

    person, or substance,essence

    hupostasis
    hoop-os’-tas-is
    from a compound of upo – hupo 5259 and isthmi – histemi 2476; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively):–confidence, confident, person, substance.

     

     

    September 6, 2021 at 5:57 am#873468
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You:
    Angels who have never sinned are created beings and they are LITTERAL SONS .
    You do not think ?

    Me:
    Well I think they are not literal sons in the
    sense that they are not begotten.

    Blessings.

    September 6, 2021 at 6:04 am#873469
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    LU:  All five of my children were born about nine months AFTER they first existed.

    It is not birth that causes an offspring to exist, it’s conception. Mike has been through this Biology lesson many times now and should know better.

    I don’t disagree with that – and I’m struggling to understand why you think it is important to this discussion.

    Screenshot (4)

    Screenshot (3)

    My point is that any living thing that is begotten is automatically a new CREATION that didn’t exist before.  The fact that the process of begetting a child begins at the moment of conception doesn’t argue one way or the other against the undeniable point I’m making.  (Notice the synonym “create” above.  If you begat something, you created something.  End of story.)

    September 6, 2021 at 6:31 am#873470
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    LU: I believe the Son is the only begotten literal son of God. I have been saying that for 28+ years. Jesus is begotten, not created. A created son would not be a literal son.

    It seems like Berean, Danny, Proclaimer, and I believe that here.

    And now all of you know that you were mistaken, since “monogenes son of God” literally means “the only son God ever brought into existence”.  And since Jesus is most definitely not the only son God ever brought into existence, we can be assured that this term when used of Jesus is figurative, like when it is used of Isaac.

    Consider…

    Heb 1:5… Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?

    John 3:12-13… Yet to all who did receive him… he gave the right to become children begotten… of God.

    1 John 5:1… Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been begotten of God.

    They are all the same Greek word.  Jesus was “begotten of God”, then gave us the right to be “begotten of God”, and now some of Jesus’ followers already are “begotten of God”.

    So Jesus isn’t literally the only one begotten of God.  The term “monogenes” means that Jesus is a special son that God brought into existence – not literally the ONLY son that God brought into existence.  Just like with Isaac.

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