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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • August 16, 2021 at 5:50 am#872809
    Berean
    Participant

    Mike

    Are you saying that when Jesus was a human on earth he was not omnipotent or omniscient… but now he is?

    If so, please post a scripture or two to support your idea. 

    Me

    On earth Jesus retained his divinity, and he only used it according to the will of God the Father.

    John 5:19
    Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, he does nothing but what he sees the Father doing; and whatever the Father does, the Son also does likewise.

    John 8:28, 42
    I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

     

    When Jesus said that only the Father knew the day of his next return, it proves that Jesus lived well according to the human mode although he was still divine. He did not have access to this truth from the date of his return.

    The Father saw fit that it was not necessary for him to communicate to us through his Son or his angels on the day of his return.

    August 16, 2021 at 6:04 am#872810
    Berean
    Participant

    Mike

    Firstly, no scripture says Jesus created a single thing, let alone “all things”. 

    yes I know, for you you do not believe that Jesus IS REALLY THE SON OF GOD, AND THAT THEREFORE HE INHERITED THE DIVINE POWERS OF HIS FATHER.
    IT’S HARD FOR YOU AND YET IT’S THE TRUTH.

     

    Secondly, even if Jesus did create all things, it wouldn’t say anything one way or the other about him being all-knowing or all-powerful. 

    I have already answered above (872809)

    And lastly, I’m happy that you at least admitted above that there was a time when Jesus didn’t exist by saying “WHEN He begot His only Son”. 

    His sonship HAD a BIGINNING but not His DIVINE NATURE WICH HAD NO BIGINNING AND NO END.

    August 16, 2021 at 6:30 am#872812
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Gene: Mike…..So let’s not strain our brains ok,  Scripture says  (not me )  But unto us the is but “ONE” GOD, and one mediator between God and Men,  the “MAN” Jesus Christ.

    Please tell me what part of that scripture you don’t believe?

    Hi Gene, there is no part of that scripture I don’t believe.  But let’s look at it in context…

    1 Tim 2:5-6… For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all people. 

    Notice there is some present tense (red “is”) and some past tense (red “gave”) in that one statement.  It is saying that the man who gave (past tense) himself as a ransom is (present tense) the mediator between God and mankind.

    Let me say the same thing as the scripture above, but in a different order…

    1 Tim 2:5-6…  The man Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all people is the one mediator between God and mankind. 

    The first part refers to things that happened in the past:  Jesus WAS a man, and Jesus DID give himself as a ransom while he was a man.

    The next part refers to things that are currently ongoing:  Jesus IS currently the mediator between God and mankind.

    Gene, Jesus is not STILL giving himself as a ransom… that is something that applied to him in the PAST.  Jesus is not STILL a man… that is something that applied to him in the PAST.

    So now let’s place your “Jesus is still a man in heaven” theory against this teaching from Jesus himself…

    John 3:3-7…  Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again… no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

    Understand what that means, Gene.  If you are currently flesh (ie: a man), then you must be born again of something other than flesh (ie: become something other than a man) to see or enter the kingdom of God.

    So please tell me which part of that scripture you don’t believe.

     

     

     

    August 16, 2021 at 6:49 am#872813
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Carmel: I personally never expected SUCH ILLOGICAL COMMENT FROM YOU! WHY?

    Read again Jesus own words!

    John14:14 If you shall ask me anything in my name,

    that I will do.
    Aren’t the above words from the SOLE SOVEREIGN RULER convincing to you?
    If Jesus, the sole sovereign spirit and owner of humanity by His own blood said the above words;

    ATTENTION Mike,

    ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT JESUS WILL ALLOW SATAN TO DELIBERATELY INTERFERE 

    IN HIS OWN WORK, JUST LIKE THAT! YOU EITHER MUST BE JOKING OR YOU REALLY DON’T HAVE NEITHER A CLEAR KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS’ SOVEREIGNTY AT ALL NOR HIS

    REDEMPTION PROCESS.

    Okay Carmel, I just asked Jesus in his own name if he is God – or the holy servant of God.  Jesus told me to read the scriptures, where it’s abundantly clear that he can’t very well BE his and our God if he is the son, servant, prophet, spokesman, priest, messiah, holy one, angel, first creation, and sacrificial lamb OF his and our God.

    He said that you are very confused because you have in mind the traditions of men, and not the perfect words of God and his holy spokesman Jesus.  He said you err when you call him “GODMAN” and say that he is the “sole sovereign ruler of mankind” and say that he is even higher than his own God – who also happens to be our God.

    So there you have it from Jesus himself – as taught directly to me from him.

    Now… since you believe that the scriptural idea of testing the spirits to see if they are from God is nonsense, since Satan and his demonic spirits couldn’t possibly interfere in any message to someone who prayed to Jesus, then you have no choice but to blindly accept that what I’ve just shared with you is the truth directly from Jesus to me, right?

    So we’ll have no more of your “GODMAN” nonsense from here on out, right?  From now on, you’ll start teaching the scriptural truth that Jesus is not God Himself, but instead the son, servant, prophet, spokesman, priest, messiah, holy one, angel, first creation, and sacrificial lamb OF his and our God, YHWH, right?

    Good.  Let it be.

    August 16, 2021 at 7:04 am#872814
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Gene:  WAS Jesus a human being,  made in the form  (image) of God, so are we…

    But that’s not what it says, Gene.  It says Jesus WAS (past tense) existing in the form of a god, and THEN was made into a human being.

    You are doing the same thing with Phil 2 as you do with John 8:58.  You are leaving out key parts of the scripture.

    August 16, 2021 at 7:23 am#872815
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Adam:  In those days Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will dwell safely. This is the name by which she will be called: ‘The Lord Our Righteousness.’ (Jeremiah 33:16)

    Ezekiel 37:25… They will live in the land that I gave to My servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They will live there forever with their children and grandchildren, and My servant David will be their prince forever. 

    Adam, is your coming messiah, who will be a regular old human being in every possible way, going to live forever?

    August 16, 2021 at 7:31 am#872816
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike: Berean, is Jesus the one Most High God of gods – or someone other than the one Most High God of gods?

    Berean: I have already answered you many times on this. reread 1 Corinthians 8: 6 and you will have the answer.

    Your answer has consistently been that Jesus is NOT the Most High God of gods.  That is the correct answer.  So if Jesus is theos, but NOT the Most High theos of all the other theos, then he has no choice but to be one of the other theos that the Most High theos is the theos OF.

    And as such, Jesus is indeed a god who is not THE Most High God of gods.  AMEN?

    August 16, 2021 at 7:37 am#872817
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean:  When Jesus said that only the Father knew the day of his next return, it proves that Jesus lived well according to the human mode although he was still divine. He did not have access to this truth from the date of his return.

    So then “divinity” doesn’t necessarily mean “omniscient”, does it?  And that means that even exalted and back in heaven, Jesus’ divinity still doesn’t necessarily mean he is omniscient, right?

    In other words, you have zero scriptures to support your claim that Jesus is (or has at any time been) omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent.

    You shouldn’t claim stuff just to claim it, Berean.  Watch out or you’ll become like Kathi – building your own doctrine from your own imagination.

    August 16, 2021 at 7:40 am#872818
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean:  His sonship HAD a BIGINNING but not His DIVINE NATURE WICH HAD NO BIGINNING AND NO END.

    What did I just say about making claims out of thin air that you can’t back up with scriptures?  Show me in scripture where I can read all about this “divine nature which had no beginning”.

    August 16, 2021 at 7:41 am#872819
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Carmel, post #872811 is the most brilliant post you’ve ever made here!  😁😂🤣  (just messing with you)

    August 16, 2021 at 8:36 am#872820
    Berean
    Participant

    Mike

    And as such, Jesus is indeed a god who is not THE Most High God of gods.  AMEN?

    “a god”
    This is not what the Bible conveys to make us understand WHO IS JESUS….

    THAT IS TO SAY THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD

    August 16, 2021 at 9:02 am#872821
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    How come it doesn’t say the god Jesus met a woman at a well. Or the god Jesus died for us. And in Heaven he is not described as a god with eyes like fire.

     

    August 16, 2021 at 9:05 am#872822
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    If we can inherit divine nature, then are we omniscient?

    Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

    August 16, 2021 at 9:09 am#872823
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Understand what that means, Gene.  If you are currently flesh (ie: a man), then you must be born again of something other than flesh (ie: become something other than a man) to see or enter the kingdom of God.

    Gene appears to teach from the flesh about the flesh. Even Jesus is just flesh to him it seems.

    Some people here need to be born from above.

    Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

    August 16, 2021 at 9:09 am#872824
    Berean
    Participant

    Mike

    And as such, Jesus is indeed a god who is not THE Most High God of gods.  AMEN?

    “a god”
    This is not what the Bible conveys to make us understand WHO IS JESUS….

    THAT IS TO SAY THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD

     

    You

    So then “divinity” doesn’t necessarily mean “omniscient”

    You do not understand
    Jesus put aside his divine attributes to live the human way
    On earth, he received through the Spirit of the Father what he had to say and do and therefore he depended entirely on his Father.

     

     

    August 16, 2021 at 10:14 am#872828
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike.

    YOU:  …you wouldn’t be able to just take my word for it if I told you that the things I’m trying to show you came via revelation from God, right?

    ME:  YOUR OWN PREACHING WOULD JUSTIFY WHETHER IT IS A REVELATION OR NOT!

    ME: Let’s start from scratch:

    http://merriam-webstercollegiate.com/dictionary/revelation

    noun rev·e·la·tion \ˌre-və-ˈlā-shən\
    : a usually secret or surprising fact that is made known

    : an act of making something known : an act of revealing something in usually a surprising way
    : something that surprises you

    Now to your human reasoning Mike, which in a way I repeat: I NEVER EXPECTED SUCH POOR A COMMENT, WHICH IRONICALLY IT SHOWS THAT YOU ARE THE ONE WHO PRODUCED ERRORS!

    YOU: I agree completely with you on that… which, ironically, is why I so rarely agree with you.  You consistently

    preach things that are either not in scripture at all (ie: GODMAN),

    ME: IN THE ABOVE DEFINITION OF  THE WORD “REVELATION”

    IT IS MORE THAN EVIDENT THAT IN ORDER FOR SOMETHING SPOKEN OR WRITTEN TO BE CALLED A REVELATION IT HAD TO BE SOMETHING WHICH, here it comes Mike:

    SURPRISES YOU, EVEN SHOCK YOU,  IT IS MAKING SOMETHING KNOWN, OR SOME SECRETS WHICH MADE KNOWN.

    OK , Mike, ACCORDING TO YOUR REASONING THEN, MY PREACHING IS DEFINITELY
    A REVELATION!

    NOW I MADE IT CLEAR Mike AND SAID:

    ME:  YOUR OWN PREACHING WOULD JUSTIFY WHETHER
    IT IS A REVELATION OR NOT!

    CONSEQUENTLY, Mike, SINCE YOUR REASONING IS THE MOST COMMON, AND THERE IS NOTHING IN IT WHICH WAS A SECRET, UNKNOWN, OR WHICH COULD NOT SUPRISES AND SHOCKS ME, WELL IT STANDS TO REASON THAT IT IS NOT TO BE EVEN CONSIDERED A REVELATION, IN FACT, IT IS SIMPLY AS YOU QUITE OFTEN SAY

    NONSENSE, AT LEAST TO ME.WITH EVERY  RESPECT.

    Well hear this, as you well said, I almost in all my posts I proclaim

    JESUS GODMAN!

    THERE ARE MANY SCRIPTURES WHICH TO ME AND TO MANY OTHERS, EVEN IN THE OT. THOUGH NOT SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED  THE TITLE “GODMAN”,

    JESUS IS GODMAN! BUT OBVIOUSLY, YOU AND OTHERS LIKE YOU DON’T ACCEPT IT.

    ON THE  OTHER HAND, IF JESUS NEVER GLORIFIED AS GODMAN, FROM THE FATHER’S POINT OF VIEW, WHO WAS EMBODIED IN JESUS ON EARTH, PRECISELY FOR SUCH TASK, I MEAN TO BE A MAN, AND WALK ON EARTH IT IS MORE A LOSS, AND HIS PLAN IN JESUS, IS A FAILURE. WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY ABSURD EVEN TO THINK OF IT NEVERMIND PROCLAIM IT, SINCE GOD ALMIGHTY ALREADY EXPERIENCED MANHOOD EMBODIED IN ONE GLORY WITH JESUS CHRIST BEFORE THE WORLD WAS. John17:5 

    YOU: or are clearly refuted by scripture (ie: Jesus is more powerful than God).

    I PUT IT THIS WAY TO YOU!

    A DIRECTOR AND OWNER OF A PARTICULAR BUSINESS, ORIGINALLY RUNNING THE BUSINESS HIMSELF, APPOINTED A PERSON TO RUN HIS BUSINESS AND EXECUTE ALL DIRECTIONS AND PROCESSES FOR A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME. DURING THIS PARTICULAR PERIOD OF TIME THE DIRECTOR WAS NEVER SEEN IN THE FACTORY OR ANYWHERE IN RELATION TO THIS BUSINESS, IN FACT,  HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS BUSINESS AT ALL. HE IS UNKNOWN FROM THE MAJORITY OF THE EMPLOYEE, BUT OBVIOUS THE BUSINESS  WAS IN FULL FUNCTION AND IN FULL PROGRESS AND ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTOR’S WISHES AND WILL.

    Mike, WHO IS THE MOST POWERFUL IN RELATION TO THE BUSINESS AND ITS PROGRESS?

    DON’T TELL ME THE DIRECTOR FOR GOD’S SAKE!

    IT IS THE SAME STORY BETWEEN THE FATHER AND THE SON!

    I PROCLAIM JESUS GODMAN and SOLE SOVERIGN OVER THE ENTIRE COSMOS, FOR THE PLEASURE AND GLORY OF THE FATHER.

    THE FATHER  IS ONLY A SPIRIT, THE FATHER OF ALL SPIRITS, AND IS NEITHER GODMAN NOR THE SOLE SOVEREIGN OVER THE ENTIRE COSMOS, YET!
    JESUS IS,   APPOINTED BY THE FATHER NO? 
    SIMPLY AS JESUS IS THE ONLY FATHER AND GOD OF  BOTH

    ALL THE SPIRITS AND OF ALL THE FLESH! John 20:17, 17:10

    IF THE FATHER THOUGH HE IS DEFINITELY MOST POWERFUL BUT TEMPORARY

    HE IS NOT FUNCTIONING  AS SUCH AND HE IS SIMPLY IN HIS REST, AND SINCE AS A CONFIRMATION THAT HE WAS  SUCCESSFUL WITH, BY, AND IN JESUS’ TASK, HE APPOINTED JESUS  BOTH A MAN IN “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN, AND THE SON OF GOD IN THE HOLY GHOST, John5:25-27 IN SHORT, GODMAN JOHN13:31-32 AND  THE SOLE SOVEREIGN OVER ALL,

    JESUS IS DEFINITELY THE MOST POWERFUL AND JUDGE SINCE ONLY BY THE MENTIONING OF JESUS’ NAME  ON THIS PLANET SATAN AND HIS DEMONS ARE CAST DOWN INTO HELL.

    NOW THE FATHER IS JUST AND PERFECT, AND ONLY JESUS, OBVIOUS SUPPORTED BY THE FATHER, IN HIS PRESENCE FIRST

    IN HELL ON HIS DEATH, THEN ON EARTH BY THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM PENTECOST IN JESUS’ NAME AND POWER,  ESTABLISHED AND MADE KNOWN THE FATHER AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD

    PHYSICALLY IN HIMSELF:

    JESUS CHRIST 1John5:19-20, IT STANDS TO REASON THAT IF THE FATHER IS ACCEPTED AND KNOWN ONLY IN/BY JESUS’ TASK ON EARTH, AND IN HELL, SOMETHING WHICH THE FATHER COULD IN NO WAY FOR A REASON OR ANOTHER ACHIEVE ALL BY HIMSELF, A SPIRIT, WHAT IS THERE TO PREVENT THE FATHER FROM PUTTING JESUS  IN FULL POWER AND AUTHORITY, attention please:

    IN ORDER FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT, SENT BY JESUS’ ORDER FROM THE FATHER,

    TO ACCOMPLISH AND ESTABLISH THIS TIME,

    JESUS CHRIST AND THE KINGDOM OF THE SON!  HUMANS IN FLESH! AS MUCH AS

    THE SON ESTABLISHED THE FATHER AND THE KINGDOM OF GOD! HUMANS IN SPIRIT!

    THE FACT THAT HE IS

    ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER AS 

    GODMAN, SPIRITFLESH!

     

    John 16:12 I have yet many things to say to you:

    but you cannot bear them now (JESUS AS GODMAN)

    13But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. (JESUS’ GODSHIP)
    For he shall not speak of himself; ;”(OF GOD THE FATHER)
    but what things soever he shall hear, (IN RELATION TO GOD THE SON) he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall show you.

    14He shall glorify me; (GODMAN John17:10) because he shall receive of mine, (THE POWER OF GOD THE SON AS MAN) and shall show it to you. (THROUGH MIRACLES IN JESUS’ NAME)
    15All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine.
    Therefore I said, that he shall receive of mine, (GODSHIP)and show it to you.

    AS HE DID SHOW IT TO ME!

    YOU:Carmel, the correct answer to my question is:  SCRIPTURE.   

    ME: OF WHICH I PRODUCED TONS OF IT.

    YOU: That is the only thing we have to test the spirits against.  In fact, the whole idea of testing the spirits to see if they are from God is based on the fact that evil spirits can convince you that you’re listening to Jesus himself – when you are not. 

    AGAIN Mike,

    NOT WHEN WE OURSELVES ASK JESUS DIRECTLY,

    SIMPLY AS BY ASKING JESUS, WE CONFIRM

    THE SUPERIORITY OF GOD ON EARTH IN JESUS! READ:

    Luke 11:9 And I say to you,
    Ask, and it shall be given you:
    seek, and you shall find:
    knock, and it shall be opened to you.

    10For every one that asketh, receiveth; and he that seeketh, findeth; and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened. 

    11And which of you, if he asks his father bread, will he give him a stone? or a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he reach him a scorpion? 

    13If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,

    how much more will

    your Father from heaven

    give the good Spirit to them that ask him?

     

    Mike, the above scripture is

    AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL

    IF I ASK JESUS CHRIST 

    MY GOD AND FATHER John20:17 ASSERTED ALSO IN

    Ephesians 4:6One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism. 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

    HE DEFINITELY GIVES ME NOT SATAN, BUT

    A GOOD SPIRIT 

    YOU: because you teach that Jesus is God Almighty,

    ME: NEVER! I USED THE TERMS

    GOD THE MIGHTY ! Isaiah 9:6 AND

    GODMAN!

    YOU: whereas the scriptures teach that Jesus is the son, servant, mediator, messiah, spokesman, prophet and sacrificial lamb OF God Almighty.

    BUT Mike, THE ABOVE IS NOT ALL THAT JESUS IS, READ HEREUNDER SOME MORE TRUTH OF WHAT JESUS IS AND WHAT KIND OF SERVANT HE IS NOW.

    15Who is the image of the invisible God,

     the firstborn of every creature: 16For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him.  17And he is before all, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he may hold the primacy: 19Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father, that all fullness should dwell; 20And through him to reconcile all things unto himself, making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth, and the things that are in heaven.

    Did you notice something in the above scripture Mike?

    What happened to the word

    SERVANT and all the rest of the titles by which you are discrediting

    Jesus Christ?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    August 16, 2021 at 10:22 am#872829
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: Carmel, post #872811 is the most brilliant post you’ve ever made here!     (just messing with you)

    What do you expect from a person still living on milk!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    August 16, 2021 at 10:36 am#872830
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @berean

    If we inherit divine nature, do we become omniscient?

    God knows everything because he is eternal and no one existed before God. There is nothing outside of God.

    The Son was begotten of God.

    Colossians 1:15-18
    The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

    So he is before the cosmos and all things.

    He was the first.

    God is not the first.

    He always was and is. I am that I am.

    If the Son was not first then who was the first to be with God?

     In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God…

    So the Word is who the Son is. He was with God. And the Word became flesh. And we believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Jesus Christ is the Word of God.

    And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems ; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood,
    and His name is called THE WORD OF GOD. 

    August 16, 2021 at 10:50 am#872833
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @genebalthrop

    Why are you obsessed with flesh? It seems your doctrine is the doctrine of flesh.

    Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

    August 16, 2021 at 11:19 am#872835
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Amen Berean, you said

     His sonship HAD a BEGINNING but not His DIVINE NATURE WHICH HAD NO BEGINNING AND NO END.

    I will add that not only did the sonship have a beginning but the fathership would have as well at the same moment unless there was a son prior to Jesus but that would knock Jesus out of the firstborn spot. The divine essence of the Father and the Son is identical and has no beginning or end.

    The Son is the exact representation of the Father’s nature. Heb 1

    Both are YHVH 😉 One God, One Lord.

    Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is LORD (YHVH).

    I’m glad to agree with you Berean!

    Blessings, LU

     

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