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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • August 9, 2021 at 5:24 am#872651
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    LU: This is my paraphrase for more clarity:

    A PSALM OF DAVID. A declaration of YHWH to my Lord, YHWH our Righteousness,: “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

    Your paraphrase provides confusion, not clarity.

    LU: Jeremiah 23

    5Behold, the days come, says Yahweh, that I will raise to David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land.

    6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name by which he shall be called: Yahweh our righteousness.

    Jeremiah 23:6 NRSV…  And this is the name by which he will be called: “The LORD is our righteousness.”

    Ten chapters later…

    Jeremiah 33:16 NRSV…  In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will live in safety. And this is the name by which it will be called: “The LORD is our righteousness.”

    Both the city and the ruler that Yahweh will raise up will be known as “Yahweh: Our righteousness”.  It doesn’t mean that either the city or the ruler will be Yahweh Himself – or even have Yahweh as a literal name.

    The NET scholars suggest that this title “sums up the justice that the Lord provides through raising up this ruler as well as the safety, security, and well-being that result”.

    This is just another example of how, from a misinterpreted verse here and a misinterpreted verse there, you’ve built yourself a doctrine that has no relation to the reality taught in the scriptures as a whole.

    August 9, 2021 at 5:51 am#872652
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    LU: Gene,

    The Hebrew word adonai is not found in Psalm110:1.

    Gene, Kathi is right about this.  The Hebrew word that English translators render as “LORD” with all caps is what’s known as the tetragrammaton – the four Hebrew consonants that Hebrew writers used in place of the personal and proper name of the Most High God.  Those consonants translate into English as “YHWH” (some say YHVH).  But this is why the actual pronunciation of the name of God is unknow to us – because the verbs were left out purposely.  And depending on the verbs that were left out, it could be “Yahweh”, “Jehovah”, “Yehovah”, “Yahuah”, etc.

    It’s like the English abbreviation “bldg”.  You and I know to pronounce those four consonants as “building”, right?  But maybe people 1000 years from now would see “bldg” in our old writings, and not know what the missing vowels were.  Maybe they’d conclude that it was pronounced “bulldog”.

    So once upon a time, the Jewish elders knew how to pronounce “YHWH” – but because of a tradition that said it was wrong to say God’s personal name out loud, the actual pronunciation is now lost to us.  We are in the position of the future people seeing “bldg” – and having to guess if it was pronounced “building”, “bulldog”, or any number of other ways.

    But the word in Ps 110 that is translated as “LORD” with all caps is not “adonai”.  It is the tetragrammaton “YHWH” – the actual personal name of God.

    Kathi is also right that adon is used for God – not just men.  And I don’t know if it’s come up yet, but adonai isn’t exclusively for God either.  It is used for a man in at least one scripture.

    August 9, 2021 at 6:07 am#872653
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike:  The One who is in a position to PUT all things under the other one is the One who is the most powerful. 

     

    Carmel:  PERFECT Mike! FROM A HUMAN’S POINT OF VIEW!

    We are both human, and therefore only have a human’s point of view.  Even if an angel came to you and prophesied some future event, you would only be able to understand it from a human’s point of view – because that’s the only point of view you have.

    Fortunately for us humans, the Bible was not written for the benefit of angels – but specifically for humans.  Therefore I accept your commendation of my words above being PERFECT.  Thanks. 😎

     

    Carmel:  37As the Lord hath been with my lord the king, so be he with Solomon, and make his throne higher than the throne of my lord king David.  Mike, JESUS RIGHT NOW IS THE HIGHEST, HIGHER THAN GOD ALMIGHTY…

    Nonsense.  None could be higher than the Most High God of gods.

    1 Cor 15:27… Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

    August 9, 2021 at 6:38 am#872654
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike: The other one will never have as much power as the One who put all things under him.

     

    Carmel: NOT PERFECT THIS TIME, IN FACT IT’S A LIE!

     

    I guess we’d better consult our resident “Peacekeeper of the Forum” about this one.

    Hey @Proclaimer, Carmel disagrees with a statement I made.  He doesn’t personally consider my statement to be accurate, and has therefore concluded that I have told a LIE – which by extension makes me a LIAR (one who tells a lie).  Now considering that you have already commented on my statement above, and said it is the truth – but also taking into consideration your own definition of a liar (one who says something that another person doesn’t consider accurate) – we seem to have a conundrum.

    By your own definition, saying something that another person deems inaccurate is indeed a lie – because it’s not the truth.  So therefore Carmel MUST BE correct that I am a liar.  But my lie is something that you’ve labeled as truth – which means that you’ve also partaken in a lie by agreeing with and promoting my lie.  And that can only mean that you are a liar as well – simply because we both accept something that somebody else thinks isn’t true.  But at the same time, Carmel must, by your definition, also be a liar – since he’s saying something that you and I think is not true.

    So, O Wise and Powerful Peacekeeper of the Forum, where do we go from here?  Am I a liar?  Are you a liar?  Is Carmel a liar?  All of those must be true according to your own definition of a lie/liar, right?

    Or could it be that I wasn’t LYING, but only telling it the way I truthfully and sincerely understood it – and my understanding just happens to be at odds with Carmel’s understanding?  Could that be the answer?  Could it really be that simple?  Could it be that neither you, I, nor Carmel were telling LIES – but that we simply disagree on the conclusion/meaning of certain data?   Hmm… what a concept.  What a brilliant strategy it would be to have respectful discourse during which certain parties are bound to disagree on occasion – but nobody tells anyone else they told a LIE, or that they are LYING, or that they are a LIAR – because that would require knowing the heart and mind of the other person, and knowing for a fact that they were INTENTIONALLY saying something they KNEW was false, in order to PURPOSELY deceive others.

    What do you think about that plan, Peacekeeper?  Do you think we could disagree on certain things, and debate those things rigorously WITHOUT the words LIE, LYING or LIAR ever entering into the discussion?

    Waiting with bated breath for your wise ruling on this matter.

    August 9, 2021 at 7:04 am#872655
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean:  This is its human origin that nobody here ignores …. But you put aside its divine origin to your disadvantage because if you believed it would open the horizon for you ….

    For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (John 6:38)

    Very well said!  I have tried to say the same to Gene and Jodi before:  Nobody here rejects one single “Jesus was a man on earth” scripture in the entire Bible.  Everybody here accepts that Jesus was a man on earth.  The difference is that most of us ALSO accept the MANY indisputable scriptures that make it abundantly clear that Jesus existed in heaven BEFORE (and after) being a man on earth.

    You can’t be much clearer than, “I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN”.  But to suit their own personal desires, Gene and Jodi are forced to imagine that their Lord’s words, “I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN” mean that “the prophesied plan of Jesus” came down from heaven – or some other such nonsense.

    Too many people with their own personal desires trying to force the scriptures into teaching what they want them to teach – instead of just accepting what the scriptures actually teach…

    God created the earth.

    God created man.

    Man sinned, thereby passing that sinful nature onto all subsequent men.

    God divided the nations of men according to the number of gods (His spirit sons), but chose Abraham to make a nation that was His very own – apart from all the other nations.

    God’s own nation rejected Him and continued to sin.

    God sent His Son (not “God” or a “member in a Godhead” – but His Son) from heaven to earth to dwell as a man, teach His human children, and be killed as God’s own sacrificial Lamb to atone for the sins of all mankind (not just the sins of His own nation, Israel).

    God raised that Son from the grave, and brought him back into heaven where he was before.

    God’s Son now rules from a throne at the right hand of God’s throne, and will do so until God has placed every enemy at the feet of His Son, so that His Son can destroy them.

    Once that has been accomplished, the Son will relinquish the rulership that his God gave him, and his and our God will rule over the resurrected directly – not through a mediator.

    August 9, 2021 at 7:15 am#872656
    carmel
    Participant

    Mike: The One who is in a position to PUT all things under the other one is the One who is the most powerful.

    Carmel:  the above is only human reasoning!

    YOU: As opposed to what?  Do you possess some sort of non-human reasoning capabilities of which we are not aware?

    AND HOW! ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO DISCUSS THE TRUTH OF JESUS OF WHICH IT’S NOTHING FROM ME. IT WAS AND IS GIVEN TO ME AS I ASKED FOR AND RECEIVED, OF WHICH YOU ALSO COULD RECEIVE IF YOU SIMPLY ASK AND NOT RELY ON WORLDLY WISDOM WHICH IS NOT OF GOD, THE FACT THAT YOU CALL THEM NONSENSE WITHOUT BEING SPECIFIC ABOUT THEM AND NEVER JUSTIFIED YOURSELF AND PRODUCED SCRIPTURES.

    THE NONSENSE OF THE WORLD WHICH GOD HAS CHOSEN, THAT HE MIGHT CONFOUND THE WISE.

    THE NONSENSE OF JESUS WHO WAS/IS ONE SUBSTANCE Hebrews 1:3 AND GLORY John17:5, AS

    THE EMBODIMENT OF GOD WHO WAS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!

    Proverbs 8:22

    The Lord possessed me (AD INTRA)

    at the beginning of his ways, before he made anything from the beginning.

    23I was set up from eternity,  (AS THE EMBODIMENT AND CARRIER OF GOD, IN ORDER TO CREATE AD EXTRA) and of old before the earth was made.

    24The depths were not as yet, and I was already conceived. neither had the fountains of waters as yet sprung out:

    25The mountains with their huge bulk had not as yet been established: before the hills, I was brought forth: (PHYSICALLY IN A GLORIFIED HUMAN BODY JESUS CHRIST)

    26He had not yet made the earth, nor the rivers, nor the poles of the world.

    27When he prepared the heavens, I was present: (AS A SPIRIT IN THE HEART OF THE HEAVENLY CREATURES) when with a certain law and compass he enclosed the depths:

    28When he established the sky above, and poised the fountains of waters:

    29When he compassed the sea with its bounds, and set a law to the waters that they should not pass their limits: when he balanced the foundations of the earth;

    30I was with him forming all things:

    and was delighted every day,

    playing BEFORE him at ALL times;(AS THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE EVER CREATED

    THE FATHER IN THE SON AND THE SON IN THE FATHER,)

    THE ONLY BODY, THE BEGINNING, John1:1 “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, John 1:14, GOD THE FATHER EVER POSSESSED AND ALSO MANIFESTED HIMSELF IN ON THIS PLANET EARTH AS A HUMAN AND SERVANT OF GOD AS HE WAS BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!

    ME: Now PLEASE Mike, just read your own contradictions  to your own human reasoning above

    WHICH CONFIRMS WHY IT IS ONLY HUMAN REASONING!

    FIRST YOU SAID:

    YOU: The One who is in a position to put

    ALL THINGS under the other one is the One who is the most powerful. 

    THEN YOU SAID:

    YOU: We agree on the facts:  God (the Most High)

    has granted

    His holy servant Jesus

    a bunch of power.  

    Now in the post 872498, you said:

    YOU: God’s firstborn Son has exactly the amount of power and authority that his and our

    God grants him.

     

    TO THE NEXT ONE

    YOU: His and our God 

    could absolutely grant Jesus

    the power to do anything He could do…

    IN MY HUMAN REASONING I CALL  YOUR HUMAN REASONING

    A PING PONG REASONING!!!

     

    SINCE YOU DON’T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE AND STAND, AND SIMPLY CONFUSED TO DETERMINE THE JUSTIFIED LANGUAGE WHEN IT COMES TO ADDRESS JESUS AND HIS  UNIQUE DIVINE TASK FROM THE BEGINNING! AS”THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD!

    NOT ONLY AS AS A UNIQUE SERVANT, SINCE YOU PUT JESUS IN THE SAME BASKET AS

    THE DEVIL, MOSES, AND ALL THE REST OF SATANIC CONTAMINATED SERVANTS,

    BUT ALSO THE ONLY ABODE AND CARRIER OF HIS OWN GOD AND FATHER! HIS OWN SUBSTANCE, PRECISELY THE FATHER’S UNIQUE HOUSE!

    NOW IN YOUR HUMAN REASONING WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE AMONG THESE TENSES:

    GOD HAS GRANTED JESUS

    GOD GRANTED JESUS

    GOD GRANTS JESUS

    GOD COULD ABSOLUTELY GRANT JESUS

    IF FOR YOU THE ABOVE TENSES ARE, ALL THE SAME, IT SHOWS, AS YOU ASKED HEREUNDER,  WHY, WHETHER I POSSESS SOME SORT OF NON-HUMAN REASONING CAPABILITIES OF WHICH YOU ARE NOT AWARE.

    YOU: As opposed to what?  Do you possess some sort of non-human reasoning capabilities of which we are not aware?

    NOW TO KEEP YOU IN CLEAR MIND READ SCRIPTURE AND AT LEAST GIVE JESUS WHAT HE DESERVES AND WHAT IS HIS POWER ONCE AND FOR ALL PLEASE:

    Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying:

    All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 

    WHERE IN SCRIPTURE DID YOU READ THE PHRASE OF HUMAN REASONING 

    A BUNCH OF  POWER

    IN RELATION TO JESUS POWER FROM THE FATHER.

    WHICH CONFIRMS THAT YOU ARE ALSO NOT AWARE OF NOT JUST THE SORT OF HUMAN REASONING I POSSESS, BUT ALSO

    THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FATHER AND HIS FIRSTBORN BEGOTTEN SON 

    THE MOST HIGH GODMAN!

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    August 9, 2021 at 7:17 am#872657
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. (John 16:28)

    Another great scripture to help Gene see the whole truth.  On the other hand, it is also another great scripture to combat the misunderstanding of “I am” in John 8:58.  Notice the present tense “I am come into the world”.  This doesn’t mean Jesus is claiming to be “I AM” (if that truly even is the meaning of YHWH).  It is just a difference in languages.  Where the Greeks would use the present “I am come into the world”, English speakers would say, “I have come into the world”.

    The meaning, of course, is that Jesus HAD come into the world, and would soon be leaving the world to go back to the Father in heaven.  But if someone really wanted to, they could try to force that scripture into being some mystical message from Jesus that he was the “I AM”.

    Likewise, in 8:58, the true meaning of Jesus’ words are that before Abraham even came into existence, he had already been in existence.  And if someone really wanted to, they could try to force the Greek present tense in 8:58 into being some mystical message from Jesus that he was the “I AM” – when the proper translation into English is “I was/existed”.

    And thusly proceed the people with their personal desires, endlessly trying to force the scriptures into teaching what they want them to teach… instead of just accepting what they do teach.

    August 9, 2021 at 7:40 am#872659
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene, regarding what you wrote here:

    “the human root and offspring of king David “

    My response was:

    Please show me where that is in the Bible specifically with the word “human.”

    Your response in a post after my comment doesn’t give me the verse that says that Jesus is the “human root” as you suggest. You did not give me a verse but instead you answer by suggesting that I question Jesus’ humanity. Now instead of twisting the conversation, please show me where the Bible directly says “human root” in regards to King David.” If you can’t then we shall expose you as having another strike against what you proclaim.

    Thanks and happy hunting for something that does not exist.

    August 9, 2021 at 7:42 am#872660
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Gene: We all came from heaven , yes all humanity has. 

     

    Carmel:  You are completely lost , Gene, and ignoring completely PURE CLEAR SCRIPTUR! Read;

    John 8:23 And he said to them:

    You are from beneath,
    I am from above.
    You are of this world,
    I am not of this world. 

    Excellent use of scripture to directly contradict what Gene said.  Gene, you are claiming A, but your Lord himself clearly said B.  Gene, will you stop saying A now that you’ve been shown it is inaccurate?

    August 9, 2021 at 7:53 am#872661
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Mike,

    Fyi, John 16:28 doesn’t have ego eimi (I am) in it so you are not comparing apples to apples when you compare to the I am of John 8:58.

    See the difference:

     

    Screen Shot 2021-08-08 at 3.49.00 PM

    Screen Shot 2021-08-08 at 3.49.41 PM

    August 9, 2021 at 7:54 am#872662
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Adam:  This is the big mythology created by the writer of Fourth Gospel stating that the so called Messiah came down from heaven for which there is no proof in the Hebrew Bible.

    You don’t accept the proof in the OT that I’ve given you because you, like so many others, wish to tell the scriptures what to teach instead of allowing them to teach you.

    Besides, your personal choice to reject the NT has zero effect on any of us here. You calling the NT “mythology” is like the rustling of the reeds in the wind… of no consequence to us at all.

    August 9, 2021 at 8:11 am#872663
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean:   Meditate on it

    Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high…

    I have meditated on it for many years, and even your own verse above teaches you what I’m trying to show you.  Who is “the Majesty on high” that your verse talks about?  Is it Jesus?  Or is it Jesus’ God and Father?

    Jesus is God’s “right hand man”… not God Himself.  And someone’s “right hand man” is not equal to the master whose right hand he sits at.  He is lesser than his Master.  That’s why Jesus tells us the Father is greater than him… that he can do nothing without the Father… and that he serves and prays to the Father.   Why?  Because Jesus is the faithful servant of his and our God, and strives eternally to do the will of his and our God, YHWH.

    August 9, 2021 at 8:23 am#872664
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: It’s as if you deny that a human son begotten by his human father, IS NOT HUMAN

    That’s a tricky double negative there.  I do indeed DENY that a human son is NOT human. 😁  Just kidding… I know what you meant.  What I deny is that the son of a human king who can raise people from the dead would automatically be a human king who could raise people from the dead.

    Yes, the son would be HUMAN.  But no, the son wouldn’t necessarily be every single thing that his father is (king, miracle worker, etc)

    So yes, God’s firstborn son is what God is:  A spirit being.  But no, God’s firstborn son is not EVERYTHING his Father is: uncreated, most high, omnipotent, etc.

    Berean: THE SON OF GOD HAS INHERITED EVERYTHING FROM THE FATHER: OMNIPOTENCE
    OMNISCIENCE
    OMNIPRESENCE

    Where can I read that Jesus is any of those things in the scriptures?

    Berean: AND THE WORD WAS “THEOS”

    The logos was not only theos, but also with THE theos in the beginning.  So he is indeed theos – just not THE theos.  There are myriads in the scriptures who are theos, Berean.  There is only one in the scriptures who is THE most high theos OF all the others who are theos.

    August 9, 2021 at 8:34 am#872665
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: The FATHER IS bigger the Son IN AGE, NOT IN GLOBAL POWER

    You’re getting there, brother.  The Father is bigger than the Son in age because the Father is uncreated – while the Son had a beginning.  That’s a big step right there.  As for the “global power” part, Jesus himself tells us the Father is more powerful (and knows more) than him.

    John 10:29… My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

    This statement is not about the Father being greater than Jesus in age, Berean.  It is about the Father being greater than Jesus in power.

    Matt 24:36… But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

    This statement is about the Father being greater than the Son in knowledge.

    Both of those statements show that Jesus is neither omnipotent nor omniscient.  But his and our God is both of those things.

    August 9, 2021 at 8:44 am#872666
    Berean
    Participant

    Mike

    Globaly I agree yours WORDS,

    but know that to save mankind, God needed someone who was EQUAL TO HIMSELF, HIS OWN SON.
    Romans 8: 3
    For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his OWN SON in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    Hebrews1: 3 …. Who being the brightness of his glory, and THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON,
    Colossians 1:15
    Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

     

    to be continued

    August 9, 2021 at 8:44 am#872667
    Lightenup
    Participant

    A father begins to be a father at the moment his son begins to be a son. In regards to God, his essence was eternal and became both father and son at the same instant.

    August 9, 2021 at 8:46 am#872668
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer:I’ll play along with the 2 dimensional analogy.

    The holy city has a gate in the east, west, north, and south.

    That doesn’t change anything, since the owner of the forest and his 24 managers sit on their thrones which are right outside of the EAST gate ONLY.   So now… can you look north towards the owner and his managers?  Can you look south towards them?  West?   Nope.  You can only look EAST towards them, because that is where they are.  If you are looking east towards them, then Kathi, looking west, is NOT also looking towards them at the same time.

    Likewise, if you are looking UP towards God’s throne from your spot on the ball, then Kathi can’t possibly look UP towards God’s throne from her spot on the opposite side of the ball.

    Proclaimer:  And did you mention already what is below hades and the deep? Or does that continue forever? Just endless water.

    I not only mentioned it, but I REPOSTED the same thing again a second time when you asked about it a second time.  Now you’re asking about the same thing a THIRD time, so I will repost the same thing a THIRD time for you…

    We are not told what – if anything – is below the waters that are below the earth… only that there are waters below the earth.

    What does it mean in your worldview that there are waters BELOW the earth?  Which direction is “below the earth”?

    Also, hopefully you’ll eventually answer this question…

    King David (possibly speaking in the Spirit) said that the sun runs a circuit over the earth.  Was King David LYING to us?  Yes or No?

    August 9, 2021 at 9:03 am#872669
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    Carmel:  37As the Lord hath been with my lord the king,

    so be he with Solomon, and make his throne higher than the throne of my lord king David.  

    Mike, JESUS RIGHT NOW IS THE HIGHEST, HIGHER THAN GOD ALMIGHTY…

    YOU: Nonsense.  None could be higher than the Most High God of gods.

    SO ACCORDING TO YOU, I AM TELLING A LIE NO?

    AND IF I AM TELLING A LIE I AM A LIAR. NO?

    Isaiah 9:6For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called,

    Wonderful, Counsellor,

    God the Mighty,

    the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace.

    John14:13 Because I go to the Father:

    and whatsoever you shall ask

    the Father in my name,

    that will I do:

    that the Father may be glorified

    in the Son.

    NOT IN HIMSELF AS MAN!  Mr Mike!

    Hebrews 1:13 ……Sit on my right hand,

    until I make thy enemies thy footstool?

    Mike, WHO SPOKE THE ABOVE WORDS,

    THE FATHER NO!

    WHAT IS THE FATHER DOING RIGHT NOW THEN?

    LET’S SAY,  A RIGHT-HANDED PERSON, HAD AN ACCIDENT AND HE LOST HIS RIGHT HAND.  THIS PERSON’S LIFE IS PRACTICALLY USELESS!

    GOD ALMIGHTY’S RIGHT HAND IS

    JESUS CHRIST AND WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST AND HIS TASK ON EARTH,

    GOD ALMIGHTY’S POWER WOULD HAVE BEEN PRACTICALLY USELESS ON THIS PLANET, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN ALSO DETRIMENTAL FOR THE COSMOS!

    THE FACT THAT GOD ALMIGHTY IS IN HIS LONGEST REST AND RULING THE COSMOS BY JESUS OFFICIALLY AS

    THE HIGHEST EVER GODMAN!

    GOD OF ALL FLESH

    THE MIGHTY GOD!

    1Corinthians 15:All things are put under him;

    undoubtedly, HE is excepted, who put all things under him.

    28And when all things shall be subdued unto him,

    THEN

    the Son also himself shall be subject unto him that put all things under him,

    that God may be all in all.

    (OK MIKE, AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL!

    ONLY AFTER GOD ALMIGHTY IN THE POWER OF JESUS CHRIST PUT HIS ENEMIES AS JESUS’FOOTSTOOL, THE SON SHALL BE SUBJECT  TO HIM, 

    NOT NOW! and TILL THE END OF THE LORD!

    WHEN GOD THE FATHER  FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME, WILL POSSESS JESUS’ HUMAN GLORIFIED BODY, “THE WORD” MADE FLESH)

    JESUS CHRIST

    PLUS THAT THE ENTIRE CREATURES  IN

    THE KINGDOM OF THE SON

    ALL POSSESS  JESUS’ BODY

    ALL CHILDREN OF GOD

    THE KINGDOM OF THE SON.

    1John3;2Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him:

    because we shall see him as he is.

    AS HE WAS EVEN BEFORE THE WORLD WAS !

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    August 9, 2021 at 9:12 am#872670
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer:  Let me educate you…  Up means higher. Higher doesn’t always mean against gravity. 

    Please do educate me, O wise one who can’t even answer simple questions that have been repeatedly asked.  Yes, the word “higher” (which means above something else) is often idiomatically used as “better”.  For example, if you wanted to say that a Porsche is “better” than a Ford, you could idiomatically say that a Porsche is “higher on the list” than a Ford.  And you can say that even if your list is lying horizontally on a table, because the idea is that the Porsche is on that list in a position that is ABOVE or before the Ford.

    But all of those idiomatic uses stem from the idea that above is better.  Jesus is from above, while we are from below.  Above is better.  Heaven is above, while Hades is below.  Above is better.  The idiom “low man on the totem pole” stems from Indians placing the carved faces of their gods/important chiefs on their totem poles with the greatest one being the top face on the pole, and the least of the group being the lowest face on the pole.

    So now that you’ve educated me, what do you say we move on from this obvious diversion attempt, and back to my point?  I simply want to know if both you and Kathi can look up above your heads towards the thrones of God, Jesus, and the 24 elders from opposite sides of a ball earth at the same time.  Can you?  Yes or no?

    August 9, 2021 at 9:16 am#872671
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Adam:  Hi brother Gene, Your example of Persian King Cyrus with Jesus the supposed Messiah is quite amazing. In fact Second (Deutero) Isaiah quoted him as Messiah (Anointed) in Chap 45.

    You sound surprised about that.  The Bible is filled with many messiahs/christs of God.

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