Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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April 16, 2021 at 9:29 am#870239
carmel
Participant
Hi Mike,
YOU: Carmel, why could Stephen see the person of Jesus, but not the person of God? And doesn’t that mean that the person of Jesus is not the person of God?
ME: First and foremost Scripture never says that Stephen
saw only the person of Jesus and not the person of God.
Scripture EMPHATICALLY says that Stephen saw
(A) THE GLORY OF GOD,
and
(B) JESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD.
Mike, JUST REFLECT WHAT YOU, COMPLETELY LOST WITHIN YOUR CORRUPTED MIND SAID, YOU SAID THAT
IN THE GLORY OF GOD,
WHICH STEPHEN SAW, EITHER
(A) THERE WAS NO GOD! OR
(B) STEPHEN COULD ONLY SEE JESUS, BUT NOT GOD.
NEVERTHELESS:
ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, DEFINITELY WITHOUT THE SINGLE DOUBT,
STEPHEN STILL SAW BOTH
(A) THE GLORY OF GOD and
(B) JESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD!
CONCLUSION ACCORDING TO YOU Mike, NOW IS THAT
STEPHEN SAW THAT
(C) JESUS THE SON OF MAN,
ALL BY HIMSELF STANDING IS BOTH
THE GLORY OF GOD, which Stephen saw, and
GOD JESUS THE SON OF MAN IN HIS GLORY OF GOD.
Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess ( Also you Mike, Gene, and Jodi) that
the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

April 16, 2021 at 7:31 pm#870241
Berean
Participant
God bless all

April 19, 2021 at 1:51 am#870258
mikeboll64
Blocked
Gene: Mike……Try dealing with that, maze of twists and turns. LOL.
Peace and love to you and yours………..gene
😁😂🤣 I was skimming through and trying hard to detect any semblance of rationality, but to no avail.
April 19, 2021 at 2:09 am#870259
mikeboll64
Blocked
Carmel: NEVERTHELESS:
ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, DEFINITELY WITHOUT THE SINGLE DOUBT,
STEPHEN STILL SAW BOTH
(A) THE GLORY OF GOD and
(B) JESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD!
Correct. No man can see God, but Moses and Stephen were both granted to see the glory of God. Therefore, Stephen saw only the glory of God (not God Himself), and Stephen saw God’s holy servant Jesus at God’s right hand. How did Stephen know Jesus was at God’s right hand? Because Jesus was standing to the right of a radiant glory that Stephen said was the glory of God. Carmel, when you read scriptures that say Jesus will rule from a throne at God’s right hand, do you assume that something/someone positioned to the right OF God also IS God?
Carmel: CONCLUSION ACCORDING TO YOU Mike, NOW IS THAT
STEPHEN SAW THAT
(C) JESUS THE SON OF MAN,
ALL BY HIMSELF STANDING IS BOTH
THE GLORY OF GOD, which Stephen saw, and
GOD JESUS THE SON OF MAN IN HIS GLORY OF GOD.
You’ve replaced the word “and” with the word “in”. Stephen didn’t see Jesus IN the glory of God. Stephen saw Jesus AND the glory of God. Carmel, do we agree that Stephen was able to see Jesus? Can we agree that Jesus was standing to the right of something Stephen called “the glory of God”? Can we agree that if Jesus is standing to the right of this “glory”, then it’s clear that Jesus can’t also BE this “glory”? I mean, how can you stand to the right of the Empire State Building and also BE the Empire State Building? How can you stand to the right of a fireball and also BE the fireball you are standing beside?
It amazes me that you can take such simple words like “I see Jesus and the glory of God, and Jesus is standing to the right of the glory of God” and turn it into some bizarre interpretation where Jesus IS the very thing he is standing to the right OF. 🤔

April 19, 2021 at 2:19 am#870260
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Carmel….. Isn’t there even one scripture you can quote without changing it.
Phil 2:11…..”and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is lord, “TO” the glory of God the Father.
Not ” “IN” the glory of God, but “TO” the glory of God the Father
God the Father gives “HIS” Glory, to “NO” man, your the one doing that, not him nor any true believer .
Carmel, please try not to add “your” words to our text’s.
peace and love to you and yours…………gene
April 19, 2021 at 2:31 am#870262
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Mike…..Have you read the last quote that Jodi gave to LU? , absolutely amazing how the Spirit of truth , is guiding her mind, and the solid soundness of scripture being afforded her. Read he post
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
April 19, 2021 at 3:02 am#870264
mikeboll64
Blocked
Mike: Just follow the subject throughout…  God spoke in the past; God spoke in more recent times; God appointed someone; God created the world.
There are others identified here, namely “the prophets” and “his son”. But the teaching is that God did x, y, and z through either “the prophets” or “his son”.
So at this point, can you and I agree that the writer is talking about one particular god, and the prophets/son through whom this particular god did certain things?
LU: Yes, God the Father of Jesus who was not alone creating the world, specifically.
Agreed. The author was talking about God, the Father (and God) of Jesus. So when the author writes the words, “he created the world”, the pronoun “he” refers to God the Father. We are in agreement that “he” refers back to the one the author identifies as “God”.
So, the author of Hebrews tells us who created the world, and identifies Jesus as someone other than that One, right? And in the prayer in Acts 4, the Apostles tell us who created the world, and identify Jesus as someone other than that One, right? And what does Jesus himself say about it?
Mark 13:19 …because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now–and never to be equaled again.
So now we have Jesus himself telling us who created the world, right? In fact, Jesus tells us that he is the first creation by that God who created all things…
Rev 3:14 …And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God…
…which of course aligns perfectly with this…
Prov 8:22 …The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.
So how do you align all of these with your idea that Jesus is the Creator?

April 19, 2021 at 3:36 am#870266
mikeboll64
Blocked
Gene: Carmel….. Isn’t there even one scripture you can quote without changing it.
Phil 2:11…..”and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is lord, “TO” the glory of God the Father.
Not ” “IN” the glory of God, but “TO” the glory of God the Father
Good catch. I saw that twist too when I was pointing out the other one.
April 19, 2021 at 2:17 pm#870276
Proclaimer
Participant
Scripture EMPHATICALLY says that Stephen saw
(A) THE GLORY OF GOD,
and
(B) JESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD.
Mike, JUST REFLECT WHAT YOU, COMPLETELY LOST WITHIN YOUR CORRUPTED MIND SAID, YOU SAID THAT
IN THE GLORY OF GOD,
WHICH STEPHEN SAW, EITHER
(A) THERE WAS NO GOD! OR
(B) STEPHEN COULD ONLY SEE JESUS, BUT NOT GOD.
NEVERTHELESS:
ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, DEFINITELY WITHOUT THE SINGLE DOUBT,
STEPHEN STILL SAW BOTH
(A) THE GLORY OF GOD and
(B) JESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD!
CONCLUSION ACCORDING TO YOU Mike, NOW IS THAT
STEPHEN SAW THAT
(C) JESUS THE SON OF MAN,
ALL BY HIMSELF STANDING IS BOTH
THE GLORY OF GOD, which Stephen saw, and
GOD JESUS THE SON OF MAN IN HIS GLORY OF GOD.
It’s not hard to understand. Jesus is the image of the invisible God. So you won’t see God. Instead you will see his glory. And the greatest glory of God is the visible image of the invisible God. He has the fullness of the deity within him.
In the throne room is Jesus who is seated on God’s throne. Beyond creation is God. He cannot be contained by creation.
God’s spirit flows through creation via the throne where the river of life is sourced. Jesus is enveloped in the glory of his God and our God. His eyes are like a fire. The river of life flows from the throne and through the streets of the great city and out into the paradise of God.
Creatures worship day and night at the throne because they are located to the source of life. The way the truth the life.
April 19, 2021 at 3:14 pm#870278
Berean
Participant
Hi Proclaimer
You
In the throne room is Jesus who is seated on God’s throne. Beyond creation is God. He cannot be contained by creation.
Me
What do You MEAN by:
He cannot be contained by creation.
???
The scriptures tell us that he (THE FATHER) is a person(Heb.1:3) located in heaven …
Why do you say He cannot be contained by creation?

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
[4] And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.(Rev.22:3,4)
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.(Rev.21:3)
God bless you
April 20, 2021 at 5:51 am#870289
Lightenup
Participant
@Mikeboll64
Mike, you asked me this:
So, the author of Hebrews tells us who created the world, and identifies Jesus as someone other than that One, right? And in the prayer in Acts 4, the Apostles tell us who created the world, and identify Jesus as someone other than that One, right? And what does Jesus himself say about it?
Mark 13:19 …because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now–and never to be equaled again.
So now we have Jesus himself telling us who created the world, right? In fact, Jesus tells us that he is the first creation by that God who created all things…
Rev 3:14 …And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God…
…which of course aligns perfectly with this…
Prov 8:22 …The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.
So how do you align all of these with your idea that Jesus is the Creator?
Mike says:So, the author of Hebrews tells us who created the world, and identifies Jesus as someone other than that One, right?
LU says: No, wrong. The author of Hebrews identifies two persons who created the world and clarifies that the two persons are Father and Son.
Mike says:
Mark 13:19 …because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now–and never to be equaled again.
So now we have Jesus himself telling us who created the world, right?
LU says: Jesus knows that there were two persons creating the world, one is God the Father and the other is the Son of God the Father. God the Father did not do it alone as you know. Jesus knows that when the Father created the world, He did it through Him (the Son).
Mike says: Rev 3:14 …And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God…
LU says: Rev 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Origin of the creation of God, says this:…
The origin of the creation of God, is the Son. The whole creation of God originated in the Son through whom all things were made.
with this: Prov 8:22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.
The Son existed and was part of the Unity of YHVH before the early works of the YHVH (Prov 8:22). The Son was the origin of those early works of YHVH (Rev 3:14). As part of the Unity of YHVH, He (the Son) is identified by the Father as the YHVH that:
Heb 1:10
“In the beginning, O Lord (the Son), You (the Son) laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11They will perish, but You remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed;
but You remain the same,
and Your years will never end.”
I hope that helps.
Blessings, LU

April 20, 2021 at 10:05 am#870290
carmel
Participant
Hi Mike,
YOU:Carmel: NEVERTHELESS:
ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, DEFINITELY WITHOUT THE SINGLE DOUBT,
STEPHEN STILL SAW BOTH
(A) THE GLORY OF GOD and
(B) JESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD!
Correct. No man can see God,
Not correct Mike I’m afraid!
I repeat what I said already, it seems to me that you are not that keen on the
NEW TESTAMENT.
Don’t you know that Jesus fulfilled the OLD TESTAMENT?
From Jesus redemption, ALL CAN SE GOD IN
JESUS CHRIST!
Isaiah 40:55 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
and all flesh together shall see,
that the mouth of the Lord hath spoken.
“THE WORD” IS JESUS THE SON OF MAN!
John1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we saw his glory,
the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth
Philipians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that
the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon
the throne of his glory:
2Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of
the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
John14:8Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. 9Jesus saith to him:
Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip,
he that seeth me seeth the Father also.
How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?
ALL THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES, Mike, CONFIRM THAT
JESUS IS THE GLORY OF GOD IN HIMSELF!
JESUS IS THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE God! Colossians 1:15
Hebrews 1:2 In these days hath spoken to us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed HEIR OF ALL THINGS,….
Now, Mike, as you can read Jesus
INHERITED ALL THINGS,
WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT’S YOUR PIGEON, BUT JESUS INHERITED ALSO THE TITLE OF GOD:
JESUS IS GODMAN!
YOU: Jesus was standing to the right of a radiant glory that Stephen said was the glory of God.
Hebrews 1:3Who being the brightness of his (FATHER’S) glory,
Again, Mike, Jesus is THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE FATHER’S GLORY!
JESUS IS IN THE GLORY OF GOD!
GODMAN!
ME: John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come;
glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
In the above, IN ONE INSTANT, THE FATHER GLORIFIES JESUS, HOW??? AND
JESUS GLORIFIES THE FATHER, HOW??? PERFECT EQUALITY WITH ONE ACT! DEATH!
THE FATHER CANNOT DIE, BUT JESUS DIES FOR THE FATHER’S SAKE AND TRUTH, THEN THE FATHER GLORIFIES THE SON WITH HIS SPIRIT GENERAL ATTRIBUTES OF GOD, WHILE THE SON GLORIFIES THE FATHER IN
THE HOLY GHOST WITH HIS FLESH GENERAL ATTRIBUTES OF HUMANS. ACTS 20:28
MIKE JUST REFLECT, GOD THE FATHER, SPIRIT, NEVER HAD AND STILL, DON’T HAVE
A GLORIFIED FLESH BODY! JERUSALEM!
JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, FLESH, ALSO NEVER HAD, UP TO THAT MOMENT IN TIME HE SPOKE THOSE WORDS,
A GLORIFIED SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY!
NOW READ HEREUNDER:
John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said,
Now is the Son of man GLORIFIED,
and God is glorified IN HIM.
The above is a repetition of John17:1 above: JESUS, HUMAN, IS GLORIFIED IN GOD’S SPIRIT, AND GOD SPIRIT IS GLORIFIED IN JESUS’FLESH. IN
THE HOLY GHOST, who for the first time owned the flesh in
JESUS CHRIST ACTS 20:28
THE SON OF GOD ON JESUS’DEATH ON THE CROSS, emphatically clear hereunder again:
32 If God be glorified IN HIM (JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, FLESH) God shall also glorify him (JESUS, THE SON OF MAN) in himself,( SPIRIT, GODMAN)
and shall straightway glorify him.(ON HIS DEATH)
John17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with THYSELF with the glory which I had, before the world was, with THEE.
JESUS CHRIST WAS THE PHYSICAL EMBODIMENT OF GOD BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!
THE BEGINNING!
John17:10 And all my things are thine, and thine are mine;
and I am glorified in them.
OK Mike, ONLY JESUS IS GLORIFIED TWO IN ONE SUBSTANCE
BOTH IN HIS HUMAN FLESH AND IN THE SPIRIT OF GOD!
GODMAN!
You: Therefore, Stephen saw only the glory of God (not God Himself), and Stephen saw God’s
holy servant Jesus at God’s right hand.
ME: MIKE, JUST TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY AGAIN, ABOUT A BIT OF SCRIPTURE THAT YOU ARE MORE THAN FAMILIAR WITH READ:
1 Corinthians15:Afterwards the end, when he (JESUS CHRIST) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God and the Father,
when he (GOD THE FATHER) shall have brought to nought all principality, and power, and virtue.
TELL ME MIKE IS THE FATHER SERVING JESUS RIGHT NOW??? READ THE NEXT NOW
25For he (JESUS CHRIST) must reign,
until he (GOD THE FATHER) hath put all his (JESUS’) enemies under his feet.
TELL ME MIKE IS THE FATHER SERVING JESUS RIGHT NOW???
26And the enemy death shall be destroyed last: For he(GOD THE FATHER)  hath put all things under his (JESUS’) feet.
TELL ME MIKE IS THE FATHER SERVING JESUS RIGHT NOW???
And whereas he saith, 27All things are put under him; undoubtedly, he (GOD THE FATHER) is excepted,
who put all things under him.
TELL ME MIKE IS THE FATHER SERVING JESUS RIGHT NOW???
28And when all things shall be subdued unto him,
NOW ATTENTION MIKE AND GENE,
THEN ( NOT NOW, OK, Mike and Gene,
Jesus IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE FATHER, to the extent that if it was not JESUS, the Father already annihilated this world, )
the Son also himself shall be subject unto him
that put all things under him,
WHICH MEANS THAT JESUS CHRIST’S GLORIFIED HUMAN BODY
WOULD PASS TO THE FATHER!
GOD THE FATHER AS JESUS CHRIST!
THE FATHER OF THE NEW WORLD TO COME! Isaiah 9:6
AS HE WAS BEFORE THE WORLD WAS, BOTH IN ONE GLORY!
THE FATHER OCCUPIES THE JESUS’ BODY AND
THE SON OCCUPIES BOTH HIS ORIGINAL SPIRIT IN THE FATHER’S BOSOM, AND
IN THE BODIES OF HIS ENTIRE KINGDOM. THE KINGDOM OF THE SONGOD!
that God may be all in all.
YOU: Carmel, when you read scriptures that say Jesus will rule from a throne at God’s right hand, do you assume that something/someone positioned to the right OF God also IS God?
1John3:2 Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that,
when he shall appear,
we shall be like to him:
because we shall see him as
HE IS.
ME: READ ALL THE ABOVE AGAIN Mike, and
TELL ME WHAT DID STEPHEN SEE
IN THE GLORY OF GOD!
BY WHICH STEPHEN REALIZED THAT
JESUS THE SON OF MAN WAS ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD???
HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT
ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD MEANS!!!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

April 26, 2021 at 4:13 am#870375
mikeboll64
Blocked
Mike: So, the author of Hebrews tells us who created the world, and identifies Jesus as someone other than that One, right?
LU: No, wrong. The author of Hebrews identifies two persons who created the world and clarifies that the two persons are Father and Son.
I see the words “he created”. “He” is singular, and refers to “God”. I understand you want to read it as “he AND the Son created”, but those words aren’t there.
Then you compound your error of mentally adding “and the Son” to the scriptural phrase “he created”, by later using verse 10 to remove the Father and conclude that the Son alone made the heavens and the earth.
The author speaks of one who created. You change that in your mind to imagine that the writer is speaking of two who created. But then, when you get to verse 10, you get rid of one of the two you imagined, and imagine that it was the Son alone who laid the foundations of the earth and made the heavens.
The author says A did something, and B was there. You first combine A and B into a team that did the thing together. Then you later dump A and claim that B alone did the thing. 🤔
What if you did that with the prophets through whom God spoke? First you would imagine that the words “God spoke” really mean “God AND a prophet spoke”. Then later, you’d drop God from the equation and conclude that it was only the prophet who spoke, and God was just somehow there in the background.
How about we just let the author teach us, instead of us teaching him? The author says “he created”. The “he” is singular, and refers to “God” alone – not God and the Son.
“He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.” – Tertullian
April 26, 2021 at 4:37 am#870376
mikeboll64
Blocked
Mike: Mark 13:19 …because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now–and never to be equaled again.
So now we have Jesus himself telling us who created the world, right?
LU: Jesus knows that there were two persons creating the world, one is God the Father and the other is the Son of God the Father. God the Father did not do it alone as you know. Jesus knows that when the Father created the world, He did it through Him (the Son).
What? “Jesus knows”, therefore if Jesus clearly says “when God created the world“, we should imagine that he really meant “when I and God created the world“? Kathi, why do you think you insert your own words and thoughts into what what the author of Hebrews actually wrote, and what Jesus actually said? I think it’s because the scriptures don’t actually teach what you’d like them to. In fact, I think it’s because the scriptures teach the complete opposite of what you’d like them to teach, and so you have no choice but to go all mental gymnastics on the actual words/teachings in the Bible.
But even with your additional words/thoughts added in, you again defeat your Hebrews 1:10 claim. You can’t argue that every time scripture says “God created” it means “God AND Jesus created“, but then turn around and argue that 1:10 is God speaking about Jesus. Because if it were God speaking about Jesus, then God isn’t saying “you AND I created” or “WE created“, right? Instead, it would be God giving 100% credit for creating the heavens and earth to Jesus. It would be God telling someone else, YOU did these things – not WE did them.
You’re twisting scriptures, adding to them, and still coming out on the losing end. Time to just let the scriptures teach you.
April 26, 2021 at 4:51 am#870377
mikeboll64
Blocked
Mike: Rev 3:14 …And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God…
LU: Rev 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Origin of the creation of God, says this:…
The origin of the creation of God, is the Son. The whole creation of God originated in the Son through whom all things were made.
I can get on board with that. God’s creation most certainly originated with Jesus – His first creation. And that would certainly make Jesus the “origin” of the creation by God. That’s why it’s written that Jesus is the firstborn of every creature and that God created him as the first of His works.
But the word “beginning” would have the same meaning in that case – so why even bother with semantics? The same author uses the same word in both of these scriptures…
Rev 3:14… These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God…
John 1:1… In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God…

April 26, 2021 at 5:15 am#870379
mikeboll64
Blocked
LU: Prov 8:22 “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old.
From the 25 Trinitarian scholars who produced the NET Bible…
There are two roots קָנָה (qanah) in Hebrew, one meaning “to possess,” and the other meaning “to create.” The earlier English versions did not know of the second root, but suspected in certain places that a meaning like that was necessary (e.g., Gen 4:1; 14:19; Deut 32:6). Ugaritic confirmed that it was indeed another root… the parallel ideas in these verses (“appointed,” “given birth”) argue for the translation of “create”…
Consider the parallel verses…
Proverbs 8 NIV (Produced by 100+ Trinitarian Scholars!)
22“The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
Even if you insist on a meaning of “possessed”, it still would say that Jesus was a possession of God (as are all of God’s creations). But all the other verses talking about being “brought forth” and “given birth” clearly argue for the meaning of “created” – not “possessed”. And if we continue reading, we’ll see Jesus himself once again telling us who created all things…
26before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30Then I was constantly at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
Kathi, who do you suppose all those singular pronouns refer to? I know they refer back to “YHVH” in verse 22. Will you now change every “he” to “we”, and every “his” to “our” in your quest to make Jesus the co-creator who for some reason is identified as the sole creator in Hebrews 1:10?

April 26, 2021 at 5:22 am#870380
carmel
Participant
Hi Gene,
YOU: God the Father gives “HIS” Glory, to “NO” man, your the one doing that, not him nor any true believer .
ME: Scriptures Gene:
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God,
WHO IS THIS GOD THAT THEY KNEW OF?
they have not glorified him as God,….
23And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God
WHO IS THIS INCORRUPTIBLE GOD Gene?
into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things.
John 17:10 And all my things are thine, and
thine are mine;
Gene IN THE ABOVE JESUS CONFIRMED THAT
ALL GOD’S THINGS ARE HIS, WHICH INCLUDES FOR SURE GOD’S GLORY, NO? CONFIRMED HEREUNDER:
and I am glorified in them.
John13:31When he therefore was gone out, Jesus said:
Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
Gene, PURE TRUTH CONFIRMED ABOVE THAT
JESUS “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN, AND GOD ARE RIGHT NOW EXPERIENCING
ONE SAME GLORY!
32If God be glorified in him, God also will glorify him
in himself;…..
Gene, AGAIN, JESUS, “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN RIGHT NOW
IS GLORIFIED IN ONE GLORY IN GOD!
Hebrews 1:3Who being the brightness of his (FATHER’S) glory,
Again, Gene, Jesus is
THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE FATHER’S GLORY!
JESUS IS IN THE GLORY OF GOD!
GODMAN!
Isaiah 40:55 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
and all flesh together shall see,
that the mouth of the Lord hath spoken.
Gene, THE MOUTH OF THE LORD HAS SPOKEN, AND HIS OWN WORD/SPIRIT BECAME
FLESH AND THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER WAS
REVEALED IN JESUS, AND THE HUMAN RACE SAW
THE GLORY OF GOD, THE FULL DEITY IN A FLESH HUMAN BEING
JESUS CHRIST
IN AL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN,
ALL OF HEAVEN!
Acts 7:55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looking up steadfastly to heaven,
saw the glory of God,
and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.
And he said: Behold, I see the heavens opened, and
the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Gene, IN THE ABOVE STEPHEN, SAW:
the Son of man standing on the right hand of God
IN ONE GLORY OF GOD!

THAT SHOULD DO IT Gene, THOUGH A BLIND AND CARNAL MINDED PERSON LIKE YOU, WITH EVERY RESPECT,
NEVER SEE THE TRUTH!

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

April 26, 2021 at 5:39 am#870381
mikeboll64
Blocked
Carmel: TELL ME MIKE IS THE FATHER SERVING JESUS RIGHT NOW???
I don’t believe your mind is completely connected to the real world, Carmel. If you were poor, and an anonymous benefactor just started paying your bills so you and your family wouldn’t be out on the streets, would you consider that benefactor your servant? 🤔 So strange. Your extremely long and extremely convoluted post can be summed up perfectly in this 30 second clip…
April 26, 2021 at 6:02 am#870382
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Mike….your first two posts to LU, Were perfect IMO. Your last post, i see different, because it says, In the beginning was the word and the word was with God, and “WAS GOD” . This to me simply shows God and his word are one and the same.
The man Jesus, “became”, a “new” ,  Creation of God, the First of the human creation of God to go into the family of God, as a “eternal living”, “human being” “First place in line of many to follow. I have never seen a scripture that says Jesus was the first thing God “ever” created. I am not saying one doesn’t exist , but I have never saw it.
He in my opinion is not the first of all of God’s creation, that he ever created. The universe was probably the actual first thing God created, in plan for his ultimate human creation , as the Greek word “dia”, implies for a purpose of . The word “FIRST” , CAN IMPLY a lot of things, like the first in line of a particular line of something.
Mike I do like your responses, they do show some good solid reasoning brother.
Peace and love to you and yours…….gene

April 26, 2021 at 9:49 am#870383
carmel
Participant
Hi Mike,
YOU: I don’t believe your mind is completely connected to the real world, Carmel.
If you were poor,
and an anonymous benefactor just started paying your bills so you and your family wouldn’t be out on the streets, would you consider that benefactor your servant?
ME: So strange.
WITH YOUR ANALOGUE,
I don’t believe your mind is completely connected to the real world, MIKE.
PRODUCE A REAL ANALOGUE CONNECTED TO THE REAL WORLD Mike if you want to win your argument!
WE ARE DISCUSSING SPIRITUAL THINGS Mike,
OUT OF THIS REAL WORLD!!!
HOW MANY TIMES I TOLD YOU NOT TO PUT GOD IN THE AME BASKET AS HUMANS OF
THIS REAL WORLD?
John13:5After that, he putteth water into a basin, and
began to wash the feet of the disciples,
and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. 6He cometh therefore to Simon Peter. And Peter saith to him:
Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
7Jesus answered, and said to him: What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. 8Peter saith to him:
Thou shalt never wash my feet.
Jesus answered him: If I wash thee not, thou shalt have no part with me. 9Simon Peter saith to him:
Lord, not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.
Mike, did Jesus serve Peter and His apostles?
WAS JESUS CONNECTED TO THIS REAL WORLD?
Mike, did you ever serve
YOUR OWN SON?
ANSWER PLEASE!
I DID!!!
ESPECIALLY WHEN I CHANGED HIS NAPPY AT HIS AGE OF A FEW DAYS!
I am serving my son right at this MOMENT IN TIME DOING THE ENTIRE FURNITURE OF HIS HOUSE FOR HIM
WITHOUT ANY CHARGES AT ALL FOR DOING IT!
AM I SERVING MY SON?
AM I CONNECTED TO THE REAL WORLD?

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
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saw only the person of Jesus and not the person of God.

(A) THE GLORY OF GOD,

(B) JESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD.

(A) THERE WAS NO GOD! OR

(B) STEPHEN COULD ONLY SEE JESUS, BUT NOT GOD.

(A) THE GLORY OF GOD and

(B) JESUS STANDING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD!

(C) JESUS THE SON OF MAN,

ALL BY HIMSELF STANDING IS BOTH

THE GLORY OF GOD, which Stephen saw, and

GOD JESUS THE SON OF MAN IN HIS GLORY OF GOD.

Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess ( Also you Mike, Gene, and Jodi) that

the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

JESUS CHRIST!

Isaiah 40:55 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed,

and all flesh together shall see,

“THE WORD” IS JESUS THE SON OF MAN!

(and we saw his glory,

the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon

the throne of his glory:

the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

he that seeth me seeth the Father also.How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?

Hebrews 1:2 In these days hath spoken to us by his Son,

whom he hath appointed HEIR OF ALL THINGS,….

Now, Mike, as you can read Jesus

INHERITED ALL THINGS,

WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT’S YOUR PIGEON, BUT JESUS INHERITED ALSO THE TITLE OF GOD:

JESUS IS GODMAN!

Hebrews 1:3Who being the brightness of his (FATHER’S) glory,

JESUS IS IN THE GLORY OF GOD!

GODMAN!

glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

A GLORIFIED FLESH BODY! JERUSALEM!

A GLORIFIED SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY!

Now is the Son of man GLORIFIED,

and God is glorified IN HIM.

THE HOLY GHOST, who for the first time owned the flesh in

JESUS CHRIST ACTS 20:28

THE BEGINNING!

and I am glorified in them.

GODMAN!

You: Therefore, Stephen saw only the glory of God (not God Himself), and Stephen saw God’s

holy servant Jesus at God’s right hand.

TELL ME MIKE IS THE FATHER SERVING JESUS RIGHT NOW??? READ THE NEXT NOW

25For he (JESUS CHRIST) must reign,

TELL ME MIKE IS THE FATHER SERVING JESUS RIGHT NOW???

TELL ME MIKE IS THE FATHER SERVING JESUS RIGHT NOW???

TELL ME MIKE IS THE FATHER SERVING JESUS RIGHT NOW???

THEN ( NOT NOW, OK, Mike and Gene,

Jesus IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE FATHER, to the extent that if it was not JESUS, the Father already annihilated this world, )

the Son also himself shall be subject unto him

that God may be all in all.

when he shall appear,we shall be like to him:

HE IS.

IN THE GLORY OF GOD!

JESUS THE SON OF MAN WAS ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD???

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God,

they have not glorified him as God,….

23And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God

thine are mine;

and I am glorified in them.

Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.

ONE SAME GLORY!

in himself;…..

IS GLORIFIED IN ONE GLORY IN GOD!

Hebrews 1:3Who being the brightness of his (FATHER’S) glory,

THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE FATHER’S GLORY!

GODMAN!

Isaiah 40:55 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed,

and all flesh together shall see,

JESUS CHRIST

ALL OF HEAVEN!

saw the glory of God,

the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

the Son of man standing on the right hand of God

IN ONE GLORY OF GOD!

If you were poor,

ME: So strange.

he that seeth me seeth the Father also.
How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?

when he shall appear,
we shall be like to him: