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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • April 5, 2021 at 7:59 am#870090
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Carmel,  Jesus said the God was the “ONLY” true GOD”,  NOT ME, I just believe him, obviously you don’t honestly believe him. Trying to twist what i say is exactly wha you do with what Jesus And so many other scripture also say. 

    ME: NOW WITH YOUR OWN MOUTH Gene

    YOU SIMPLY CONFIRMED THAT

    NO JESUS  NO THE ONLY TRUE GOD!

     

    JESUS IS THE TRUE GOD ON EARTH!

     

    1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come:

    and he hath given us understanding that WE MAY KNOW THE TRUE GOD

    AND MAY BE IN HIS TRUE SON.

    This is the true God and life eternal.

    Read Gene this scripture:

    Matthew 23:2 And whosoever shall swear by temple,

    sweareth by it,

    and by him that dwelleth in it:

    NOW, IF YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRUTH, ANSWER Gene:

    WHO DWELLS IN THE TEMPLE?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

    April 5, 2021 at 9:20 am#870091
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: So what does it tell us that Stephen was able to see the person of Jesus, but NOT the person of God?

    ME: NO MIKE THIS IS ONLY YOUR PERCEPTION I’M AFRAID!

    Read what Stephen, NOT ONLY SAW but alsoWHAT HE DISTINGUISHED FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME!

    Actas 7:55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looking up steadfastly to heaven,

    saw the glory of God,

    and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.

    And he said: Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 

    Mike can you understand WHAT ACTUALLY  STEPHEN SAW and DESCRIBED that 

    HE SAW THE GLORY OF GOD?

    Mike I ASK YOU NOW AND DESCRIBE FOR US ALL

    WHAT THE GLORY OF GOD THAT STEPHEN SAW FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME AND FOR ETERNITY CONSISTS IN?

     ANSWER THE TRUTH?

    YOU: Also notice that Stephen clearly distinguished Jesus FROM God by identifying him as one who sat at the right hand OF God.

    PERFECT MIKE!

    WHAT IS THE REASON AND MEANING THAT STEPHEN HAD TO DISTINGUISH 

    JESUS FROM GOD?

    TELL US THE TRUTH Mike PLEASE!

    JUST TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY ABOUT A BIT OF SCRIPTURE THAT YOU ARE MORE THAN FAMILIAR WITH  READ:

    1 Corinthians15:Afterwards the end, when he (JESUS CHRIST) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God and the Father,

    when he (GOD THE FATHER) shall have brought to nought all principality, and power, and virtue. 

    25For he (JESUS CHRIST) must reign,

    until he (GOD THE FATHER) hath put all his (JESUS’) enemies under his feet. 

    26And the enemy death shall be destroyed last: For he(GOD THE FATHER)  hath put all things under his (JESUS’) feet. And whereas he saith, 27All things are put under him; undoubtedly, he (GOD THE FATHER)  is excepted, who put all things under him. 28And when all things shall be subdued unto him,

     

    NOW THIS IS MOSTLY FOR  Gene, 

    THEN ( NOT NOW)  

    the Son also himself shall be subject unto him

    that put all things under him,

    WHICH MEANS THAT JESUS CHRIST’S  GLORIFIED HUMAN BODY WOULD PASS TO THE FATHER! 

    GOD THE FATHER AS JESUS CHRIST!

    THE FATHER OF THE NEW WORLD TO COME! Isaiah 9:6

    AS HE WAS BEFORE THE WORLD WAS, BOTH IN ONE GLORY! 

    THE FATHER OCCUPIES  THE SON’S BODY AND THE SON OCCUPIES BOTH HIS ORIGINAL SPIRIT IN THE FATHER’S BOSOM, AND

    IN THE BODIES OF HIS  ENTIRE KINGDOM. THE KINGDOM OF GOD!

    that God may be all in all.

    GOD WOULD BE IN THE ENTIRE KINGDOM OF THE SON IN!

    THE FATHER  ( ALL SPIRITS) in 

    THE SON  ( ALL FLESH) and in

    THE HOLY GHOST ( ALL SOULS)

    ALL IN ONE SAME BODY,

    1John3:2 Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that,

    when he shall appear,

    we shall be like to him:

    because we shall see him as HE IS. 

    furnished by God 1 corinthians 15:38

    THE NEW JERUSALEM

    TELL US Mike NOW

    WHAT DID STEPHEN SEE IN THE GLORY OF GOD?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    April 6, 2021 at 2:15 am#870097
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel….. Sorry to say this,  but, I have never seen anyone twist up our scriptures more then you are. That to me is sad,  Nearly everything you quote to me and others and what you quoted to Mike is a twisted up rendition of someone who can’t  even read our bible text , even the “simple” things correctly .
    You have bought into all the lies of what the fallen “trinitarian ” churches teach, and as a result will suffer-their  fate.  Unless you repent.

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

     

    April 6, 2021 at 5:37 am#870100
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Carmel….. Sorry to say this,  but, I have never seen anyone twist up our scriptures more then you are.

    ME: THE ABOVE Gene, IS YOUR FIRST ACCUSATION AGAINST ME, WITHOUT ANY SPECIFIC PROOF.

    YOU: That to me is sad,  Nearly everything you quote to me and others and what you quoted to Mike is a twisted up rendition of someone who can’t  even read our bible text , even the “simple” things correctly .

    ME: THE ABOVE IS ANOTHER SIMILAR ACCUSATION AND AGAIN WITHOUT ANY SPECIFIC PROOF THAT WHAT YOU ARE INSINUATING IS TRUE!

    I AM VERY SORRY MYSELF TO SAY THIS Gene, BUT YOU ARE FULL OF LIES, YOU ARE THE FATHER OF LIES! IMO.

    YOU:You have bought into all the lies of what the fallen “trinitarian ” churches teach, and as a result will suffer-their  fate.  Unless you repent.

    ME: IN THE ABOVE Gene, YOU SIMPLY MADE A TOPSY TURVY OF WHAT YOU SAID FURTHER UP, AND INSTEAD

    ACCUSED THE TRINITARIAN CHURCHES  NOT ME,

    AND NOW ACCORDING TO YOU,

    WHAT I PREACHED IS NOT  A TWISTED UP RENDITION OF SOMEONE WHO CAN’T EVEN READ OUR BIBLE, EVEN THE ” SIMPLE” THINGS CORRECTLY. BUT INSTEAD

    I BOUGHT INTO ALL THE LIES OF WHAT THE FALLEN TRINITARIAN CHURCHES TEACH! 

    BY YOUR OWN WORDS INDIRECTLY AND UNAWARE OF WHAT YOU’RE SAYING,

    TOTALLY SUBJECT TO YOUR CARNAL REASONING AND MENTALITY, 

    I AM NOT WHAT YOU’VE BEEN INSINUATING IN ALL YOUR POSTS!

    NOW THE TRUTH IS Gene, THAT YOU ARE NOT CAPABLE TO ANSWER ONE QUESTION I ASKED YOU  IN ALL MY POSTS AND ALSO PRODUCE  SPEFICILLY ANY PROOF IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY ALL WHAT YOU’ VE BEEN SCREAMING ABOUT.

    IN THE MEANTIME Gene, I REPEAT: are YOU in a position to answer 

    MY LAST QUESTION HEREUNDER?

    Read this scripture FIRST:

    Matthew 23:2 And whosoever shall swear by temple,

    sweareth by it,

    and by him that dwelleth in it:

    NOW, IF YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRUTH, ANSWER Gene:

    WHO DWELLS IN THE TEMPLE?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 6, 2021 at 4:21 pm#870104
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @mikeboll64

    You said: The one through whom God created the world was not God.

    Yes He was. He just wasn’t God the Father.

    Look at verse 4…

    …having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

    Do you really imagine that there was a time when God became superior to the angels by inheriting a better name than theirs?  Up until that time, God was equal to or lesser than the angels?

    He was made lower than the angels when the Son emptied Himself of His holy splendor to come in the appearance of man. Then when He had made purification for sins, He was exalted above them. The context as to becoming superior to the angels comes after He made purification for sins. Read it for yourself.

    The God that made the world was God the Father, one person who made the world through another person, His Son. That makes two persons, the Father and someone other than the Father.

    The “you” and “your” in this passage spoken by the Father, is the Son each time.

    THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU

    WITH THE OIL OF JOY ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.” 10And,

    “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,

    AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

    11THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN;

    AND THEY ALL WILL WEAR OUT LIKE A GARMENT,

    12AND LIKE A ROBE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP;

    LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED.

    BUT YOU ARE THE SAME,

    AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”

    The Father of the One whom He created through tells us clearly that the Son is YHVH that laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning and that the heavens are the works of the Son’s hands.

    Please note that Heb 1:10 does not say “your LORD, in the beginning…” it says “you LORD, in the beginning…”

    This is clear, the Father is identifying His Son as YHVH.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f45N8fXMruo&t=3s

    Fast forward to the 24 minute mark.

    Blessings, LU

    April 7, 2021 at 2:44 am#870109
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…..the proof is how you add word , thoughts, and even change the meanings to our text. Anyone with any true understanding of what is written can see that, you bounce all over the place, adding words, changing meanings ,  you seem unable to just stay on one point at a time. You remind me of a person trying to get a speck out of someones eye and have a log  in your own. “Bad form”. 

    peace and love to you and yours………..gene

    April 7, 2021 at 2:53 am#870110
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…..I just though of something you ask,  Good,  lets slow this down a bit and discuss it.
    I say,  “the man” Jesus Christ is now sitting,  In the “temple ”  of God.
    What say you?

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

     

    April 7, 2021 at 7:21 am#870116
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU:Carmel…..I just though of something you ask,  Good,  lets slow this down a bit and discuss it.

    ME: Read this scripture FIRST:

    Matthew 23:2 And whosoever shall swear by temple,

    sweareth by it,

    and by him that dwelleth in it:

    YOU:I say,  “the man” Jesus Christ is now sitting,  In the “temple ”  of God.
    What say you?

    ME: As you can read again Gene, the scripture by Jesus says

    sweareth by it,

    and by him that dwelleth in it:

    “DWELLS” NOT JUST NOW BUT IN THE PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE as long as this world stands!

    ALSO, JESUS CHRIST ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE, DOES NOT SITT ALL BY HIMSELF DOES HE?

    So let’s stick to the sculpture

    WHO DWELLS IN THE TEMPLE? 

    I MEAN “HIM”

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

    April 7, 2021 at 9:01 am#870118
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Hi Gene,

    YOU:Carmel…..the proof is how you add word , thoughts, and even change the meanings to our text.

    ME: Gene unless you are specific and produce the particulars, HOW ON EARTH AM I GOING TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO, NEVER MIND ANSWERING YOU SINCE ACCORDING TO YOU, THERE ARE SO MANY ALTERATIONS 

    YOU: Anyone with any true understanding of what is written can see that,

    ME: Gene, AGAIN THERE CANNOT BE  ANY TRUE UNDERSTANDING UNLESS THERE IS ALSO, GENERALLY SPEAKING, TRUE MATURITY  OF THE INDIVIDUAL  WITH RESPECT TO THE CONTENT THAT IS WRITTEN ESPECIALLY SCRIPTURE  AND WHAT IS RELATED TO IT, I MEAN

    THE SPIRITUAL MESSAGE! GOD’S, WHO IS SPIRIT, OF WHICH

    I MADE IT VERY CLEAR IN MY POSTS.

    YOU: you bounce all over the place, adding words, changing meanings,

    ME: BUT  FOR GOD’S SAKE BE SPECIFIC SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU ARE LOOKING AT MY WRITINGS IN THAT MANNER.

    You: you seem

    ME: IT IS NOT HOW I AM SEEN, BUT HOW IN THE TRUTH I AM, NO?

    YOU: unable to just stay on one point at a time.

    FROM YOUR SIDE MOST PROBABLY YOU ARE RIGHT, BUT AGAIN UNLESS YOU ARE AWARE OF MY INTENTIONS FOR DOING THIS, YOU WILL NEVER ACCEPT IT, AND UNLESS YOU ARE HUMBLE ENOUGH BE SPECIFIC AND ASK YOU REMAIN BLOCKED WITHIN YOUR CARNAL MIND, AND SUBJECT TO IT. WITH EVERY RESPECT!

    Jodi proclaims to prove scripture with scripture, FOR YOU THAT IT ISN’T BOUNCING ALL OVER THE PLACE, NEVERTHELESS

     YOU ACCEPT IT SIMPLY BECAUSE BOTH OF YOU ARE IN THE SAME BOAT! 

    FOCUSSED ONLY ON JESUS’ HUMANITY, WHICH IS ENTIRELY SATAN’S PERSPECTIVE WELL CLEAR IN

    Mark 8:33 Who turning about and seeing his disciples, threatened Peter, saying:

    Go behind me, Satan, because thou savorest not the things that are of God,

    but that are of men.

    YOU: You remind me of a person trying to get a speck out of someones eye and

    have a log in your own.

    “Bad form”. 

    I REPEAT THAT’S ONLY WITHIN YOUR IMMATURE UNDERSTANDINGS SINCE YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF AND NEVER BE SPECIFIC SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE PREOCCUPIED THAT THE TRUTH WILL BE REVEALED.IMO.

    Now  just read this scripture hereunder in order to UNDERSTAND what I mean regarding

    SPIRITUAL MATURITY:

    1John3:2 Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be.

    We know, that, when he shall appear, 

    we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.

    WHO IS THIS HIM, THAT WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM?

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 8, 2021 at 2:05 am#870125
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…..I am specific,  again, what man is “now” sitting in the “temple” of God , Sitting at the right hand of God, and being displayed as a ” GOD”?

    Simple question, just want a simple answer,  not a essay of you skipping around trying to avoid the simplicity of the question.

    Are you even able to answer that simple question? Simply?

    Peace and love to you and yours………gene

    April 8, 2021 at 9:20 am#870136
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    Carmel…..I am specific,  again, what man is “now” sitting in the “temple” of God , Sitting at the right hand of God, and being displayed as a ” GOD”?

    ME: IN THE ABOVE Gene, YOU ARE REFERRING TO JESUS THE SON OF MAN!

    YOU FORGOT THAT JESUS SAID THAT SCRIPTURE! READ AGAIN:

    Matthew 23:2 And whosoever shall swear by temple,

    sweareth by it,

    and by “HIM” that dwelleth in it:

     

    ANSWER: WHO DWELLS IN THE TEMPLE? 

    I MEAN WHO IS “HIM” that Jesus referred to.

    Simple question, Gene, just want a simple answer,

    Are you even able to answer that simple question? Simply?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 9, 2021 at 2:28 am#870145
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel,  yea , but for now lets talk about the ” Son of man”, that is sitting there ok?
    you have acknowledged that Jesus is a “Son of man” and ,     is sitting in the “temple of God , in heaven “right now” .  Thats correct, he is in fact the ‘” only Son of man , “now”,  sitting there at this time, right?

    before I go on, are we in agreement so far,  please just yes or no?

    peace and love to you and yours…….gene

    April 9, 2021 at 9:39 am#870149
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Carmel,  yea , but for now lets talk about the ” Son of man”, that is sitting there ok?

    ME: WHAT DO YOU MEAN:

    FOR NOW, LET’S TALK ABOUT THE SON OF MAN?

    Gene, UNLESS YOU, FIRST ANSWER MY QUESTION, I WILL NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING ELSE. FINE?

    never mind YES or NO!

    SO

    ANSWER: WHO DWELLS IN THE TEMPLE? 

    I MEAN WHO IS “HIM” that Jesus referred to.

     

    Peace and Love in Jesus Christ

    April 10, 2021 at 1:47 am#870159
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel….I say him, that certainly do not mean me, unless used in a prophetic statement concerning “himself’. 
    Now that you have my answer,  please answer my question. Who is the “only” son of man , “now” sitting in the true temple of God, being declared and worshiped as a God ?

    Is it the ‘Son of man, ’ Jesus Christ?  Yes or no please.
    Simple question why can’t you answer it?.

    April 12, 2021 at 2:51 am#870197
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Carmel: TELL US Mike NOW

    WHAT DID STEPHEN SEE IN THE GLORY OF GOD?

    I imagine that Stephen saw a bright and colorful radiance sitting next to Jesus.  I imagine that Stephen saw what Moses saw…

    Exodus 33

    18Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”

    19And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence… 20But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

    21Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

    The point I made to Berean was that Stephen was able to see Jesus, but not God.  Repeat those words to yourself:  Stephen could see Jesus, but not God.  Jesus, but not God.  Jesus, but not God.

    Carmel, why could Stephen see the person of Jesus, but not the person of God?  And doesn’t that mean that the person of Jesus is not the person of God?

    April 12, 2021 at 3:43 am#870199
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike:  The one through whom God created the world was not God.
    LU: Yes He was. He just wasn’t God the Father.

    Hebrews 1:1-2

    In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us through his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the world.

    Kathi, who spoke to the forefathers through prophets?  God, right?  Who is the “he” that has spoken to us through his son?  Still God, right?  Who is the “he” that appointed the son heir of all things?  Still God, right? Who is the “he” that made the universe? Still God, right?

    Just follow the subject throughout…  God spoke in the past; God spoke in more recent times; God appointed someone; God created the world.

    There are others identified here, namely “the prophets” and “his son”.  But the teaching is that God did x, y, and z through either “the prophets” or “his son”.

    So at this point, can you and I agree that the writer is talking about one particular god, and the prophets/son through whom this particular god did certain things?

    April 12, 2021 at 4:07 am#870200
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Hey Eddie Valentino, I didn’t hear back from you.  Are we finally in agreement that the light that came into the world as a light for the Gentiles – the light about whom John bore witness in the wilderness – is the person known by the disciples as Jesus from Nazareth, who said…

    “I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in Me should remain in darkness.”

    and…

    “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows Me will never walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”

    and…

    “While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

    ?

    Notice the parallel of Jesus’ words “the light of life” and John’s words in 1:4… In Him was life, and that life was the light of men.

    Cheers.

    April 12, 2021 at 4:19 am#870201
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Mike,

    You asked: So at this point, can you and I agree that the writer is talking about one particular god, and the prophets/son through whom this particular god did certain things?

    Yes, God the Father of Jesus who was not alone creating the world, specifically.

    April 14, 2021 at 8:32 am#870218
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: The point I made to Berean was that

    Stephen was able to see Jesus, but not God. 

    Repeat those words to yourself:  Stephen could see Jesus, but not God.  Jesus, but not God.  Jesus, but not God.

    Carmel, why could Stephen see the person of Jesus, but not the person of God?  And doesn’t that mean that the person of Jesus is not the person of God?

     

    ME: Mike first and foremost, Stephen saw

    THE SON OF MAN, not just Jesus.

    Now you know what that means in those days Mike, don’t you?

    THE FACT THAT STEPHEN DECLARED SO ON EARTH! SATANIC!!!

    WHICH MEANS THAT THE SON OF MAN , A HUMAN BEING,

    IS IN ONE GLORY WITH GOD!

    THE FACT THAT THEY KILLED HIM.

    IF STEPHEN SAID THAT HE SAW ONLY GOD THEY WOULDN’T HAVE KILLED HIM MIKE!

    Read my question again:

    TELL US Mike NOW

    WHAT DID STEPHEN SEE IN THE GLORY OF GOD? Now read the scripture as well:

    Acts 7:55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looking up steadfastly to heaven,

    saw the glory of God,

    and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.

    And he said: Behold, I see the heavens opened, and

    the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 

    THUS STEPHEN SAW

    THE GLORY OF GOD!

    JESUS Mike IS NOT ONLY INCLUDED IN THAT ONE GLORY BUT

    JESUS IS THE  ACTUAL GLORY OF GOD!

    THE FACT THAT STEPHEN HAD TO REVEAL THIS UNIQUE UNBELIEVEABLE GLORY IN

    THE SON OF MAN. Now read scriptures:

    Isaiah 40:55 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed,

    and all flesh together shall see, that the mouth of the Lord hath spoken.

    Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his (FATHER’S) glory,

    and the express image of his (FATHER’S) person, and

    upholding all things by the word of his (FATHER’S) power,…

     

    John1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

    (and we saw his glory,

    the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

    Philipians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that

    the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

    Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory,

    and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon

    the throne of his glory:

     

    2Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of

    the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

    That is more than enough Mike.

    NOW  ANSWER HOW COULD STEPHEN DETERMINE THAT JESUS WAS STANDING

    AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD

    IF HE DIDN’T SEE GOD?

    JESUS WOULD HAVE BEEN ALL BY HIMSELF NO?:

    YOU:Exodus 33

    18Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”

    19And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence… 20But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

    21Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

    Mike regarding the above scripture, it seems to me that you are not that keen on the

    NEW TESTAMENT.

    Don’t you know that Jesus fulfilled the OLD TESTAMENT AND THE SCRIPTURES YOU POSTED ABOVE, DO NOT APPLY! WHY YOU MIGHT ASK?

    Mike, FROM JESUS’ REDEMPTION GOD THE FATHER IS IN THE POSITION TO REVEAL HIMSELF TO WHOM HE PLEASES, SIMPLY AS  JESUS ESTABLISHED ALL ANEW

    BETWEEN GOD THE FATHER AND HUMANITY,

    THE FACT THAT HE IS SOVEREIGN OVER ALL AND IN ONE FULL GLORY AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD.

    NOW HERE THIS WHETHER YOU BELIVE IT OR NOT,

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE

    IDENTICAL IN EVERY SENSE!

    Hebrews 1:3Who being the brightness of his (FATHER’S) glory,

    and the EXPRESS IMAGE of his (FATHER’S) person, and

    upholding all things by the word of his (FATHER’S) power,…

     

    John14:8Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. 9Jesus saith to him:

    Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip,

    he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    How sayest thou, Shew us the Father? 

    THE MAIN REASON THAT THE FATHER NEVER REVEALED HIMSELF BEFORE WAS SIMPLY IN ORDER TO ALLOW HIS SON TO DO SO,

    IN HIMSELF

    JESUS CHRIST. 

    John8:54 Jesus answered:

    If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifieth me, of whom you say that he is your God.

    REFLECT MIKE ON THE ABOVE STATEMENT FROM JESUS!

    JESUS REFERRED TO HIS ACTUAL HUMAN PERSON, AND HE MEANT THAT AS A HUMAN PERSON

    GOD THE FATHER GLORIFIES HIM, HOW? OBVIOUS

    Jesus is THE IMAGE of the invisible God! Colossians 1:15

     55And you have not known him, but I know him.

    And if I shall say that I know him not, I shall be like to you,

    a liar.

    WHY A LIAR?

    But I do know him, and

    do keep his word. 

    DID YOU GET THIS Mike?

    KEEP:5083 tēréō (from tēros, “a guard”) – properly, maintain (preserve);

    JESUS DECLARED THAT HE GUARDS, PRESERVES, AND MAINTAINS THE FATHER’S WORD!

    PRACTICALLY HE CONFIRMED THAT HE IS

    “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD.

    THE FACT ALSO THAT THE FATHER WAS EMBODIED IN HIS SON IN ONE GLORY BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

    John 17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had,

    before the world was, with thee.

    JESUS CHRIST WAS/IS THE EMODIMENT OF GOD 

    THE BEGINNING BEFORE ALL  Colossians 1:17, Micah 5:2

    THE FACT THAT HE EMPTIED HIMSELF.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 15, 2021 at 2:26 am#870219
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike……Try dealing with that, maze of twists and turns. LOL.

    Peace and love to you and yours………..gene

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