Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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October 20, 2020 at 11:54 pm#866983
Berean
Participant
who has sent his angel and rescued his servants!
THIS Angel IS the Angel OF the Lord
Not a mere angel but Thé Angel
who is assimilated to YHWH HIMSELF
“In reading passages that mention the angel of the Lord (YHWH) such as in Exodus 3 and many other passages, you can see that the text quickly conflates the angel of the Lord with YHWH. In contrast, when an angel appears without this distinction, the angel maintains his own identity separate from YHWH. – Dieter Sep 9 ’17 at 1:35”
October 21, 2020 at 12:17 am#866984
Jodi
Participant
To All,
The below passages give us a clear message,
Luke 4:1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that THIS IS the Son of God.
2 Peter 1: 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God, …..
….1:10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
Jesus of Nazareth is called God’s only begotten Son BECAUSE JESUS was the only one begotten of the Spirit of God not by measure, filled with grace and TRUTH where he would PREACH the word of God. Such was an anointing that no other mortal man received, whereupon that anointing he was thus the Son of God who was SENT out into the world being not of the world but directly down from heaven, sent to us directly from God for to be our savior, where people beheld his glory as he did God’s work through the Spirit that he had been begotten with.

October 21, 2020 at 12:27 am#866985
Jodi
Participant
Berean,
God sends HIS angels, who are His Sons, to earth to perform His will, and they obey Him.
Daniel 3 is speaking of one of God’s Sons, an angel, that performed God’s will.
October 21, 2020 at 12:40 am#866986
Berean
Participant
Jodi
You
“You have not responded as I am aware, that you are told directly from scripture, that there was NO COMING of a savior UNTIL AFTER John preached of baptism. But that is not what you say.”
Me
The divine Son of God pre-exist and WAS BEFORE JOHN THE BAPTIST
John the Baptist :
John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. (V.15)
He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

JESUS IS HE THAT COMETH FROM HEAVEN AND HE IS ABOVE ALL.
October 21, 2020 at 12:55 am#866987
Jodi
Participant
To All,
Jesus, the Son of Man who is in heaven at God’s right hand, is the son of David, and he is “declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.”
Acts 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
JESUS, as he sits at God’s right hand is NOT a Son of God because he pre-existed as God’s Son, he is a Son of Man who is God’s Son ACCORDING to the Spirit he received by promise, when he rose from the dead.
This same Spirit he had received at the river Jordan, when at that moment he was declared to be God’s Son. As he was the only mortal man to have received the Spirit not by measure he was God’s only begotten Son sent out into the world not being of the world.
He died.
He was raised given the Spirit for all eternity, a Son forevermore, and now a firstborn of many brethren, for we are joint heirs with him, being heirs of God’s Spirit for all eternity. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God, and we are promised to be conformed to the image of the Son. We will have the Spirit upon us leading us to walk in all of God’s ways, as it does Jesus. God had promised that He would be ALL in ALL, that all flesh would come to worship Him, that He did not make earth in vain but for it to be inhabited.
Such is the End declared from the beginning, a new heaven and earth with Jesus as firstborn overall creation, a last Adam made in the image of God, a Son of God according to the Spirit. All things were made by God ALONE by reason of and for him, without him nothing would have been made that was made, for he brings forth eternal life. He fulfills God’s purpose for why God created all things in the first place. We will see this Son of Man in the glory of the Father returning having the honor to give eternal life to his brethren, as he was indeed anointed with the oil of gladness above his fellows.
October 21, 2020 at 12:59 am#866988
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
TOTAL FAIL on your part.
You need to post the scriptures I gave and talk about them or you have zero credibility.
Once again you divert to yet another verse you misinterpret.

October 21, 2020 at 1:08 am#866989
Berean
Participant
YOU WOULD DO WELL TO CALM YOURSELF … I PROPOSE YOU TO GO REST A LITTLE. WHAT I TELL YOU IS THE TRUTH.
October 21, 2020 at 3:40 am#866990
GeneBalthrop
Participant
TO ALL……Go back and reread, no not read, but seriously study, what JODI has written, espically her post on 10/20/2020, # 866980,
That is the “APSOLUTE TRUTH “. study it, and you will reconize the “TRUTH”, if you truly have the “SPIRIT OF TRUTH ” in you. those who don’t are simply blinded by all the confusion in Christanity brought on by Satan and his servants .
Peace and love to you all and yours………….gene
October 21, 2020 at 3:44 am#866991
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Berean you would not know the truth if it bit you in the ass. Your so far out there , you don’t even know if your afoot or horseback, in my opinion , and you certanily are not alone here that’s for sure.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene
October 21, 2020 at 6:42 am#866992
Jodi
Participant
Thanks Gene,
As Proclaimer has made the point numerous times that we just argue that Jesus was a man and that’s it, the truth is there is much more that we have been showing through the scriptures we post.
There needs to be a discussion, and I did post this rather recently to Mike, around what is the END that we are given.
Likewise, people need to acknowledge that this End which is a New Beginning was declared by God from the beginning. Such is not an after thought, but it is a clear given truth that needs to be at the forefront of the mind when reading all of scripture.
When you see what the End is and know it was declared from the beginning, and you apply this clear given truth to all of scripture, there is not one scripture that teaches Jesus pre-existed. They all teach that God, who clearly states that He created all things by Himself, did so by reason of and for the Son of Man who would fulfill all of His will, fulfill that which was the VERY REASON AS TO WHY God created all things in the first place.
October 21, 2020 at 7:12 am#866993
Berean
Participant
Gene
You
“Berean you would not know the truth if it bit you in the ass. Your so far out there , you don’t even know if your afoot or horseback, in my opinion , and you certanily are not alone here that’s for sure.”
Me
Ah ah that’s all you can say … how sad
This proves that you are not from God but from the Devil
October 21, 2020 at 7:55 am#866994
Jodi
Participant
To All,
As said earlier,
Jesus who was the Son of Man exalted to God’s right hand, is God’s Son ACCORDING TO the Spirit by his resurrection from the dead, where he had received that Spirit when he rose from the dead ACCORDING TO A PROMISE.
People that is clear given truth, where it is then a lie to say that our lord Jesus Christ in heaven is God’s Son because he pre-existed as God’s firstborn before heaven and earth were created.
Psalm 89:24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I WILL make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
In the time that Chronicles and the Psalms were written, there is NO firstborn yet of God, there is no Son of God dwelling in God’s house yet, there is no son of David with an eternal throne yet, Such was ALL a promise of what WOULD BE.
Below Jesus is NOT identified as God’s Son according to you people’s doctrine that you preach, he is God’s Son directly according to prophecy, according to scripture that gave a PROMISE.
Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Jesus is God’s Son according to scripture, not according to doctrine made from misinterpretation of scriptures.
Jesus is God’s Son according to God’s goodness/mercy that He bestowed upon Jesus, giving him all the fruits of His Holy Spirit. Jesus is the son of David whom God BECAME a Father to ACCORDING TO A PROMISE.
Jesus had died, but God raised him from the dead, where on that day, David’s son was begotten of the Spirit for all eternity, made a firstborn over all of creation just as was PROMISED. God had promised that He would keep his goodness with him forever, never taking it away. Jesus received the Holy Spirit ACCORDING to a PROMISE, being begotten of the Spirit on that day he was raised from the dead.
This was all YHVH’s WORD from the beginning, all things that YHVH had created ALONE, BY HIMSELF, He did by reason of and for THIS firstborn, who would be a firstborn of many brethren, who was PROMISED to have first place overall. Nothing would have been made that was made without him, for through Him YHVH had declared from the beginning that ONE MAN would execute YHVH’s purpose for creating all things in the first place.
YHVH had promised eternal life before the world even began, IN that WORD was the ONE MAN who would bring forth that promise, so when all things were being made by YHVH ALONE they were being made by reason of (THROUGH) him.
October 21, 2020 at 8:00 am#866995
Jodi
Participant
Berean,
Get real, Gene has said plenty, given you scriptures like I have that you ignore and refuse to discuss, which goes to show you have zero credibility unto God’s word.
One must be able to discuss any and all of scripture and show how any passage fits perfectly with their understanding to other scriptures.
October 21, 2020 at 8:09 am#866996
Berean
Participant
Jodi
you loop with your earthly Christ
and you ignore the true Christ who comes from heaven (dwelling of God)
October 21, 2020 at 9:32 am#866998
Jodi
Participant
Berean,
Christ is NOT earthly! Your perception of my belief is false, and if you have read what I have posted you would know I would never say such a thing.
When Jesus was ANOINTED with the Spirit and SENT out into the world TO PREACH the word of God, he said that he was not of this world. Christ is not earthly, he is HEAVENLY, sent down from heaven, sent directly from God.
The image of my Christ is according to God’s EXACT WORDS, a man anointed with the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Reverence for YHVH, who was then sent out into the world not being of the world, not speaking of the earth earthly things, but being OF HEAVEN and speaking HEAVENLY things. The heavenly WORD that he spoke was that he would die but he would ascend to where he was before, and show many that God’s word from before the world was, of eternal life unto mankind, is true in him, so that people would put their faith in our One True God the Father YHVH, and desire YHVH’s Spirit just as Jesus received, the Spirit that makes a human a Son of God, a heavenly man.
October 21, 2020 at 10:49 am#867000
carmel
Participant
Hi Jodi,
YOU: Scripture does not teach that
Jesus went back to a former being, At ALL.
THE ABOVE ARE LIES!
NOW READ THE TRUTH:
John 6:62 If then you shall see
the Son of man ascend up where he was BEFORE?

John17:5 And now glorify thou me,
O Father, with thyself,
with the glory
WHICH I HAD
BEFORE the world was, with thee.
John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because you have loved me, and have believed that
I CAME OUT from God.
28 I CAME FORTH from the Father,
and am come INTO (not out into) the world:
AGAIN
I LEAVE the world, and
I GO TO THE FATHER.
keep silence Jodi or else
we read
more lies

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
October 21, 2020 at 11:44 am#867001
carmel
Participant
Hi Gene,
YOU: GENE: TO ALL……Go back and reread, no not read, but seriously study, what JODI has written, espically her post on 10/20/2020, # 866980,
ME Here it COMES Gene:
THE FATHER OF LIES!
Jodi:
To All,
The Word from the beginning,
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1ST. LIE: The Word from the beginning
was made
true in Jesus,
ME: TRUTH: John 1:14 And the Word was
MADE FLESH,
(JESUS IS THE WORD, ITSELF Jodi,)
Confirmed by Jesus himself in
John12:48 He that despiseth me, and receiveth not my words, hath
ONE (JESUS, THE SON OF MAN)
that judgeth him;
THE WORD (JESUS’SPIRIT)
that I have spoken,
the same shall judge him in the last day.
and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying:
This was he of whom I spoke:
He that shall come after me,
is preferred before me: because
HE WAS BEFORE ME.
PRE-EXISTED!
YOU: ….no not read, but seriously study,
YES Gene, I DID SERIOUSLY STUDY AND I DID ALSO
DISCOVERED:
ONE PURE LIE:
DOWN! AND
MORE TO GO
FROM YOUR god of lies.
Jodi
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
October 21, 2020 at 5:33 pm#867003
Proclaimer
Participant
God’s angels appear as men on earth and they are the Sons of God. Daniel 3 is not any sort of proof that Jesus pre-existed.
Angels are messengers. Jesus is a messenger among many other things. John the Baptist was a messenger too.
October 21, 2020 at 8:15 pm#867004
carmel
Participant
Hi Jodi,
YOU:God’s angels appear as men on earth and they are the Sons of God. Daniel 3
is not any sort of proof that Jesus pre-existed.
Jodi your PREACHING IS CRAMMED WITH
LIES! READ:

Galatians 4:14 You despised not, nor rejected:
but received me as
an angel of God,
even as Christ Jesus.
THE ANGEL OF THE LORD
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
October 21, 2020 at 8:48 pm#867005
Ed J
Participant
Edj…..Jodi and I, are not fence walkers, we both know exactly what we are saying and have produced countless scriptures over and over to back up exactly what we are saying.
Even demons believe
Bull. All you do is quote Jesus humanity which no one here disagrees with. But you do not accept the full counsel of scripture. You take a snapshot of him coming in the flesh and with human reasoning say that he was created with no prior history and is still a man (adam). You try to hide the fact that he was with God in the beginning. The eternal life with the Father who came from heaven, came in flesh, died, rose again, and is in the glory he had with the Father. Even demons were more truthful Gene.
Hi T8,
Well “Proclaimed”!
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THE ABOVE ARE LIES!

the Son of man ascend up where he was BEFORE?

O Father, with thyself,

WHICH I HAD

BEFORE the world was, with thee.

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because you have loved me, and have believed that

I CAME OUT from God.

28 I CAME FORTH from the Father,

and am come INTO (not out into) the world:

AGAIN

I LEAVE the world, and

I GO TO THE FATHER.

we read

more lies

THE FATHER OF LIES!

was made

true in Jesus,

ME: TRUTH: John 1:14 And the Word was

MADE FLESH,

(JESUS IS THE WORD, ITSELF Jodi,)

Confirmed by Jesus himself in

John12:48 He that despiseth me, and receiveth not my words, hath

ONE (JESUS, THE SON OF MAN)

that judgeth him;

THE WORD (JESUS’SPIRIT)

that I have spoken,

the same shall judge him in the last day.

is preferred before me: because

HE WAS BEFORE ME.

PRE-EXISTED!

Jodi

is not any sort of proof that Jesus pre-existed.

LIES! READ:

an angel of God,

even as Christ Jesus.

THE ANGEL OF THE LORD

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