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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 21,141 through 21,160 (of 25,932 total)
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  • October 17, 2020 at 8:52 am#866853
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer. …..What you are pointing out is wrong it alway was wrong and still is wrong. Yes he is “Called” the word of God. That is a sur-name or “title” ,given him because he does speek “God the Fathers words to us” not “his” words. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

    October 17, 2020 at 9:08 am#866854
    Berean
    Participant

     

    Gene

    You

    Proclaim… .. the “only” way that Jesus himself could be the “word” of God “himself” is if he was God himself. JESUS IS NOT “NAMED” the Word, the Scripture doesn’t say that, It says he is “called” the word of God, it doesn’t say that he “IS” the word of God.

    Me

    The fact that Jesus is called THE WORD OF GOD clearly shows us that he WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN AND THAT HE WAS GOD

    Amen

    October 17, 2020 at 9:14 am#866855
    Berean
    Participant

    JESUS IS NAMMED ” THE WORD,”

    IN JOHN 1:1 AND “THE WORD OF GOD”I INREVELATION 19:13

                   THIS THE TRUTH 

    THE ETERNAL AND INDESTRUCTIBL   TRUTH

    October 17, 2020 at 9:31 am#866856
    Berean
    Participant

     

    Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.(Hebrews 13:8)

     

    October 17, 2020 at 9:51 am#866857
    Ed J
    Participant

    It says he is “called” the word of God

    Where does it say that Gene?
    Because I never seen it ???

    EDJ…..REV 19:13, …..and he was clothed with a vesture, dipped in blood: and his name is ““CALLED” , “The word of God”.

    Hi Gene,

    That is talking about the HolySpirit, not Jesus.

    October 17, 2020 at 11:39 am#866858
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Now look up the words given there for “called”  it will tell you it is a “sur-name” ,  or Title,  like when Jesus said to Simon Bar-jona,  you shall be “called” Peter , that word means a Stone or Rock,  was Peter a stone or rock, no he was not , but that name was an “atribute” afforded him, because of some atribute he posessed, the same thing applied to James and John, he called them the “Son’s of Thunder”,  did that make them really sons of THUNDER, what ever that would be?, NO IT WOULD NOT.

    So he is Peter.

    Jesus is called the Word of God.

    So he is the Word of God.

    I have a name here called “Procalimer”. So I am Proclaimer.

    See how basic this reality is. Do not let puffed up wisdom blind you from what even a child can see.

    October 17, 2020 at 11:40 am#866859
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    YOU: Neither was he an anointed one yet either.

     

    Luke 1:15 For he shall be great before the Lord; and shall drink no wine nor strong drink: and

    he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost,

    even from his mother’s womb.

     

    John 1:27 The same is he that shall come after me,

    who is preferred before me:

    the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to loose. 

    John 1:30 This is he, of whom I said: After me there cometh a man,

    who is preferred before me:(BEFORE MY EXISTENCE)

    because he was before me.(BEFORE MY EXISTENCE)

     

    Matthew 3:14 But John stayed him, saying:

    I ought to be baptized by thee,

    and comest thou to me?

    Luke7:26 This is he of whom it is written:

    Behold I send MY ANGEL before THY FACE,(JOHN PRE-EXISTED)

    who shall prepare THY WAY before THEE.

    28For I say to you: Amongst those that are born of women,

    there is not a greater prophet

    than John the Baptist.

    But he that is the lesser in the kingdom of God,

    is greater than he.

    Jodi from the above scriptures, IT IS ASSERTED THAT

    JOHN IS THE PERSONAL ANGEL OF GOD (MICHAEL), THE GREATEST PROPHET, EXISTED AFTER JESUS, WAS CONCEIVED AND FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, NEVERTHELESS,

    JOHN WAS LESS THEN JESUS, and

    OUGHT TO BE BAPTIZED ALSO BY JESUS.

    THAT MEANS Jodi that WITHOUT THE LEAST DOUBT,

    IF JOHN PRE-EXISTED, AND HAVE ALL THOSE CREDENTIALS IS

    FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST ON HIS CONCEPTION IN HIS MOTHER’S WOMB AND STILL 

    LESS THEN JESUS,

    IT PROVES AND ASSERTS THAT 

    JESUS, 

    BOTH PRE-EXISTED AND 

    ALSO FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST,

    ON HIS CONCEPTION  IN HIS MOTHER’S WOMB.

    WHAT OCCURRED AT THE RIVER JORAN WAS ONLY

    A MANIFESTATION IN ISRAEL OF

    WHO JESUS WAS AND THAT JESUS WAS

    THE SON OF GOD.

    By which title it confirms that Jesus is

    THE GENUINE SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER, Hebrews1:3 and as much as the Father is the source of the Holy Ghost, likwise

    JESUS IS ALSO

    THE ABODE OF THE HOLY GHOST

    Confirmed in

    Isaiah 42:1 BEHOLD my servant, I will uphold him: my elect,

    MY SOUL(THE HOLY GHOST)

      delighteth in him:(JESUS)

    I have given (PRE-EXISTED)

    my spirit upon him,( BEFORE THE WORLD WAS)

    he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

    October 17, 2020 at 8:11 pm#866862
    Berean
    Participant

    GOD GAVE HIS OWN SON NOT SIMPLY À SON LIKE GENE SAY BELOW:

    God, who at Sunday times and in different manners spake in times past unto the fathers by (through)  the prophets, has in theses last days spoken unto us by (through) a Son, who he appointed heir of all things,  by (for the purpose of) whom also he (God) made the worlds;

     

    Even if there is no article Before the word “son” in this passage
    We know this is God’s own Son (Romaind 8: 3; John3:16)

    October 18, 2020 at 3:03 am#866863
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..”call no man on earth your Father,  for one is your Father who is in heaven”.  When are you people going START to truly believe What Jesus said? 

    WHY do you continue to do the work of Satan, by never ceasing to make Jesus out to be  different then his human brothers and sisters. Preaching Satan’s , “doctrines of Seperation”?  

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

    October 18, 2020 at 3:41 am#866864
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer……yea, and Clark Kent , was a real “superman” to, because they “called” him that?,  and an airplane is a “real” bird , because they call it that, and a ship is a women because they “call” it a she.  Sur-names are given to many things and people also, that are not “actually” it , but invoke a “characteristic” or “atribute” of it.  Jesus spoke every thing God the Father told him to tell us, so he is “sur-named, or “called” the word of God,  but none of that ever “actually” made he himself God the Fathers word himself?  If you truly believed What Jesus himself said as you would like us to believe you do, you would understand that. IMO

    Jesus is called the word of God because he speaks God the Fathers words, to us, NOT,  BECAUSE HE IS “ACTUALLY” THOSE WORDS HIMSELF.

    GET IT?

    You give yourself a title as the “Proclaimer”,   right, so how does that make you “any” different then anyone else here,  are you still 100% a flesh and blood human, tell us in what way are you any different then the rest of humanity?  To me you are nothing  more then another human being, even though you afforded yourself the “title” as the “proclainer”,  what happened to T8, did he die?

    The king and Queen of England, are they not the exact same as the rest of humanity?, does the “title” actually make them no longer human beings.  This is what you false teachers have Done with Jesus, because you want to do exactly what Satan wants , make Jesus appear “completely” different then his brothers and sister,  so you preach your false teaching . 2THS2,  it’s all there for them who have eyes to see?  

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

    October 18, 2020 at 4:47 am#866865
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    You are sinking deeper and deeper into spiritual darkness.

    JESUS IS ACCORDING TO ROMANS 8: 3 THE OWN SON OF GOD, THIS MEANS THAT HE IS OF THE SAME NATURE AS HIS FATHER.
    AND ONLY HIM CAN BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD.
    A SINGLE MAN COULD NOT BE BECAUSE ALL MEN BORN ON THIS EARTH ARE BORN WITHOUT THE GLORY OF GOD.

    Romans 3:23.  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    October 18, 2020 at 5:31 am#866866
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Gene:  Mike…..subject matter did change   it started out speaking about God ‘s word, comming to fulfillment,  the it goes from God to the “man” Jesus’ that is what you people are failing to see.

    I fail to see it because it’s simply not there, Gene.  Starting in 1:14, the subject about whom John is writing is “the Word”.  He does not change the subject he’s writing about until verse 18.  But I laid it out for you in my post, step by step.  Show me where John stopped talking about “the Word” and began talking about a different subject.

    October 18, 2020 at 5:40 am#866867
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer:  I realise you will not an answer this directly because both of you are not honest people. Can you see the deceit in your heart now? You know your true answer means you lose the debate, so you prefer to ignore the question. Shame on you guys. God can see the deceit. He is not blind.

    This is unacceptable rhetoric for any civilized debate between decent adults – let alone a “Christian” debate.  People who have a different interpretation/understanding of something are not necessarily “not honest people”.  I don’t consider Jodi, Gene, Ed, Carmel, Berean or anyone else here “not honest people” – even though I have many disagreements of interpretation with every one of them.  And any man who deems himself in such high regard as to know the heart of another man needs to take himself down a notch or two.

    October 18, 2020 at 5:42 am#866868
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..Jesus is the “only”, “begotten son”,  (from mankind), of God,  So far,  he is the “firstborn” of “MANY “, BRETHERN”. When will you ever come to see that. It does not say the only one to ever be ,  a Son of God, as you people try to make it out to be. 

    Brean what you people do it get about 10%, of what is written while ignoring the other 90% of scriptures, and even the 10% you have you add to what is actually being said.

    Before you start telling people about their spirituality,  you need to consider your own,  for a change.  “why beholdest  the mote in they brothers eye,  and not see the beam in your own eye”, first get t h e beam out of your eye , then you can see clearly to remove the mote c in thy brothers eye”. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene

     

    October 18, 2020 at 6:05 am#866869
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Ed: Hi Mike,

    Are you going to ask another question or give a speech?

    What?  I’m waiting for you to show me where John switched subjects between verse 14 and verse 18.  I laid it out for you sentence by sentence.  When did John stop talking about “the Word” and begin talking about a different subject?

    Ed:  “The Lord gave “The Word”: great was the company of those that published it.” (Psalms 68:11)

    We know words were given, and they are spirit according to John 6:63. Here’s my next question:

    “The Word” according to Psalm 68:11 is “The Bible” – do you agree?

    “Yes” or “no” ?

    No.

    2 Samuel 7: 4-5

    But that night the word of Jehovah came to Nathan, saying:  “Go and tell my servant David, ‘This is what the Jehovah says: Are you the one to build me a house to dwell in?” 

    In your understanding (where every instance of “word” means “Bible”), the above basically has “the Bible” saying to Nathan, “This is what Jehovah says…”

    Like I said, assuming that every instance of “word” in the scriptures refers to the same thing is not only irrational, but easily refuted by the scriptures themselves.  Eddy, “the Bible” doesn’t ride a white horse and where a robe.  Please go back to the John 1 example, and show me where John changes subjects between vs 14 and vs 18.  Thanks.

    October 18, 2020 at 6:15 am#866870
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike….I completely agree with your last post to Proclaimer.  But now back to your post to me,  your are right the subject matter did not change until version 18,  but verse is still talking about God and his word, not God and  Jesus being his word.

    Mike several reasons,  one of the most obvious,  a word , any word, could never be a “being” ever.  It says in the beginning, the beginning of what?  One can only assume JOHN was speaking of GENESIS 1:1-14,  the beginning of this creation on this earth, seening he could not recall any other beginning,  given in scriptures.  Now if you Go to Genesis 1:1-14 , what do you find? , two things  are said over and over, what are they?   They are  “God and God “said” ,  so in the beginning  was God and His words.  God is made up of him,  and his words express him,  just as you are made up of you and your words express you, There is no difference. 

    If John was meaning Jesus was the word of God there,   he would have clearly said it .  It would have read like this , in the beginning was the word who was  Jesus, and Jesus was with God and Jesus was God. Do you really think John would not have made this point apsolutely clear, in that sentences in John 1:1 if that is what he meant? 

    So you see the subject matter did not change untill 18, because he was talking about God the Father, who created everything in existence.

    We can back this up with many other scriptures,  example,

    Isa 42:5, 45:8, 45:12, 45: 18, and hundreds more show God himself , created everything that exists and he even said he did it by “himself and “alone”.

    Mike you have no scripture that says Jesus was there at anytime of creation at all.  If it exists please post it.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    October 18, 2020 at 6:30 am#866871
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: Jodi,

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    Another hard to deny scriptural proof.  Of course the proper English translation is, “before Abraham was, I was“, or “before Abraham existed, I existed“.  The “I am” translation comes from English translators not properly rendering the Greek statement to the literal English equivalent.  For example…

    John 14:9

    Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?

    This is also written in the Greek present tense (“even after I am among you such a long time“), but that doesn’t make sense in English.  The Greek present tense often corresponds directly with the English present tense, but some phrases that would be rendered in the past tense in English are in the present tense in Greek.  Those are called “historical presents”, and are usually translated as past tense in English – like John 14:9 above.  The reason most translations don’t render John 8:58 as “before Abraham was, I was” is that those translations are produced by Trinitarian scholars, and those scholars believe the name of God (YHVH) literally means “I AM”.  Even though that hasn’t ever been confirmed (and can’t be), they see this as a way to make Jesus claim he is “I AM” – apparently oblivious of the fact that for Jesus to be claiming such a thing, he would have said, “before Abraham was, I was I AM“.  Just saying the phrase “I AM” – which is the most used pronoun/verb phrase in any language, isn’t a claim to BEING somebody named “I AM”.  Ironically, the majority of those translation that have “I am” in John 8:58, render John 14:9 correctly as “I have been“. 🤔

    Anyway, literary lesson aside, you make an excellent point that Jesus did indeed CLEARLY tell the Jews that he had existed before Abraham was even a gleam in his daddy’s eye. 😉

    October 18, 2020 at 6:34 am#866872
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Proclaimer:  But you need honest people in the process to make that happen.

    Unfortunately there are people here who are not honest.

    They cannot answer a simple yes or no.

    Thus, their answers must be coming from the Evil One.

    Please stop these personal attacks.

    October 18, 2020 at 6:45 am#866873
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Jodi: That’s just it though, he doesn’t exist as a spirit entity in heaven Mike, he sits at YHVH’s right hand as a Son of Man, and he is returning to earth as a Son of Man, and when he returns to earth he is going to sit on his father David’s throne ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, where he is a Son of God according to the Spirit, which makes him a spiritual human being, The Spirit bears witness to his spirit that he is a Son of God. Your are “spiritual” when you walk in all of God’s ways.  

    Flesh cannot enter nor inherit the Kingdom of God.  Jesus’ body was transformed into the glorious body he has now… the kind of body Paul yearned for:

    Philippians 3:21

    who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

    1 Corinthians 15:49
    And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.

    Jodi, you didn’t address my post on “the light”.  You haven’t addressed my more recent post on “the Word”.  In John 1:14, John begins writing about a subject he calls “the Word”.  I contend that John doesn’t change subjects until vs 18.  What say you?  Can you show me where John changes the subject he’s writing about between vs 14 and vs 18?

     

    October 18, 2020 at 6:52 am#866874
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    What I am telling you about Jesus is simply the truth.
    You preach a CHRIST OUTSIDE THE LAW.

    YOU DON’T REALIZE THAT A SINGLE MAN WHEN HE COMES TO THE WORLD IS DEPRIVED OF GOD’S GLORY AND CANNOT (IS DISQUALIFIED) TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. EVERY MAN WHO IS BORN IN THIS WORLD NEEDS A SAVIOR .JESUS ​​WAS NOT IN THIS CASE SINCE HE WAS / AND STILL IS THE OWN DIVINE SON OF GOD. HE IS NOT OF THIS EARTH.
    Speaking of Jesus, John the baptist said:
    He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
    [32] And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
    [33] He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
    [34] For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
    [35] The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
    [36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

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