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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • October 13, 2020 at 11:35 pm#866783
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The point of a topic here is to uncover the truth.

    But you need honest people in the process to make that happen.

    Unfortunately there are people here who are not honest.

    They cannot answer a simple yes or no.

    Thus, their answers must be coming from the Evil One.

    But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’ and your ‘No’ be ‘No. … Whatever is more than these is of the evil one.

    They will give every excuse under the sun and even write off this verse as not being relevant.

    But know this. No lie is of God. Truth is an attribute of God and God’s children. And the Son of God is the truth.

    Dishonest people are not worthy to be given truth though.  It is for the innocent and those who truly seek.

    But some people only seek that which makes them look good and right in their own eyes.

    God sends a strong delusion to some people.

    October 14, 2020 at 2:48 am#866784
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj….let me break it down for you OK,

    1 Peter 1:10 -11…….Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied  of the grace that should come unto you: 11,  Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was “in” them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and unto the glory, that should follow.

    1…..the Spirit of Christ ?, “that was the “anointing” Holy Spirit of God , that was “in” them, it was testifying to them beforehand about the sufferings of “THE ANOINTED ONE” the man Jesus,  it was the exact same Holy Spirit Jesus was “Anointed” with at the Jordan river. that was testifying to them (the prophets), beforehand.  

    Your mixing up the words rendered as “Christ”,  in some cases it is meaning  the “the Anointing Spirit of God itself” and in others places it is meaning  the “ANOINTED” ones of GOD, or , the person who is the Anointed one.   

    For instance nearly every time scriptures say Jesus Christ,  it is meaning the man  Jesus who is  “the anointed one”,  it is not saying Jesus himself is the anointing Spirit,  it is saying,  he is the one “ANOINTED” with the Spirit.  

    It unfortunate that the translators left out the words “the anointed one”,  because it can give a false impression that Jesus himself is the anointing he was anointed with. But if you will check out the original Greek translations you will see that the original text nearly  always says Jesus  “the anointed on”,  not just Jesus Christ as our text shows.  Check it out for yourself and you will see what I mean.

    Again the term “CHRIST” IN SCRIPTURES can be taken two ways, one as the person “anointed”  or,  in other cases,  as the Anointing Spirit itself, depending on the context of the verse  it is used in. 

    Hope that helped Edj.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………….gene

     

    October 14, 2020 at 3:12 am#866785
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel….I AM NOT GOD,  nor is Jesus the one you have turned into your God.  God has the power to make every word he speaks come ture, I certanly do not have that power, no do , you either.  So the last post of your is pure foolishness. IMO.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

    October 14, 2020 at 3:34 am#866786
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer,  I see your still hung up on the word, “Before”,  used there by Jesus. Why not spend some of your time and give it and “honest” research for a change, instead of taking the side of those blind,  false accusing people,  Jesus was talking to. 

    Those Jew always used Abraham to justify there “position”  with God, why do you think John the Baptist said to them,  “God could raise up those stones unto Abraham if he wanted to.”  Jesus  was simply telling them he was “more important” or “before”  Abraham,  in importance  to them.  I realize you can’t understand that, because of your own blindness, that you are accusing others of here, but none the less the truth shall prevail in the end. 

    Why can’t you understand what Jesus was actually meaning,  If you were of the truth you could easely understand it,  So instead of going around accusing others of being dishonest and disenginuous,  why not take a good look at yourself for a change?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

    October 14, 2020 at 5:32 am#866787
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all….The man Jesus said , “every word that proceeds out of the mouth of GOD, that shall a man  live by”.  Jesus was a Son of Man. 

    The man Jesus said to us all, that those words he spoke were,  “not” his own words, saying,  “the words I am telling you are “NOT” “MY”  words, but the words of him who sent me”. Does anyone here have any trouble with “believing” those words of Jesus?

    Peace and love to you all and yours. ……….gene

     

    October 14, 2020 at 7:39 am#866788
    Berean
    Participant

    COLOSSIANS 2:9

    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    [9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

    GODHEAD = DIVINITY

    JESUS IS NOT JUST A MAN.

    October 14, 2020 at 8:45 am#866789
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Proclaimer, I see your still hung up on the word, “Before”…

    I see you are still avoiding simple yes or no questions regarding what you believe. If you avoid scrutiny and do not seek truth that is outside of yourself, you will be deceived. It is that simple. And it’s your life. Your choice. Your responsibility.

    October 14, 2020 at 10:10 am#866790
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU:

    Likewise, there is no amount of scriptures you can post saying Jesus existed as a human that will ever change the scriptural fact that he first existed (and does again) as a spirit entity in heaven alongside his and our God, YHVH.

    ME:

    That’s just it though, he doesn’t exist as a spirit entity in heaven Mike, he sits at YHVH’s right hand as a Son of Man, and he is returning to earth as a Son of Man, and when he returns to earth he is going to sit on his father David’s throne ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, where he is a Son of God according to the Spirit, which makes him a spiritual human being, The Spirit bears witness to his spirit that he is a Son of God. Your are “spiritual” when you walk in all of God’s ways.  

    Likewise, all of this was God’s WORD from the beginning, 

    This Son of Man did not have his flesh decay, it received life again, with glory, power, made incorruptible, God’s WORD of eternal life before the world began.  

    The glory of this Son of Man having been exalted to sit at YHVH’s right hand was YHVH’s WORD declared from the beginning!

    This Son of Man who returns in his own glory and the Father’s glory was YHVH’s WORD declared from the beginning!

     

    October 14, 2020 at 10:27 am#866791
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU; God has the power to make every word he speaks come ture,

    100% TRUTH:

    NOW ANSWER Gene, IF YOU ARE HONEST  AND BELIEVE IN A TRUE GOD OF WHICH I DOUBT,

    with every respect to your carnal minded mentality.

    WHAT DOES GOD MAKE USE OF APART HIS POWER,

    TO MAKE HIS WORD TO COME TRUE?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    October 14, 2020 at 10:49 am#866792
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Proclaimer,

    ME:  I don’t read the verse and see it as you do, so your question doesn’t work.

    YOU:
    Its not a verse Jodi but purely a statement worded by me.

    Do you believe that statement?

    Yes, No, I don’t know. Here it is again.

    The messiah’s name is Jesus and also The Word of God. He is Jesus but he is not The Word of God.

    Do not let deceit in your heart win again. Be honest and let light into the darkness where deceit lies.

    Is the statement true or false?

    ME: 

    You are asking me to answer a question based from a STATEMENT you made just prior to the question, a statement that I believe is false.

    Here is the thing though, I can answer your question, if it just stands alone. I can answer it if I disregard the statement given just prior.

    The question standing alone, 

    He is Jesus but he is not The Word of God?

    Answer, FALSE

    The Messiah is Jesus, for Jesus was anointed at the river Jordan and then was sent out into the world.

    The Messiah is the Word of God, as the Word of God was a promise for a messiah to one day come.

    The Word of God of a Messiah, one anointed with the Spirit promised to come into the world, was made true in the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth.

     

    October 14, 2020 at 12:02 pm#866793
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Gene,
     
    If you believe that, then you need to smudge this verse out of your bible…
     
    “Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
    when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.” (1 Peter 1:11)
     
    The bread from heaven (Christ) being born in the house of bread (Bethlehem)
    This is talking about “The spirit of Christ” that Jesus was born with…
     
    “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of
    Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
    whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)
     
    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    Edj….let me break it down for you OK,

    1…..the Spirit of Christ ?, “that was the “anointing” Holy Spirit of God

    Hi Gene,

    There’s only one problem it doesn’t say that. But here is what “The Bible” does say…

    “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” (Prov 30:6)

    October 14, 2020 at 12:07 pm#866794
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Proclaimer,

    You: “Do not let deceit in your heart win again. Be honest and let light into the darkness where deceit lies.”

    ME: This is total slander, care to give me an example as to when you knew that I had deceit in my heart and it won?

    October 14, 2020 at 12:11 pm#866795
    Ed J
    Participant

    Gene,

    The bible clearly says Christ was born in Bethlehem. But
    you instead believe “Christ” was begotten at the Jordan river.
    Satan has deceived ‘your mind’ with the doctrine of separation!

    October 14, 2020 at 12:39 pm#866796
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: 1…..the Spirit of Christ ?,

    “that was the “anointing” Holy Spirit of God ,

    that was “in” them, it was testifying to them beforehand about the sufferings of “THE ANOINTED ONE” the man Jesus,

    it was the exact same Holy Spirit Jesus was “Anointed” with at the Jordan river.

    that was testifying to them (the prophets), beforehand.

     

    Read Hereunder Gene,now

     

    Romans 8:9But you are not in the flesh,

    but in the spirit, (OF CHRIST)

    if so be that the Spirit of God (“THE WORD”the seed of God,)  DWELLS in you.(Luke 8:11-15)

    CONFIRMED HEREUNDER:

    Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ,(IN HIM through “THE WORD”)

    he is none of his. (CHRIST/GODMAN on earth)

    10And if Christ be in you,

    the body indeed is dead, because of sin;

    but the spirit liveth, because of justification.

     

    ME: WE SINNERS, ARE JUSTIFIED PURE IN JESUS THE SON OF MAN,

    FIRST ON HIS BAPTISM, (for our souls) THEN ON HIS RESURRECTION.(for our flesh)

    NOW JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, THE HUMAN NATURE, (the flesh) GLORIFIED ON HIS DEATH AND BECAME 

    ONE SUBSTANCE IN THE HOLY GHOST (the soul) JESUS’ DIVINE NATURE, John13:31-32

    THUS THEY ARE NOT TWO ANYMORE BUT

    TWO IN ONE FLESH IN

    JESUS CHRIST

    Godman on earth

    THE HOLY SPIRIT AT THE JORDAN WAS OF THE FATHER.

    NOW THE HOLY SPIRIT LEFT JESUS JUST BEFORE HIS DEATH.

    THE SAME HOLY SPIRIT OF THE FATHER WAS SENT BY JESUS

    IN THE GLORY AND POWER OF JESUS

    GODMAN ON EARTH

    ON PENTECOST,

    1John5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come:

    and he hath given us understanding

    that we may know the true God,

    and maybe in his true Son.

    This is the true God and life eternal.

    JESUS CHRIST

    OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER

    Ephesians 4:1I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, (JESUS CHRIST) beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called, 2With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. 3Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5One Lord, (JESUS CHRIST) one faith, one baptism.

    6One God and Father of all,(BOTH FLESH AND SOUL) who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

    WE ARE HIS CHILDREN John17:2,  Isaiah 9:6

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    October 14, 2020 at 12:50 pm#866797
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU:

    Jodi

    If Jesus were only a man, he could not judge the good and the bad …
    think a little
    Jesus is called THE WORD and he is God made flesh.
    If you don’t believe this part of the truth, you cannot understand the rest and you will continue to preach an outlaw Christ ….

    ME: 

    You said,  “If Jesus were only a man, he could not judge the good and the bad”

    such is a false doctrine that comes out from misinterpreting scriptures, and you misinterpret those scriptures because you ignore and don’t apply other passages to them so that they can be properly understood.

    1. There is NO declaration in the below passages that God became flesh.
    2.  What you are directly told is that there is a stem of Jesse, whom the LORD rests His Spirit upon and by that Spirit upon him, he brings forth justice. 
    3. There is NO declaration in the below passages that God becomes flesh to judge the world.
    4. What you are directly told is that God is going to judge the world by a man whom God ordained. 
    5. What you are directly told is that a man was called to righteousness having God direct all his ways and by such He delivers captives.  

    Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and UNDERSTANDING, the Spirit of COUNSEL and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

    3 And shall MAKE him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

    4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    Isaiah 42:1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations. …6 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, 7 to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness. 8 “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols. 

    Isaiah 45:6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting people may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other. 7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. ..13 I will raise him up in my righteousness: I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free,

    Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

    It is not that God became flesh for to save us and to judge us.

    It is that God anointed a man with His Spirit without measure to save us and to judge us. 

    It is not God is made into a man so we could be saved and be properly judged.

    A MAN is MADE into a savior and a judge by our One True God the Father YHVH, and such is literally YHVH’s WORD that He had spoken from the beginning, where that word becomes true in the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth. 

    October 14, 2020 at 1:21 pm#866798
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    You: “Do not let deceit in your heart win again. Be honest and let light into the darkness where deceit lies.”

    ME: This is total slander, care to give me an example as to when you knew that I had deceit in my heart and it won?

    Not my measure of judgement. Don’t shoot the messenger.

    But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’ and your ‘No’ be ‘No. ’Whatever is more than these is of the evil one.

    An honest person can easily answer a yes no question.

    October 14, 2020 at 2:28 pm#866799
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Ed J,

    YOU: The bible clearly says Christ was born in Bethlehem.

    ME: The bible also clearly says that Jesus was “BORN KING of the Jews”. 

    But he WAS NOT a KING with a kingdom, when he was born. 

    Likewise, he was not a savior when he was born, and it’s very ridiculous to think the baby Jesus was a lord over anyone when he was born, neither was he an anointed one yet either.

    Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and PROPHESIED, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

    Ed J, 

    So I am to believe that Zacharias was giving a prophecy soon to be fulfilled by Jesus’ birth?

    and

    I am to believe that raising up a horn of salvation in the house of David, which God spake since the world began, equates to God sending down a pre-existing anointed savior to become flesh?

    Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his PROMISE raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

    Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God ANOINTED Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

    Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

    Ed J,

    You are telling me that I am to believe that the savior had already come, but yet passages say he didn’t come until after John preached the baptism of repentance?

    So it’s okay to believe you over direct scripture?

    So Jesus being said to be “born king of the Jews”, it’s okay to apply that as him being the person of prophecy, but when he is said to be born a savior who is Christ the lord, it’s impossible to apply prophecy in “this case”, even though direct scripture supports that it most certainly was being applied as prophecy?

    You are told directly when Jesus was made the anointed one and then sent out into the world, but I guess I am suppose to believe you over scripture, nope, I don’t think so!

    October 14, 2020 at 4:43 pm#866800
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi…..They can only take one  scripture or part of a scripture and make their own blind sense of it,  No matter how many other scriptures we quote that shows them their errors,  they are simply unable to put them together.   If they were of the truth they would have no problem understanding exactly what we are telling them.  This whole thing here is an exercise of futality. IMO

    “unless the LORD is the builder of the house the weary builders toil in vain”,  “unless the LORD’S the city’s shield the guards maintain a useless watch’. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

    October 14, 2020 at 5:22 pm#866801
    Jodi
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    You: “Do not let deceit in your heart win again. Be honest and let light into the darkness where deceit lies.”

    ME: This is total slander, care to give me an example as to when you knew that I had deceit in my heart and it won?

    YOU: Not my measure of judgement. Don’t shoot the messenger.

    But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’ and your ‘No’ be ‘No. ’Whatever is more than these is of the evil one.

    An honest person can easily answer a yes no question.

    ME: How exactly is it not your measure of judgment?.. you are applying the words directly to me.

    “Don’t shoot the messenger huh”, so who gave you that message and told you to post it directly to me? 

     

    October 14, 2020 at 5:24 pm#866802
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    It’s just another day on the forum! We’ll stay strong and just keep plugging on I suppose!

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