Home Questions & Answers Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth? Page 1,041

Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

, , Questions & Answers, , , , , 25,933
Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 20,801 through 20,820 (of 25,934 total)
123…1,0401,0411,042…1,2951,2961,297
  • Author
    Posts
  • September 27, 2020 at 1:49 am#866413
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..Please show me where what i have said prevents Jesus from being the “head”  of the church , or  before all thing  except God the  Father.  Nothing I or Jodi have said changes that Berean nor do we imply it either. Jesus is the firstborn from mankind to be raised from the dead, and recieve eternal life, and he certanily is the head of us all.  

    If you think what I or Jodi are saying about Jesus’ humanity,  takes that position  away from Jesus, you are “greatly” mistaken. We know full well Jesus is the head of all thing in the family of God our Father.  But we also know he is “not” our  God, nor are we called to worship him as our God,  as you people do and preach,  that’s the issue here Berean, not what you mentioned in your last post. 

    The only ones preaching a “false Jesus” here, are those who preach and worship Jesus as their  God, and portray him as  a preexisting being of somekind,  that created every thing that exists.  Those are the ones preaching a false Jesus here and nearly every where in Chretsendom today. And have for the past 2000 years, that “iniquity”, has been preached by the “APOSTATE” (fallen) ,  CHURCHES. That teaching of Jesus being a GOD,   Jesus by his own mouth will destory at his return, just as 2ths2, shows , for those who have eyes to see.  

    Didn’t Jesus tell us all that the Great deception that would come would be “about him” ?,  that deception has been here for nearly 2000 years , it was starting to “infect”  the true church at the very time of the original Apostles.  Berean what Jesus said was and is true today, “wide is the way that leads to destruction, and “MANY” go in threat thereof”,  but narrow is the way that leads to life and “FEW” there be that find it” . So,  Ask YOURSELF are you with the “MANY” or the “FEW”?   Have you bought into Satan’s  big “LIE” about Jesus being a God, and do you preach and worship him as such?  not much time is left Berean,  may God, “the “only” true God”,  help you to see and understand this. 

    Peace and love to you and yours…….gene

    September 27, 2020 at 3:56 am#866414
    Berean
    Participant

    “Berean…..Please show me where what i have said prevents Jesus from being the “head”  of the church , or  before all thing  except God the  Father.  “

    …….

    Gene

    Bible say

    he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    [18] And he is the head of the body, the church:

    he(JESUS) is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    [18] And he(JESUS) is the head of the body, the church:

     

     

    September 27, 2020 at 4:28 am#866415
    Berean
    Participant

    Since Jesus is before all things, that makes him not a creature. okay
    And more than that the Bible tells us:
    “by him all things consist.”

    consist …

    sunistaw
    sunistao
    soon-is-tah’-o,

    sunistano soon-is-tan’-o, or sunistemi soon-is’-tay-mee from sun – sun 4862 and isthmi – histemi 2476 (including its collateral forms); to set together, i.e. (by implication) to introduce (favorably), or (figuratively) to exhibit; intransitively, to stand near, or (figuratively) to constitute: – approve, commend, consist, make, stand (with).

    2 Peter 3:5

    5

    lanqanei gar autouV touto qelontaV oti ouranoi hsan ekpalai kai gh ex udatoV kai di udatoV sunestwsa tw tou qeou logw
    3: 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

    was formed
    συνεστῶσα (synestōsa)
    Verb – Perfect Participle Active – Nominative Feminine Singular
    Strong’s Greek 4921: To place together, commend, prove, exhibit; instrans: I stand with; To be composed of, cohere.

    September 27, 2020 at 8:05 am#866416
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..All that stuff has you mixed up brother.  THAT IS WHY I ALWAYS KEEP BRINGING YOU BACK TO WHAT JESUS HIMSELF “CLEARLY” SAID.   “this is eternal life , that they (you BEREAN) MIGHT KNOW “YOU”,  the “ONLY” TRUE God”.  There is only “ONE” TRUE GOD”., and that “ONE” “TRUE GOD”, is NOT JESUS. Why can’t you simply admit that Berean? 

    Berean you seen to have never got past that point yet. Until you do speaking to you is futile.

    Peace and love to you and yours………gene

     

    September 27, 2020 at 8:14 am#866417
    Berean
    Participant

    You run away from the truth
    You don’t answer the verses I give you
    it is written that Jesus is BEFORE ALL THINGS ….
    WHAT ARE YOU SAYING. YOU OF THIS VERSE ???

    September 27, 2020 at 8:33 am#866418
    Berean
    Participant

    A simple man cannot be the savior of the world and be the judge of those who will or will not go to heaven.
    GOD IS WISE AND HE GIVEN HIS OWN BEGOTTEN SON TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD

    The Eternal Father, the unchangeable One, gave His only begotten Son, tore from His bosom Him who was made in the express image of His person, and sent Him down to earth to reveal how greatly He loved mankind. ” R&H, July 9, 1895.

    September 27, 2020 at 8:35 am#866419
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi guys.

    If you select some text and hit the quote button in the toolbar it looks like this now.

    Here is a quote

    You may need to reload the page to see it as you might have the old style sheet cached.

    September 27, 2020 at 8:50 am#866421
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Aristides (ca. 125 A.D)

    Now the Christians trace their origin from the Lord Jesus Christ. And He is acknowledged by the Holy Spirit to be the son of the Most High God, who came down from heaven for the salvation of men.(Apology 15)

    Justin Martyr (ca. 150 A.D)

    For not only among the Greeks did the Word prevail to condemn these things through Socrates, but also among the barbarians were they condemned by the Word Himself, who took shape, and became man, and was called Jesus Christ, and in obedience to him, we not only deny that those who did such things as these are gods, but assert that they are wicked and ungodly demons, whose actions will not bear comparison with those even of men desirous of virtue. (5)…

    And when we say also that the Word, who is the firstborn of God, was brought forth without sexual union, and that he, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven… (21).

    Jesus Christ is the only proper Son who has been begotten by God, being His Word and first-begotten. (23)…

    For next to God, we worship and love the Word who is out of the unbegotten and ineffable God, since also He became man for our sakes, that, becoming a partaker of our sufferings, He might also bring us healing. (13).

    And God, the Father of the cosmos, who is the perfect intelligence, the truth. And the Word, being His Son, came to us, having put on flesh, revealing both himself and the Father, giving to us in himself resurrection from the dead, and eternal life afterwards. And this is Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord. (On the Resurrection, 1).

    September 27, 2020 at 8:55 am#866422
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Tatian (165 A.D)

    God was in the beginning, but the beginning, we have been taught, is the power of the Word. For the Lord of the universe, who is Himself the necessary basis of all being, inasmuch as no creature was yet in existence, was alone, but inasmuch as He was all powerful, Himself the necessary ground of things visible and invisible, with Him were all things; with Him, by Word-power, the Word himself also, who was in Him, subsists. And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world (cf. Rev. 3:14). But He came into being by participation, not by cutting off, for what is cut off is separated from the original substance, but that which comes by participation, making its choice of function, does not render him deficient from whom it is taken. For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him. 

     

    September 27, 2020 at 11:16 am#866423
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Gene (2020 AD)

    A word can not be applied to the person “quoting” them , they can only be applied to the one who gave them, Jesus gave us God the Fathers words, they were not “his” words, So how could Jesus actually be GOD THE FATHERS “WORDS” HIMSELF.

    September 27, 2020 at 11:19 am#866424
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Berean…..All that stuff has you mixed up brother.  THAT IS WHY I ALWAYS KEEP BRINGING YOU BACK TO WHAT JESUS HIMSELF “CLEARLY” SAID.   “this is eternal life , that they (you BEREAN) MIGHT KNOW “YOU”,  the “ONLY” TRUE God”.  There is only “ONE” TRUE GOD”., and that “ONE” “TRUE GOD”, is NOT JESUS. Why can’t you simply admit that Berean?

    You do err in your conclusions Gene. Up to God to judge whether this is a false witness or simply a continuous lack of understanding from your part. I will try and make it simple for you Gene.

    He is the expressed image of God. Thus, while God is true, so it is that Jesus is called The Truth. God has the Word within himself as an attribute of him, but he has expressed or begotten from himself (his own nature) so that the Word was WITH God. He was with him from the beginning, even before the cosmos. As already admitted by your camp, Jesus Christ has a name, “The Word of God”, thus that is who he is just as his name is Jesus Christ and that too is who he is.

    As a matter of fact, he is the full expression of God. While the Church will reflect Christ, Jesus Christ is the full expression of God. Yes, that doesn’t make him God, it makes him OF God. And yes, we already agree that he became a man. So it seems Gene, that you have no answer left to defend your teaching apart from levelling accusations at us that miss the mark. And if you had to sum up missing the mark in one word, what would that be?

    September 28, 2020 at 2:32 am#866429
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer,  you quote pagan writers, who taught the false teaching that Jesus “himself” is words of God”,  and dance all around to avoid this simple but clear words of Jesus himself,  “the words I am telling you are “NOT” “MY”,  words,  but the words of him who sent me.”  why not address that issue for a change instead of constantly skirting around it, why can’t you people address it?  Why treat it as if it were not even in your bibles, as you people treat so many others scriptures also.  How can you even expect to get the truth ignoring so many scriptures. 

    Jesus is “not” God’s word, no more then you or I would be his word even if we “quote” them to someone.  Proclaimer the bottom line is this, you and others here do not see the “real” Jesus,  a 100% true human from start to finish, who God the Father gave great honour too, because of his obediance and faith even to his own death,  he obeyed,  his “God”, and our God, his father,  and our Father”,  you either believe that or not, Proclaimer that’s your choice based on what is influencing you the most,  either the truth or a LIE,  taught by Satan and his “many” many, modern day servants.

    I personally don’t care what other so-called,  “church father’s ” say,  espically those  who changed the word of God, under the  influences of Plato, Socrates, and Greek false God teachings, where the orgins of the  false teachings of the “TRINITY”  came from. 

    Peace and love to you and yours……..gene

     

     

    September 28, 2020 at 4:50 am#866431
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    YOU: I don’t see at all the LIGHT that Jesus is declared to be, is shown to pre-exist.

    I actually see the very opposite of that.

    ME: WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM A CARNALLY MINDED PERSON LIKE YOU WITH EVERY RESPECT. Now to be carnally minded is death and an enemy of God Romans 8:6-8

    YOU: Jesus is the LIGHT because he was called to righteousness,

    ME: CALLED TO JUSTICE is more appropriate, as Jesus came to JUSTIFY THE TRUTH of HIS PRE-EXISTENCE as

     The LIGHT and LIFE of all physical, John17:2. Precisely “THE WORD”

    who speaks for no use, hidden in the heart of

    ALL HUMANS, NO MATTER WHO,

    SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD.Rev.13:8

    Well pinpointed out in  BOTH VERSES HEREUNDER:

    John 1:4 In him was LIFE, and

    THE LIFE was THE LIGHT of men.

    John1:9 That was

    THE TRUE LIGHT,

    which ENLIGHTENS

    EVERY MAN

    that COMES

    into this world.
    NOW ANSWER JODI, WHO WAS

    THE FIRST MAN THAT EVER CAME INTO THIS WORLD?

    THAT MAN Jodi

    WAS ENLIGHTENED BY “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE, and IT MEANS THAT

    JESUS PRE-EXISTED AS A SPIRIT:

    ETERNAL LIFE and LIGHT PRECISELY IN

    ADAM’S HEART!

    Now Jodi, read hereunder enough scripture which confirms that

    Jesus is THE LIGHT and PRE-EXISTED

     

    Isaiah 42:6 I the Lord (BEFORE THE WORLD WAS)

    HAVE CALLED YOU IN JUSTICE, ( PRE-EXISTED)

    and taken thee by the hand, and

    PRESERVED thee. ( PRE-EXISTED)

    And I have given thee ( PRE-EXISTED)

    for a covenant of the people,

    for a light of the Gentiles:

    I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You,

    And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, as

    A LIGHT to the nations,

    John 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was

    THE LIGHT of men.

    John 1:7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of

    THE LIGHT, that all men might believe through him.

    John 1:8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of

    THE LIGHT.

    John 1:9 That was

    THE TRUE LIGHT, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world.

    John 3:19 And this is the judgment: because

    THE LIGHT is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil.

    John 9:5 While I am in the world, I am

    THE LIGHT of the world.”

    John 12:35 Jesus therefore said to them: Yet a little while,

    THE LIGHT is among you. Walk whilst you have the light, that the darkness overtake you not. And he that walketh in darkness, knoweth not whither he goeth.

    John 12:36 Whilst you have

    THE LIGHT, believe in the light, that you may be the children of light. These things Jesus spoke; and he went away, and hid himself from them.

    John 12:46 I am come

    A LIGHT into the world; that whosoever believeth in me, may not remain in darkness.

    Luke 2:32 A LIGHT to the revelation of the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

    1 John 2:8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and

    THE TRUE LIGHT is already shining.

    Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should show

     LIGHT to the people, and to the Gentiles.

    Matthew 17:2 And he was transfigured before them.

    And his face did shine as the sun: and his garments became white as snow.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    September 28, 2020 at 8:03 am#866432
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU:

    Bible say

    he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    [18] And he is the head of the body, the church:

    he(JESUS) is before all things, and by him all things consist.
    [18] And he (JESUS) is the head of the body, the church:

    ME: 

    before – para ,

    here in the verse below para is translated as above,

    12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

    and the WORD BY  is EN meaning, in, by, with

    he (Jesus) is ABOVE all things, and IN him all things consist.

    And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn FROM the dead; that in all things he might have first place.

    If Jesus is above all things that makes him of course then head of the church, which is exactly what Paul is telling you.

    “he” is considered the BEGINNING as it relates to the resurrection, as it relates to the Eternal Kingdom. This BEGINNING is the very END that YHVH had declared in His WORD from the beginning. Paul DOES NOT SPEAK concerning Jesus according to two beginnings, just ONE BEGINNING.

    All that is said concerning the “he” or “who” in Colossians 1 is a reference to the MAN raised from the dead who went to sit at YHVH’s right hand as was PROMISED having RECEIVED dominion over all the works that YHVH had created as was also PROMISED. Paul is ONLY speaking in Colossians 1 as it relates to THIS BEGINNING, WHY he says in verse 13-14, ” hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood”.

    Berean you seem to ignore that “he” being FIRST was according to a PROMISE.

    Psam 89:27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.

    YHVH’s WORD/PROMISE was to make for Himself a firstborn and MAKE this firstborn ABOVE all things, even exalt him ABOVE all of the kings of the earth. King David knew this, that is why he called his own son his lord and had died with his flesh having hope that he would be translated into his son’s kingdom. David knew his son would die but his flesh would not be allowed to see decay, instead it would see eternal life. He knew his son would be YHVH’s firstborn and he would received the rights of a firstborn son, David knew he’d even go to sit at YHVH’s right hand. 

    Berean, Jesus didn’t preach that he was some pre-existing being, or a god, he preached saying “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

    Berean, YHVH’s WORD from the beginning that He said would be accomplished was that a MAN would execute YHVH’s purpose for His creation, THIS IS WHY WE ARE TOLD THAT “in him all things consist” that “without him nothing would have been made that was made”.

    Furthermore, as JESUS HAD KNOWN FULL WELL that he was the MAN of YHVH’s own spoken WORD from the beginning promised to receive glory, he prior to his death declared his own FAITH in this word asking for this word to be fulfilled in him.

    7 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

    Berean, YHVH made man in His own image, and the man who had shed his blood at the time Paul wrote to the Colossians, Paul knew this man was up in heaven sitting at YHVH’s right hand existing in the glory of our Father, existing in the invisible image of our  Father.

     

     

    September 28, 2020 at 9:19 am#866434
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    You

    he (Jesus) is ABOVE all things, and IN him all things consist.

    Me

    ONE God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and thro:ugh all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:6

    September 28, 2020 at 9:22 am#866435
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    You

    he (Jesus) is ABOVE all things, and IN him all things consist.

    Me

    ONE God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and thro:ugh all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:6

    God the Father IS above all….

    And Jésus IS well BEFORE ALL THINGS LIKE KINGS JAMES BIBLE SAY

     

     

    September 28, 2020 at 11:38 am#866436
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Hi, Gene,

    YOU: Carmel…..The seed Jesus was sowing was not himself,  no scripture says Jesus is the seed of God, he sowed the seed, but a sower of seed is never himself the seed.

    Gene, first and foremost

    WHEN IT COMES TO THE SPIRITUAL DOCTRINE I’M AFRAID YOU AND Jodi with every respect  ARE SIMPLY

    DEAD!

    ESPECIALLY WHEN THIS DOCTRINE IT IS A CLEAR REFERENCE TO

    “THE WORD”

    DESPITE THE FACT THAT SCRIPTURE MADE IT ABSOLUTE TRUTH THAT

    “THE WORD” IS JESUS 

    THE SON

    OF MAN,

    CAN YOU SEE WHAT IS THE TRUTH HIDDEN BEHIND the title SON of man, Gene?

    NEVER, NEVER, and NEVER!

    Now read the pure truth:

    Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this:

    The seed is “THE WORD” of God. and

    “THE WORD” is JESUS, the SON of man!

    MORE SCRIPTURES

    Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and

    to his seed.

    He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many,

    but rather to one, “And to your seed,”

    that is, Christ.

    John12:23But Jesus answered them, saying:

    The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. (ON HIS DEATH)

    24Amen, amen I say to you, unless

    the grain of wheat

    falling into the ground dies, 25Itself remaineth alone.

    But if it dies, it bringeth forth much fruit.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    September 28, 2020 at 2:41 pm#866437
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You just continue to ignore points directly from scriptures that I give you. Will it ever stop?

    Jesus is the MAN whom YHVH our one true God THE FATHER MADE into His firstborn and MADE him ABOVE/HEAD overall things. His inheritance upon becoming YHVH’s firstborn was to receive dominion over that which YHVH had made ALONE, by Himself. Berean, the dominion that is GIVEN to Jesus is dominion that is under the direction of THE FATHER, he is a SERVANT to our One True God. He does nothing of himself, he isn’t going to even judge us by his own eyes and ears, but you make this son of Jesse into God, it’s ridiculous. 

    You seem to just want to ignore the fact that YHVH had a purpose for His creation, there was to be a new beginning YHVH declared from the beginning. YHVH had made all things for His creation at the beginning to reach THIS new beginning, without this new beginning nothing would have been made that was made. 

    Berean, you don’t put simple two and two together. You don’t see the whole picture given, instead you see false images.

    YHVH’s WORD from the beginning was that a man would come and this man would RECEIVE YHVH’s glory, IT  WAS A PROMISE, this man would save the world from their sins, and this man would come to sit at YHVH’s right hand, and this man would likewise sit on an eternal throne in the flesh on earth as PROMISED.

    How does this passage below fit with your doctrine?…it doesn’t, as so many other passages don’t either.

    Isaiah 53:12 Therefore I will GIVE him a portion among the great,and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    How about this passage,

    “What I’m about to tell you is true,” Jesus said to them. “When all things are made new, the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne. Then you who have followed me will also sit on 12 thrones. You will judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

    Jesus being raised from the dead having eternal life was NEW, it was the glory YHVH had promised unto mankind before the world even was. People witnessed Jesus’s resurrection, which made them believe that YHVH’s WORD was in fact true. We are JOINT heirs with Jesus and some of his brethren will even assist this man in judging the world. 

    September 29, 2020 at 1:44 am#866438
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel……The seed Jesus was talking about is the seed of the kingdom of God, which he went about sowing in people. He was not talking about seed as relating to his linage from Abraham, as what Paul was talking about.

    Man are you ever screwed up in you thinking,  what makes you think you can move contexts of thing written to fit your own “spicial” thinking, when things arn’t even hinted at what you say.  Do you realize how ignorant those false asumptions of your makes you out to be?

    You have bought into Satan’s “LIES” ,  hook line and sinker,  may God help you Carmel. 

    Peace and love to you and yours………gene

     

    September 29, 2020 at 3:22 am#866440
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    [38] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

    For I came down from heaven,…

     

  • Author
    Posts
Viewing 20 posts - 20,801 through 20,820 (of 25,934 total)
123…1,0401,0411,042…1,2951,2961,297
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

 

CREATE NEW TOPIC
POPULAR TOPICS
ACTIVE TOPICS
SITE SEARCH
SUPPORT US
REGISTER

Recent Replies

ALL REPLIES →

© 1999 - 2024 Heaven Net

Navigation

© 1999 - 2023 - Heaven Net
 Log in with Facebook
or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

 Log in with Facebook
or

Create Account