Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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September 21, 2020 at 5:12 am#866319
mikeboll64
Blocked
Gene: Mike…..Please read what Jodi wrote in detail’
The light that enlightens, “every” man that comes into the world” is “the Spirit of God”…
But as you can see from my previous post to Jodi, this “light” has the only name by which we can become true children of God. What is the name of this light, Gene?
September 21, 2020 at 5:52 am#866320
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Mike….the light was the Spirit of God, it is what enlightens “every man”, this light came to be fully placed on The “man” Jesus .

The fulness of the light was “in” Jesus, remember when Jesus said this , “the Father is “in” me? And Jesus by his Faith was “in” the Father, Yes GOD WAS IN THIS WORLD THIS WORLD BEING “IN” The “man” Jesus. But none of that ever made the “man” Jesus the God that was “in” him. No more then if God is in us would make us a God.
God is a Spirit and can “indwell” all of us. We now have the earnest of his Spirit, Jesus existed with the fulness of God the Father “in” him.
It was not Jesus who said , “destory this temple” and in three days I (God) shall raise it up”, that was God the Father speaking through his mouth directly.
What the people did not realize was that God came unto his own people, being “in” Jesus, and they did not realize it, but again none of that made Jesus the God that was “in” him doing the works. Get it? That is exactly why Jesus said he could do “nothing of himself”. Why because he was “NOT” the God that was “IN” him doing all the miracles that was being done.
Neither did Jesus raise himself from the dead either, scripture plainly tells us it was God the Father that raised him from the dead in several places in our texts.
That is why it say , “if the Spirit of him that raise CHRIST JESUS, from the “dead”, dwell “in” you (like it did him) he (God) who raised Jesus from the dead shall “ALSO” quicken (bring back to life) your mortal (dead) Bodies.
So when Jesus said he could do “nothing” of “or (from) himself ” he certainly was not lying.
The problem is many, “most,” try to make the God the Father who was “in” Jesus doing the works, even speaking through him, out to be Jesus himself, this is the source of all false teachings reguarding Jesus. Once you start to see God the Father as a Spirit being , that “indwelled Jesus” and his creation, all of it, then you start getting the true picture. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………..gene.

September 21, 2020 at 5:54 am#866321
Jodi
Participant
Hi Proclaimer,
YOU:
But do you believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh?
ME:
Jesus was anointed and sent, thus Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
Though we were not given his name in prophecy, YHVH’s word was that a son of Jesse would be anointed with the Spirit and then sent out into the world to be a savior through preaching God’s word and fulfilling God’s word by dying on the cross. .
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
The Gospels all declare YHVH’s word made true in the flesh,
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Jesus quotes Isaiah 61 declaring YHVH’s word was made true in him.
Jesus who was anointed and sent, is thus Jesus Christ who came in the flesh.
September 21, 2020 at 6:12 am#866322
mikeboll64
Blocked
The succinct version for Jodi and Gene…
1. The Light was with God in the beginning.
2. The world was created through The Light.
3. The Light came into the world that was created through him, but the world, as a whole, didn’t recognize or accept him.
4. But all of those out of the world who did accept The Light – those who believed in the name of The Light – were given the right to attain eternal salvation as real children of God.
Who is The Light?
John 8:12
Once again, Jesus spoke to the people and said, “I am the light of the world.”
John 9:5
“While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
Compare…
John 1:9
The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world.

John 12:46
“I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in Me should remain in darkness.”
Any questions?
September 21, 2020 at 6:19 am#866323
mikeboll64
Blocked
Jodi: Carmel, Carmel, Carmel, you hold one of the most non biblical, nonsensical doctrines I have ever seen.
Agreed.
September 21, 2020 at 6:31 am#866324
mikeboll64
Blocked
Jodi: Berean,
For you to have any credibility in an accusation you need to quote something that I have said and show specifically how it is twisted against God’s word.
I accept all of your scriptures, Jodi. They teach of how God’s ultimate christ (out of God’s many christs in the scriptures) will come from the seed of David. That is true. That Jesus is both the seed AND the root of David is also true. You teach beautifully on the seed part. You seem to close your eyes to the root part. I’m trying to open your eyes to that part – and I don’t have to reject one iota of the seed part to do it.
September 21, 2020 at 6:46 am#866325
mikeboll64
Blocked
Gene: Mike….the light was the Spirit of God, it is what enlightens “every man”, this light came to be fully placed on The “man” Jesus .
But the light itself has a NAME according to John 1:12, right?
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God…
What is the name of this light, Gene?
September 21, 2020 at 7:28 am#866326
Ed J
Participant
Good job Mike,
Glad you are back!
_______________
Your brother
in Christ
Ed J
September 21, 2020 at 7:31 am#866327
Jodi
Participant
Hi Proclaimer,
YOU:
But do you believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh?
Do you believe that he is the Word of God?
Do you believe that the Word became flesh?
I do not think you do.
You say his name is Jesus and the Word of God, yet you say he is Jesus, but NOT the Word of God.
More holes than a sieve.
ME:
Jesus Christ came in the flesh, Jesus was anointed and sent exactly according to YHVH’s word, thus the word became flesh.
I don’t believe that an anointed son of God was sent to earth were he became a half-breed sent to be our savior.
I believe the child born given the name Jesus, which means YHVH is salvation, was anointed with the Spirit at around the age of 30 for the purpose to be sent to be our savior which he did through preaching YHVH’s word and obeying YHVH’s word.
This anointed (Christ) Jesus preached to save us through receiving the Spirit without measure.
This anointed (Christ) Jesus went to the cross because of the Spirit that was upon him for it was directing all his ways.

September 21, 2020 at 7:43 am#866328
Berean
Participant
Mike
Good intervention

September 21, 2020 at 8:01 am#866329
Jodi
Participant
Hi Proclaimer,
Jesus is the word of YHVH made flesh in more ways than one.
His conception through a virgin birth, his anointing, him going to the cross suffering to bring forth our reconciliation, his resurrection as a firstborn of many with eternal life, his ascension to heaven to sit at YHVH’s right hand, is ALL YHVH’s word that was made true in the flesh.
There is more of the word to be fulfilled in the man of flesh Jesus, including the promise that he as the Son of Man in the glory of our Father is going to return to earth as the ordained promised son of Jesse who will judge the quick and the dead. Also that he is according to the flesh going to sit on his father David’s throne.

September 21, 2020 at 8:16 am#866330
Berean
Participant
Jodi
You
There is more of the word to be fulfilled in the man of flesh Jesus, including the promise that he as the Son of Man in the glory of our Father is going to return to earth as the ordained promised son of Jesse who will judge the quick and the dead. Also that he is according to the flesh going to sit on his father David’s throne.
Me
To be judge of the quik AND the dead OF ALL the World from the biginning if the, Jésus must omniscient That IS to Say God….

September 21, 2020 at 8:19 am#866331
Berean
Participant
To be judge of the quik AND the dead OF ALL the World from the biginning of the world Jésus must omniscient That IS to Say God….
September 21, 2020 at 9:30 am#866332
Proclaimer
Participant
@Jodi
Yes his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”
Is he Jesus? Y /N
Is he The Word of God? Y /N
September 21, 2020 at 9:40 am#866333
Proclaimer
Participant
Jodi and Gene, I don’t think I got an answer from you guys. If so, could you reply with the post number?
Here it is again.
Who was the first being to be with God?
Would that being be important compared with following beings?
Would that being be a firstborn?
I’m betting you guys will dodge these questions.
September 21, 2020 at 1:36 pm#866334
mikeboll64
Blocked
Ed: Good job Mike,
Glad you are back!

Berean: Mike
Good intervention
Thanks fellas! (Well, I know Eddy is a fella. I’m not sure about Berean. 😉)

September 21, 2020 at 1:43 pm#866335
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
YOU:
John Say
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word was with God
17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
The Son existed Before the World was, he was with God
Jodi Is not it true ?
ME:
No, those passages do not teach that the Son existed before the world was. The Son was IN God’s word before the world was.
I like to apply John 1 and John 17 to the below passages, which teach us something else from that which you conclude.
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
Jesus, upon being anointed with the Spirit, was sent out into the world to preach the above WORD of eternal life. He preached about his resurrection unto life as well as our resurrection unto life. He preached that his Father was our Father and his God was our God, and that as he followed the will of the Father, we in order to see the kingdom, also needed to do the will of the Father. He taught that as he was baptized and drank of the cup of the One Spirit we likewise would.
Jesus was also sent to fulfill the WORD of eternal life, not just preach it.
Not only did he die setting us free from the penalty of death so that we could be raised to inherit God’s Spirit when he returns, but he himself was raised we are told no longer to return to corruption, raised in power, in glory, made incorruptible, where he received the PROMISED Holy Spirit. Jesus preached that we would follow him in the regeneration, new birth, and Paul taught that Jesus was our forerunner who entered, and how we are joint heirs of God with him.
Which brings us to the below passages,
1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was WITH the Father, and was manifested unto us.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Acts 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
1 Corinthians 15:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Seeing Jesus raised from the dead was to give us faith in God’s word from the beginning, eternal life is true. That which was from the beginning, the word of eternal life, was made true in Jesus, they saw that life with their own eyes, they touched that life, and knew it would be their life too, that the would be JOINT HEIRS WITH HIM.
Isaiah 46 teaches us that not only WITH the Father from the beginning was the WORD of salvation unto eternal life, but likewise WITH the Father was the WORD of the man who would execute it, where God likewise promised that Jesus would receive a portion among the great and get to divide the spoil among the strong.
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Berean, Jesus does the WORK of the Father because he was anointed with His Spirit and sent to do so. He did so in our Father’s name, giving our Father the GLORY. God would then give Jesus the glory that God had promised before the world was, eternal life, as well as His promise to give him the glory of making him a king of kings and a lord of lords receiving dominon over all the works that YHVH had made by Himself.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with (para/of/from) thee before the world was.
Berean, Jesus received the glory that was WITH/OF the Father from the beginning in His WORD. The Son of Man Jesus, was not ignorant to the promises God had made concerning him. He taught of himself according to prophecy before he died and after he was resurrected, he taught he was the Son of Man with glory and honor given dominion overall the earth, made a firstborn higher than the kings of the earth, he taught he was the Son of Man who would ascend to sit at God’s right hand.
Berean, FROM the beginning God’s word was eternal life, as well as the promise that of the fruit of David’s loins according to the flesh he would raise up Christ to sit on his father David’s throne, where he would be a Son of God according to the Spirit of which he received also according to a promise upon his resurrection from the dead. Where the Spirit is there is righteousness and life, man made and existing in God’s image, where he inhabits the earth for all eternity, which is the reason as to why God made all things in the first place.
In the beginning was the word (eternal life), and the word (eternal life) was with God (just as 1 John 1 says), and the word (eternal life) was God, for God is life, and God’s Spirit is righteousness and life. Also with God in the beginning was His word of the man who would fulfill His word, where all things were made by reason of him, and without him nothing would have been made that was made, as it is by his blood all thing are reconciled, as it is by his blood we are justified from all things.
September 21, 2020 at 1:47 pm#866336
mikeboll64
Blocked
Jodi: Jesus Christ came in the flesh, Jesus was anointed and sent exactly according to YHVH’s word, thus the word became flesh.
Cyrus came in the flesh. Cyrus was anointed and sent exactly according to YHVH’s word too. (Isaiah 1:1-7) Did the word become flesh when Cyrus was born too?
September 21, 2020 at 1:51 pm#866337
Berean
Participant
Hi Mike
We disagree about the Son “begotten in eternity past” …. you say “He was created.”
But there is even more serious than that … and that does not make us enemies …. 🙂
September 21, 2020 at 1:58 pm#866338
Berean
Participant

Jodi
3
panta di autou egeneto kai cwriV autou egeneto oude en o gegonen
1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

cwriV
choris
kho-rece’
adverb from cwra – chora 5561; at a space, i.e. separately or apart from (often as preposition):–beside, by itself, without.

without him was not any thing made that was made.
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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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