Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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September 17, 2020 at 4:44 am#866197
Berean
Participant
Jodi
Jesus was HOLY before His birth on the
flesh because He was GOD.
If You cannot understand THAT ….it’, will be very difficult to understand the reste….

September 17, 2020 at 4:50 am#866198
Berean
Participant
Gene
Jodi and You don’t understand the thruth and You are not humble to listen the truth…
September 17, 2020 at 4:53 am#866199
Jodi
Participant
Berean and Proclaimer,
Scripture directly tells us that a horn of salvation from the house of David was IN God’s WORD from the beginning, not that this horn pre-existed as God’s WORD from the beginning.
Scripture directly tells us that God made heaven, earth, and all things by Himself, all alone.
Scripture directly tells us that from the beginning it was God Himself speaking and declaring things that are right, and that which He declared was a man to come to execute the very purpose to why He created all things in the first place.

September 17, 2020 at 4:58 am#866200
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Berean……So Jesus was lying , when he said “this is eternal life, that they may know you the “ONLY” “TRUE” God”?  Was he talking about himself when he said that?
If he was then why did he say ““YOU” are the “ONLY” true GOD? And let not forget the scripture Says.
“unto us there is but , “ONE” God, and “ONE” mediator between God and men, “THE MAN” Christ Jesus.
AND SCRIPTURE SAY THIS, God is “Not” a man, nor a SON OF MAN”.  until you reconcile this in your thinking, you will never come to the truth IMO,
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
September 17, 2020 at 5:10 am#866201
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Jodi, I know this is discouraging to us, but always remember, if Jesus couldn’t cause people to come to him and the truth, we certanily can’t also, those who will recieve the truth have the truth already in them placed their by God the Father, they by the “Spirit of truth”, know the sound of the truth. It also helps to remember, “unless the LORD (Yehovah ) build the house, the weary builders build in vain”. We simply are witnessing to them, but it must be God who gives the increase Sis, I tell you this so you won’t get discouraged.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
September 17, 2020 at 6:08 am#866202
Jodi
Participant
Berean,
If you want to establish any credibility at all then when someone gives you a passage or a few to discuss you need to not turn your back to them.
Can you discuss the below passages directly or not?
Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. 18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. 20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. 25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Berean, you do realize that Isaiah’s prophecies are not yet fully fulfilled. Seems like you would have me believe that the word of God from Isaiah is all a bunch of total lies.
The one who is called to righteousness is not the LORD WHO made heaven, earth, and people ALONE, by Himself.
The one who is made to have quick understanding is not the LORD WHO says there is no God else besides him.
John 20:go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
How is this Son of man able to reward every man according to his works?
Because the Spirit of our One and ONLY True God is upon him. He had been raised from the dead we are told receiving it according to a promise.

September 17, 2020 at 8:40 am#866208
Jodi
Participant
Hi All,
John 17: 14-18 is a passage I believe is constantly ignored and not applied where it is directly to be applied to.
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
John 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Jesus was sent to speak God’s word upon the Spirit having descended upon him. Likewise the Spirit came upon others were they were then sent out into the world just as Jesus was sent out into the world.
They were not considered to be of the world just as Jesus was not considered to be of the world. If they were sent not being of the world, where then were they of, and likewise then where was Jesus of? They were of God of course, they were of heaven sent out into the world being of heaven/of God.

September 17, 2020 at 9:33 am#866211
Jodi
Participant
Hi All,
John 6:33-35 is a passage that is misinterpreted because other passages are not applied to it.
John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.35 And Jesus said unto them,I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
John 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Deut 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.
Jesus is the BREAD OF LIFE BECAUSE he was anointed with the Spirit not by measure and sent out into the world to preach God’s word, those who listen and believe the word are promised eternal life.
The BREAD is the WORD OF LIFE dwelling in Jesus to which Jesus then preaches. That WORD in him makes him not of this world, he does not speak earthly things. That WORD in him makes him from heaven able to speak heavenly things.
“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”
John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
John 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Jesus is the BREAD FROM HEAVEN, he is the WORD from heaven, because God was in him commanding him to speak all that God wanted him to say.
God gave Jesus of Nazareth His Spirit not by measure so to direct all his ways and have him speak His words.
Those WORDS were Spirit and they were life, hence why Jesus calls himself the BREAD OF LIFE, and why God said those who believed upon him and his words would be saved.

September 17, 2020 at 10:09 am#866212
carmel
Participant
Hi Jodi,
YOU: Carmel, Carmel, Carmel, you hold one of the most non biblical, nonsensical doctrines I have ever seen.
Jodi, Jodi, Jodi, CORRECTION:
NOT SEEN, but
HEARD OR READ!
I DON’T BLAME YOU SINCE YOU ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN WORLDLY WISDOM.
APART THAT YOU DON’T SEE THINGS THE WAY I SEE THINGS.
MORE SPIRITUALLY AND OUT OF THIS WORLD.
Now back to your definition of MORTAL, READ:
Oxford English and Spanish Dictionary, Thesaurus, and Spanish to English Translator
UK Dictionary
(of a living human being, often in contrast to a divine being)
subject to death.
‘all men are mortal’
OK Jodi NOT S YOU SAID:
ABLE TO DIE!
THERE’S NO KIND OF ABILITY IN ORDER FOR A HUMAN TO DIE,
YOU SIMPLY DIE WHETHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT BECAUSE OF SIN!
JESUS, the SON of MAN though
NOT ACCORDING TO YOU UNDERSTANDING,
AS A DIVINE/HUMAN BEING HAD A UNIQUE POWER IN ORDER FOR HIM TO DIE.
HE SIMPLY SPIRITUALIZED HIS BODY AND INTEGRATED IT
ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST.
EVEN BEFORE HE SUFFERED and was in the position to destroy His own body himself and die when He himself WISHED, He had full control over DEATH!
Luke 13:32 And he said to them: Go and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and do cures to day and to morrow, and
the third day I am consummated.

YOU: I am not going to bother to do it again, as I do not see the slightest ability in you that holds any level of reasoning, to which I could then be able to possibly reach.
YOU WILL NEVER REACH!
YOU ARE SIMPLY STAGNATED CARNALLY MINDED WITH EVERY RESPECT,

Jodi IT’S NO USE POSTING THE ABOVE unless you BE SPECIFIC.
SO pick any verse I posted and specifically
CONTRADICT ME USING SCRIPTURE,
IN THE MEANTIME:
MINE STANDS

Peace and love in Jesus Christ
September 18, 2020 at 9:26 am#866232
Jodi
Participant
Hi Gene,
Thank you for your reminder to these words of wisdom, your encouragement once again is very much appreciated and was needed brother!
Responding to their doctrine does cause me to read scripture over and over again where then I find more amazing connections/alignments to His word, building my knowledge and faith all the more. I see that their blindness does serve a purpose for my own sake.
Peace and love to you, Jodi
September 18, 2020 at 11:35 pm#866243
Proclaimer
Participant
You have the actual audacity on this Christian forum to accuse me of “cherry picking” scripture when you yourself have “cherry picked” my own posts, not bothering to read the ones filled with scripture.
Proclaimer, at this point I see you as a MAN WHO IS RIPE WITH INJUSTICE.
Audacity? It is a fact. You focus on one aspect of Jesus in order to hide the other aspects. It’s as plain as day.
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death — even death on a cross!
As for your long posts, why would you think I need to waste my life reading your long posts when it is as I said above, talking about one aspect of Jesus Christ to hide the other aspects. Like everyone else I have seen come here. I gave you a fair shot and listened. But I soon learned to ignore your teaching because it is false. And when I do take a look and randomly read a part of a post from the top, middle, or bottom, I see you haven’t changed. Still denying his real origin
September 18, 2020 at 11:38 pm#866244
Proclaimer
Participant
Think about this
Try to imagine this folks. That only God exists. Then begats another to be with him. Obviously someone was first right?
Imagine the special relationship God would have would that son or offspring. Do you think they would talk about what would come next? A creation and more sons? Perhaps that God would create these for him? What would God and this first person talk about and contemplate?
Now ask yourself who this very special person is. Who is the firstborn?
Who is it Jodi and Gene?
I know who it is. But do you?
I guess you do not know.
You are in darkness to the answer right?
September 19, 2020 at 3:46 am#866254
Jodi
Participant
Hi Proclaimer,
Think about this,
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Paul who knows that Jesus is the Son of Man “exalted to the right hand of God having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost”, speaks of Jesus as God’s Son according to prophecy,
Psalm 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him (An ANOINTING), the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
2 Sam 3:9 So do God to Abner, and more also, except, as the LORD hath sworn to David, even so I do to him; 10 To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba.
Col 1: For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Proclaimer,
WHO created David’s throne?
Which is true according to the passages above? A. or B.?
A. A pre-existing Jesus in creating all things including thrones, created his future father David’s throne for himself, knowing that his heavenly Father would give it to him.
B. YHVH in creating all things including thrones had created David’s throne by reason of and for David’s son Jesus to inherit for evermore.

September 19, 2020 at 3:49 am#866255
Jodi
Participant
Proclaimer,
When there are scriptures that are to be applied together and they give a clear truth, I ask that you take 2 minutes of your time to read those scriptures.
September 19, 2020 at 4:35 am#866257
Berean
Participant
JODI
only twists and turns to justify your position. Jesus came from heaven sent by God the Father; he himself is the LIVING BREAD FROM HEAVEN …
HE WAS WITH GOD AND HE WAS GOD …. THIS IS THE SIMPLE TRUTH.
Read John 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

September 19, 2020 at 4:36 am#866258
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Proclaimer……Jesus do not preexist his birth on this earth, he was and is the “prophesied” human being that was to come from the loins of King David. Jodi and I have been trying to tell you and everyone here that for years. Unless you see Jesus as a 100% pure human being, who came into his “only” being exactly as we do , through a human berth process, you simple are seening the wrong Jesus, not the Jesus of the bible.
God the Father took an ordinary human being (concerning his flesh and blood existence) , exactly as we are in every way , and “perfected him” in every way, just like he can do to us. JESUS IS A TRUE HUMAN EXAMPLE OF WHAT GOD CAN DO IN US ALL.
PROCLAIMER take Jodi’s challenge, think about it brother. She is apsolute right in this, your so close to understanding it, may God our Father help you to see it clearly brother.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

September 19, 2020 at 4:37 am#866259
Berean
Participant
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
September 19, 2020 at 4:50 am#866261
Jodi
Participant
Proclaimer,
God is very detailed in His given word, the truth is in the details of His word and He gave us a very long book.
Details applied to details establishes for us His clear message.
I give you posts of scriptures containing CRUCIAL DETAILS and will also repeat exactly those details.
“Long posts” equate to 2-3 minutes of your time to read, good grief! It takes about 4,800 minutes for the average person to merely read the bible, and a whole lot more time re-reading to come to understand it.
You reply by saying you won’t bother to read them as you claim that “the devil is in the details”.
You like to defend your beliefs only within certain parameters so to keep your doctrine safe, that’s what I see.

September 19, 2020 at 5:02 am#866263
Jodi
Participant
Berean,
For you to have any credibility in an accusation you need to quote something that I have said and show specifically how it is twisted against God’s word.
September 19, 2020 at 5:44 am#866264
carmel
Participant
HI Jodi,
YOU: Berean,
For you to have any credibility in an accusation you need to quote something that I have said and show specifically how it is twisted against God’s word.
THE ABOVE jodi, APPLIES ALSO FOR YOU IN MY CASE.
SPECIFY ONE VERSE FROM MY POST
AND CONTRADICT ME USING SCRIPTURE PLEASE
IN THE MEANTIME
MINE STANDS
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
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HEARD OR READ!

(of a living human being, often in contrast to a divine being)

subject to death.

‘all men are mortal’

YOU SIMPLY DIE WHETHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT BECAUSE OF SIN!

NOT ACCORDING TO YOU UNDERSTANDING,

EVEN BEFORE HE SUFFERED and was in the position to destroy His own body himself and die when He himself WISHED, He had full control over DEATH!

MINE STANDS

Think about this

THE ABOVE jodi, APPLIES ALSO FOR YOU IN MY CASE.

MINE STANDS

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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

HEARD OR READ!

(of a living human being, often in contrast to a divine being)

subject to death.

‘all men are mortal’

YOU SIMPLY DIE WHETHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT BECAUSE OF SIN!

NOT ACCORDING TO YOU UNDERSTANDING,

EVEN BEFORE HE SUFFERED and was in the position to destroy His own body himself and die when He himself WISHED, He had full control over DEATH!

MINE STANDS

Think about this

THE ABOVE jodi, APPLIES ALSO FOR YOU IN MY CASE.

MINE STANDS

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