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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • September 13, 2020 at 5:27 am#866098
    Berean
    Participant

    You can’t rationally argue against that logic.  Unfortunately, many still try to.

    Hi Mike

    Do you believe that the Son of God took on his divine nature our human nature?

    September 13, 2020 at 5:46 am#866099
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    I believe Jesus emptied himself of his glorious heavenly nature to be born on earth as a human being.  After accomplishing what his and our God sent him to do, he ascended back to heaven, where he now exists with that previous glory – plus some more.

    I hope that answers your question, as I couldn’t quite understand the wording.

    September 13, 2020 at 6:14 am#866100
    Berean
    Participant

    Glorious heavenly nature….???

    Do You believe in His divinity ?

    Because John write he was GOD (not the God) in the biginning….

    September 13, 2020 at 6:24 am#866101
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Yes, Jesus is divine… as are God’s other faithful angels.  But they remain angels of God – not God Himself.  And angels are indeed gods – whether or not they are faithful to YHWH.  Satan is a god.  Molech is a god.  Dagon is a god.  Michael is a god.  Gabriel is a god.  Jesus is a god.

    But only YHWH is the Most High God OF all of the other gods the Bible teaches about.  And let’s face it, YHWH couldn’t possibly be the Most High God if there existed no less high gods.  He couldn’t possibly be the God OF gods if there existed no other gods for Him to be the God OF.

    The Bible teaches of many gods and many lords, both in heaven and on earth.  Most people refuse to accept this clear scriptural teaching.

    September 13, 2020 at 7:08 am#866102
    Berean
    Participant

    No Mike. THE SON OF GOD IS GOD AS THE GOD IS GOD AND NOT AS THE ANGELS

    Angels are not God as Jesus IS God

    Angels are creature, not THE DIVINE ONLY ONE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD

    September 13, 2020 at 9:52 am#866103
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Mike. , you Say scripture dosen’t “prohibit” it, but then again scripture does not say Jesus prexisted his birth on this earth either.  So to say he did, is just a speculation by you and others here.

    Now in light of that we have many scriptures that show differently, including what Yehovah himself said right. He said that there is”no” other God besides him, and even commanded us not to even try to make one besides him not to even mention what Jesus himself said,  “this is eternal life, that they might know “YOU” the “ONLY” true God”,…. now when any person says the word “YOU” with the word “ONLY”, true God”, wouldn’t that AUTOMATICALLY exclude the person saying that as well as ANY OTHER being a “true GOD” ? 

    NOW LET’S SEE WHAT GOD HIMSELF says about another God,

    Isa 44: 6 -8…..Thus says the LORD (YEHOVAH) the king of Isreal, and his (Israel’s) redeemer the LORD (YEHOVAH) of hosts; I am the first and the last; and beside me there is “NO” God.  7, and who shall I call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are comming, and shall come, let them show unto them.  8,  Fear ye them not neither be afraid: have not I told you from that time, and have declared it? You are even my witnesses, Is there a God “besides me”,  Yea there is “NO” God ; “I know not any”. 

    But you people think you know more then “Yehovah” our “ONLY” TRUE GOD DOES, We’ll see how that all works out in the end . 

    Also Jesus  said,  “if they speak not in accordance with these scriptures, believe them not for there is “NO” truth “in” them.”

    The primary principle for all true believers is,  that there is “ONLY” ONE TRUE GOD”. if you do not have that basic  understanding in you,  you are simply not of the Truth. IMO and Jesus’ also.

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

     

     

     

     

    September 13, 2020 at 10:51 am#866104
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: Yes, Jesus is divine… as are God’s other faithful angels.

    NO Mike, CREATURES LIKE ANGELS,

    ARE NOT DIVINE.

    ALL CREATURES ARE CREATED OUTSIDE OF GOD,

    AD-EXTRA.

    JESUS IS DIVINE THE FATHER’S SUBSTANCE.

    AD -INTRA.

    LIKE YOU AS A SOUL, ARE OF YOUR FATHER’S SUBSTANCE.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    September 13, 2020 at 12:01 pm#866105
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all…..Jesus said,  “call no “man” on earth your Father”, for “ONE” IS “YOUR” FATHER,  who is in heaven”. 

    Question is do you “truly believe Jesus”? 

    Peace and love to you and yours ………..gene

    September 13, 2020 at 6:32 pm#866106
    Berean
    Participant

    And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    Révélation 19:13. Say THAT Jesus’s name IS CALLED. THE WORD OF GOD.

    IS it not clear Gene?

    Do You believe THIS verse Gene ?

    September 13, 2020 at 7:29 pm#866107
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: To all…..Jesus said,  “call no “man” on earth your Father”, for “ONE” IS “YOUR” FATHER,  who is in heaven”.

    WITH EVERY RESPECT,

    JESUS IN THE ABOVE WAS NOT REFERRING TO A FATHER IN

    FLESH AND BLOOD!

    JESUS HIMSELF MADE IT CLEAR

    that THE FATHER IS SPIRIT, IN

    John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true adorers shall adore

    the Father in spirit and in truth.(not with words)

    For the Father also seeketh such to adore him. ( spiritually)

    24God is a spirit; (the father of all spirits)

    and they that adore him, must adore him in

    spirit and in truth. 

    Now Gene, get this into

    YOUR CARNAL MIND, WHICH IS AN ENEMY FO GOD!

    THAT

    TRUTH  in the above IS

    JESUS CHRIST!

    John14:6

    Jesus saith to him:

    I am the way, and the truth, and the life. ( A DIRECT REFERENCE TO

    ETERNAL LIFE OF

    HUMANS IN FLESH AND BLOOD, the fact that HE LEFT HIS ONENESS WITH HIS

    SPIRITUAL FATHER! ATTENTION Gene:)

    No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

    7If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also:

    and from henceforth you shall know him, and

    you have seen him. ( a clear reference to himself as

    THE FATHER OF ALL FLESH)

    JOHN 17:2 As thou hast given him

    POWER OVER ALL FLESH

    that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.

     

    THUS IF YOU WANT TO ADORE GOD IN TRUTH

    YOU CAN ONLY ACHIEVE THIS WHEN YOU

    ADORE JESUS CHRIST

    THE TRUTH on earth. 

    Well clear in

    John5:23 That all men may honour the Son,

    as they honour the Father.

    He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father,

    who hath sent him.

    OK Gene!

    THE ONLY CARNAL GOD AND FATHER FOR HUMANITY IS

    JESUS CHRIST, 

    READ:

    John 20:17 Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me,

    for I am not yet

    ascended to (the state and  glory of)

    my Father.

    But go to my brethren, and say to them:

    I ascend to (the state and  glory of)

    my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God.

    ASSERTED IN Ephesians 4:6  One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

    ALSO IN

    1John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world is seated in wickedness. (SATANIC)

    20And we know that the Son of God is come: (FROM WHERE Gene?)

    and he hath given us understanding that we may know

    THE TRUE GOD

    and may be in his

    TRUE SON

    THE IS THE TRUE GOD AND LIFE ETERNAL.

    WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT  

    IT IS THE TRUTH IN

    JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER

    OF THE HUMAN RACE IN FLESH AND BLOOD.

     

    AS THE FATHER, SPIRIT, COULD NOT ACHIEVE  THIS ALL BY HIMSELF, EXCEPT IN

    “THE WORD” JESUS THE SON OF MAN IN ONE GLORY WITH THE 

    HOLY GHOST IN

    JESUS CHRIST

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    September 13, 2020 at 10:43 pm#866108
    Ed J
    Participant

    I believe Jesus emptied himself of his glorious heavenly nature to be born on earth as a human being. After accomplishing what his and our God sent him to do, he ascended back to heaven, where he now exists with that previous glory – plus some more.

    I hope that answers your question, as I couldn’t quite understand the wording.

    Hi Mike,

    Look at this thread Mike…

    (They’re actually preaching Joseph is Jesus biological father, can you believe that?)

    Joseph, Jesus’ father? Crazy people would believe this!

    September 14, 2020 at 1:46 am#866110
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…..Jesus said the words I am telling you, “are” Spirit and life”.   Are not words the expressions of the Spirit “WITHIN”?  Remember GOD “SAID” LET THERE BE THIS AND THAT, and it came into existence. Words are not flesh, never were,  Jesus’ Father was God exactly as our father is also God, just as Jesus said he is. 

    But then again you people really do not believe what Jesus said, or you would know that. All word are spirit either of GOD or of the Devil.

    Mat 12: 36-37…..Jesus said this……But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof “in the day of judgement. For “BY” your “WORDS”,  you shall be “Justified,” and “BY”  your “WORDS”, you shall be condemmed”. 

    Peace and love to you and your……..gene

    September 14, 2020 at 2:03 am#866111
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    John write
    In the beginning was THE WORD and THE WORD was with GOD and THE WORD was GOD ….
    When God speaks a word /(s), we can say that these spoken words are of God, or divine, but we cannot say that they are God, it is forcing the text to say that.

    September 14, 2020 at 3:07 am#866112
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj….Wrong what we preach is that God formed  Jesus from the linage of King David, which WAS Joseph’s linage also. As Mathew clearly states.

    What we are against, is that JESUS HAD A “PREEXISTING” LIFE BEFORE HE WAS BORN AS a flesh and blood being on this earth. That is our argument here, as far as Jesus’ linage goes scriptures show it clearly. 

    Rom 1:3…..Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our lord, which was “made of the seed of David”, according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, “by” the resurection from the dead”: 

    How was he declared to be a son of God?, “BY” THE RESURECTION FROM THE “DEAD”   and will we not also be declared to be Sons of God by our resurection from the dead if we die? 

    2 Ti 2:8…..Remember that Jesus Christ “of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gosple:

    Mat 1:1…..The book of the generation of Jesus Christ,  “the son of David”, the Son of Abraham.

    Mat 12: 28….and all the people were amazed and said “is this not the , the son of David?

    Mat 15: 22….have mercy on me , O lord, “you son of David…

    Mat 20:30. AND 31…..Have mercy on us, O lord , “you son of David.

    Mat 21:9….Hosanna “to the son of David” :

    Mat 21: 15….Hosanna “to the Son of David; 

    Luk 1: 69….. and has raised up a horn of salvation for us “in the house of his servant David”; 

    Luk 2:4……. because he was of the “house and “linage” of David”. 

    Rev 5:5….. the lion of (from) the tribe of Juda, the root of DAVID…..

    That is what  some,  not all,  scripture says. But then again the question is do you believe what Jesus and scripture really says.

    Peace and  love  to  you  and  yours. ………gene

    September 14, 2020 at 3:50 am#866115
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene wrote

     

    LU and Berean……Jodi is “exactly”  right,  Jesus was a direct decedent of King David, through the linage of Joseph,  as Matthew  says .   Why is it so hard for you to believe God the Father Took the DNA of Joseph  and impregnated Mary with it?  That certanly would be easier then the “morphing” process that you people preach of a preexisting God being, a thousand time easier to do and far more logical.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    Why is it so hard for you to believe God the Father Took the DNA of Joseph  and impregnated Mary with it?

    Gene  …You still believe THAT yes or no…?

     

    September 14, 2020 at 3:52 am#866116
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: No Mike. THE SON OF GOD IS GOD AS THE GOD IS GOD AND NOT AS THE ANGELS

    Angels are not God as Jesus IS God

    Angels are creature, not THE DIVINE ONLY ONE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD

    There is actually no such thing as an “angel” in the Hebrew or Greek scriptures.  Both the Hebrew and Greek words translated into English as “angel” actually mean “messenger”.  When the “messenger” in question was deemed by the English translators to be a spirit entity, they used the word “angel”.  The Young’s Literal Translation (YLT) uses “messenger” every time, and never “angel”.   So a simple question:  Was Jesus ever a “spirit messenger” of God?

    Revelation 1:1 Young’s Literal Translation
    A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did signify it, having sent through his messenger to his servant John…

    That is just one example of Jesus being a messenger of his and our God, YHWH.  And as a “spirit messenger” of God, Jesus is, by definition, an “angel of God”.  He is higher than God’s other spirit sons, being the firstborn and the beginning of the creation by God, but Jesus is indeed a creation of his and our God, and an “angel/spirit messenger” of his and our God.

    September 14, 2020 at 4:00 am#866117
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Gene:  Mike. , you Say scripture dosen’t “prohibit” it, but then again scripture does not say Jesus prexisted his birth on this earth either. 

    Scripture clearly and explicitly teaches that Jesus pre-existed his dwelling among us on earth as flesh.  Maybe you could answer the question I’m asking Jodi right now…

    WHO exactly did John the Baptizer come as a witness to?

     

    September 14, 2020 at 4:10 am#866119
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Carmel: NO Mike, CREATURES LIKE ANGELS,

    ARE NOT DIVINE.

    Psalm 82 English Standard Version
    1 God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment…

    6 I have said, “You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High…

    Seems that two little verses in one psalm eliminate both Carmel’s and Gene’s arguments.  Of course there are many other verses to back these two up if anyone’s interested.

    September 14, 2020 at 4:12 am#866120
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    Révélation 19:13. Say THAT Jesus’s name IS CALLED. THE WORD OF GOD.

    IS it not clear Gene?

    Do You believe THIS verse Gene ?

    Once again, it is impossible to rationally argue against this statement.  I’m anxious to see how Jodi and Gene answer my question about John the Baptizer.

    September 14, 2020 at 4:15 am#866121
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Ed: Look at this thread Mike…

    (They’re actually preaching Joseph is Jesus biological father, can you believe that?)

    If anyone truly is preaching such a thing, they are doing so against scripture.  We’re told that Joseph never even laid with Mary until after Jesus was born.

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