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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • June 17, 2020 at 2:07 am#864548
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi……They just are unable to understand, it’s as if the true light has been denied them, so they just go all over the place, bouncing off the walls with their false teachings , blind as bats , completely denied the truth, no matter how simple and clear we make it, they just don’t get it. They say the believe Jesus but yet deny his own words, as if he didn’t even say them.  I haven’t heard any of them say  what we “quote”  Jesus saying was the truth. So I just keep saying the same thing over and over, hoping they will just acknowledge those words as truth, quoting Jesus, when he said , “that they might known you the “ONLY” TRUE GOD” ,  hopefull they could at least, get that part right. But so far no acknowledgement of those words, and another support scripture that says,  “unto us (true believers) there is but “ONE” GOD and one mediator between God and men the “MAN” Jesus “the Christ”.  

    It apsolutely amazes me that they can’t seem to get what we are “clearly” posting to them. Not so much as even one acknowledgement of the truth of those scriptures. So the way I see it if they can’t even acknowledge those simply scriptures, there simple is no light in them. Like Jesus Said , “if the light in them be darkness, how great is that darkness”, good question. 

    They are unable to deal with theses simple scriptures we “quote” them, so they just ignore them,  as if those scriptures are not even in their bibles, as if they don’t even exist.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

     

     

    June 17, 2020 at 2:52 am#864550
    sonofGod
    Participant

    Please define “anti-Christ group”

    June 17, 2020 at 8:41 am#864551
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Son of God….. anti… (against),… Christos, the (anointing, hense also, against  the anointed one, Jesus ) ,  The apostle coined that term because of the Gnostic’s were teaching that Jesus was not a man who needed to be anointed like all men do , but a PREXISTING GOD, who did not need to be anointed with anything because,  he was already  God.  So John simply called them “antichrists”,  they were changing the “image” of Jesus from a “man” into the “image” of a GOD, as taught to this very day.  They deny Jesus being a real human being, so all who believe and teach that way are in the “group” of “antichrists”. 

    The true church of God was corrupted almost at the very start,  Paul prophesied about this in, 2ths2, …..  For those who have eyes to see.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

    June 17, 2020 at 9:48 am#864552
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene,

    Regarding this post:

    I (LU) wrote:

    You said: ”ADONAI” refers to the ALMIGHTY GOD, a person named YEHWEH, OR YEHOVAH.

    In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name by which he shall be called: Yahweh our righteousness.

    Who is called “Yahweh our righteousness” here, Gene?

    So Gene, according to your response, the one who is called “Yahweh our Righteous” Is the Almighty God, correct? Is that what you are saying??

     

    June 17, 2020 at 10:38 am#864553
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Antichrist = denying Jesus Christ came in the flesh or denying that he is the Son of God. Two doctrines do this:

    1. The Trinity teaches that Jesus is God and God came in the flesh. It does away with him being the true Son and makes him God instead of His son.
    2. Saying that Jesus is a man only denies his origin as the Word and Son that God created all things through.

    The truth is simple. God has a son. God made him both Lord and Christ. He is the Word that became flesh. He is now in the glory that he had before he came to Earth. God sent his son onto this world as a sacrifice for our sins. His origin is from ancient times. He was neither without origin or an origin as a new born baby. He came in the flesh.

    June 17, 2020 at 7:14 pm#864555
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi, Praclaimer,

    YOU: He is now in the glory that he (ME: JESUS CHRIST GODMAN) had before he came to Earth. 

    John6:62 If then you shall see

    the Son of man ascend up

    WHER HE WAS BEFORE?

    WELL SAID! Proclaimer.

    ALLELUIA

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    June 17, 2020 at 9:14 pm#864556
    Ed J
    Participant

    Please define “anti-Christ group”

    Hi SonOf,

    Never heard the term before; what does it mean?

    ____________
    God bless
    ED J

    June 18, 2020 at 2:59 am#864558
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer. …Jesus said clearly ” the words he was telling us was “not” his words, BUT,  the words of him who sent him. So if the words he was telling us weren’t “his” words, how do you say he “is” the word of God “himself”? 

    ARE you making Jesus out to be a thief? By saying the words he was telling us was “his” words?, and telling us that he was the word of God himself?

    Sorry I don’t buy it, God and his words are one and the same, just  as you and your words are.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

     

    June 18, 2020 at 4:36 am#864559
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi said

    “Our heavenly Father did not forgive us of our sins through sending down God to become flesh temporarily and die for us.”

    THE BIBLE SAID

    [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    [19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    So the heavenly Father”did not forgive us of our sins through sending down God “……

    HE DO NOT SEND DOWN GOD BUT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON….DIFFERENCE JODI.

    THE SON OF GOD IS GOD(the same nature as the Father) IN THE FLESH

    AND “THE WORD” WAS GOD…..AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH….

     

    June 18, 2020 at 4:49 am#864560
    Berean
    Participant

    JESUS IS

    THE

     DIVINE SON OF GOD

    JOHN5[18] Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

    June 18, 2020 at 9:12 am#864561
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Further, he emptied himself and came as a man in the flesh and humbled himself and died for our sins. In this, the son learned obedience which is not to say that he was not obedient to begin with, but that he had to trust God for everything as he was a helpless human. Now he is with the Father in the glory that he had with him before the cosmos. We can assume that he is restored back to what he was and then some and he invites us to be like him and share in divine nature and to have a body like his.

    June 18, 2020 at 9:16 am#864562
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Bump for Gene to clarify:

    Gene,

    Regarding this post:

    I (LU) wrote:

    You said: ”ADONAI” refers to the ALMIGHTY GOD, a person named YEHWEH, OR YEHOVAH.

    In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name by which he shall be called: Yahweh our righteousness.

    Who is called “Yahweh our righteousness” here, Gene?
    So Gene, according to your response, the one who is called “Yahweh our Righteous” Is the Almighty God, correct? Is that what you are saying??

    June 18, 2020 at 9:23 am#864563
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Proclaimer. …Jesus said clearly ” the words he was telling us was “not” his words, BUT, the words of him who sent him. So if the words he was telling us weren’t “his” words, how do you say he “is” the word of God “himself”?

    A good reason to be called the Word of God don’t you think?

    Your understanding seems blurred when it comes to a person vs an attribute.

    For example, truth is an attribute of God, but Jesus clearly said he was the Truth.

    Does that make Jesus, God? No, what it does do is say that all truth comes from God, but that the son of God is full of truth and no lie is in him. Thus he can be called the Truth.

    Finally, this is a big clue if you have eyes to see. God created all things through his Word. God created all things through the son. Perhaps there is a clue in there for you. In fact it is so clear that one cannot have an excuse to excuse it.

    Colossians 1:17
    He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

    John 1:1-3
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 He was with God in the beginning.
    3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    Hebrews 1:1-2
    1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
    2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

    Colossians 1:15-18
    The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

    Not everyone believes in the true Jesus and who he was and is and is to come. But there are many Jesus’s out there for people to believe in. Only one of them is the truth and much is written about him in scripture.

    June 18, 2020 at 9:26 am#864564
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    YOU: He is now in the glory that he (ME: JESUS CHRIST GODMAN) had before he came to Earth.

    Are you claiming to be the one?

    June 19, 2020 at 12:46 am#864568
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer…..So according to you Jesus lied when he said “the words I am telling you are “NOT” my words, but the words of him that sent me”.  So you really do not believe what Jesus himself said right?.  I think before we can move on we need to know if you “truly” believe what Jesus said or not? 

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

     

    June 19, 2020 at 1:31 am#864569
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU…….,   Jesus is not YEHWEH,  I can’t believe you don’t understand that.   Who do you think he was praying to, himself?  Jesus has many names or titles,  that are not “exactly who or what he is” example,  is Jesus truly a real  Lamb?, yet he is called the Lamb of God right?,   he is called “the rightiousness of YEHWEH “because”, he does the “will” of “our” only God, YEHWEH, who is our  “only” God and his “only” God.  Jesus is called the word of God , not because he is the words of God himself, but because God the Father gives him the words to tell us, or don’t you truly believe what he said,  “the words I am telling you are not “my” words, but the words of him that sent me”.  How much of what Jesus said do you people “really” believe, would be the real question here.  If you people “truly believed”  what Jesus said, instead of what those blind Pharisees say, then you would apsolutely know Jesus was not the word of God “himself”, no more then the angel who spoke to Moses was, no more the any prophet were either. 

    The Pharisees accused him  of breaking the Sabbath, do you believe he did?, if he did then he was a sinner right?, point is you can’t believe what those blind Pharisees say.  By Jesus saying he was the son of God, in no way meant he was saying he was equal to God as they falsely accused him of saying, Adam is also called a Son of God, do you think he is GOD also?,  in fact you people do the same thing also,   You proclaim Jesus  as GOD HIMSELF, right?

    Here is the “true” word of GOD,  “YOU shall have no other God besides me “.  question is,  do you “truly” believe God the Father and the “man” Jesus Christ our lord.  

    I will tell all of you this, no one who says, Jesus is God himself,  will be accepted by him or the Father,  ever. why? Because making Jesus your God is committing “idolatry”,  just that simple, and no “idolatry” will ever be accepted. REPENT.

    Peace and love to you all and yours. ……….gene

     

     

    June 19, 2020 at 8:26 am#864575
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi, Proclaimer,

    YOU: He is now in the glory that he (ME: JESUS CHRIST GODMAN) had before he came to Earth.

    Are you claiming to be the one?

    NO, NO,

    THAT IS ONLY TO SHOW YOU, THAT THEY ARE NOT YOUR WORDS BUT

    MINE!

    I ADDED THOSE WORDS,

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    June 30, 2020 at 4:58 am#864699
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    ME: So the heavenly Father”did not forgive us of our sins through sending down God “……

    YOU: HE DO NOT SEND DOWN GOD BUT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON….DIFFERENCE JODI.

    THE SON OF GOD IS GOD(the same nature as the Father) IN THE FLESH

    AND “THE WORD” WAS GOD…..AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH….

    ME: You said that the Son of God IS GOD, so there is NO DIFFERENCE.

    I said what I said exactly because you believe as well as others that the Son of God is God, and the passage says that God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son. He who gave His Son IS GOD, and this Son you say is God, so what I said stands according to all manner of reason. 

    Berean, scripture speaks clearly against your doctrine,

    There was NO Son that was SENT until after the baptism John preached.

    Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached BEFORE HIS COMING the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

    John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that THIS IS the Son of God.

    Below is the WORD of the LORD spoken by Isaiah in chapters 11, 42, and 61 made true in the flesh of Jesus,

    Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath SENT ME to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    THE WORD also made true in the flesh spoken below,

    Acts 10:36 The WORD which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who WENT about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

    Berean, God SENT JESUS out into the world upon his anointing of the Spirit, where he was begotten of that Spirit without measure, this is God’s WORD spoken by Isaiah made true in the flesh. The people beheld the glory of Jesus of Nazareth who was anointed with the Holy Spirit and with power. As said also in Luke 4, Jesus “left the river Jordan having been FILLED with the Spirit”, the Spirit that is full of grace and truth, as Jesus the son of Jesse was promised to receive the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD.

    The people beheld the glory of the anointed Jesus, the Son of Man begotten by God that CAME being sent down from heaven/directly down from God according to His will and by His WORD given in prophecy, in order to save that which was lost. 

    Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he BECAME the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    God sent Jesus upon him being begotten of God’s anointing Spirit, this is the only begotten Son who was SENT, and upon God perfecting him through suffering he gave him over unto death as a lamb that remained through testing without spot or blemish.

    That which God gave to set us free was a man who could do nothing of himself, only by God’s Spirit upon him did we have an obedient lamb that remained without spot or blemish, for God’s WORD was that He would hold this man’s hand and keep him to GIVE him for a covenant for the people.

     

    June 30, 2020 at 5:17 am#864700
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU:

    JESUS IS THE DIVINE SON OF GOD

    JOHN5[18] Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

    ME: Let’s look at what the text goes onto say,

    17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them,Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

    God and the Son are equal/agree together BECAUSE Jesus does that which the Father teaches him to do. They agree as one because Jesus is OBEDIENT. They agree together as one because God’s Spirit is upon Jesus directing all his ways, sending him out for him to follow not his own will but the Father’s will, to do the Father’s work. Without the Father Jesus can do nothing of himself.

    Jesus is a divine Son because God’s divine Spirit came to rest upon him without measure so that he could be sent to do God’s work.

    June 30, 2020 at 5:47 am#864701
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    I was just reading your point to LU, about how it was the Jews false perception that Jesus had actually broke the Sabbath commandment, very good point. So I also see your point that if the author was again giving the Pharisees perception, we don’t take their perception as true.

    Now certainly if the Pharisees believed that to be a Son of God meant that you were yourself God, one would most definitely be in major error to apply that perception as holding any truth.

    One only has to keep reading to see how it is that Jesus sees himself as a Son of God, as a child who obeys his Father’s instruction, as a Son who follows not his own will but his Father’s, a Son who can do nothing of himself.

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