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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • April 27, 2020 at 2:00 pm#863442
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for prompting me to a particular bible study today.

    Before I get back to John 17 in my next post I want to give my understanding that one has to be born of water and of the Spirit to enter into God’s kingdom with eternal life.

    God’s purpose is to be ALL IN all.

    It is by God’s Spirit in full measure that a man is kept from all sin, and if a man through God’s Spirit is being caused by that Spirit to walk in all His ways, then there is no penalty of death, there is only life eternal.

    The Spirit and Eternal life thus go hand in hand, if you don’t have the fullness of God’s Spirit, Him being all in, then you don’t have eternal life. God has forgiven our sins through Christ so that we may have access to that full measure of the Spirit.

    When I read the word of the promise of eternal life, to me that equates to a promise of having the fullness of God’s Spirit dwelling within my spirit, God all in.

    April 27, 2020 at 2:58 pm#863445
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    I have a post prepared for you with scriptures, but I really think I just want to ask you a question first now that I think about it.

    Would you say that the below statements are true,

    You can have an inheritance but not actually have yet that which you are to inherit from the inheritance.

    Sometimes to receive that which you are to inherit from the inheritance that has been given to you, you must fulfill certain criteria first.

    When you believe you are at the near point of reaching that criteria you may find yourself giving acknowledgement to the person who gave you the inheritance and telling them that it’s near time that you receive it.

     

     

    April 27, 2020 at 8:15 pm#863452
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: This is clearly not the glory he was asking God to return him to in his prayer, and we know this from verse 24…

    Father, I want those you have given me to be with me

    where I am,

    and to see my glory,

    the glory you have given me (PRESENT PERFECT TENSE, AN ACTION INITIATED IN THE PAST,  PRE-EXISTENCE OF JESUS) 

    (WELL CLEAR HEREUNDER:)

    because you loved me before the creation of the world.

     

    MIKE,  TELL JODI, WHERE JESUS WAS IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME JESUS 

    DECLARED HE IS?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    April 28, 2020 at 2:45 am#863455
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Lu,

    YOU:

    Jodi said: Mike, I can rightfully ask God for the glory that I had of God before the world was, just as Jesus did.
    Jodi would not have the opportunity to ask God for glory of any kind before the world was because she wouldn’t have even existed with or without glory apart from the Son’s existence. If not for the Son none of us would be here longing for glory of any kind.

    ME:

    2 Timothy 1: 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also GLORFIED. 

    1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be THE GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to HIS abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    LU, God GAVE an inheritance to whom He foreknew, an inheritance in Christ BEFORE the WORLD BEGAN, justification and GLORY with eternal life, was given. 

    I did not have to exist in order for our All Knowing God and Father to give me an inheritance, as said, He foreknew and predestined people.  I can have an inheritance be given to me before I am even born, and have it be reserved for me to receive. 

    Have you ever heard the expression “well I have it, it’s just not with me at the moment” or “I have it, it’s just not on me at the moment”?

    When your mom sends you a present in the mail that present IS yours, you don’t have it yet, but it is yours all the same, it has been given to you.

    I have hope, I anxiously await having FAITH that I am going to receive my inheritance. God wanted to make sure that we know that such an inheritance was given to us by His foreknowledge, even before the world began. 

    So knowing and believing in the direct truth given in scripture, I can most certainly ask God to give me the glory which I had from Him before the world began. 

     

    April 28, 2020 at 3:55 am#863458
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jodi,

    To have the hope that you will receive an inheritance, you have to believe in the Son of God which you clearly do not.

    1 John 5 10Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within him; whoever does not believe God has made Him out to be a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given about His Son. 11And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.…

    April 28, 2020 at 4:47 am#863460
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Irenaeus says, regarding the Word of God:

    And again Moses tells how the Son of God drew near to hold converse with Abraham: And God appeared unto him by the oak of Mamre in the middle of the day. And looking up with his eyes he beheld, and, lo, three men stood over against him. And he bowed himself down to the earth, and said: Lord, if indeed I have found favour in thy sight. And all that which follows he spake with the Lord, and the Lord spake with him. Now two of the three were angels; but one was the Son of God, with whom also Abraham spake, pleading on behalf of the men of Sodom, that they should not perish if at least ten righteous should be found there. And, whilst these were speaking, the two angels entered into Sodom, and Lot received them. And then the Scripture says: And the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven: that is to say, the Son, who spake with Abraham, being Lord, received power to punish the men of Sodom from the Lord out of heaven, even from the Father who rules over all.115 So Abraham was a prophet and saw things to come, which were to take place in human form even the Son of God, that He should speak with men and eat with them, and then should bring in the judgment from the Father, having received from Him who rules over all the power to punish the men of Sodom. And Jacob, when he went into Mesopotamia, saw Him in a dream, standing upon the ladder, that is the tree which was set up from earth to heaven;116 for thereby they that believe on Him go up to the heavens. For His sufferings are our ascension on high. And all such visions point to the Son of God, speaking with men and being in their midst. For it was not the Father of all, who is not seen by the world, the Maker of all who has said: Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me, or what is the place of my rest? and who comprehendeth the earth with his hand, and with his span the heaven117—it was not He that came and stood in a very small space and spake with Abraham; but the Word of God, who was ever with mankind, and made known beforehand what should come to pass in the future, and taught men the things of God. He it is who spake with Moses in the bush, and said: Seeing have I seen the affliction of my people that is in Egypt; and I am come down to deliver them. He it is who came forth and came down for the deliverance of the oppressed, bringing us out from the power of the Egyptians, that is, from all idolatry and impiety; and delivering us from the Red Sea, that is, delivering us from the deadly confusion of the Gentiles and the grievous vexation of their blasphemy. For in them the Word of God prepared and rehearsed beforehand the things concerning us. Then He set forth in types beforehand that which was to be; how in very truth He has brought us out from the cruel service of the Gentiles, and a stream of water in the desert has He made to flow forth in abundance from a rock; and that rock is Himself; and has given twelve fountains, that is, the teaching of the twelve apostles. And the obstinate unbelievers He brought to an end and consumed in the wilderness; but those who believed on Him, and in malice were children,118 He made to enter into the inheritance of the fathers; whom not Moses, but Jesus puts in possession of the heritage:119 who also delivers us from Amalek by the expansion of His hands,120 and brings us to the kingdom of the Father. So then the Father is Lord and the Son is Lord,121 and the Father is God and the Son is God; for that which is begotten of God is God.122 And so in the substance and power of His being there is shown forth one God; but there is also according to the economy of our redemption both Son and Father. Because to created things the Father of all is invisible and unapproachable,123 therefore those who are to draw near to God must have their access to the Father through the Son. And yet more plainly and evidently does David speak concerning the Father and the Son as follows: Thy throne, O God is for ever and ever: thou hast loved righteousness and hated unrighteousness:124 therefore God hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    From here: The Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching: An Early Christian Writing; page 32 Kindle version.

    https://www.amazon.com/s?k=The+Demonstration+of+the+Apostolic+Preaching%3A+An+Early+Christian+Writing&ref=nb_sb_noss

    April 28, 2020 at 5:11 am#863461
    carmel
    Participant

    HI Mike,

    YOU: No he’s not.  But if he was, then your doctrine is in trouble.

    How can a single word someone spoke be greater than the one who spoke that word?

    ME: Again Mike, YOUR HUMAN REASONING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD’S REASONING.

    YOU, GENE, and JODI PUT GOD INTO

    THE SAME BASKET OF HUMANS, HIS MERE CREATURES.

    Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

    9For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.

    whether you believe it or not it’s not my problem. But

    ALLOW ME MIKE PLEASE IN FULL HUMILITY TO REVEAL  A SPECK OF GOD’S MYSTERIES.

    REVEALED IN THE PAST, AND STILL BEING REVEALED EVEN NOW AS GOD PLEASES BY THE PARACLETE!

    John 14: 16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever: 17The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him. But you shall know him; because he shall abide with you and shall be in you.

    John16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you. 14He shall glorify me: because he shall receive of mine and shall shew it to you. 15All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine. Therefore I said that he shall receive of me and shew it to you.

    HUMAN WORD/S HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD’S WORD/S.

    GOD’S ENTIRE WORDS, SPOKEN AND STILL TO BE SPOKEN ARE

    SPIRITS.

    John 6:63The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and

    LIFE

    infinitesimal spirits, which no microscope could be invented in order to be

    DETECTED.

    EQUIVALENT SPIRITS REGARDING HIS DIVINE WORDS, : AD INTRA 

    SEPARATED FROM CREATED SPIRITS: AD EXTRA  but at the same time ONE SUBSTANCE! ATTENTION MIKE: SIMPLY AS

    IN WHOSE SPIRITS THERE IS, THEIR LIFE! John6:63 above.

    “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of  Man, THE BEGINNING! 

    THE ONLY SPIRIT/MEDIATOR between God’s ELEMENT and His creatures’ element.

    NOW IN “THE WORD” AS AN INFINITESIMAL SPIRIT, MIKE, there is 

    GOD THE FATHER, THE SOURCE! PROTECTED! SHIELDED! BY “THE WORD” Jesus.

    NOW, ONLY WITHIN THIS SUPER SPIRIT “THE WORD” GOD THE FATHER FUNCTIONS!

    HE CANNOT FUNCTION ON HIS OWN! NOT POSSIBLE OR ELSE HE COULD BE CONTAMINATED!

    https://www.lexico.com/

    AD INTRA

    ADVERB
    With reference to an action or characteristic of God which is not communicable to the world beyond the Persons of the Trinity. Also more generally: with effect or result only in one’s own mind, self, etc. (rather than in the outside world); within, internally. Opposed to ad extra .
    ADJECTIVE
    Designating an action or characteristic of God that is not communicable beyond the Persons of the Trinity. Also more generally: designating an action that does not have an effect or result in the outside world; imperceptible, internal, interior. Opposed to ad extra .
    Origin
    Early 17th century; earliest use found in John Boys (d. 1625), dean of Canterbury. From post-classical Latin ad intra towards the inside from classical Latin ad to, towards + intrā.

    AD EXTRA

    ADVERB
    With effect or result in the outside world (as opposed to one’s own mind, self, etc.); in the world at large; externally, perceivably; especially with reference to an action or characteristic of God which is communicable to the world beyond the Persons of the Trinity. Opposed to ad intra .
    ADJECTIVE
    Designating an action that has an effect or result in the outside world; exteriorized, perceivable, external; designating or relating to an action or characteristic of God which is communicable beyond the Persons of the Trinity. Opposed to ad intra .
    Origin
    Early 17th century; earliest use found in Thomas Morton (d. ?1647), colonist in America. From post-classical Latin ad extra towards the outside from classical Latin ad to, towards + extrā.

     Cheers.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 28, 2020 at 7:49 am#863466
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi and Gene,

    There is not a single man (100 percent human)
    who has not sinned and is not deprived of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) and who does not fundamentally need the Lord Jesus to hope one day to inherit eternal life.
    This is why a hundred percent human Jesus makes him a person who needs a savior.
    The Bible is formal, salvation came from above through the only begotten Son of God who was made flesh and who dwelt among us full of grace and truth.

    WHO, BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD, THOUGHT IT NOT ROBBERY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD:
    [7] BUT MADE HIMSELF OF NO REPUTATION, AND TOOK UPON HIM THE FORM OF A SERVANT, AND WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN:
    [8] AND BEING FOUND IN FASHION AS A MAN, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF, AND BECAME OBEDIENT UNTO DEATH, EVEN THE DEATH OF THE CROSS.
    Jesus was in the form of God…. and  He took upon him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men

    FORM OF GOD ……………….FORM OF MAN’S SERVANT

    This is not a Babylonian mystery religion teaching but a part of the pure and simple truth of the eternal Gospel.

    April 28, 2020 at 10:06 am#863472
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..Your wrong JESUS IS 100% human and was without sin. SEE that your problem you do n I t see a 100% human being living without sin. You see a GOD LIVING “DESGUISED” AS A HUMAN.  In that sense you are denying Jesus was,   and still is a “flesh” human.  what did  John say, “about people who do that? ‘” whosoever that deny’s Christ (the anointed one) as comming in the “flesh” IS a  ANTICHRIST .  let’s slow that statement down a little,  now why would JOHN say that the person who denies Jesus (the anointed one) is ANTI-CHRISTO’S  ( meaning against his Anointing)?   Think about that a minuite please,  a human being has to become anointed inorder to do the will of GOD,  BECAUSE IT TAKES THE “SPIRIT” OF GOD TO GUIDE HIM.  IT “MUST” THEREFORE BE “IN” HIM TO DO GOD’S WILL. 

    So understanding that then if we say AS YOU PEOPLE DO M that Jesus is GOD, THEN PLEASE TELL US WHY DID HE HAVE TO BE ANOINTED BY God inorder to do the will of GOD..  SO IF I SAY JESUS WAS ALREADY A God before he came to this earth and was God on this earth , I am denying the “nissesity of him having to be “Anointed” by God the Father, reason being,  he was already GOD , AND A GOD IN THE FLESH DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ANOINTED BY ANYONE.  

    The word Anitchrist is not against the man Jesus himself, it’s the anointing of the man. So when you deny him being 100% flesh, by saying he was a God, that makes you a Antichrist.  Did you follow that Berean?  If not I will try to explain it clearer for you.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

    April 28, 2020 at 10:09 am#863473
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: You are very confused, Carmel…

    Not “God the son”, but “the son OF God”.  Big difference.

    ME: Mike the SON OF GOD IS 

    GODMAN on earth!

    GOD THE SON

    1John 5:20 And we know that

    the Son of God is come.

    And he hath given us understanding that we may know

    the true God and

    may be in his

    true Son.

    This is the true God and life eternal.

     

    YOU: Galatians 4:7 isn’t about Jesus.

    Galatians4:1As long as the heir is a child, (LIKE JESUS WAS) he differeth nothing from a servant,( LIKE JESUS WAS)  though he be lord of all, ( LIKE JESUS WAS/IS)

    2But is under tutors and governors ( LIKE JESUS WAS as a spirit slain like a lamb from the beginning of the world Rev.13:8) until the time appointed by the father. (WHEN THE FATHER SENT JESUS INTO THE WORLD  AS MAN)

     

    3So we also,(LIKE JESUS)

    when we were children, were serving under the elements of the world. (CARRIERS OF SATAN AND HIS DEMONS

      Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness and hath translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, )

     

    4But when the fulness of the time was come,

    God sent his Son, MADE of a woman, MADE under the law:

    (NEITHER SUBJECT TO THE WOMAN, NOR TO THE LAW, as the woman was created by HIM, AS A SPIRIT IN HER HEART

    and the law was made by HIM AS A SPIRIT, THE FINGER OF GOD THE SERVANT, Luke 11:20)

     

    5That he( JESUS)  might redeem them who were under the law: that we might receive

    the adoption of sons. (SINCE JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD/GOD THE SON)

    6And because you are sons, ( IN THE SAME WAY JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD/GOD THE SON)

    God hath sent

    the Spirit of his Son (JESUS “THE WORD” James 1:21) into your hearts,

    crying: Abba, Father. (JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD/

    GOD THE SON, BOTH the Holy Ghost and “THE WORD” UNITED as ONE John4:36-37)

    Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which

    THE HOLY GHOST hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased

    WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

    (JESUS CHRIST, ONE SPIRIT, ONE GOD, ONE FATHER:

    of humanity purchased created ANEW, by His own blood,)

    Ephesians 4:1I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called: 2With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. 3Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit( CHRIST’S) in the bond of peace. 4One body and one Spirit: (CHRIST’S)as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5One Lord,(CHRIST’S) one faith, one baptism.

    6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

    (JESUS CHRIST Isaiah 9:6)

    7But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of

    Christ.

    Galatians 4:7 Therefore, now he (LIKE CHRIST IS)is not a servant, but a son. ( like Jesus) And if a son, an heir also through God. ( IN JESUS CHRIST THE TRUE GOD ON EARTH)

    NOT IN GOD THE FATHER AS THE FATHER NEVER DIED!

    YOU: Paul is talking about believers undertaking a new and

    better relationship (WRONG MIKE WE NEVER HAD ANY RELATIONSHIP)  with God. (WE WERE SATANICLY RELATED)

    YOU:   It was about us( DEVILS IN FLESH) being “promoted” ( NO, RECREATED Hebrews1:10-12, ON THE CROSS AND PURCHASED acts 20:28) from simple slaves (WE WERE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, BUT  DEAD CREATURES)  to actual spiritual sons (NEVER SEEN IT IN SCRIPTURES,  CHILDREN)  of God. (IN ONE SAME FATHER, IN ONE SAME BLOOD IN CHRIST, Jeremiah  32:39 -41)

    YOU:Jesus was (IS) a spiritual(THE) son of God (HIS ESSENCE, GOD CAN MULTIPLY HIMSELF AS MUCH AS HE WANTS! WITHOUT DIMINISHING HIMSELF. JESUS IS THE ACTUAL SPIRIT OF GOD, of the Holy Ghost, Genesis 1:2, John 6:49)

    YOU: from the moment God created him (LIES MIKE, “THE WORD” Jesus, IS ETERNALLY IN GOD THE FATHER and Vice Versa)

    YOU: as the first of His works.( PRE-EXISTED BEFORE THE BEGINNING ETERNALLY WITH THE FATHER Colossians 1:15-20)

    YOU: Jesus didn’t need to get promoted to “spiritual son of God” ( WHERE IN SCRIPTURE EXISTS THIS TERM MIKE  it is your INVENTION, YOUR FABLES, JESUS IS ETERNALLY A SPIRIT, EVEN WHEN HE WAS MADE FLESH. He was made flesh because HE EMPTIED HIMSELF OF HIS SPIRIT, BECAME POOR, and ENRICHED US with his spirit, OUR ETERNAL LIFE )

    YOU: And even as “spiritual sons of God”,

    we  ( WHO ARE WE MIKE? WE WERE DEVILS IN FLESH, NOT EVEN A PEOPLE 1Peter 2:10)

    John15:4 Abide in me: and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine,

    so neither can you, unless you abide in me. (NOT IN THE FATHER, WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FATHER UNLESS IN JESUS CHRIST, OUR FATHER, John20:17, John17:23)

    5I am the vine: you the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit:

    for without me you can do nothing. (absolutely nothing, bye, bye Father.)

    6If anyone abides not in me,

    he shall be cast forth as a branch and shall wither: and they shall gather him up and

    cast him into the fire: and he burneth. 

    1John1:3 That which we have seen and have heard, we declare unto you: that you also may have fellowship with us and

    our fellowship may be with the

    Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 

    YOU: we and Jesus will always still be servants of our God. ( YOUR CARNAL MENTALITY MIKE. WE HAVE A SPECK OF JESUS IN US IN ORDER FOR THE FATHER TO ACCEPT US AS HIS CHILDREN, JESUS ENRICHED US WITH HIS SPIRIT,  )

    YOU: Case in point: the prayer in Acts 4 was AFTER Jesus was raised to the right hand of his and our God,(THE FATHER IS NOT OUR GOD EXCEPT IN JESUS CHRIST JOHN17:23, John 20:17)  and AFTER he had been given a

    ton of power and authority

    ME:(YOUR HEAD IS BURIED IN THE SAND MIKE)

    Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying:

    All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.

    YOU: BY his and our God. (IN JESUS CHRIST) Yet they still called him God’s holy servant, right?

    WHERE MIKE? WHICH SCRIPTURE?

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 28, 2020 at 10:11 am#863474
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    I started a new thread to discuss Philippians 2, I hope you will post on it there.

    YOU:This is why a hundred percent human Jesus makes him a person who needs a savior.
    The Bible is formal, salvation came from above through the only begotten Son of God who was made flesh and who dwelt among us full of grace and truth.

    ME: Jesus DIED Berean and he needed God to SAVE him from his death. He was resurrected by his God and our God. 

    OUR ONE GOD THE FATHER is our savior through the Anointed Son of Man Jesus. 

    Put some simple scriptures together.

    First of all, Isaiah 61 IS God’s word made true in the flesh of Jesus. The Spirit rested upon Jesus, AN ANOINTING and he was SENT out TO specifically set us at liberty. He was given the Spirit so that he could set us at liberty.

    God called Jesus to righteousness, He held his hand and kept him for to be a light, to fulfill God’s covenant, which that covenant was God’s promise of salvation and eternal life, of which He promised before the world began.

    Jesus the ANOINTED IS the Son of God, and at the moment he was anointed with the Spirit God declared this Anointed Jesus to be His Son, THEN we see that is WHEN THIS SON IS SENT, and he is sent to set us at liberty. 

    YOU:the only begotten Son of God who was made flesh and who dwelt among us full of grace and truth.

    ME: That is not scripture Berean. It is Jesus the Anointed who was called the only begotten Son of God and the Anointed one came to us in the flesh. He received the Spirit not by measure, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD. JESUS who was ANOINTED was FILLED with grace and truth as he was said to leave the river Jordan having been FILLED with the Spirit. 

    April 28, 2020 at 10:22 am#863475
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You have it wrong, it doesn’t add up at all what you say.

    Can you agree that Isaiah 61 is God’s word made true in the flesh?

    Can you agree that Jesus said that he could do nothing of himself?

    Can you agree that it is by the Spirit upon him that he is sent out to set us at liberty?

    Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    The Anointed Jesus is sent to set us at liberty Berean, and he came to us FROM GOD/DOWN FROM HEAVEN. It just so happens that this Anointed Jesus at his anointing at the river Jordan God declares him to be His Son, and it just so happens that it is this Anointed Jesus who is said to BE God’s Son, and it just so happens that this is WHEN we see Jesus being SENT.

    April 28, 2020 at 1:00 pm#863476
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi…..you have it right.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    April 28, 2020 at 10:21 pm#863480
    Ed J
    Participant

    Berean…..Your wrong JESUS IS 100% human and was without sin.

    Hi Gene,

    (Matthew 1:18 / Matthew 1:20 / Luke 1:35) (Luke 10:30-37)

    Jesus lineage explained

    “Son of Man”: 25%; Mary’s mother’s lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
    “Son of Man”: 25%: Mary’s father’s lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
    “Son of God”: 50%: Jesus’ Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)

    At birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
    At baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)

    Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…

    ……………….Mother……….Father
    ………………..Mary………HolySpirit
    …………………50%…………50%
    ……………………\……………/
    ……………………..\………../
    ………………………..Jesus
    ………………………./…….\
    ……………………./…………\
    …………………../…………….\
    ……….Son of Man…….Son of God
    ………..(Mark 6:3)……..(Luke 1:35)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    April 28, 2020 at 10:30 pm#863481
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Jodi and Gene,

    There is not a single man (100 percent human)
    who has not sinned and is not deprived of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) and who does not fundamentally need the Lord Jesus to hope one day to inherit eternal life.

    Hi Berean,

    Gene is blinded to this.

    But what do you expect, Gene doesn’t have a “Free Will”

    Just ask him

    April 29, 2020 at 2:15 am#863482
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean,  what do you do with the geology of Jesus given in Luke 3:23-38,  have you thrown it out of your bible?  It not only shows Jesus through the linkage of King David, but also calls Adam the “son of God”.  No scripture say what you have posted, that just another “trinitarian” teaching that has not true scripture SUPPORT.  That the problem Berean, we are supposed to us our scriptures to SUPPORT our belifes, not some churches SUPOSITIONS derived by the triditions of men.  

    Jesus said clearly he was the  root and off spring, of King David. he did not say he was “half” the offspring of King David now did he?, you seen to think being called a Son of God somehow makes you not a 100% human being. That is completely a false concept,  Adam was not half human and half God, when he was called the “son of God”,  we are not half human and haf God  either , where scriptures says, “now we are the sons of God”. 

    I notice you are getting more and more away from scripture support for your teachings, and going more and more toward what trinitarian concept are, without textual support. Please use scriptures as we do,   to support your teachings.  We have posted to you very clear textual support for what we are saying.

    Again we say Jesus was 100 % a flesh man who came into his “only” ever existence as a human being, who received the Holy Spirit after his baptizim,  and from there this  100% human being became a son of God, just like we do by recieving the Holy spirit into us also. When Jesus returns he still will be a “son of man” and a son of God, just like we,  who have the Spirit of God also are. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

     

     

     

    April 29, 2020 at 2:28 am#863483
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj…..Wrong again, JESUS IS A 100% HUMAN BEING AND NEVER SINNED.  He is what God the Father has in mind for us all , Jesus is the completed work of God for all humanity, he is what God had in mind at the very creation of man kind.

    As far as “free will” goes you believe you save yourself by your so-called free will choices, I believe it is GOD’S WILL THAT SAVES US, we will see who is right in the end.  Free will is a “OXYMORON ”  NONE EXISTS, all will are driven by influencing going on in the mind, including  yours nothing “free” about it.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    April 29, 2020 at 5:27 am#863490
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Seriously Gene,

    You asked Berean: Berean, what do you do with the geology of Jesus given in Luke 3:23-38, have you thrown it out of your bible?

    First of all, you mean genealogy, not geology. Second of all, Christians all over the world acknowledge the genealogy of Jesus as the son of created man which is different than how he is the only begotten son of God as the Firstborn over all creation, born before anything was made in heaven and on earth. Do you not understand the teaching of the incarnation of the Son, Gene?? He who eternally existed with his Father, was not a man. He was the same in nature as the Father, no difference in nature. In order for the Son to redeem sinful mankind, he who was not a man and did not have flesh, took on flesh and entered our world as a baby human through the womb of a virgin. That is the incarnation. He wasn’t to be born of a random person but a virgin and he was to be a descendant from the tribe of Judah, a son of David. The genealogy is very important to show that his ancestry, according to his humanity, was from the tribe of Judah and King David. Both genealogies confirm that.

    April 29, 2020 at 10:47 am#863505
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Edj,

    YOU: Jesus lineage explained

    ME: Jesus came in all things like His brethren but not SIN.

    His brethren are 100% HUMANS. NO?

    Now reflect:

    Adam was CREATED in the image and likeness of God. 100%MALE and 100% FEMALE, A LIVING SOUL in God’s terms!

    Now, Adam and his wife, INDIVIDUALLY  LIVING SOULS:

    1oo%MALE and 100%FEMALE in God’s terms, NO SEX YET, as God is androgynous, ON THEIR SIN, lost their

    1oo%MALE and 100%FEMALE in God’s terms; DIED and BECAME ONLY

    100%MAN, ADAM, and 100%WOMAN,  HIS WIFE  in Satan’s terms, WHICH MEANS

    TOTALLY SPIRITUALLY DEAD! They lost their GOD’S TERMS

    AS LIVING SOULS, 100% SOULS, and 100% FLESH INDIVIDUALLY, CHILDREN OF GOD, PLUS THEIR REPRODUCTIVE PROCESS IN HARMONY WITH GOD. WHICH MEANS  THEY LOST AS WELL

    THE SPIRIT OF GOD, AS BEFORE SIN THEY WERE

    SPIRIT, SOUL, and FLESH:  THE TRIUNE IMAGE OF GOD INDIVIDUALLY ALL

    ALIVE! Consequently ON THEIR SIN

    THEY LIVED ONLY IN SATAN’S TERMS, which means

     THEY CORRUPTED THEIR HOLY 100% IMMORTAL FLESH and

    THEY DESTROYED THEIR 100% SOULS DROWNED IN THE SUBSTANCE OF

    FLESH AND BLOOD, PLUS THEY LOST THE MOST VITAL

    THE SPIRIT OF GOD, and INHERITED ONLY 

    100% MORTAL FLESH, WITHOUT LIFE. TOTALLY DEAD, CURSED, and SATANIC. SIMPLY AS SATAN REIGNED

    totally spirit, soul and flesh IN THEM!

    Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: …..

    God is Just and Jesus said WHO IS NOT WITH ME IS AGAINST ME! Consequently, SINCE THEY REJECTED GOD’S WILL,

    God established Adam and his wife according to the process and will which PLEASED His enemy, UNFORTUNATELY, once Adam and his wife became God’s enemies! Hence: A CORRUPTED PROCESS IN 

    MAN, WOMAN, SEX, SIN, and DEATH,

    ALL ASSETS ATTRIBUTED TO SATAN

    THE FIVE WILLS OF LUCIFER IN Isaiah 14:12-14 

    ADAM and HIS WIFE DESPERATE FOR GOD’S MERCY; HE HIMSELF AS A REDEEMER IN JESUS!

    Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said:

    God will provide

    himself

    a victim for a holocaust,

    my son.

    So they went on together.

     THE FATHER and THE SON, ON THE CROSS!

    THUS  WE COME TO THE REDEEMER

    “THE WORD” made FLESH JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, 

    SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD IN 

    THE HEART OF ADAM, HIS WIFE, and SATAN! ALL OF STONE!

    LIGHT SHINES IN DARKNESS and darkness comprehended NOT;

    GOD HIDDEN IN THE HEART OF HIS SERVANT “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE,

    IN FULL CONTROL! 

    Isaiah 45: 15Verily thou art a hidden God, the God of Israel the saviour.

    16They are all confounded and ashamed: the forgers of errors are gone together into confusion.

    17Israel (LUCIFER’S SPIRIT IN THE HUMAN RACE THE LOST SHEEP)  is saved in the Lord with an eternal salvation:

    you (LUCIFER)shall not be confounded, and you shall not be ashamed forever and ever.

     

    JESUS WAS BORN IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN:

    ADAM and HIS WIFE BEFORE SIN, MALE, and FEMALE IN GOD’S TERMS, SOUL, and FLESH. 

    HUMANS WERE ONLY 100% FLESH; SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

     ATTENTION Edj, and ALL! ESPECIALLY,

    JODI, and GENE,

    JESUS WAS BORN:

    100% SOUL in the Holy Ghost,  THE DIVINE NATURE OF JESUS, ATTRIBUTED TO THE SON OF GOD  (THE MALE/WATER)

    100% FLESH in “THE WORD”  THE HUMAN NATURE OF JESUS.ATTRIBUTED TO THE SON OF MAN (THE FEMALE/FLESH)

    100% SPIRIT OF THE FATHER, (ON HIS CONCEPTION! ATTRIBUTED TO GOD!)

    1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world,

    but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 

    6This is he that came by WATER and BLOOD, ( MALE AND FEMALE, SOUL and FLESH) Jesus Christ: not by water only but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the truth.

    7And there are Three who give testimony in heaven,

    the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost.

    And these three are one.

    ( OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER JESUS CHRIST, ISAIAH9:6)

     

    Peace and Love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

    April 29, 2020 at 3:52 pm#863506
    Lightenup
    Participant

     

    Does this sound like anyone here?

    Saint Ignatius of Antioch: The Epistles, page 141

    If any one says there is one God, and also confesses Christ Jesus, but thinks the Lord to be a mere man, and not the only-begotten [931] God, and Wisdom, and the Word of God, and deems Him to consist merely of a soul and body, such an one is a serpent, that preaches deceit and error for the destruction of men.

     

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