Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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April 17, 2020 at 11:31 am#863044
Jodi
Participant
Hi LU,
YOU:Gene, you are not a son from God by reproductive process, you are from dirt, we all are. There is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. If you were a son like Jesus, he would not be an only begotten son.
ME: Jesus of Nazareth was the only mortal man begotten of God’s Spirit, who was then SENT to set us at liberty.
Now he is to be believed as the first begotten of the dead, the firstborn of many brethren, a ruler over the kings of the earth, where he sits on his father David’s throne according to the flesh where he is a Son according to the Spirit.
LU, Jesus is a HUMAN BEING that was raised up given the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit, the mercies of David where YHWH made him lord and Christ, and a king eternally.
Psalm 110:1 YHWH SAID unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 YHWH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Luke 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; …9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. 11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people..
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
LU, Jesus is not YHWH, he is the son of David who YHWH made into a lord, he is a human being that sits at God’s right hand as a first begotten of the dead.
In Psalms 110 YHWH is speaking of the rod of Jesse who is JESUS. You are told elsewhere that YHWH is ONE, there is no one else besides HIM.
David does not think that his son, who YHWH promised to make him into His own Son, is YHWH. David believes that Jesus is of the fruit of his loins and will sit on his old throne according to the flesh for all eternity, being a Son of God according to God’s anointing Spirit.

April 17, 2020 at 8:50 pm#863060
Berean
Participant
Hi jodi
Jesus said very clearly in John 6:
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not put out anyone who comes to me;
6:38 for I came down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.
Verse 38 TELLS US VERY CLEARLY THAT JESUS CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN…..
It is in the past time: I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN…
God bless
April 18, 2020 at 1:57 am#863063
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
Jesus said he was the Son of Man who has COME to save that which was lost.
You are told that of the seed of David God raised up according to a PROMISE a savior, Jesus.
Scripture says Christ hadn’t COME UNTIL AFTER John was baptizing.
Jesus tells us exactly WHEN he was SENT, which just so happens to be AFTER John was baptizing, and Jesus tells us exactly what he was SENT for, which included for him to PREACH God’s word. An anointed man was SENT to do the WORK of GOD.
Read what we learn in John 3, keeping in mind that Jesus IS the Son of Man who has come.
He whom God has SENT speaks the word of God for God has given him the Spirit not by measure.
A MAN can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven, meaning FROM GOD.
The Spirit came from heaven/from God resting upon the Son of Man.
He who cometh AFTER John, cometh from above/from God.
He that is of the earth, is earthly, and speaks earthly things.
He that cometh from heaven/from God is above all, and he speaks heavenly things BECAUSE he received the Spirit from heaven/from God.
Now recall the PROMISE of God, His word said that He would raise up a prophet from AMONG BRETHREN like Moses, and God would put His words in his mouth and those who believed in him would be saved.
The Son who the Father loves, is the Son of Man who was begotten by God’s Spirit not by measure who THEN GOD SENT out into the world. He came down from heaven, which means he came from God.
The people who received Jesus and his testimony, were receiving that which was given to them from heaven/from God.
BEREAN, just a few more things!!
God promised David’s son that He would be a Father unto his son, this son of David would be a savior. Below we read the Son brings forth eternal life.
Jesus IS God’s Son according to a promise. Jesus is God’s Son for having been begotten by God’s Spirit without measure.
This son of David was also promised by God to receive dominion over all the works of God’s hands, of which we read below. This son of David holds dominion sitting on his father David’s throne according to the flesh, where he is a Son of God according to the Spirit by his resurrection from the dead.
26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. 27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. 28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
April 18, 2020 at 3:08 am#863066
GeneBalthrop
Participant
Jodi…..they just do not get it. It simply has not been given them to understand, or they would clearly see. I took LU’s own words and applied what she said to us also, and what is her answer?, but was her conclusion ?, it applies to Jesus, but not us also. These people haven’t a clue what they are saying. The hundreds if not thousands of scriptures we have over and over shown them, the still can not see no understand them. This only prove what scripture say, “unless the LORD builds the house the weary builders build in vain”.
Your doing a fine Job Jodi, my God continue to bless you and keep you.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
April 18, 2020 at 4:44 am#863068
Berean
Participant
Gene and Jodi,
When Jesus says, while on earth:
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
It’s the TRUTH, IT COMES FROM HEAVEN
AND WHEN JESUS SAYS :
62] What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?
WHERE WAS JESUS BEFORE COMING ON EARTH ???
IN HEAVEN WITH THE FATHER AND GOOD ANGELS
Ephesians 4:10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.
Don’t run away from the simple Truth, be like little children
Believe what Jesus said;
God bless

April 18, 2020 at 5:48 am#863069
Lightenup
Participant
Gene,
What Jesus had within him before he became flesh and dwelt among us and even before anything was made in heaven or on earth, is illustrated in the analogy of the closed mitosis diagram. Man is not a continuation of that process. The only begotten Son of God who was born BEFORE creation and WHO made all things in heaven and on earth BEFORE he formed man out of dirt, then made man, that is what the analogy represents. The only begotten Son of God inherits the eternal essence (past) that existed in the fullness of God before the begetting. Never was there a time that the Son did not have that eternal essence. That eternal (past) nature from the One original living being goes through the asexual reproductive process and is therefore expressed within the Father AND the Son who are together, the fullness of God, not separately, and who never had a beginning to their essence, eternally existed. Look at the diagram that I put up and just dwell on that for a while till you get it.
Adam was not a continuation of that asexual reproductive process, btw. Adam was not born. He began as an adult human being with a beginning to his essence. For humans that did not pre-exist before their conception in their mother’s womb (which is every human aside from Jesus), in order for them to inherit eternal life, they must believe in and confess that Jesus is LORD (YHWH) of their life as in YHWH, the Lord of lords. That is something that you deny. Your false doctrine does not accept Jesus as the Son of God, a true divinely-biological son who contains the eternal essence of the fullness of God just as his Father does.
Philippians 2:10
That in The Name of Yeshua, every knee shall bow, which is in Heaven and in The Earth and which is under The Earth, 11And every tongue shall confess that Yeshua The Messiah is THE LORD JEHOVAH* to the glory of God his Father.
Hopeful, LU
April 18, 2020 at 6:10 am#863070
Lightenup
Participant
Hi Berean,
You said to Gene:
Jesus is called “THE WORD OF GOD” because IT IS FROM THE BEGINNING HE WHICH PRONOUNCES THE CREATIVE WORDS.
“LET THERE BE LIGHT”
he is the FATHER’S CREATING AGENT.
I have a different understanding of who said “let there be Light” on day one. I believe that it was the Father announcing the begetting of the Son who is the “firstborn over all creation.” The Son is after all, the Light of the world. I do not believe the begetting is the beginning of the Son’s existence since I believe the Son eternally existed in essence as well as the Father and I know you realize this.
I do agree that the Son is the Father’s skilled worker making all things in heaven and on earth. The only thing “created” on day one was time and possibly the kingdom of darkness. I don’t believe that light was created on day one but it was begotten and announced. The Light of God and the kingdom of Light has always existed.
God bless, LU
April 18, 2020 at 6:17 am#863071
Lightenup
Participant
Jodi,
You said:
Jesus of Nazareth was the only mortal man begotten of God’s Spirit, who was then SENT to set us at liberty.
Can you show me the phrase “begotten of God’s Spirit” anywhere in the scriptures…anywhere?
Hopeful, LU
April 18, 2020 at 7:51 am#863072
Jodi
Participant
Hi LU,
You said to Gene:
Philippians 2:10
That in The Name of Yeshua, every knee shall bow, which is in Heaven and in The Earth and which is under The Earth, 11And every tongue shall confess that Yeshua The Messiah is THE LORD JEHOVAH* to the glory of God his Father.
ME: LU you deny some very clear basic stuff, and go off on a theory not only not substantiated at all in scripture but is absolutely against scripture. The passage below says lord not lord Jehovah -you added that in.
Phil 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Acts 2 below quotes Psalms 110 “1 YHWH said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 YHWH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
the rod is identified as Jesse’s son, the father of David.
The lord (master) in Psalms 110 is not YHWH, he is a servant who sits at YHWH’s right hand. YHWH says “there is none else, there is no God beside me…there is none beside me. I am YHWH, and there is none else.
You are in total denial of what Acts 2 tells you
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the PROMISE of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, YHWH said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that SAME JESUS, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Luke 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
LU, who Jesus is and is not is made clear in the above as well as confirmed here below,
Romans 1: 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, which He had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was MADE OF the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, ACCORDING TO the Spirit of holiness, BY THE resurrection from the dead:
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.
There is NO begotten Son as to what you speak LU, you just flat out ignore scripture.
Jesus is NOW a first begotten of the dead, said to be made of the root and offspring of David and declared to be God’s Son according to the Spirit of holiness.
April 18, 2020 at 8:42 am#863074
Berean
Participant
hi LU
ALL THINGS were made BY HIM; and WITHOUT HIM was not ANY THING made that was made.
On our earth, in the beginning, there was no
of light and God through THE WORD CREATED THE LIGHT
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD…
HIS TIME BEGINS AS IT BECOMES A SON
Just as the time of a human son begins when
IT IS BORN IN THIS WORLD
BUT HIS NATURE IS WITHOUT BEGINNING ….
THE SON WAS BORN ON THE DAYS OF ETERNITY PAST
AND WE DON’T KNOW HOW TO MEASURE THIS TIME …
SILENCE
BLESSINGS

April 18, 2020 at 8:51 am#863075
Berean
Participant

ABOVE ALL (Song)
God bless
April 18, 2020 at 10:29 am#863083
Lightenup
Participant
Hi Berean,
You don’t believe that life begins at conception for humans?
LU
April 18, 2020 at 10:32 am#863085
Lightenup
Participant
Jodi,
You said: The passage below says lord not lord Jehovah -you added that in.
That is how it is written in the Aramaic Bible.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Phil 2:10
9Because of this, God has also greatly exalted him and he has given him The Name which is greater than all names, 10That in The Name of Yeshua, every knee shall bow, which is in Heaven and in The Earth and which is under The Earth, 11And every tongue shall confess that Yeshua The Messiah is THE LORD JEHOVAH* to the glory of God his Father.
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/philippians/2.htm
April 18, 2020 at 10:48 am#863087
Proclaimer
Participant
What a screw up that is because the word is simply ‘kyrios’.
So if we say ‘kyrios’ means ‘THE LORD JEHOVAH’, then Matthew 18:26-27 says this:
So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ And THE LORD JEHOVAH of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
But what it actually says is this:
So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
Of course this is but one example as the word ‘kyrios’ references many men throughout the New Testament. Thus there would be many men who are also THE LORD JEHOVAH.
And given that other translations translate it simply as ‘lord’, then this is a fail.
April 18, 2020 at 11:10 am#863088
Lightenup
Participant
t8,
This is how Matt 18:26-27 is translated by the same Bible translation.
26And falling down, that servant worshiped him, and he said, “My Lord, be patient with me, and I shall pay you everything.” 27And the lord of that servant was moved with pity, and he released him, forgiving his debt.
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/matthew/18.htm
The Aramaic word is different so therefore it is translated different.
April 18, 2020 at 11:32 am#863089
Lightenup
Participant
t8,
You are also in denial of this one:
1 Cor 8:6
6To us, ours is one God The Father, for all things are from him and we are in him, and The One LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua The Messiah, for all things are by him, and we are also in his hand.
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/1_corinthians/8.htm
April 18, 2020 at 6:55 pm#863098
Proclaimer
Participant
I’m not buying it
All these instances cannot be referring to Yahweh of the Old Testament, and I doubt that any of them are. There is one God and the one between man and God. There is God and creation and between that is the Word. There is God and he created all things through Jesus Christ. We shouldn’t deny the uniqueness of the son of God, the only begotten. Some like to place him as God and some as a mere man. Both are wrong. He is uniquely between God and creation. He is the perfect vessel to also redeem creation back to God because of his position. God is too holy to fellowship with sin and God is not a man. But the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The agent by which God created the universe is also the agent by which God redeems creation.
April 19, 2020 at 2:58 am#863102
mikeboll64
Blocked
Jodi: The virgin birth was NOT a sign so that we would turn and equate Jesus to the likes of a PAGAN DEMIGOD.
The virgin birth was indeed a sign given by God through Isaiah. If Jesus being born on earth by a virgin mother who had never had sex makes YOU equate Jesus with a pagan demigod, then that is on you. All I can do is preach what the scriptures actually say. And those scriptures say that Jesus was mothered by Mary, and fathered by the Holy Spirit… not Joseph.
I’m way behind in the thread, but I’ll search to see if you’ve answered how Jesus himself could say that HE kept on having glory with/of/alongside God before the world began.
April 19, 2020 at 2:59 am#863103
mikeboll64
Blocked
Jodi: 16 And Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born (GENNAO) Jesus, who is called Christ.
Try it this way…
16 And Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born (GENNAO) Jesus, who is called Christ.
You place emphasis on Jesus being born of Joseph. In reality, it says that Joseph was the husband of Mary… of whom Jesus was born.
Get it? Jesus was born of Mary… who had as her husband Joseph. Not Jesus was born of Joseph.
It was SUPPOSED that Jesus was the son of Joseph, remember?
April 19, 2020 at 3:05 am#863104
mikeboll64
Blocked
Gene: Mike….. Jesus is not God the Fathers word…
No, Jesus is not any particular literal word that God speaks, or has spoken. He has as one of his many titles “The Word of God” because he is God’s main spokesman. He had this title when he was with God in the beginning, when he was on earth for 33 years, and when he returns on the white horse in the future.
Remember that the King of Abyssinia’s spokesman was called “The Word of the King”. This person wasn’t an actual word that the king spoke. He had the title “The Word of the King” because he was the king’s spokesman. It is the same with Jesus.
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