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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • April 15, 2020 at 5:58 am#862933
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean and All,

    Do you accept scripture that tells you WHEN Jesus was ANOINTED and SENT?

    Do you accept the WORD was made true in the flesh of Jesus, Isaiah 61?

    Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me TO preach the gospel to the poor; HE HATH SENT ME TO heal the brokenhearted, TO preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, TO set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 TO preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    Acts 10:37-39 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

    John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh (Isaiah 11, 42, 61), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

    Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached BEFORE HIS COMING the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

    BEFORE HIS COMING BEREAN.

    Jesus was not SENT until after his baptism. Jesus was not SENT until he had been begotten of the Father’s Spirit, being filled with grace and truth. 

    Acts 1:21-22 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, BEGINNING from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

    Acts 4:26-28 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you ANOINTED, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. 

    Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, A MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 

    Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man IS COME to save that which was lost.

    Our heavenly Father SENT a Son of Man into the world to save the lost, not any Son of Man, the ROD of JESSE of whom our Father ANOINTED, begetting him of the fullness of His Spirit. This man was SENT TO do the Father’s work, he did all that our Father commanded of him, doing it all in our Father’s name, as the Father was with him, holding his hand and keeping him for to be a light, for to fulfill our Father’s covenant (Isaiah 42). 

    Isaiah tells us that first you have a man in the flesh, the son of Jesse, and THEN our Father rests His Spirit upon him, an anointing, and THEN SENDS him out into the world TO SET US AT LIBERTY, a Son of Man being SENT to save that which was lost, the only mortal man begotten of God’s Spirit filled with grace and truth. 

     

     

    April 15, 2020 at 7:40 am#862937
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    YOU:

    Hi Jodi,

    Jesus taught that he was the Son of God and also the giver of eternal life. That alone would be considered “making himself equal with God.”

    ME: Jesus also taught that he is the Son of Man who is coming in his Father’s glory.

    Your not equal to someone when your glory comes from the glory of another and that others glory is all His own.

    You say the Son was in the form of God but gave it up to be in the likeness of a man, and then he returned to his previous glory.

    PROBLEM you have, the Son of God is still a human being, he is the root and offspring of David, and Paul tells us that our unity of faith is to believe that the Son of God is a perfect man.

    Also said is that Jesus Christ is the faithfull witness, the first begotten of the dead, and that the Son is a firstborn among many brethren. 

    LU, Jesus also said that he could do nothing of himself, this is still true when he returns, as it is the Spirit of the Father upon him where by he is able to judge and slay the wicked.

    The Father is perfect, the Son of God was MADE perfect learning obedience unto his Father, whereby that perfecting made him our source for eternal life.

    You are also told that according to a promise God raised up the seed of David for to be our savior.

    Jesus is our savior not through his will nor his power, but by his God and our God’s will and by his God and our God’s power. 

    THIS MAKES them FAR from equal. When one depends on the other for all things, that is not equality. 

     

    April 15, 2020 at 7:50 am#862939
    Berean
    Participant

     

    Hi jodi

    you

    “Our Father PROMISED (GIVEN HIS WORD) to rest his Spirit on the son of Jesse, where this man would be sent to speak the WORD of our Father and do the WORK of our Father.”

    Me

    One thing you ignore is that THE WORD WAS GOD

    When God speaks, his word is not God …

    John tells us that: “AT THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD

    WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD ”

    I repeat it to you IN THE VERY HOLY DIVINITY ONLY A PERSON CAN BE GOD AND BE THE GOD, IT IS THE FATHER

    AND ONLY THE SON OF GOD NAMED “THE WORD” IN JOHN 1 IS GOD AND MAN.

    God bless

    April 15, 2020 at 9:13 am#862941
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean….So you simply trash all the hundreds of scriptures to force your false assumptions, like 90 % of all Christanity does. Good luck with that your going to need it. But on thing for sure you and the others who go along with your teachings will be judged, for not applying all the scriptures me and Jodi have , “clearly” shown you all. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene

    April 15, 2020 at 9:38 am#862943
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You said …the Son of God is still a human being, he is the root and offspring of David

    As the root, he came before David as in the form of God, as the Son of God, who established the line of David.

    As the offspring, he came after David as in the form of man as the Son of Man.

    He was both, the Son of God AND the Son of Man. He wasn’t always and only the root of David and he wasn’t only the offspring of David.

    He was both, God as the Son of God, (the Lord of lords), and he also became human too and he will always be both natures, God and man forever.

     

     

     

     

    April 15, 2020 at 9:41 am#862946
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jodi,

    Please describe the qualities of a firstborn lamb at passover.

    LU

    April 15, 2020 at 8:37 pm#862983
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi jodi

    you

    “Our Father PROMISED (GIVEN HIS WORD) to rest his Spirit on the son of Jesse, where this man would be sent to speak the WORD of our Father and do the WORK of our Father.”

    Me

    One thing you ignore is that THE WORD WAS GOD

    When God speaks, his word is not God …

    His word (Law) is holy, just and good
    but is not God;

    John tells us that: “AT THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD

    WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD ”

    I repeat it to you IN THE VERY HOLY DIVINITY ONLY A PERSON CAN BE GOD AND BE THE GOD, IT IS THE FATHER

    AND ONLY THE SON OF GOD NAMED “THE WORD” IN JOHN 1 IS GOD AND MAN.

    April 16, 2020 at 1:44 am#862984
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean……The God’s word is God, the only reason it says “was” , is because John was speaking about something that “was ” in (the beginning ). GOD AND HIS WORD ARE ONE AND THE SAME THING. 

    This might help you,  is a word? , it is intellegent utterance.  GOD’S intellect is his words, just as your words show your intellence, so does GOD’S WORDS.   Trying to make God’s words a different person is pure stupidity, just another form of “mystery religion” , you people preach.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    April 16, 2020 at 2:03 am#862985
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    It is because you cannot see the Divinity of Jesus that you say that, and you come to deify words that God speaks … funny theology that does not come from God;

    REVELATION 19 UNVEILS MYSTERY

    [13] And he (Jesus)was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    WHO IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD ???

    JESUS CHRIST

    God bless

    April 16, 2020 at 3:58 am#862986
    Jodi
    Participant

    Berean,

    Gene is absolutely right and what you speak is absolute absurdity.

    Matthew 12: 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

    Berean, why do you suppose that by a person’s words they may be justified or condemned?

    YOUR words reflect your thoughts, your very character, and like Gene said, your intelligence or lack thereof.

    Your words reflect YOU, and a human can speak lies as well as speak the truth. Your words expose who you are, a liar or an honest person. Your WORDS ARE WHO YOU ARE.

    YHWH cannot lie, that which He speaks is always the TRUTH.

    By YHWH’S WORDS we know what the truth is!

    By YHWH’S WORDS we learn WHO HE IS and WHAT HIS INTENTIONS ARE. YHWH’S WORDS ARE WHO HE IS.

    The Word is TRUE, The Word is God for “GOD is TRUE“.

    Psalm 119:160 Thy WORD IS TRUE from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

    John 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that GOD IS TRUE.

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words OF God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not OF myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, HE doeth the works.

     

    April 16, 2020 at 5:12 am#862987
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean and All,

    What Gene and I ask is that you apply clear given truths from passages to other passages.

    I have asked this before, for people to APPLY prophecies directly to the chapter of John 1. 

    Long before John spoke God’s word, MOSES, DAVID and ISAIAH SPOKE God’s word. John speaks of Jesus with the same truth that Moses, David and Isaiah spoke. John specifically speaks of Moses and Isaiah, even quotes Isaiah’s word in his book.

    God’s word from the prophets we see DIRECTLY ALIGNS with that which John spoke. 

    April 16, 2020 at 5:24 am#862988
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi or Gene

    Find me verses which prove that “the words of God” are GOD because I know none.
    If that were the case, we would have known about these things for a long time.
    God has his church on earth, He guides and teaches it.
    The faith transmitted to the saints once and for all is established on the fact that Jesus is the only begotten begotten Son of the living God.
    He is the image of the living God (Colossians 1)
    A reflection of the glory of God and the very imprint of the PERSON OF GOD (Hebrews 1)
    It is THE SON OF GOD who is descended from heaven to do the will of his Father and not his own although he is God.

    THE SON OF GOD IS FROM HEAVEN

    JOHN
    6:38 for I came down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.
    6:46 Because no one has seen the Father except him who comes from God; that one saw the Father.

    YOU ARE LIKE THE JEWS WHO MURMURED ABOUT CHRIST, FROM WHERE IT COMED ….

    6:41 The Jews murmured about him, because he had said, I am the bread that came down from heaven.

    6:42 And they said, Is this not Jesus the son of Joseph, the one whose father and mother we know? How then does he say: I came down from heaven?

     How then does he say: I came down from heaven?

    THEY COULD NOT BELIEVE THAT JESUS ​​COMES FROM Heaven

    Yet Micah had prophesied

    And you, Bethlehem Ephrata, Little one among the thousands of Judah, From you will come for me He who rules over Israel, The origin of which goes back to ancient times, In the days of eternity.

    And whose origin goes back to ancient times, To the days of eternity.

    THE ORIGIN OF JESUS ​​BACK TO OLD DAYS, TO DAYS
    OF ETERNITY

    But the Jews, especially the heads of the nation, were confused when in the Messiah they expected, they wanted above all to be freed from the yoke of the Romans and not from the yoke of sin; and when Jesus appeared before them and he told them where he came from HEAVEN they could not believe. Some believed, but they were few in the time of Jesus ……… ……….

     

    April 16, 2020 at 7:53 am#862990
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi and all,

    John17:24 Father, I will that where I am, they also whom thou hast given me may be with me: that they may see my glory which thou hast given me, because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world.

    Jodi, Read the above scripture and discern the truth of

    THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF JESUS A SPIRIT BEING ETERNALLY  WITH THE FATHER

    He started this verse and said:

    I WILL THAT WHERE 

    I AM;  definitely ETERNALLY with the Father.

    Then in the above verse is used

    THE PRESENT PERFECT TENSE, 

     A TENSE WHICH IS USED WHEN AN ACTION IS INITIATED IN THE PAST AND CONTINUED TO THE PRESENT,

    Which confirms

    JESUS’ PRE-EXISTENCE

    Twice He said:

    YOU HAVE GIVEN ME….

    and once He said

    YOU HAVE LOVED ME before the creation of the world.

    Thus all the above is a clear reference to Jesus’ PRE-EXISTENCE 

     

    BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD.

     

    NOW THE WORLD WAS CREATED IN

    GENESIS 1:1 

    WHEN NOT EVEN THE SUN EXISTED!

    Well clear in

    Ecclesiastes 1:10 Nothing under the sun is new,

    neither is any man able to say: Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us.

    11There is no remembrance of former things: nor indeed of those things which hereafter are to come, shall there be any remembrance with them that shall be in the latter end.

    Now read this Jodi:

    Zephaniah 1: 7Be silent before the face of the Lord God: for the day of the Lord is near,

    for the Lord hath prepared a victim, (Jesus)

    he hath sanctified his guests.

    peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

    April 16, 2020 at 9:46 am#862991
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU: Find me verses which prove that “the words of God” are GOD because I know none.
    If that were the case, we would have known about these things for a long time.

    ME: Berean I am not following you at all, this is very bizarre to me. 

    You speak and people hear your words. People write and we read hearing their words.

    God spoke to the prophets and the prophets wrote down the words that God spoke. Those words were His, they came from Him, they were not the words of the prophets.

    Sometimes what you speak is in direct relation to who you are. If you speak lies you become a liar. If you speak sincere kindness you are kind. If I say I am hungry, it’s because I am hungry.

    Exodus 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

    If God says He is the God of Abraham, HE IS EXACTLY WHAT HIS WORD SAYS, HE IS THE GOD OF ABRAHAM!

    Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Seriously Berean, am I suppose to believe that this voice from heaven is Jesus speaking to himself?

    The Father gives PRAISE, those are HIS words reflecting His thoughts, His feelings towards His Son.

    Deut 18: 17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put MY WORDS in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 

    This is the LORD’S WORD made true in Jesus, for he is that prophet who the LORD said He would raise up to be a Prophet.

    This is the LORD’S WORD made true in Jesus for Jesus spoke all the WORDS of the LORD that the LORD commanded him to speak.

    The prophet is not the LORD, the prophet is going to speak the LORD’S words.

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words OF God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    God GIVING the SPIRIT FOR JESUS TO PREACH God’s WORD, is also God’s WORD (from Isaiah) made true in Jesus. 

    Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Here is another example of where we see the Father’s WORD, HIS PROMISE, is made true in Jesus.

    When Jesus received the Holy Spirit our Father’s WORD was made true in Jesus.

     

     

    April 16, 2020 at 10:05 am#862992
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    John 17:24 Father, I will that where I am, they also whom thou hast given me may be with me: that they may see my glory which thou hast given me, because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world.

    Of course the Father loved the Son of Man Jesus before the foundation of the world, by the Father’s determined purpose and foreknowledge His plan was to have ONE MAN bring righteousness and life through his blood to set us at liberty.  The Father had purposed this same man to sit on earth upon a throne of glory according to the flesh, even before the world began. 

    Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

    Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

    Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

    Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them,Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    April 16, 2020 at 11:52 am#862993
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN REFERENCE TO MY POST

    YOU: John 17:24 Father, I will that where

    ME: I AM (WHERE IS JESUS JODI ?)

    they also whom

    ME: YOU HAVE GIVEN ME (BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD)

    may be with me: that they may see

     MY GLORY  (ETERNALLY WITH THE FATHER)

    ME: WHICH YOU HAVE GIVEN ME( BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD)

     because

    ME: THOU HAVE LOVED ME BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD.

     

    As I explained  the tense is PRESENT PERFECT TENSE which clearly declares that all the above actions

    INITIATED IN THE PAST and continued in THE PRESENT UP TO THIS DAY

     

    JESUS PRE-EXISTED JODI!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 16, 2020 at 2:17 pm#862997
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Lu,

    YOU: Please describe the qualities of a firstborn lamb at passover.

    ME: I could not tell you anything about “firstborn lambs” at passover because the bible doesn’t mention anything about “firstborn lambs” at passover.

    “Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year”

    Male lambs of the first year in order to be sacrificed needed to be without spot or blemish.

    I am not sure what you are trying to get at.

    I will just go ahead and say,

    The Lamb of God is the son of Jesse who God rested His Spirit upon, giving him knowledge and fear of the LORD, raising him up in righteousness, directing all his ways for him to be a servant unto God fulfilling God’s covenant, God’s promise to forgive sins. God holds his hand and keeps him in the way to obey all of His commands. Jesus’s faith is tested going to the cross, where he learns OBEDIENCE through suffering and by such he is MADE perfect by God, thus becoming the Lamb of God, sacrificed unto death having remained without spot or blemish.  He is the man who God declared from the beginning who would execute God’s purpose. Because this man poured out his soul unto death being obedient to our Father without failure, our Father gives him a portion with the great, and ordains him to share the spoil (riches) with the strong upon giving them a righteous judgement, not by his own eyes and ears, but through his God and our God. He is resurrected receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit, given for all eternity, raised in power, raised in glory, raised a first begotten of the dead with many brethren to follow at his return.  

    John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; BECAUSE he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. God sends this Son of Man upon his calling to righteousness, to save that which was lost.

    Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;..5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 

    Isaiah 42: 1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

    Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things... 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

    Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

    Hebrew 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

    Recall, Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; BECAUSE he hath poured out his soul unto death:

     

    April 16, 2020 at 3:25 pm#862998
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    This is ridiculous.

    The truth given is wonderful and you just reject it because you want to make Jesus into the image of a COMPLETE PAGAN DEMIGOD as you have been corrupted by a doctrine of Christian “converts, not Christians at all actually, but false apostles who loved the likes of their own gods and the doctrines of their philosophers more than the words of the prophets. You follow false teachers who hated true God fearing Jews, false teachers who where vastly ignorant of our True God. These converts turned Jesus into a false image that was likened to their false gods, and you have fallen into their pit of darkness with their worthless theology.

    You are TOLD that Jesus IS a human being and that human being returns in our Father’s glory, which is the Spirit of our Father that dwells in him, having been given to him according to a promise when he rose from the dead.

    I gave you several scriptures that tell you EXACTLY what it is the people see, and it is glory upon a son of a HUMAN BEING, and their faith and hope is to be as he is.

    Your DENIAL is going to cause you to DENY the Son of Man when he returns in his glory to give the glory that he himself has to his brethren, some will even have the glory to be a king and a judge like him.

    John 17:24 Father, I will that where I am, they also whom thou hast given me may be with me: that they may see my glory which thou hast given me, because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world.

    John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

    Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    April 16, 2020 at 4:41 pm#862999
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    OF COURSE the Son of God is from heaven!! Where else would he be from, the WORLD? NO.

    Jesus said “I am NOT OF THIS WORLD AS YOU ARE NOT OF THIS WORLD“.

    Jesus was SENT FROM God. LIKEWISE John the Baptist was SENT FROM God. 

    If you are SENT FROM GOD, it means that you are COMING FROM WHERE EXACTLY?……

    ……………..FROM HEAVEN!

    Why do you suppose that the Kingdom OF Heaven and the Kingdom OF God, MEAN the SAME THING?

    That would be because that which is said to be from heaven or coming down from heaven is the same thing as coming from God. 

    When God declared from the beginning a promise not yet done to be fulfilled on earth, when it is fulfilled where is that fulfillment coming from????? It is COMING DOWN FROM HEAVEN, directly FROM GOD. 

    Jesus tells you that he is the bread from heaven and that bread IS HIS FLESH. It’s not any flesh, but the only mortal flesh to have received the full measure of God’s Spirit, which is God’s WORD told previously from heaven now coming down from heaven/from God to be fulfilled.

    God had said he would rest His Spirit upon the son of Jesse, AN ANOINTING, and then send that anointed begotten of the Spirit out into the world. When he comes into the world as the prophet having been raised up from among brethren to speak the word of God, he is not coming of his own will, he is coming from heaven/FROM GOD unto us, he is SENT to us down from heaven/down FROM GOD. 

    I already told you direct scripture of WHEN Jesus declares that he was SENT. 

    John the Baptist preached, “BEFORE HIS COMING”. Jesus COMES to the world upon his own baptism, where it just so happens that the Spirit descends upon him in full measure and God declared that “THIS is my beloved Son”, and then it just so happens we SEE THIS SON is SENT out into the world.

    And it just so happens that THIS anointed Jesus is said to be the son of David. And it just so happens that God’s word to us from heaven given to David concerning his son, was that God would make David’s son into His own Son.

    Oh my goodness, I’m not sure what to make of this all. Hmm..let’s think…..maybe it’s the FACT that God’s WORD IS ACTUALLY TRUE, that what He said was actually MADE TRUE in the FLESH of JESUS!

     

    April 16, 2020 at 6:24 pm#863000
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @carmel

    THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF JESUS A SPIRIT BEING ETERNALLY WITH THE FATHER

    Who is the oldest, the Father or the Son, or are they exactly the same age?

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