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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • April 11, 2020 at 11:31 am#862805
    Lightenup
    Participant

    t8

    Regarding this:

    LU said: t8, if the original living eternal One beget a Son asexually, then that original One manifests Himself as two at the moment the reproductive process began, in a father and a son. Both equally having the eternal nature of the original One.

    t8 asks: Are you saying the original God split into two equal parts or are you saying the original God begat another who is the Son and/or Word? Or something else. I remember in the past, you taught a binity a Godhead comprising two equal beings.

    If you study the asexual reproduction (which the begetting or birth is the last phase of) through binary fission, you can see that from one living organism going through asexual reproduction, the result is two equal living organisms.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/3BUAmZJWxUuc3CvR6

    April 11, 2020 at 11:56 am#862806
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Okay, so you are teaching that the one God split into two equal parts.

    But Jesus said: “The Father is greater than I”.

    April 11, 2020 at 3:22 pm#862811
    Berean
    Participant

    I think that the daughter cell is not a hundred percent identical to the mother cell that produced it. The daughter cell receives its own identity.
    The age of the daughter cell substance is identical to the age of the parent cell substance; but the age of the daughter cell is counted from the moment it is formed.
    I am reformulating for the age of the daughter cell.
    If we consider its substance, it is the same age as the substance of the mother cell. If we consider the birth of the daughter cell, there is a beginning … and therefore we count her age from the moment she is formed.

    What do you think?

     

    April 11, 2020 at 4:50 pm#862813
    Lightenup
    Participant

    T8 and Berean,

    I do appreciate your thinking through this with me. It’s important.

    The end result after asexual reproduction is two identical organisms with substance that is the same age in each. The difference, one beget the other which makes the begetter greater to the begotten. The one who beget is the Father, the one begotten is the son, the Firstborn of God over all creation who is the exact representation of his Father.

    He lives!

    LU

     

    April 11, 2020 at 7:22 pm#862815
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    So two identical gods except one is the begetter so edges out the begotten. Otherwise 2 gods. Is that it?

    April 11, 2020 at 7:27 pm#862816
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    For decades now in these forums, this topic always goes the same way. God is made up of more than one person.

    Some say two, some say three, I think one member even believes in 4 or even 5. When arguing about why their view is correct, they are all able to keep a straight face.

    The truth is God is one. One God, one identity, the Most High. If we understood the difference between identity and nature, then all the confusion goes away.

    God is God because he is the Father, not because he is divine. God actually shares this nature and those who receive divine nature are blessed, but they are not God and never will be. Divine nature doesn’t make you God.

    April 12, 2020 at 1:53 am#862820
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8……good post, I also agree with that. We have one and “only one”  God.  There is “only one mediator” between men and God “the man” Jesus Christ. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    April 12, 2020 at 2:29 am#862821
    Berean
    Participant

    T8

     

    For you who is “THE WORD”

    WHO WAS GOD…?

     

    God bless

    April 12, 2020 at 3:27 am#862823
    Lightenup
    Participant

    t8,

    t8 said: So two identical gods except one is the begetter so edges out the begotten. Otherwise 2 gods. Is that it?

    There is only one God alone and that one God is expressed as two persons together, not one person alone…a Father working out all things through his only begotten Son and for the Son who is identical to him in eternal nature, united in spirit. The Son made another person a father (your son made you a father, btw), the Son made another person, a creator (apart from the Son, nothing was made), the Son makes another person, a shepherd (the Son goes after the lost sheep and seeks to not lose any of those the Father has given to him), the Son makes another person, a Savior (apart from the work of the Son no man can be saved), the Son makes another person a redeemer (the Son paid the fee with his blood), the Son makes another person a judge (all judgement was given to the Son, one person judges through the another person, not apart from the Son). When one person does his work through another person, that makes two persons accomplishing the work, t8.

    I don’t know how anyone can think of God and worship God as only one person, apart from the Son when one person does all “God” things through another person who is the only begotten Son. Jehovah said that He alone created the heavens and the earth. We are also told that all things were created by one person through another person. Obviously there are more than one persons as Jehovah. Jehovah is the God of gods AND the Lord of lords and I believe that is not one person but two persons. Jesus is clearly called the Lord of lords in Revelation. 

    Rev 5;13

    And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, “To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the dominion forever and ever.”

    Once again…that “Lamb” IS CALLED “Lord of lords.”

    Rev 17:13 These kings have one purpose: to yield their power and authority to the beast. 14They will make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and He will be accompanied by His called and chosen and faithful ones.”

    As I understand it, the Father provides the vision and instruction, the Son carries out the vision and instruction and their spirits are united as the Holy Spirit.

    I do NOT express this understanding as a binity (that was how you labeled me, t8 and I have told you that numerable times) but as One Jehovah God expressed in the interdependent unity of Father and Son who are united in spirit which is referred to as the Holy Spirit of God.

    t8, from what you have shown all of us this past week,  during all this time on HN you haven’t realized that Jesus is called “Lord of lords.” But even after this was pointed out to you, you still minimize the Son to be only the first of many sons who the Father shares his nature with and not the Lord of lords you worship as Jehovah together with his Father. That says alot. It was you who quoted something about once a man is shown mistaken but does not change…how does that go, t8?

    He lives!

    Blessings, LU

    April 12, 2020 at 3:34 am#862824
    Jodi
    Participant

    Good Morning Berean,

    Peace upon you as well, thank you!

    My understanding from scripture is that there is One Almighty God who is our heavenly Father YHWH, and He is a God of gods, a Lord of lords, and most certainly a King of kings.

    The kingdom that we are to enter is our heavenly Father’s kingdom, He is the King over His Kingdom. 

    Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Matthew 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    Luke 11:2 And he said unto them,When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

    Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

    Jesus is a MAN who our heavenly Father makes into a king of kings who reigns on earth to fulfill our Father’s will, which is to destroy all enemies, and then our heavenly Father himself comes to dwell with us in His kingdom whereby He is all in all. 

    1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. …7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 

    RECALL, Jesus says those who follow the will of his Father are his brothers and sisters.

    RECALL, Romans 8:6 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together….29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 

    Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever…14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city….16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Psalm 24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 8 Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. 9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

    Isaiah 43:15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King. 16 Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters; 17 Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow. 18 Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. 19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. 20 The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, MY CHOSEN.

    Isaiah 49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. 2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. 4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God. 5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. 

    Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. ..6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a LIGHT of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. 

    Isaiah 45:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    Matthew 25:12-14 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. ..31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    Berean, as we are told, when all have received their inheritance, when the Son of Man, appointed as a king of kings, has all enemies destroyed and our heavenly Father is ALL IN ALL, He comes down to dwell in His KINGDOM with us, where He is most certainly our King of glory. This King of glory is YHWH, and this same YHWH gave us His WORD that the son of Jesse would receive YHWH’s glory whereby he is appointed a lord of lord’s to fulfill YHWH’s will, so that YHWH can come down from heaven and dwell with us.  

    April 12, 2020 at 4:50 am#862825
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    YOU:

    There is only one God alone and that one God is expressed as two persons together, not one person alone…a Father working out all things through his only begotten Son and for the Son

    I don’t know how anyone can think of God and worship God as only one person, apart from the Son when one person does all “God” things through another person who is the only begotten Son.

    ME: LU what do you do with the passage that says,

    Romans 8:6 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together….29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    and these,

    Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them LIGHT: and they shall reign for ever and ever…14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city….16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. ..6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a LIGHT of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

    THIS LORD who says that He gives His glory unto the son of Jesse, also says that there is none besides Him, that He ALONE is God.

    THIS LORD calls this son of Jesse to righteousness, He MAKES him for to be a LIGHT.

    LU please READ and RESPOND, 

    Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. 8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

    9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? 10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? 11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
    (the spacing wasn’t working)
    Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    LU, Jesus was raised from the dead a son of David being begotten by the LORD, a fulfillment of the LORD’s WORD, he is NOT the LORD. Jesus was raised receiving according to a promise the Holy Spirit, Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. The Son of God IS the firstborn of MANY, he is NOT the LORD or the Holy Spirit. JESUS was MADE by the LORD both a master and our Messiah, that SAME LORD who says there is no one else, NO GOD BESIDES HIM. 

    Romans 1:1-4 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was MADE of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    Do you see it LU? The LORD in Isaiah 45 is ONE GOD, HIS NAME is YHWH, there is NONE besides Him, THIS LORD is Jesus’s MAKER. YHWH didn’t MAKE  Jesus into the Holy Spirit, YHWH didn’t make Jesus YHWH.

    YHWH MADE Jesus to sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh, where He is a Son of YHWH, MADE a Son along with many brethren, according to the Spirit. 

    Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being MADE perfect, he BECAME the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    YHWH MADE Jesus perfect.

    YHWH MADE Jesus our author of eternal salvation.

    The ONE who is the MAKER says that HE ALONE is GOD, that there is NONE BESIDES HIM.

    YHWH MAKES the LIGHT and Jesus IS the root and offspring, the BRIGHT and morning STAR.  

     

    April 12, 2020 at 5:36 am#862826
    Berean
    Participant

     

     

    Hi Jodi

    Try to be shorter
    and just answer the question we ask you. ..
    For you it is YAHWEH the king of glory, I suppose the Father of Jesus !?
    But what event does psalm 24 announce?

    This king of glory enters through gates …
    gates of what?

    They are everlasting dors/ gates !!!

    Lift up your head, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
    [8] Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.
    [9] Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
    [10] Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

    God bless

    April 12, 2020 at 5:42 am#862827
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jodi,

    The name of our one God is YHWH, YHWH is two persons as I understand it. One person sent the other person to become flesh and redeem mankind. In order to become flesh that second person had to empty himself of whatever necessary to become man. Once emptied and finished with his mission, he was given back what he emptied himself of.

    In other words, our one God YHWH alone created all things as Father and Son.

    We are joint heirs of eternal life.

    Have a wonderful celebration of the resurrection of the Lord of lords.

    LU

    April 12, 2020 at 5:56 am#862828
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi, Jodi,

    YOU: YHWH MAKES the LIGHT and Jesus IS the root and offspring, the BRIGHT and morning STAR.  

    ME: In the above Jodi, YOU CONFIRMED THOUGH NOT AWARE OF IT THAT

    JESUS IS NOT ONLY OFFSPRING OF DAVID, ONLY IN RELATION TO YOUR CARNAL MINDED UNDERSTANDING BUT ALSO

    A SPIRIT BEING PRE-EXISTED HIDDEN IN

    EVERY CREATURE’S HEART AS ETERNAL LIFE,   “THE WORD”

    THE SON OF MAN TO BE.

    THE SEED OF GOD’S KINGDOM Matthew 13:37 Who made answer and said to them: He that soweth

    the good seed is the Son of man

    THE BEGINNING, and THE END, THE FIRST,  and THE LAST

    THE BEGINNING OF EVERY BEGINNING TO MAINTAIN 

    HIS PRIMACY

    PRECISELY:

    BOTH IN DAVID’S HEART’SOUL,

    HIS CREATOR IN HIS MOTHER’S WOMB.

    SIMPLY FOR JESUS AS A SPIRIT TO BE THE FIRST KING OVER THE WHOLE OF ISRAEL. PURE TRUTH!

    Psalm 139: 13 For thou hast

    possessed my reins:

    thou hast protected me from ( from Satan’s presence in his heart/soul through sex)

    my mother’s womb.

    14I will praise thee, for thou art fearfully magnified: wonderful are thy works,

    and my soul knoweth right well.(the abode of “the word” Jesus the Son of man)

    15 My bone( SPIRIT)  is not hidden from thee, which thou hast made in secret: (his creator)

    and my substance( LUCIFER’S) in the lower parts of the earth. ( IN DAVID’S SPIRIT ETERNAL LIFE, WHILE HE WAS STILL A SPIRIT IN FIRE AFTER THE REBELLION)

    AND IN LUCIFER’S HEART.

    THE BEGINNING, of creation John1:1

    and also

    the first-ever physical

    MORNING STAR!

    Hidden as

    THE SPIRITUAL MORNING STAR.

    THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT.

     

    Isaiah 14:12How you have fallen from heaven,

    morning star, son of the dawn!

    You have been cast down to the earth,

    you who once laid low the nations!

    Luke 10:18 And he said to them:

    I saw Satan like lightning

    falling from heaven.

    ( “THE WORD” Jesus in Lucifer’s heart after the rebel, and also on Jesus’ baptism, where Jesus fulfilled ALL JUSTICE, THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE FREE FROM LUCIFER’S SPIRIT, IN JESUS’ EMBODIMENT and established the lineage of many brethren in HIM)

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    April 12, 2020 at 6:52 am#862829
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU: Try to be shorter
    and just answer the question we ask you. ..

    ME: I answered your question at the very beginning of my post. 

    “My understanding from scripture is that there is One Almighty God who is our heavenly Father YHWH, and He is a God of gods, a Lord of lords, and most certainly a King of kings.

    The kingdom that we are to enter is our heavenly Father’s kingdom, He is the King over His Kingdom. “

    Psalms 24 speaks of YHWH, I tell you from the beginning of my post that YHWH is the Father and He is King.

    HOW DOES THAT NOT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION in regards to Psalms 24 that is speaking directly of YHWH?

    Psalm 24:7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 8 Who is this King of glory? YHWH strong and mighty, the YHWH mighty in battle. 9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 10 Who is this King of glory? YHWH of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah.

    If I tell you YHWH is ONE GOD OUR HEAVENLY FATHER and HE IS KING, you can’t conclude that my understanding thus of WHO the King in Psalms 24 is, would be our heavenly Father?

     

    April 12, 2020 at 7:52 am#862831
    Ed J
    Participant

    Berean please give me your take on Hebrews 11:3

    Darby Bible Translation
    By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
    so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.

    Weymouth New Testament
    Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,
    so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.

    so, According to Hebrews 11:3 Jesus CANNOT be “The Word” – what say you?

    Hi Berean,

    Instead of you addressing what the last part of Hebrews 11:3 says,
    you instead springboard back to ‘what you believe’ as if I don’t know – you said it a million times already

    You remind me of Gene, he doesn’t address the question’s I ask either.
    But at least you have a “Free Will”, so please address my question this time; OK?

    Thank you
    Ed J

    April 12, 2020 at 7:54 am#862832
    Ed J
    Participant

    T8 would you also please address my question

    April 12, 2020 at 9:15 am#862833
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hebrews 11:3 says nothing about the logos.

    April 12, 2020 at 9:41 am#862834
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi Jodi

    Try to be shorter
    and just answer the question we ask you. ..

    That requires honesty, transparency, and confidence in what you believe.

    I rarely read her posts for that reason.

    Jodi would have made a great lawyer.

    April 12, 2020 at 9:43 am#862835
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8 would you also please address my question

    I’m working my way back so haven’t come to it yet.

    I suspect it was about what you said to Berean, so I will answer that.

    The Word became flesh means the Word took on the nature of man and thus became visible.

    The Word that was with God is not said to have a body that I can tell anyway.

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