Home Questions & Answers Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth? Page 1,002

Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

, , Questions & Answers, , , , , 25,948
Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 20,021 through 20,040 (of 25,949 total)
123…1,0011,0021,003…1,2961,2971,298
  • Author
    Posts
  • April 9, 2020 at 9:56 am#862735
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    Jesus is the servant, Carmel.  His and our God, YHWH, is the Master.

    Read and accept the truth Mike for a change!

    John17:10 And all my things are thine, and thine are mine: and I am glorified in them.

    ALL MY THINGS (REGARDING THE PHYSICAL/FLESH) ARE YOURS, AND 

    ALL YOURS( REGARDING THE SPIRIT) ARE MINE, Attention Mike:

    AND I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.

    OK MIKE? JESUS IS GLORIFIED IN 

    BOTH SPIRIT and FLESH! 

    in a unique embodiment.

    not the Father.

    On the last day of the Lord

    God the Father, SPIRIT HIDDEN,

    would make use of this embodiment,

    “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN, eternally

    ALL IN ALL. AS JESUS CHRIST

    IN THE MEANTIME THE SON

    JESUS CHRIST IS THE MASTER OF THE UNIVERSES

    Both spirit and flesh.

    Matthew 28:17 And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. 18And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying:

    All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.

    CREATED ANEW BY JESUS, ON HIS DEATH, AND 

    THE FATHER OF IT. 

    John20:17…..But go to my brethren and say to them:

    I ascend to(THE GLORY OF)  my Father and to your Father, to my God and to your God.

    Hebrews 1:8But to the Son:

    Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever:

    a sceptre of

    JUSTICE is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (THE KINGDOM OF THE SON, MIKE!)

    Simply as the entire process of the world was

    DEAD!

    LET THE DEAD BURY THE DEAD.

    And Jesus IS ETERNAL LIFE

    John3:17For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have LIFE EVERLASTING  17For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world:

    but that the world may be saved

    BY HIM.  

    Mike, Jesus, the Son of Man died, not the Father.

    The Father could do nothing by Himself

    REGARDING HUMAN REDEMPTION.

    The process of the world is ALL OF THE SON, SINCE HE HAD TO DIE FOR IT.

    The Father supported the Son all the way through, from the beginning of the world both AS A SPIRIT in the Holy Ghost attributed to the Son, 

    IN JESUS’SOUL, THE DIVINE NATURE OF JESUS, and up to the point of death AS FLESH in “THE WORD”.THE HUMAN NATURE OF JESUS.

    THE FACT THAT HE GLORIFIED, SPIRITUALIZED HIMSELF IN 

    BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, (THE FATHER COULD NOT DO ANYTHING REGARDING REDEMPTION, EXCEPT HIDDEN AS A SPIRIT IN “THE WORD” )

    I will uphold him: (EXCEPT SUPPORT THE SON OF MAN)

    my elect, ( HIS OWN SUBSTANCE)

    my SOUL(THE HOLY GHOST ATTRIBUTED TO THE SON,) delighteth in him: (“THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN)

    The Father, SPIRIT within the HOLY GHOST, and both within “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man,  THE FULLNESS OF THE DEITY IN HIM. Colossians 2:9 the most powerful,

    TRIUNE GOD) 1 John5:7,8

    I have given (PRE-EXISTED) my spirit upon him,(FROM THE BEGINNING) he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    2He shall not cry, nor have respect to person, (HE CAN USE EVEN THE DEVIL’S WORK TO ACHIEVE GOD’S WILL, as manifested in the genealogy of Matthew, where 4 contaminated women are involved) neither shall his voice be heard abroad.(in God’s silence hidden in the core of the process. Isaiah 45:15)

    6 I the Lord have called(PRE-EXISTED) thee in justice, and taken thee by the hand, and preserved thee. (Pre-existed)

    And I have given thee (PRE-EXISTED)for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles:

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    April 9, 2020 at 10:58 am#862736
    Berean
    Participant

     

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    [2] The same was in the beginning with God.
    [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    BY HIM…..WITHOUT HIM

    HIM = ONE PERSON
    NOT A word spoken by God before the world began…
    THE “HIM “WAS THE SON OF GOD.

    Hi LU

    I appreciate the point you made to Gene

     

    GOD BLESS

    April 9, 2020 at 12:10 pm#862737
    Lightenup
    Participant

    t8,

    You said:

    I wouldn’t compare God to a cell or any created thing myself, but the origin of the Son being begotten might show us something useful.

    That said, Origen is talking about the Greek tongue and the meaning of the definite article. Obviously he studied scripture and not the dividing if a cell.

    Thinking of the Son as asexually begotten and understanding the process in the simplest of organisms has made things like John 1:1, Hebrews 1, Colossians 1, etc. so much easier to understand how from one eternal life, through asexual reproduction can beget another just like the original and share the original’s eternal living substance, being the exact representation in eternal nature. The Son is not a production of God but a “reproduction” of God. Created things would be a “production” of God.

    Origen is partly talking about the Greek tongue but is going off on tangent that is just someone trying to figure out how the Word could also be theos without being the theos. He just ends up with a bunch of theos’s, not an only begotten Son who is one by reproduction. Origen thinks the Son was formed like many others that came after him.

    Anyway, the asexual reproduction process of a single living organism helps me understand the notion of one organism exactly representing the nature of another and being in relationship as father/son.

    April 9, 2020 at 12:31 pm#862738
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Lightenup,

    YOU:Jesus is showing His “oneness” with the Father to Philip. If Philip would listen to Jesus and watch Jesus, He would hear and see the Father because what Jesus says and does initiates from the Father who is \
    <h2>within Him.</h2>
    Me: Jesus mysteriously was referring to another TRUTH WHICH WAS STILL UNKNOWN even from His own apostles, with the exception, most probably of John the fact that He was so close to Jesus, and also THE ONE WHOM HE LOVED. TAKE IN CONSIDERATION THAT NO ONE HAD SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME. THE FACT THAT LUCIFER REBELLED AS HE IN SUCH UNIQUE GLORY

    THE PRIMORDIAL LIGH, THE FIRST EMBODIMENT OF GOD, PRETENDED TO SEE GOD.

    Reflect on this perception regarding John14

    John 14:7 If you (AS AN ANGEL) HAD KNOWN me,( BEFORE I CAME INTO THE WORLD)  you would

    WITHOUT DOUBT

    HAVE KNOWN my Father also: ( AS A SPIRIT TALKING WITHIN YOUR HEART, HIDDEN IN ME, AS “THE WORD”) and from henceforth you

    SHALL KNOW HIM (IN MY GLORIFIED EMBODIMENT JESUS CHRIST GODMAN ON MOUNT TABOR)

    And YOU HAVE SEEN HIM. (IN MY PERSON)

    Jesus in the above description RELATED to the Father made it clear that

    HE REVEALS THE MYSTERIOUS FATHER, THROUGHOUT, BOTH SPIRIT AND PHYSICAL.

    Confirmed in the verse before this one:

    Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

    No man cometh to the Father,

    BUT BY ME.(IN EVERY SENSE)

    Then again Jesus asserted emphatically to Philip after he insisted and asked Jesus to show them the Father, and said:

    John14:9 Jesus saith to him: HAVE I BEEN so long a time with you ( EVEN AS “THE WORD” TALKING TO YOU IN YOUR HEART EVEN WHEN YOU WERE STILL AN ANGEL)  and

    HAVE YOU NOT KNOWN me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also (WHO WAS/IS IN YOU, HIDDEN IN ME “THE WORD” WAS GOD, WHEN YOU WERE STILL AN ANGEL) How sayest thou: Shew us the Father?

    Philip was not one of the rebellious angels like PETER was, the fact that Jesus changed his name SIMON, a name associated mostly with Satan.

    Now reflect on

    John 17:6 I have manifested thy name

    To the men whom thou HAST GIVEN  me OUT of the world. THINE they were:(ANGELS) and to me(AS MEN)  thou gavest them. And THEY HAVE KEPT thy word.( JESUS, IN THEM AS ANGELS) 7Now they have known that all things (ABOUT ME AS “THE WORD” ORIGINALLY IN THEM FROM THE BEGINNING AND NOW AS MAN) which thou hast given me(FROM THE BEGINNING)  are from thee (DIVINE): 8Because the words (TEACHING) which thou gavest me, I have given to them. And they have received(ACCEPTED) them and have known in very deed that I (“THE WORD” )came out from thee(FROM YOUR MOUTH:LET BE THERE LIGHT IN THE BEGINNING)  and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9I pray for them. I pray not for the world, but for them whom THOU HAST GIVEN me: because they are thine. (SPIRITS/ANGELS) 10And all my things (PHYSICAL/HUMAN)are thine, and thine (SPIRIT) are mine: and I am glorified in them.

    (BOTH SPIRIT and FLESH for the Father’s SAKE, for the Father could do nothing by Himself regarding HUMANITY ON EARTH.)

    Back to John14:16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you ANOTHER Paraclete, ( IN THE SAME WAY AS YOU HAD WHEN YOU WERE ANGELS) that he may abide with you (THIS TIME) forever:( AS HUMANS) 17The spirit of truth, (FROM THE BEGINNING IN LUCIFER, THE SPIRIT OF THE SON,)  whom the world cannot receive, (AS IT IS LUCIFER/SATAN’S SPIRIT, THE LOST SHEEP) because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him.( BECAUSE OF ITS HEART OF STONE) But you shall know him;( AS YOU WERE NOT LUCIFER’S) because he shall abide with you and shall be in you.

    I will not leave you ORPHANS: I will come to you. (AS “THE WORD” male and female, androgynous in your (ACTUAL) heart, in Jesus, the Son of Man, PHYSICALLY/ FLESH, and Mary, in your ACTUAL SOUL) 19Yet a little while and the world seeth me no more. But you see me: because I live,(IN YOU AS SPIRIT) and you shall live.(IN ME AS FLESH)

    ASSERTED IN John15:4 Abide in me: and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me.

    John14:20 In that day ( PENTECOST)  you shall know that I am in my Father:( HIS PARTICULAR FATHER IN FLESH John20:17)  and you in me,( IN FLESH) and I in you. ( IN SPIRIT) 21He that hath MY commandments and keepeth them; (SPIRITUAL) he it is that loveth ME. And he that loveth ME shall be loved

    OF MY FATHER: ( SPIRIT) and I will love him and will manifest MYSELF( JESUS CHRIST AS GODMAN AND FATHER )  to him. 22Judas saith to him, not the Iscariot: Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us, and not to the world? 23Jesus answered and said to him: If anyone loves ME, he will keep my “WORD (SPIRIT IN HIS HEART). And my Father will love him( BY THE HOLY SPIRIT IN HIS MIND, FROM PENTECOST) and we (IN JESUS CHRIST, THE FATHER IN THE SON) will come to him and will make our abode with him.( ANOTHER JESUS CHRIST) 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my words.( MY TEACHING)  And the( ACTUAL) word(SPIRIT) which you have heard(IN MY VOICE) is not mine; but the Father’s( SPIRIT) who sent me.( AS THE FATHER’S ACTUAL WORD SPOKEN, FROM MY MOUTH AS MAN “THE WORD” MADE FLESH IN MY PRESENCE,NOT THE ACTUAL WORD OF THE SON)

    Well emphatically clear in

    John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works. 11Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me? 12Otherwise believe for the very works’ sake.

    Now back to John14:11Let not your heart be troubled.

    Jesus came to establish  A NEW HEART and A NEW SPIRIT within humanity. Well predicted in

    Ezakiel 36:26 And I will give you

    a new heart, and put

    a new spirit within you:

    and I will take away

    the stony heart out of your flesh, and will give you

    a heart of flesh. (“THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN GOD’S HEART, THE HEART OF THE KINGDOM OF THE SON.)

    `Jeremiah  32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me all days :

    32:41 And I will rejoice over them, when I shall do them good:

    and I will plant( ESTABLISH) them in this (EMBODIMENT) land in TRUTH, (JESUS CHRIST) with

    my WHOLE heart, ( “THE WORD”)  and

    with ALL my soul.(THE HOLY GHOST) IN

     

    JESUS CHRIST

    pinpointed out by Jesus in

    John14:2 In my Father’s house(JESUS’FATHERHOOD IN SPIRIT AND FLESH, JESUS CHRIST)

    there are many mansions. If not,

    I would have told you:

    because I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I shall go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself:

    ( ALL EMBODIED IN JESUS CHRIST)

    that where I am, you also may be.

    (ONE  BODY, ONE SPIRIT, ONE FATHER, ONE BLOOD, ONE GOD)

    4And whither I go you know: and the way you know.

    Ephesians 4:3 Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism. 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

    cont.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    April 9, 2020 at 12:31 pm#862739
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Lightenup,

    YOU:Jesus is showing His “oneness” with the Father to Philip. If Philip would listen to Jesus and watch Jesus, He would hear and see the Father because what Jesus says and does initiates from the Father who is \

    within Him.

    Me: Jesus mysteriously was referring to another TRUTH WHICH WAS STILL UNKNOWN even from His own apostles, with the exception, most probably of John the fact that He was so close to Jesus, and also THE ONE WHOM HE LOVED. TAKE IN CONSIDERATION THAT NO ONE HAD SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME. THE FACT THAT LUCIFER REBELLED AS HE IN SUCH UNIQUE GLORY

    THE PRIMORDIAL LIGH, THE FIRST EMBODIMENT OF GOD, PRETENDED TO SEE GOD.

    Reflect on this perception regarding John14

    John 14:7 If you (AS AN ANGEL) HAD KNOWN me,( BEFORE I CAME INTO THE WORLD)  you would

    WITHOUT DOUBT

    HAVE KNOWN my Father also: ( AS A SPIRIT TALKING WITHIN YOUR HEART, HIDDEN IN ME, AS “THE WORD”) and from henceforth you

    SHALL KNOW HIM (IN MY GLORIFIED EMBODIMENT JESUS CHRIST GODMAN ON MOUNT TABOR)

    And YOU HAVE SEEN HIM. (IN MY PERSON)

    Jesus in the above description RELATED to the Father made it clear that

    HE REVEALS THE MYSTERIOUS FATHER, THROUGHOUT, BOTH SPIRIT AND PHYSICAL.

    Confirmed in the verse before this one:

    Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life.

    No man cometh to the Father,

    BUT BY ME.(IN EVERY SENSE)

    Then again Jesus asserted emphatically to Philip after he insisted and asked Jesus to show them the Father, and said:

    John14:9 Jesus saith to him: HAVE I BEEN so long a time with you ( EVEN AS “THE WORD” TALKING TO YOU IN YOUR HEART EVEN WHEN YOU WERE STILL AN ANGEL)  and

    HAVE YOU NOT KNOWN me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also (WHO WAS/IS IN YOU, HIDDEN IN ME “THE WORD” WAS GOD, WHEN YOU WERE STILL AN ANGEL) How sayest thou: Shew us the Father?

    Philip was not one of the rebellious angels like PETER was, the fact that Jesus changed his name SIMON, a name associated mostly with Satan.

    Now reflect on

    John 17:6 I have manifested thy name

    To the men whom thou HAST GIVEN  me OUT of the world. THINE they were:(ANGELS) and to me(AS MEN)  thou gavest them. And THEY HAVE KEPT thy word.( JESUS, IN THEM AS ANGELS) 7Now they have known that all things (ABOUT ME AS “THE WORD” ORIGINALLY IN THEM FROM THE BEGINNING AND NOW AS MAN) which thou hast given me(FROM THE BEGINNING)  are from thee (DIVINE): 8Because the words (TEACHING) which thou gavest me, I have given to them. And they have received(ACCEPTED) them and have known in very deed that I (“THE WORD” )came out from thee(FROM YOUR MOUTH:LET BE THERE LIGHT IN THE BEGINNING)  and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9I pray for them. I pray not for the world, but for them whom THOU HAST GIVEN me: because they are thine. (SPIRITS/ANGELS) 10And all my things (PHYSICAL/HUMAN)are thine, and thine (SPIRIT) are mine: and I am glorified in them.

    (BOTH SPIRIT and FLESH for the Father’s SAKE, for the Father could do nothing by Himself regarding HUMANITY ON EARTH.)

    Back to John14:16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you ANOTHER Paraclete, ( IN THE SAME WAY AS YOU HAD WHEN YOU WERE ANGELS) that he may abide with you (THIS TIME) forever:( AS HUMANS) 17The spirit of truth, (FROM THE BEGINNING IN LUCIFER, THE SPIRIT OF THE SON,)  whom the world cannot receive, (AS IT IS LUCIFER/SATAN’S SPIRIT, THE LOST SHEEP) because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him.( BECAUSE OF ITS HEART OF STONE) But you shall know him;( AS YOU WERE NOT LUCIFER’S) because he shall abide with you and shall be in you.

    I will not leave you ORPHANS: I will come to you. (AS “THE WORD” male and female, androgynous in your (ACTUAL) heart, in Jesus, the Son of Man, PHYSICALLY/ FLESH, and Mary, in your ACTUAL SOUL) 19Yet a little while and the world seeth me no more. But you see me: because I live,(IN YOU AS SPIRIT) and you shall live.(IN ME AS FLESH)

    ASSERTED IN John15:4 Abide in me: and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me.

    John14:20 In that day ( PENTECOST)  you shall know that I am in my Father:( HIS PARTICULAR FATHER IN FLESH John20:17)  and you in me,( IN FLESH) and I in you. ( IN SPIRIT) 21He that hath MY commandments and keepeth them; (SPIRITUAL) he it is that loveth ME. And he that loveth ME shall be loved

    OF MY FATHER: ( SPIRIT) and I will love him and will manifest MYSELF( JESUS CHRIST AS GODMAN AND FATHER )  to him. 22Judas saith to him, not the Iscariot: Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us, and not to the world? 23Jesus answered and said to him: If anyone loves ME, he will keep my “WORD (SPIRIT IN HIS HEART). And my Father will love him( BY THE HOLY SPIRIT IN HIS MIND, FROM PENTECOST) and we (IN JESUS CHRIST, THE FATHER IN THE SON) will come to him and will make our abode with him.( ANOTHER JESUS CHRIST) 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my words.( MY TEACHING)  And the( ACTUAL) word(SPIRIT) which you have heard(IN MY VOICE) is not mine; but the Father’s( SPIRIT) who sent me.( AS THE FATHER’S ACTUAL WORD SPOKEN, FROM MY MOUTH AS MAN “THE WORD” MADE FLESH IN MY PRESENCE,NOT THE ACTUAL WORD OF THE SON)

    Well emphatically clear in

    John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works. 11Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me? 12Otherwise believe for the very works’ sake.

    Now back to John14:11Let not your heart be troubled.

    Jesus came to establish  A NEW HEART and A NEW SPIRIT within humanity. Well predicted in

    Ezakiel 36:26 And I will give you

    a new heart, and put

    a new spirit within you:

    and I will take away

    the stony heart out of your flesh, and will give you

    a heart of flesh. (“THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN GOD’S HEART, THE HEART OF THE KINGDOM OF THE SON.)

    `Jeremiah  32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me all days :

    32:41 And I will rejoice over them, when I shall do them good:

    and I will plant( ESTABLISH) them in this (EMBODIMENT) land in TRUTH, (JESUS CHRIST) with

    my WHOLE heart, ( “THE WORD”)  and

    with ALL my soul.(THE HOLY GHOST) IN

     

    JESUS CHRIST

    pinpointed out by Jesus in

    John14:2 In my Father’s house(JESUS’FATHERHOOD IN SPIRIT AND FLESH, JESUS CHRIST)

    there are many mansions. If not,

    I would have told you:

    because I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I shall go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself:

    ( ALL EMBODIED IN JESUS CHRIST)

    that where I am, you also may be.

    (ONE  BODY, ONE SPIRIT, ONE FATHER, ONE BLOOD, ONE GOD)

    4And whither I go you know: and the way you know.

    Ephesians 4:3 Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism. 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

    cont.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    April 9, 2020 at 1:03 pm#862740
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    For some reason, I could not really grasp what you are saying. I prefer simple things, can you sum that up in a couple of sentences? What is this about humans being angels before they were humans? Is that what you are saying?

    Blessings, LU

    April 10, 2020 at 12:46 am#862749
    Ed J
    Participant

    John 1: 1 doesn’t say that THE Word was THE God, but that is how people read it.

    Hi T8

    John 1: 1 doesn’t say that THE Word was Jesus either, but that is how MOST people read it.

    April 10, 2020 at 4:39 am#862753
    Jodi
    Participant

    Good Morning Gene,

    Thank you, and you are right it most certainly does sharpen!

    Simple passages they can’t even think on, so many passages they don’t include to be part of their understanding.  So much of scripture they treat as empty words, as if God had no point in saying them.

    They can’t even apply the fact that God spoke the END from the beginning and all things in between.

    This is what came to mind to me yesterday,

    “all things that were made through him and for him”, they reduce “all things that were made” to the creation in the beginning, God making heaven with the sun, moon, stars etc.., earth with the humans, plants, and animals etc…, not realizing that ALL THINGS consist of FAR MORE than that to which God made in the beginning.

    After the beginning God MADE many men to have faith in Him, Noah, Abraham, David, etc.., He declared a covenant in the beginning unto Israel, and then later He made Israel, then He made them slaves, then He freed them, etc… As we are told in Acts 17 He determined before appointed the boundaries and habitations, and then He MADE that which He had appointed beforehand true. In that same chapter this God makes a man ordained for to judge the world in righteousness, giving us assurance by making him be raised from the dead. God appointed a day when this judgement would occur. God declared before the world was a day MADE for judgment and He declared that He would make an ordained man to do the judging. Determined before appointed was the man who would sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh and his habitation would the kingdom of God where he would rule from Jerusalem and his boundary would be overall the earth.

    certainly there is “all things” that were made in the beginning that relates to the creation made in the beginning, but that is NOT “all things” that were made through him and for him. Before the world was “all things” that would be were declared by God in His word, and He then when the time came MADE each thing become true. He says this both to Solomon and Isaiah. God said that He declared things not yet done, which are things not yet made by Him that would be made. 

    When He brought forth a son Isaac to Abraham, He was doing so by reason of Jesus Christ, when God made Moses a prophet unto Israel He was doing so by reason of Jesus Christ, when He freed Israel from Egypt He was doing so by reason of Jesus Christ. When He made David an anointed man, He was doing so by reason of Jesus Christ, etc…

    Before Abraham the father of Israel existed, before John the baptist existed, they came forth by reason of and for Jesus Christ the promised eternal father overall of Israel. Without him nothing was made that was made FROM beginning to END, there would have been no point for our Father to MAKE John into a prophet.

    The message is not we need to believe that Jesus pre-existed as God’s WORD and then God had this pre-existing son create heaven, earth, and man for himself.

    The message is that ALL THINGS from the beginning unto the END, ALL THINGS in between were MADE by reason of and FOR him. 

    Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

    Matthew 20:23 And he saith unto them,Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

    John 6:65 And he said,Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand

    In “ALL THINGS” that our Father made such includes our Father’s calling of us to come unto His Son.

    It is impossible and absurd to say that our Father made Jesus to make “all things”.

    The message is not that we need to believe that Jesus existed before and spoke plants and animals into existence.

    The MESSAGE IS, 

    “All things” were made by our Father from the beginning through until the END by reason of Jesus. ALL THESE THINGS that the Father made in their appointed time, were GIVEN into Jesus’s hands, hence why we are told that they were made FOR him. 

     

    April 10, 2020 at 4:55 am#862754
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU……So tell us what does this mean to you.

    John 12:49….. “for I have “not spoken” of myself; but the Father which sent me, “HE” gave me a commandment, what I should say, “and” what I should speak”. 

    Deu 18:18…..“I (God) will raise them up a prophet “from among  their brethern”, like unto you, and will put “MY WORDS” in his mouth; and he shall “speak” all I (God) command him”. 

    Here is something else you need to consider

    John 12:44…..“He that believes on me, believes “NOT ON ME”, but on “HIM” that sent me. 

    Why not honestly deal with these scriptures for a change.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    April 10, 2020 at 5:38 am#862756
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    YOU:Jesus is showing His “oneness” with the Father to Philip. If Philip would listen to Jesus and watch Jesus, He would hear and see the Father because what Jesus says and does initiates from the Father who is within Him. Jesus is perfectly in tune with the Father…they are one, not one in the same person, that would be an independent person. The Father and the Son demonstrate an inter-dependency of two persons, a perfect unity. Jesus is so perfect as the Son of God and as the Son of Man that He is speaking and acting in ways to show His perfect unity with the Father. That is a strength of Jesus’ to follow His Father soooo closely and so perfectly. We can all do better to speak and act as the Father would have us. We need the eyes to see and the ears to hear or it is not possible.

    ME: Jesus speaks the word of the Father because he received the Spirit not by measure. Jesus quotes Isaiah 61, where it is the son of Jesse that had been promised to be anointed with God’s Spirit in fullness and then he is sent out to preach God’s word. Without that Spirit having descended upon him there is no Jesus sent to preach God’s word, the purpose of the Spirit coming to abode upon him was for him specifically to be sent to preach God’s word. They are ONE because of the Spirit in fullness was given to the man.

    When we believe on this we are promised the SAME, to be a joint heirs with Christ. The Son of David was raised from the dead receiving the promised Holy Spirit, said to have been begotten by our Father where he is declared by our Father to be His Son, which is now for all eternity. We read that his resurrection is our resurrection. We read that God is going to give us a heart of flesh and place His Spirit within us causing us to be like Jesus, where our Father directs all our ways.

    It’s all about the FULL MEASURE of our Father’s Holy Spirit dwelling in a human, such equates to righteousness and eternal life.  We are ONE with Christ/JOINT with him as an heir of our Father being ONE with our Father as Christ is through the fullness of OUR Father’s Spirit. 

    When the image of Jesus is changed from him not being a human being, but him existing as an additional different kind of being, it destroys the true message to that of our salvation, which is all about the power of God’s Spirit when given in full measure to a human. That which it creates is a Last Adam/Human who has righteousness and life because of God’s Spirit in fullness dwelling within the human spirit.

    April 10, 2020 at 5:46 am#862757
    Berean
    Participant

     

     

    Jodi

    You

    It is impossible and absurd to say that our Father made Jesus to make “all things”.

    Me

    Hebrews 2

    16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
    Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    Philipians 2
    [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

     

    Can we say of a human being that he takes upon himself
    the form of a servant by becoming like men…?

     

     

     

     

    April 10, 2020 at 7:00 am#862758
    Ed J
    Participant

    Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    Hi Berean,

    Do you have this mind in you? The verse before that says you should…

    Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    April 10, 2020 at 7:39 am#862759
    Berean
    Participant

    Edj

    And you?

     

     

    April 10, 2020 at 9:01 am#862761
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    I do not disagree with you about Jesus receiving the fullness of the spirit from the Father. We are all to be filled with the spirit and walk in that fullness. What you never seem to mention is that in order to walk in the fullness of the spirit from the Father, we need to be filled with the spirit of the Son. It is not possible to receive the fullness of the spirit of the Father without having the spirit of the Son also.

    The spirit of the Father cannot be given without the spirit of the Son because they are interdependent with each other, inseperable. Their spirits are united as the one Holy Spirit.

    Take care, LU

    April 10, 2020 at 10:28 am#862765
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    The God of gods sent the Lord of lords, his son, to be his prophet to men. The son did so perfectly. The Lord of lords has been speaking for the God of gods since man began…before the flesh and in the flesh.

    April 10, 2020 at 10:56 am#862766
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Hi Lightenup,

    YOU: For some reason, I could not really grasp what you are saying. I prefer simple things, can you sum that up in a couple of sentences? What is this about humans being angels before they were humans? Is that what you are saying?

    It is not an answer in a couple of sentences, still, I try to be concise.

    Ecclestiastes:1:

    What is it that hath been? the same thing that shall be. What is it that hath been done? the same that shall be done.

    10Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say: Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us.

    From the above, we are aware that the world existed without the sun. That humans existed and lived on this planet. That whatever occurred in this world it did already occur in the other world, and it will eventually occur in the next.

    Jesus Himself said in

    Matthew 12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him

    neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

    After this world there shall be another and humans would STILL be subject to sin.

    11There is no remembrance of former things: nor indeed of those things which hereafter are to come, shall there be any remembrance with them that shall be in the latter end.

    In the above it says that humans don’t remember their former life, as much as they will not remember this life in the next, and in the end.

    Now let’s read

    Job 38:8 Who shut up the sea with doors,

    when it broke forth as issuing out of the womb:

    9When I made a cloud the garment thereof, and wrapped it in a mist as in swaddling bands?

    10I set my bounds around it, and made it bars and doors:

    11And I said: Hitherto thou shalt come, and shalt go no further, and here thou shalt break thy swelling waves.

     

    Now compare the above with

    Psalm 18:3{17:4}Praising, I will call upon the Lord: and I shall be saved from my enemies.

    4{17:5}The sorrows of death surrounded me: and the torrents of iniquity troubled me.

    5{17:6}The sorrows of hell encompassed me: and the snares of death prevented me.

    6{17:7}In my affliction I called upon the Lord, and I cried to my God: And he heard my voice from his holy temple: and my cry before him came into his ears.

    7{17:8}The earth shook and trembled: the foundations of the mountains were troubled and were moved, because he was angry with them.

    8{17:9}There went up a smoke in his wrath: and a fire flamed from his face: coals were kindled by it.

    9{17:10}He bowed the heavens, and came down, and darkness was under his feet.

    10{17:11}And he ascended upon the cherubim, and he flew; he flew upon the wings of the winds.

    11{17:12}And he made darkness his cover, his pavilion round about him: dark waters in the clouds of the air.

    12{17:13}At the brightness that was before him the clouds passed, hail and coals of fire.

    13{17:14}And the Lord thundered from heaven, and the Highest gave his voice: hail and coals of fire.

    14{17:15}And he sent forth his arrows, and he scattered them: he multiplied lightnings, and troubled them.

    15{17:16}Then the fountains of waters appeared, and the foundations of the world were discovered: At thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the spirit of thy wrath.

    16{17:17}He sent from on high, and took me: and received me out of many waters.

    17{17:18}He delivered me from my STRONGEST enemies, and from them that hated me: for they were TOO STRONG for me.

    18{17:19}They prevented me in the day of my affliction: and the Lord became my protector.

    19{17:20}And he brought me forth into a LARGE PLACE: he saved me, because he was well pleased with me. 

    In Job 38:8-11 God simply said to Job that He controlled the sea when it flooded the earth, definitely not the flood in Noah times. but simply initiated the rebel. This is mentioned 

    In Psalm 18:3-18  David was about to be drowned and eventually killed, but he prayed to God, He save him and put him on another planet.

    David was the only one saved by God from the previous world to this one. God saved him for continuous sake of the process of creation, and also to be the royal lineage for the redeemer. The fight against Goliath depicts this event.

    Now to

    Job 38:21Didst thou know then that thou shouldst be born? and didst thou know the number of thy days?

    God while talking to Job and explained to him the various tasks of creation, he said to Job in the above verse, that he was supposed to be created then, IN THE TIME OF THESE TASKS, Which is a clear reference to Job as an Angel,

    OF WHICH HE REMEMBERED NOTHING! Then God

    even asked Job his ACTUAL age. Which clearly indicates THAT JOB PRE-EXISTED. 

    John The Baptist confirmed that HE WAS SENT FROM GOD, and we all know that JOHN IS THE DIRECT ANGEL OF GOD. Well mentioned in

    Malachi 3:1 Behold I send MY ANGEL, and he shall prepare the way before my face. 

    ARE NOT ALL GOD’S ANGELS, HE COULD HAVE SAID I WILL SEND AN ANGEL. Also mentioned by Jesus in

    Matthew 11:10 For this is he of whom it is written: Behold I send my angel before my face,

    who shall prepare THY way before THEE. (JESUS’ PRE-EXISTENCE)

     

    All the above clearly shows that ALL OF US PRE-EXISTED as spirit beings, precisely the rebellious angels. THE LOST SHEEP.

    Lucifer’s spirits. Genesis 1:2 depicts the world completely a ball of water. Within that water two-third of Lucifer’s spirits, were drowned, trapped, locked in the planet, and formed the process of our creation God all-knowing of the fall as living souls/humans, and within the core of the entire process

    “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man to be was slain like a lamb as eternal life, by which process He emptied Himself of His spirit, BECAME POOR, engrafted in all creatures’ hearts, while he ENRICHED the entire creatures with His spirit, simply to be

    ETERNALLY EMBODIED IN THE ENTIRE CREATION AS THE SOURCE, AND THE SUSTAINER OF ALL, AND ALSO

    ALL EMBODIED IN HIM AS THE REDEEMER.

    On this planet, there are human beings the origin of Satan, DEVILS IN FLESH, through Cain.

    There are human beings the origin of the heavenly realms, the genealogy of Mary/Jesus, THE SON OF GOD THE DIVINE NATURE OF JESUS, THE SAINTS, PROPHETS through Seth,  and so on, and

    There are human beings the origin of Lucifer’s spirit, the common race, of which the Jews were the chosen people of God.

    KEEP IN MIND THAT

    “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, Jesus, the SON OF MAN to be, THE HUMAN NATURE OF JESUS, was engrafted in the entire human race, ETERNAL LIFE, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB….REV.13:8

    THE RANSOM, THE REDEEMER OF ALL FLESH.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    April 10, 2020 at 11:16 am#862767
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @edj

    Hi T8

    John 1: 1 doesn’t say that THE Word was Jesus either, but that is how MOST people read it.

    It says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

    It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

    It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

    It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

    This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

    He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

    April 10, 2020 at 12:27 pm#862772
    Ed J
    Participant

    Edj

    And you?

    Hi Berean,

    You didn’t answer my question, but I will answer yours:

    “Yes”

    April 10, 2020 at 12:30 pm#862773
    Ed J
    Participant

    assumption upon assumption upon assumption T8

    April 10, 2020 at 12:31 pm#862774
    Ed J
    Participant

    T8 please give me your take on Hebrews 11:3

    Darby Bible Translation
    By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by [the] word of God,
    so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.

    Weymouth New Testament
    Through faith we understand that the worlds came into being, and still exist, at the command of God,
    so that what is seen does not owe its existence to that which is visible.

    According to Hebrews 11:3 Jesus CANNOT be “The Word” – what say you?

  • Author
    Posts
Viewing 20 posts - 20,021 through 20,040 (of 25,949 total)
123…1,0011,0021,003…1,2961,2971,298
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

 

CREATE NEW TOPIC
POPULAR TOPICS
ACTIVE TOPICS
SITE SEARCH
SUPPORT US
REGISTER

Recent Replies

ALL REPLIES →

© 1999 - 2024 Heaven Net

Navigation

© 1999 - 2023 - Heaven Net
 Log in with Facebook
or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

 Log in with Facebook
or

Create Account