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Did God create all things through the Lord Jesus Christ?

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Jesus Christ Stained Glass Window

Many are those who deny that Jesus Christ was the first to be with God and by extension, that God created all things through him. Obviously Atheists deny this. But many so-called Believers also deny this.

What does the Bible say. Did Jesus exist before all things and did God create all things for him? Scripture is actually very clear on this. It says that God created all things through the Word, the Son, and the Lord Jesus Christ. And we know that these three are not three different persons. Clearly, they are the same person who we know as the Jesus Christ.

  1. The Word. See John 1:3 & 14
  2. The Son. See Hebrews 1:1-2 & Colossians 1: 15-20
  3. Lord Jesus Christ. See 1 Corinthians 8:6

If God created all things through Jesus Christ the Word, The Son of God, and the Lord, then he must have preceded all things. It seems that the Son is in the unique position between God and Man and God and creation.

John 1:1-3 & 14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made….

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

Hebrews 1:1-2
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Colossians 1: 15-20
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Anyone who teaches that Jesus Christ did not exist with God in the beginning of creation is denying what the scriptures teach. Anyone who denies that God created all things through the son of God is also denying what the scriptures teach.

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  • August 29, 2022 at 8:00 am#933510
    Jodi
    Participant

    Berean and anyone else,

    If Jesus existed as a perfect Son from the beginning and he is also a firstborn of many brethren where we are joint heirs with him being heirs of God, then why wouldn’t God have just made us like him from the beginning?

    August 29, 2022 at 8:33 am#933513
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    Find me a biblical text that speaks of a human person “WHO WAS MADE FLESH” (sarx)
    apart from Jesus

    3561

    sarx

    probably from the base of sarow – saroo 4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specially), a human being (as such):–carnal(-ly, + – ly minded), flesh(-ly).

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    And the Word was made flesh,

    We are not speaking here of a prophecy which is fulfilled BUT OF A PERSON WHO WAS WITH GOD AND WHO WAS GOD(V.1) (DIVINE NATURE) WHO WAS MADE FLESH (SARX)(V.14)

    CAN YOU SEE THIS JODI?

    FOR NO OTHER HUMAN BEING IT IS SPOKEN THUS…EXCEPT FOR THE DIVINE SON OF GOD..FOR JESUS ​​WAS NOT MAN BEFORE HE WAS MADE FLESH,  HE WAS IN THE FORM OF GOD(PHIL.2:6) AND HE WAS GOD.(JOHN 1:1)
    THIS IS THE TESTIMONY OF THE HOLIES SCRIPTURES, JODI

    August 29, 2022 at 10:57 am#933517
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    The word of God was  that a man would have God’s Spirit come to rest upon him where he would THEN be SENT out into the world to preach, perform signs and wonders, be a light, etc.

    That word was most certainly made true in the flesh, in the human Jesus, where the people beheld his glory.  They beheld the glory of an anointed man who could do nothing of himself who had the glory of YHVH, His Spirit, in full measure upon him. No other mortal human but him, begotten by God unto righteousness, where he would not fail.

    Having the Spirit descend upon him without measure made him  in the form of God. This anointed Jesus, begotten of the Spirit made to walk in all His ways and thus a Son, was sent to perform God’s will and speak God’s words. Exactly why in the book of John Jesus tells us that seeing him is seeing God. Jesus didn’t speak his words he spoke Gods, he didn’t perform his will he performed God’s.

    The human Jesus was in the form of God when God’s prophesied word of his anointing became true in his flesh.

    Berean, it was Jesus’s will to follow God’s will. This is one of the biggest things that urks me, peoples most terrible interpretation of Philippians 2. When Jesus upon being made in the form of God at the river Jordan ( receiving the Spirit not by measure) knew the powers bestowed upon him were to perform God’s will, he wasn’t robbing God of his powers, he was being a servant to God with them.

    You receive the full measure of the Spirit of God are you not going to feel equal to God? When you know the purpose is to do God’s will suppressing your own even through strong temptation are you not made then a humble servant before YHVH?

    August 29, 2022 at 6:58 pm#933519
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    YOU ARE DEFORMING THE TEXTS OF THE BIBLE… TOO MUCH

    IN THE BEGINNING, JESUS (THE WORD) WAS IN THE FORM OF GOD AND HE WAS GOD AND HE WAS MADE FLESH.
    SO HE WAS MADE WHAT HE WAS NOT BEFORE IN ORDER TO BECOME A COMPASSIONATE SAVIOR.

    HAVE A GOOD DAY

    August 30, 2022 at 1:42 am#933533
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean …….Jodi is apsolutely right , Jesus never “preexisted” his birth on this earth,  Jesus is a Son of mankind, as he said around 80 times.  He was ‘prophsied’,  to be born on this earth, as a son of mankind way before he ever existed.    Question is do you truly believe him?

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

    August 30, 2022 at 5:41 am#933539
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

    The Word that was in the beginning was of this man Jesus of Nazareth who would bring eternal life.

    The WORD of eternal life was in the beginning, it was a PROMISE before the world was.

    Eternal life exists through the works of YHVH’s Spirit as YHVH’s Spirit works righteousness causing man to follow in all His ways and thus makes man without sin and thus no longer worthy of death only life.

    The Word of eternal life was with the Father from the beginning, a promise kept with Him to be fulfilled and it is Him because YHVH is righteousness and life. YHVH brought forth eternal life by means of anointing Jesus of His Spirit, calling him to righteousness where he would follow all of YHVH’s commands, even going to his death whereby that act brought forth the life for all.

    1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

    Berean, the resurrected human, Jesus of Nazareth, was The Word fulfilled that was With our Heavenly Father from the beginning and is our Heavenly Father as He is life. Many saw and handled the body of a man with eternal life. He became YHVH’s Word that was from the beginning,

    Our Heavenly Father made all things by reason of and for him, he who became YHVH’s Word that was from the beginning, he who became a firstborn of the dead receiving eternal life.

    August 30, 2022 at 8:58 am#933541
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi All,

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Belief 1, “the Word” is pre-existing Jesus and he was made flesh by coming down from heaven and being made into a human embryo where he then was born and dwelt among people where the people beheld his glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

    Question, what does only begotten of the Father mean exactly with the above belief?

    Belief 2, “the Word” in this passage is God’s word of an anointing that was then made true in the flesh of Jesus when the Spirit descended to rest in him and the people beheld his glory as of the only begotten of the Father, the only man to have received the Spirit without measure. The people beheld the glory of him who received the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of YHVH. Filled with the Spirit, filled thus with grace and truth.  They beheld the glory of a man given the power of the Spirit to heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, make water into wine, etc.. They beheld the glory of a man who was called to righteousness to bring forth God’s Word of eternal life, the Word that had been with our Father from the beginning.

    August 30, 2022 at 10:25 am#933542
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

     

    You:

    Berean and anyone else,

    If Jesus existed as a perfect Son from the beginning and he is also a firstborn of many brethren where we are joint heirs with him being heirs of God,

    then why wouldn’t God have just made us like him from the beginning?

    Genesis 1:26 And he said: Let us MAKE MAN  to our image and likeness: …..

    Genesis 1:27 And God CREATED MAN to his own image: to the image of God HE CREATED HIM:

    Me: Jodi, READING THE ABOVE, IT IS EVIDENTLY CLEAR THAT

    MAN WAS MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD!

    NOW READ HEREUNDER PLEASE:

    John17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had,

    before the world was, with thee.

    Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God,…

    Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally; 

    READING THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE

    JESUS PREEXISTED AS THE ONLY IMAGE OF GOD! BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!

    SO ADAM WAS MADE IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD, AND THE ONLY IMAGE OF GOD IS

    JESUS! OK, Jodi?

    TO BE CLEAR:

    ADAM WAS CREATED IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF JESUS! WHO IS THE ONLY

    IMAGE OF GOD AND!

    the firstborn of every creature: 

    JODI WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT,

    IT’S YOUR PIGEON!

    JESUS, AS A SPIRIT, ETERNAL LIFE, PREEXISTED AS:

    THE BEGINNING OF ALL BEGINNINGS, AND THE PRIMACY,

    HE WAS IN ADAM, THE FIRSTBORN OF ADAM! ASSERTED HEREUNDER:

    Colossians 16: For IN HIM were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created BY HIM AND IN HIM. 

    17And HE IS BEFORE ALL, and BY HIM all things consist. 

    18And he is the head of the body, the church,

    who is  THE BEGINNING,

    the firstborn from the dead;

    that in all things he may hold  THE PRIMACY: 

    19Because  IN HIM, it hath well pleased the Father, that all fullness should dwell;

     20And through him to reconcile all things unto himself, making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth, and the things that are in heaven.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    August 31, 2022 at 4:41 am#933545
    Jodi
    Participant

    Our Heavenly Father created all things BY HIS HANDS and HIS SPOKEN WORDS. On the seventh day He rested from all HIS work. He did so by REASON of and FOR Jesus of Nazareth whom He would call to righteousness, resting His Spirit upon him without measure. He would be led by the Spirit where God would hold his hand and keep him to walk in all his ways, thus a Son of God through the Spirit upon him. Jesus of Nazareth being born of the Spirit was sent from God, thus sent coming down from heaven, to be the savior of the world and a firstborn of many.

    Our Heavenly Father through his foreknowledge of the savior created all things in the beginning and likewise is creating a new beginning by reason of him and for him as he will be a king of kings and a lord of lords.

    Heb. 3:4: “The builder of all things is God.”

    Heb. 4:3-4: “God’s works were accomplished from the foundation of the world…God rested on the seventh day from all His works.”

    Heb. 11:3: “By faith we understand that the world was created at God’s command.”

    Acts 4:24 (the first believers): “With one mind they lifted their voices to God and said, ‘Sovereign Lord, You made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.’”

    Acts 7:48-50 (Stephen): “The Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says, ‘Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool…Was it not My hand that made all these things?’”

    Acts 14:15 (Paul and Barnabas): We are “preaching the Gospel to you, telling you to turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them.”

    Acts 17:24-26 (Paul): “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth…He Himself gives all people life and breath and all things. And from one man He made every nation of mankind to inhabit the whole earth, determining the times set for them and the fixed limits of the places where they should live.”… 31 Because he appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that MAN whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    Isaiah 44:24: “I am the LORD (YHVH) who made everything, who stretched out the heavens by Myself and spread out the earth alone.”

    Jesus never speaks of himself as having created the earth and all things therein, on the contrary he identified a Creator who was not him.

    Mark 10:6 (Jesus): “At the beginning of creation, God made them male and female.”

    Matt. 19:4 (Jesus): “Have you not read that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female?”

    Isaiah 11: 1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. 2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD—

    Rev 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    Genesis 1: 26 And God SAID, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    RECALL Acts 17, Jesus is a man and God is the Creator of the world and everything in it, thus including man.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

    Once again Jesus is a man and God is His Creator.

    The MAN Jesus was born of water and of the Spirit and he was raised from the dead entering the Kingdom of God, the Son of Man who ascended to sit at God’s right hand. 

    Matthew 3: 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

    John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    John 3: 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

    Romans 8: 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    How do we becomes Sons of God as Jesus is a Son of God? Paul DIRECTLY told us just prior how it is Jesus IS a Son of God to which we will also be.

    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    When the Spirit came to rest upon Jesus without measure where he thus would not fail in being led by the Spirit, the Spirit bore witness that Jesus was a child of God.

    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    Jesus is the only mortal human begotten of the Spirit without measure, caused to walk in all of God’s ways led by the Spirit and thus a Son who was sent to be the savior of the world and a firstborn of many with eternal life unto a new creation, all according to God’s foreknowledge. We are told that God had declared the end from the beginning. The glory of Jesus, God making him perfect through His Spirit and by his suffering where he would then be raised from the dead becoming a leader of a new creation, was declared from the beginning, all was the Word from the beginning. Jesus and his glory as a savior and firstborn of a new creation was the foundation to God’s creation, the purpose of making all things, nothing would have been made that was made.

    September 1, 2022 at 2:03 am#933557
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi……“perfect”,  you nailed it agian,  

    Peace and love to you and your Jodi……….gene

    September 1, 2022 at 7:45 pm#933561
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi, Jodi and ALL,

    Attention please all, read Jodi’s twisted preaching:

    Jodi:  He would be led by the Spirit where God would hold his hand and keep him to walk in all his ways,

    thus a Son of God through the Spirit upon him. 

    NO, Jodi, JESUS IS NOT “A” SON OF GOD and neither

    “THROUGH THE SPIRIT UPON HIM”,

    JESUS IS ETERNALLY ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE FATHER, 

    THE SON OF GOD! READ:

    Hebreww1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the figure of his SUBSTANCE, and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high.

    Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called THE SON OF GOD.

    Luke 2:49And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me?

    wist ye not that I must be about MY FATHER’S business? 

    John1:14 And the Word was made flesh,

    and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

    15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

    16And OF HIS FULLNESS have all we received, and grace for grace.

     17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time;

    the only begotten Son, which “IS” IN THE BOSOM of the Father,

    he hath declared him.

    29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 

    30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me:

    for he was before me.

    31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel,

    therefore am I come baptizing with water. 

    34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

     

    Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan, unto John, to be baptized by him. 14But John stayed him, saying:

    I ought to be baptized by thee, and comest thou to me? 

    Explain Jodi, if you consider yourself SPIRITUALLY MINDED, AND CONSIDER ALSO THAT

    JESUS WAS NOT YET BAPTIZED!!!!

    WHAT DID JOHN IN MATTHEW ABOVE, CONFIRM BY HIS DECLARATION?

     

    More to come!

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    September 2, 2022 at 12:30 am#933565
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Carmel and All,

    There are many passages that folks just flat out do not apply to many other passages that they are directly to be applied to, they are just ignored and no matter how many times I put them all together producing sound reasoning there is never  an appropriate response where people are able to explain those passages into their beliefs and make it make sense.

    Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    Firstly, Mathew, Mark and Luke all quote Jesus where the WHO in verse 3 above IS the SON OF MAN, L 22:69 “Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.”

    Secondly, THE WORD OF HIS POWER came through the Spirit of our Majesty on high resting upon him without measure.

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

    Through the fullness of the Spirit of YHVH coming to rest within a man we are saved, Jesus could do nothing of himself. As YHVH had planned from the beginning ONE MAN through his righteousness by the Spirit begotten in him, such would bring forth unto us the gift of grace, the gift of our own righteousness.

    Jesus BECAME the LIGHT unto the people when the Spirit descended to rest upon him without measure. By the fullness of the Spirit upon him he was the expressed image of our Heavenly Father, to say anything otherwise is purely idiotic.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another neither my praise to graven images.

    The GLORY of Jesus of Nazareth is the fullness of YHVH’s Spirit that came to dwell in him. NOT some imaginative idea that he has glory as some one of a kind being God created before the world was.

    FACT, Jesus became the ONLY MORTAL MAN to be filled with YHVH’s Spirit without measure and at that moment at the river Jordan God declared THIS MAN to be His beloved Son. God had promised unto a seed of David that He WOULD BE a Father, a Father unto a Son of Man and would make that man into an eternal king.

    This is where sound reasoning comes in with the below biblical facts,

    We are joint heirs with Jesus being heirs of God. Jesus was raised from the dead receiving the promised Spirit and we are likewise promised to be raised and given the Spirit. Which makes perfect sense since we are promised to be made in his image, the image of the Son. Paul tells us directly what the image of the Son is, those who are led by the Spirit are the Sons of God, the Spirit bears witness to our Spirit we are His children. We are heirs of God, we are promised to be born of His Holy Spirit to a fulfillment that causes us to walk in all His ways, thus no more sin and no more death. This all is exactly why we are told that God created all thing by reason of and for him, him is the firstborn of the dead, the firstborn of many brethren, he whom we are joint heirs of God with. 

     

    September 2, 2022 at 1:27 am#933566
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:…35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called THE SON OF GOD.

    1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

    Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God…

    …29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    “shall be called the Son of God”

    John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

    John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (recall the promise unto the seed of David “I will be his father, and he shall be my son… I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever“)

    Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together…  29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Carmel, Jesus corrected John as he was in error and you are in far more error than he.

    Matthew 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

    I will say it again, Jesus was the only mortal man to have been begotten of the Spirit, where he was called to righteousness led to walk in all of God’s ways to follow all His commands, even going to his death on the cross. He was then resurrected as firstborn of the dead, given the PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT that we too are promised as we are joint heirs with him. Once an only begotten Son now a FIRSTBORN SON OF MANY BRETHEN.

    As Jesus is not a Son because he pre-existed as some one of a kind being begotten by God, neither are we. We are to be made in the image of the Son through being raised receiving the promised Holy Spirit just as he was raised and received.

    September 2, 2022 at 1:33 am#933567
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

     

    There are many passages that folks just flat out do not apply to many other passages that they are directly to be applied to, they are just ignored and no matter how many times I put them all together producing sound reasoning there is never  an appropriate response where people are able to explain those passages into their beliefs and make it make sense.

    Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    Firstly, Mathew, Mark and Luke all quote Jesus where the WHO in verse 3 above IS the SON OF MAN, L 22:69 “Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.” 

    Me

    BEFORE HE CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN (John 6:38) TO THIS EARTH, JESUS FiRST WAS SON OF GOD AND WAS WITH THE GOD AND HE WAS GOD.(JOHN 1:1/ 17:5) 

    And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE before the world was.

    Jodi , You’re wasting your time trying to prove the contrary.

    September 2, 2022 at 1:58 am#933568
    Jodi
    Participant

    Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

    (THE WORD OF GOD Psalms 89: 26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.’ 27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth. Acts 2:30 And so, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne. Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. Isaiah 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. )

    16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    On his vesture the name that is written is king of kings and lord of lords, which IS God’s WORD SPOKEN even from long ago.

    Also, he who shed his blood, his name is Jesus and the meaning of his name IS YHVH is salvation, which also is our God’s SPOKEN WORD from long ago.

    God’s Word from the beginning was a promise of eternal life, in that word from the beginning was the one man who God would accomplish that promise through. Jesus not only died to bring us the eternal life, but he was raised from the dead and went out to prove The Word lived in him. He was the living proof of The Word fulfilled that was from the beginning, giving hope to his BRETHREN that they too would receive The Word of eternal life.

    As we are told in 1 John 1, this word was with the Father from the beginning later made true by the man Jesus and in the man Jesus.

    1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us😉

    John 1:1 is to directly be applied to 1 John 1. What an amazing truth and for those who saw the Word that was from the beginning of eternal life made true in the man Jesus with their own eyes and felt it with their own hands, that had to have been beyond awesome!

    God’s Word was made true in the flesh when Jesus was the only mortal begotten of the Spirit without measure where he was sent out into the world to bring forth salvation unto eternal life. The Word from the beginning was made true in the flesh when Jesus rose from the dead and people beheld his glory as a firstborn Son of many with eternal life.

     

     

    September 2, 2022 at 2:24 am#933569
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi…….right on!, they just don’t get it,  God the Fathers plan in the beginning was to perfect mankind, and The “man” Jesus was the “frist” He perfected,  by his “holy spirit”, but certanily would not be the last,  JESUS WAS THE FIRST OF MANY , “BRETHERN”,  JUST AS IT SAYS. 

    Those who have the Spirit of truth abiding “in”,  are indeed heirs and joint heirs with Jesus. AND ARE EVEN NOW THE SONS GOD. 

    Therefore it says ,  “now if the Spirit of Him (God), that raised Jesus  from the dead, dwell “in” you, He (God), that raised Christ from the  dead,  shall, “also”, quicken your mortal bodies, by the “SPIRIT”  that abides “in” you. 

    Same Spirit, same God, doing the same thing,  He did for Jesus, the “SAME WAY”. 

    But,  Satan their master dosen’t want them to know that, so he and his ministers created a false Jesus that he uses to decieve people, by trying to make our brother,  “the man Jesus”, Appear different the we , turning the “image” of him into a GOD, worshiping him as their God,  commiting Idolitary , and breaking the first commandment of God the Father,  “you shall have no other God besides me, you shall make no “image” of me in heaven above or earth beneath, or under the earth”. 

    The have turned the “image” of Jesus into their God, and worship him as such , 2ths2. 

    They have all together corrupted the commandments of God the Father, as well as the words of Jesus and the apostles also.  John said …..“little childern keep yourselves from “IDOLS”.  They have made Jesus their IDOL, by turning him into their GOD.  

    Peace and love to you and yours Jodi……..gene

    September 2, 2022 at 2:58 am#933570
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene AND Jodi

     

    As long as you deny the divinity of Christ and his pre-existence you will be compelled to continually twist the Scriptures to your disadvantage.

    September 3, 2022 at 1:34 am#933574
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…….Show us one scripture we “twisted” , the only ones “twisting ” scriptures here is you people, not me nor Jodi.

    Peace and love to you and yours Berean………..gene

    September 25, 2022 at 5:45 am#937691
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    If it’s the last thing I do, lol, it is to get people on this forum to explain how certain scriptures fit into their beliefs once and for all.

    It would be nice for Berean to do as you asked, it should be a simple task to show what it is exactly that I am twisting, at the very least he could give us just one example just as you have asked.

    Love to you,  Jodi

    September 25, 2022 at 6:03 am#937693
    Jodi
    Participant

    We read the GENESIS of Jesus from Matthew declaring him to be the bio son of David.

    We read Jesus declaring when he was anointed and when thus him as Christ, was sent out into the world.

    We read that Jesus can do nothing of himself and that he was anointed of the Spirit for the purpose to deliver captives, be a savior.

    We read that Jesus is the beginning of a new heaven and earth, the firstborn of the dead where upon he rose having received the promised Holy Spirit and eternal life and became the Son of Man God had promised to be exalted to His right hand.

    We read that Jesus was slain by the purpose and foreknowledge of God and that before the world was God promised unto man eternal life.

    All things were created by reason of and for this Jesus the anointed, the eternal king who will sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh. Nothing would have been made that was made if it were not for the son of Jesse through God’s Spirit dwelling in him bringing forth salvation, peace and rest upon the earth.

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