Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 01 2013,15:02)Why do you buck against this so hard?  If one is considered or called “theos”, then that one is being considered as and called “a god”.In Greek they would be called The god if it were referring to a particular one.Thus if the text doesn't use the definite article when talking of one, then it is probably not…[Read more]

Quote (princess @ June 30 2013,03:11)*Christians* will tell you that the Universe had a beginning. However, I am the first to admit that the *Christians* get things wrong all the time. That said, you are arguing against their current belief which I don't have a problem with.I take it from this statement that you disagree with both Christians and…[Read more]

Okay here is what you believe.The Universe at the moment is the latest version of something eternal and non-living. At the moment it is the Universe, could be something else, billions or trillions of our Earth years from now.This is your belief system I take it.Yes / No ?

Most who believe in the Trinity would also probably believe in the truth regarding God being the Father, and Jesus being the son.

Given that, you may be able to help them reconcile this difference or contradiction in their belief.

Whoever resists questioning the Trinity and say it is beyond question because it is beyond our understanding, I…[Read more]

Yes we do need fellowship. And it is good to dwell or fellowship with like-minded brothers and sisters.

But yes we live in hard times in this respect. Most Christians are under the traditions of men in one respect or another.

If people believe that Jesus is the son of God and that the Father is Almighty God, then they believe the truth. If…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ July 01 2013,10:55)Adam was created sinless. Jesus was born sinless.Both were in the image of God. One grasped at equality. One did not.The first brought death. The second, because of His obedience, brought life!!Another good point. Again I will look into it when the time is right. Usually when something like this is shown to me, I…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ July 01 2013,10:55)“in the form of God” in Greek and “in the image of God” in Hebrew is the same.Thanks for that. I never made that connection. I will bear that in mind and look into it when I am led there.

I strongly agree with what Mike says here. There is an order here and to take your view (jb2u), you have to agree with the order, except the first point, that he existed in the form of God.It's like the order of headship between God and the woman. You can take that order of headship, but have to make an exception when it comes to Jesus.I believe…[Read more]

Mike, I noticed that 4Thomas piped in here. This is easy to do due to the lack of t8 and Mike in the topic name or description. If you want to change the description to say the debate is between you and me, then you can do that using the 'Edit this Topic' link at the bottom of the page.Up to you.

Quote (Ed J @ July 01 2013,10:39)2) The “AKJV Bible” was Authorized by the crown (James I) – acting in behalf of  YHVH.Thanks for keeping this humerous Ed J, as the topic states.So all that was authorised by the crown (James 1) is on behalf of YHVH?By that faulty logic, his witch hunts were also on behalf of YHVH. Here is what you must also be…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ July 01 2013,11:14)This is NOT to say that other such “believers” of the trinity were not already spouting about a preexistent Jesus, as surely there were, but this is the earliest writing we have. However, notice that Martyr did NOT quote other “believers” works that “prove” a preexistent Jesus. He did not even quote scripture!! He…[Read more]

No I didn't read that in your debate and your view has to be that these father's were wrong, which is possible of course. For assuredly, many of these fathers were quite clear on their position of Christ existing in the form God as the Word that was with God in the beginning. And why am I not surprised, because this is the conclusion that both…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2013,18:10)t8, if Jehovah is called “the god of gods”, doesn't that title, in and of itself, INSIST that there must be other gods that Jehovah is the god OF?Yes, but if we consider that the Pharisees were gods because they held the seat of Moses, then that is one thing, but to call Nicodemus a god is quite another. If…[Read more]

Could be. I have never thought about it too much, but assumed it was God talking to the Word that he made the Universe through.I don't have a definite view on that one, but thanks for opening up that possibility to me.

Quote (jb2u @ June 30 2013,09:13)I do not believe that the early fathers taught this, if of course we are referring to the Bible. The first created being was Adam; however, the first BORN of God was Jesus. Keep in mind, Adam was NOT born, he was created..so was EVE. So yes, the first born, Jesus, is VERY SPECIAL!!Since I am referring to all the…[Read more]

Genesis 3:5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.Who are these gods?Is this saying, they shall be as God, or shall be as gods?If the latter, then yes that would likely be the sons of God IMO. But it could mean God.

Quote (942767 @ June 16 2013,16:11)Mike, the scriptures state that there is “a first Adam”, and “a last Adam”. Adam = man.Not sure of your point here, but if you just mean man, then Jesus was not the second man. Obviously Adam is referring to the Man. The one whom men originate. You probably agree with that. Not saying you aren't.

Agreed Kerwin. Each book in the bible is different. You only have to read what each book says about itself.The Word of the Lord to…Then I saw what looked like a….I thought it good to write an eyewitness account…All can be inspired, but not all is automatic writing so to speak, or pure recording of a vision. You can be inspired for example to…[Read more]

jb2u,Thanks for showing us what you believe and why. My post below will do the same so you can know from where I am coming from.I am open minded about when Jesus became the son of God.As for pre-existence, I believe that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh, died for our sins, was resurrected to the right-hand of God…[Read more]