Yes Marty,Men have often made graven images and worshiped them as if they were gods all throughout history.Does the fact remain that Jehovah said He was the ONLY rock when we know there exist other rocks? YES.Does the fact remain that Jehovah said there was no god besides Him when we know there exist other gods? YES.Get in line with the…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 21 2013,17:20)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:03)Do you believe Paul was telling us that Jesus was existing in the form/image of God while he was a human being on earth?  Was it at that time that he didn't consider equality with God something to be grasped?Hi Mike:Yes, I do think that he was talking about Jesus being “in…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 20 2013,17:46)No, Mike, I have already discussed all of this with you. The Apostle Paul was looking back at the ministry of Jesus while he was here on earth, and so, yes, it is looking back at this, but saying, “who existing in the form of God…” in order to bring his intent to the fore which is to teach the church about…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 20 2013,17:31)This is not speaking of seeing him with the eye, human or otherwise, God is invisible.Matthew 18:10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.”God is invisible to us, Marty. He is not invisible to spirit b…[Read more]

Quote (Colter @ Sep. 17 2013,18:46)Quote (t8 @ Sep. 18 2013,11:36)Colter. Have you considered believing in Star Wars. There is this dark force thingy and a death star. There is good and bad, and a hairy monster called Chew Tobacco who is actually a nice guy. It's all there mate.Not Star Wars, but it is well known that Geene Rodenberry, who created…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 19 2013,19:44)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 20 2013,12:29)Oh I've got a lot more arguments, Marty.What we've run out of is ANSWERS from you.  Please tell me how Jehovah could say, “THERE IS NO OTHER ROCK”, when we know many rocks exist.Or better yet, simply tell me if His words in Isaiah 44:8 are to be taken LITERALLY by us.Are…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 19 2013,20:30)Mike,Close but he was made in the form of a human which is not consistent with it being the result of him taking on the form of a servant as one is a received action and the other is a performed action.Here is the literal Greek translation:form of slave having taken in likeness of human beings…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 19 2013,20:28)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 20 2013,06:15)Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 19 2013,16:39)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 20 2013,03:40)Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 18 2013,18:12)Quote (mikeboll @ 64)But it's not like the words that came out of King David's mouth were some living entity that people obeyed, KerwinI agree!And the words that come…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 20 2013,06:43)The problem is..John did not “preexist” as Elijah.Jesus clearly said that John is the Elijah who was to come.  He said that Elijah did indeed come, but they did to him what they wanted.  He said these things in reference to John the Baptist.Here are those scriptures again.  Maybe you overlooked them in the last po…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 20 2013,06:34)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 20 2013,10:02)Heb “from the past, from the days of antiquity.”Elsewhere both phrases refer to the early periods in the history of the world or of the nation of Israel. For מִקֶּדֶם (miqqedem, “from the past”) see Neh 12:46; Pss 74:12; 77:11; Isa 45:21; 46:10. For מִימֵי עוֹלָם (mimey…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 20 2013,06:25)“Purposely refuse”? I am not sure why you want to keep using such language with me.It's because I KNOW for a fact that you ARE able to see what I'm saying.  I KNOW for a fact that you CAN see how one could take “existing in the form of God” as something that happened BEFORE “being made in the likeness of a human…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 20 2013,06:25)So..do you believe that He was first in the “form of God” then “in the form of a servant” AND THEN “in the form of man”?He was in the form of God. Then he emptied himself and took on a DIFFERENT form – the form of a servant……… BY “in likeness of human beings being made”.Then he died on a stake. Then he was…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 20 2013,05:44)1) It says “no man” has seen God “except” Jesus..right? So, it is saying Jesus is that MAN who saw God!2) It does not say that He saw God “in a previous life”. It does not say HOW He saw God. COULD it have been in a vision?So we can agree that Jesus is the only human being who was able to say, “I have seen God”,…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 21 2013,12:13)Here would be an example..If it is written..John being wealthy..made himself of no reputation..became a servant..and worked beside the poor.That is a PERFECT example, jb.  Here is the question:  Since the writer is talking about a time when John made (past tense) himself of no reputation, and when he became (past t…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 21 2013,12:13)You can NOT say, “well, since today we can say “existed” means that Paul meant to say “existed.”So the question is:  Did Paul mean to say Jesus was existing in the form of God when he was a human being………… before dying and being exalted?What is your answer?  Was the beginning of Paul's statement about w…[Read more]

Quote (jb2u @ Sep. 20 2013,05:20)For Mike to maintain a chronological order, he has to change the words “existing in the form of God” to “existed” in the form of God. WE, all three of us, tell trinitarians NOT to change words to suit our beliefs, and we should do the same!Instead of putting the burden of “maintaining a chronological order” on me,…[Read more]

Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 20 2013,04:38)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 20 2013,06:19)Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 19 2013,16:10)T8,Philippians does not say “he existed” it says “existing”.“WAS existing” is clearly implied from the past tense form of the statement as a whole.And to say “he was existing in the form of God” is identical to saying “he existed in the…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 19 2013,20:19)And to t8's point relative to the following scripture in another restricted thread:Quote John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.No man up to this point had seen or understood God's true character, but this man who is the Only…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 19 2013,19:50)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 20 2013,12:26)Are all the other things Paul wrote about in that sentence PAST TENSE events?  Yes.  So since the statement AS A WHOLE is a PAST TENSE statement, it means that “WAS existing” is implied in verse 6.And “he WAS existing” means the same exact thing as “he e…[Read more]

Oh I've got a lot more arguments, Marty.What we've run out of is ANSWERS from you.  Please tell me how Jehovah could say, “THERE IS NO OTHER ROCK”, when we know many rocks exist.Or better yet, simply tell me if His words in Isaiah 44:8 are to be taken LITERALLY by us.Are they? YES or NO?