Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 23 2009,09:29)TO KATHI:Kathi,This discussion has caused me to get out my Greek textbooks on the middle voice. The verses in Matthew 20:19 and 27:63 are indeed written in the middle voice. However, the middle may sometimes function as a “middle-passive.” I will get back to you on this. About the passive verb ἠγέρθη in John…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,20:52)Lightenup said:Quote The disciples recalled His words after He was raised from the dead, true.  Look at the verb “raised” and notice that it is in the passive tense:John 2:2222 So when He was raised from the dead…NASUAlso, Jesus told them that He was going back to the Father during His time with them.…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,20:52)Lightenup said:Quote The disciples recalled His words after He was raised from the dead, true.  Look at the verb “raised” and notice that it is in the passive tense:John 2:2222 So when He was raised from the dead…NASUAlso, Jesus told them that He was going back to the Father during His time with them.…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,20:52)Lightenup said:Quote The disciples recalled His words after He was raised from the dead, true.  Look at the verb “raised” and notice that it is in the passive tense:John 2:2222 So when He was raised from the dead…NASUAlso, Jesus told them that He was going back to the Father during His time with them.…[Read more]

Keith,The disciples recalled His words after He was raised from the dead, true. Look at the verb “raised” and notice that it is in the passive tense:John 2:2222 So when He was raised from the dead…NASUAlso, Jesus told them that He was going back to the Father during His time with them. Those were His words also that they remembered. Jesus…[Read more]

Keith,I'm going out with my husband tonight too! Woohoo for date night I fully believe Jesus's words that He raised His body on the third day but I don't believe He did that till AFTER He saw Mary at the tomb on the third day. You see, I don't think that Jesus was saying that He was going to raise Himself to life. He said that He will raise…[Read more]

Thinker,If you believe that Romans 8:9 refers to the Spirit of Christ raising Christ from the dead instead of the Spirit of the Father then show me in another passage that Christ raised Himself from the dead in an active voice. Make it a clear scripture.Kathi

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,21:39)WorshippingJesus said to kathi:Quote That was my point to Marty is that the Spirit in context of Rom 8:8:26, 27 cannot be the Father or Jesus.If you say the Spirit here is the Father then it would not be the Father through the Holy Spirit who gives life to our bodies!Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,06:48)Lightenup said:Quote Keith, No, I don't think you are stupid but I beg you to slow down, get off the defensive, take a breath and analyze the verse. You can go here to see that the article translated “of Him who” is in the masculine singular genitive just like the verb “raised” which is also the masculine…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,05:18)Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 22 2009,14:59)Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 22 2009,13:39)WorshippingJesus said to kathi:Quote That was my point to Marty is that the Spirit in context of Rom 8:8:26, 27 cannot be the Father or Jesus.If you say the Spirit here is the Father then it would not be the Father through the Holy…[Read more]

To all you “old men” out there:Keith said:Quote OK Kathi, I have my oxygen tank on and am taking my time, after all I am 54 and a little slow sometimes, I'm sorry but I just got this in my email and I just had to give tribute to all the “old men” on here that occasionally need to take those oxygen tanks down from the shelf and load up. I hope it…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,19:43)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,18:38)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,15:03)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,14:21)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,12:11)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,10:44)Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42)WorshippingJesus wrote:Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who r…[Read more]

Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,15:11)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 22 2009,04:12)Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,11:19)Lightenup………Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, it can be described as an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. It is still the same thing  the Cow being described by the word (IT)> Good post…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,15:03)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,14:21)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,12:11)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,10:44)Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42)WorshippingJesus wrote:Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead wil…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,12:11)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,10:44)Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42)WorshippingJesus wrote:Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42)WorshippingJesus wrote:Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom 8:11WJ,Good passage. It says that the Spirit raised Christ from ther dead too…[Read more]

Keith,Is your fleshly body an “it” or is it a complete person on its own? Can your mind be intimately associated with your fleshly body? The mind isn't the flesh and the flesh isn't the mind. They are both parts of a person yet they are intimately associated with each other. If you stub your toe, your toe sends messages to your mind and your…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 20 2009,16:46)Lightenup said to WJ:Quote Now, according to some trinitarian reasoning that we have had lately, love must be a person, and since we are to abide in love and love is to be in us, and since God is love, love must be God and that would give us yet another separate person of the ummm trinity?  No, couldn't be…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,16:53)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 20 2009,16:08)WJ,You said:Quote Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “He, him”, the Spirit is a person!Jesus did not use English…sorry.  The translators gave the neuter noun for “spirit” a male gender, we can blame them.  BTW, to base your beliefs on pronouns that are often misleading t…[Read more]

WJ,You said:Quote Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “He, him”, the Spirit is a person!Jesus did not use English…sorry. The translators gave the neuter noun for “spirit” a male gender, we can blame them. BTW, to base your beliefs on pronouns that are often misleading translating from Greek to English is a shaky foundation.