Danny,

My pleasure, I hope it helped!

Blessings, LU

Hi Mike,

Ecc 12:1 – Remember also thy Creators in days of thy youth, While that the evil days come not, Nor the years have arrived, that thou sayest, ‘I have no pleasure in them.’

Father, Son and Spirit, one God in the fullest sense. More than one person, together as God created the universe.

Hi Jodi,

Sorry that it has been awhile…

We are discussing Heb 1 and we are stuck at whether the aggelos are celestial angels or human messengers. I will deal with this point with you right now, other questions that you have, I am not going to address now for the sake of staying on Hebrews 1. You have agreed that the aggelos in Hebrews 1 are…[Read more]

Gene, you have already been asked to not post on this thread and now you have done it again. If you have something to say, please do so in a private message.

@mikeboll64

You asked:

Who actually did the creative work?

The Father through the Son, i.e. both.

It took both to complete the creation therefore, one cannot be considered the creator and the other not the creator.

@Proclaimer

You said:

There is a difference between creating something and creating something through someone.

So if it took two persons to complete the creation process, then one person did not do it alone. Do you agree?

You said this:

One is the creator and the other is the agent.

I disagree.

The Father did not create the world alone.

The…[Read more]

@Proclaimer,

Great post!

Alone with what you have said in the previous post, anyone who teaches that Jesus Christ is not identified by the Father as YHVH who laid the foundation of the earth and that the heavens are the works of the Son’s hands is also denying what the scriptures teach. Hebrews 1:10

LU

Hi Berean,

You said:

Amen

Very interesting Lu
May God continue to guide you

Kind of you, Berean, thanks I will need it!

Many blessings,

LU

Proclaimer,

Great post to Gene!

Blessings, LU

Hi Jodi,

Whether Psalm 8 is about mankind or the one man, Jesus, or both, the word “elohim” in the Psalm is properly translated as “angels” as you have written in your last post.

I am quoting you here:

5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels

You have agreed that these two verses in Heb 1:4 and 2:7 refer to the same types of…[Read more]

Mike,

You said:

My statement is unequivocally true and scriptural. The validity of yours is still undergoing peer-review.

Here is your “peer-review:”

According to the NET Bible notes:

sn You founded the earth…your years will never run out. In its original setting Ps 102:25-27 refers to the work of God in creation, but here in Hebrews 1:10-12 t…[Read more]

Jodi,

Psalms 8 that is quoted in Heb 2, is definitely about mankind, not about the Messiah in particularly.

Psalms 8

4 Of what importance is the human race, that you should notice them?

Of what importance is mankind, that you should pay attention to them?

5 You made them a little less than the heavenly beings.

You crowned mankind with honor…[Read more]

Mike,

You said:

Scripture also says that God created the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them.  Well, God is one of the things in heaven, so therefore God created himself, right?

Actually God wouldn’t ever be said to have “come into being” now would he.

Neither the Father, Son or their Spirit “came into being.” They always wer…[Read more]

Mike,

You said:

Technically, Heb 1:1-2 says that, through his Son, God created the world. We know it is referring to the Father, but the writer explicitly identifies the Son as someone other than the one he identifies as “God” – whom he also identifies as the ONE who created the world.

Technically, it is the one the writer of Hebrews calls “God”…[Read more]

Mike,

Scripture says that nothing was made apart from Him, obviously He was not “made.”

John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.

Mike,

You said:

Does that sum it up? God was an afflicted soul who prayed to his Son for deliverance in Ps 102, and credited his Son with the creation of the heavens and the earth?

Of course, the Father wasn’t the psalmist. In Hebrews 1,the Father was making the connection of what was said in the Psalm to who  actually carried out those acts…[Read more]

Mike,

Heb 1 says that it was through the Son that the Father created the world. The Father gave the vision, the Son carried out the vision to reality. No wonder the Father gives the Son the credit of bringing the creation into reality. One did not do that without the other.

Also regarding this, “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: T…[Read more]

Mike,

Hebrews 1 is a great companion to John 1. Hebrews 1 solidifies that it was the Son (not a plan) that was in the beginning and he was with God, his Father. As the exact representation of the Father’s eternal nature, the Son is also God according to essence. The Father is the head of the Son as should be obvious. Because he is a son of the…[Read more]

Hi Jodi,

You have written soooo much and I know that took a lot of time and so I appreciate your effort. However most of your verses that you understand speaking about earthly messengers or earthly holy ones are translated elsewhere as celestial angels and meant as celestial holy ones, so I can see why you are confused and think that my view of…[Read more]

@Mikeboll64

Mike, you asked me this:

So, the author of Hebrews tells us who created the world, and identifies Jesus as someone other than that One, right? And in the prayer in Acts 4, the Apostles tell us who created the world, and identify Jesus as someone other than that One, right?  And what does Jesus himself say about it?

Mark 13:19…

[Read more]