Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,20:01)kathi,I know people say “Mary gave birth to THE SON OF GOD” – is this a corruption of your idea or is your idea a corruption of their idea?Sonship in Spiritual terms is nothing to do with PROCREATION – because Spirits do not Procreate.Spirits CREATE – but do not PROCREATE – so Sonship is not about a personal…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,19:56)Kathi,Even the Trinitarians (as exampled by WJ and Trinis are by far the largest group of “Eternal Son” believers) do not believe that Jesus was Begotten before time.Until i heard you saying what you are trying to say hear i'd never (thought provokingly) heard of this idea…Kathi, unless i have been placing my…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,16:28)Kathi,Thanks for the understanding and the re-direction.But frankly – No, it does not make any better sense seeing that “Biological Father” is a “Concept”. God would not need to Conceive in the “BODY” but only in Mind and thought (Shhh..Don't let Gene see this idea …)To soften the blow I think you can make a…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,17:01)Kathi,There seems to be a secondary “Poll” in this thread – and that is “hands up everyone who thinks Kathi should drop her idea of Jesus INSIDE GOD”?Kathi, you can still hold your idea – just not foist in on us for we cannot hold it as any kind of truth or reality. You thought you had an idea – we all do – but…[Read more]

Pierre,If you look at the Hebrew you will see how v. 4 needs v.5 to follow it because it completes the thought of v. 4. Just read it how it is and know that the one who was wrestling with Jacob was identified as the Lord God Almighty. I will not go around and around with your switching around the verses because it doesn't fit your views.…[Read more]

Ok…seems like there is some anticipation here on the purpose of this poll.Well, I designed this poll mostly for Istari and my benefit because I was trying to communicate something to him that seemed obvious to me but he couldn't seem to see it. So, I think I have accomplished that somewhat anyway.The fact that I am leading to is that a man or…[Read more]

Pierre,What doesn't it say in those verses?Kathi

Pierre,If the Son was begotten before the ages and existed eternally within the Father before that, this poll helps people see how the Father was a 'Father' before He actually beget His Son. Sort of like a biological father is a father before the child is begotten according to human terms. People wonder how the Father could always have a Son and…[Read more]

Pierre,Then why are you asking me to explain to you?I am not saying that God is a man or that God is an angel. I am saying that the one that wrestled with Jacob was called Jehovah. Jehovah may have appeared as a man from heaven but He is not a man, of course, neither is He an angel being.Maybe you should ask God to explain what I am telling you…[Read more]

Mike,I am just trying to give you understanding of John 1:1c. The other translations do give the word 'with' and that is enough to show that there are two different ones spoken of here. The word 'mighty' is not appropriate either because 'mighty' is not a type of nature, divine is.Kathi

Quote (Istari @ April 21 2011,17:06)Thank you Kathi,My mind was clear because I had already thought of it when it first came up, the first time, second, third and this time.I meant those who are earthbound ensconched in everyday common thoughts on matters.They may say, 'Of course….x y z' because that is their common everyday way of…[Read more]

Mike,If you substitute the word 'God' with 'divine' in 1c then you would clearly see that there is no need for the 'a.'In the beginning was the word and the word was with the God and the word was divine…not 'a divine.' So if John 1c is talking about what the word is, regarding His nature, then 'a' would be out of place…can't you see that?If…[Read more]

Good Karmarie,The question, even for the men was about the 'biological father' and I don't think they can really say that the man becomes the biological father only after birth and be factual. The question wasn't about when the man started acting like a father or felt like a father or found out that they were a father. Do you see that even for…[Read more]

Pierre,Perhaps you should just go to God with the question and read the scripture as written. To me, it is simply identifying the one who wrestled with Jacob as Jehovah and the rest of the verse in that chapter shows how Jehovah is and has been involved with men.Kathi

Quote (terraricca @ April 21 2011,21:27)Quote (karmarie @ April 22 2011,20:15)Biologically is different to actuallity. The unborn child is still growing.Kbiological just means who is the source right ?PierreYes Pierre. The biological father is the one who was the sperm donor. Whether he stuck around or not, he was the biological father.Kathi

Karmarie,The child is still growing after he/she is born. I think you need to re-read the question. If you were going to tell someone that they were the 'biological father' to your unborn child would you have no one to tell that to until the child was born? To me, this is so silly. Surely you wouldn't be telling the guy that he was 'going to…[Read more]

Pierre,I think that this verse:And will punish Jacob according to his ways; He will repay him according to his deeds. shows that Jehovah is ready to punish and repay, whatever is required. I don't think it is talking about a particular incident that Jehovah punished or repaid Jacob for. Kathi

So Pierre, you weren't the biological father when your wife conceived your children, you were only the biological father after their birth? Do you understand what 'biological father' means? If your wife said that you were the biological father when she found out she was pregnant would you say that you weren't?? Someone had to be.biological…[Read more]

Pierre,You can't just decide to remove verses. The 'He' that is in v. 4 is identified in v. 5.Verse 5 is the end of the sentence beginning in v.4.He (Jacob) wept and sought His (Jehovah's) favor. He (Jacob) found Him(Jehovah) at Bethel And there He(Jehovah) spoke with us, 5 Even the Lord(Jehovah), the God of hosts, The Lord(Jehovah) is His name.…

Thanks Irene for voting! I agree.Kathi