Mike,Quote For it to NOT be a vice regent OF God is to say that men have not only seen, but wrestled with God Himself. Now you are getting it Mike. Jesus is deity too!BTW, in the Genesis account of Jacob, there is no mention of an angel. It says that Jacob wrestled with God and at first it mentions Him as a man, no angel mentioned. Since malak…[Read more]

Pierre,Yes, that is what I am saying…the deity of Christ which means that the Son was eternal with the Father. Do you believe in the deity of Christ?

Pierre,Christians all over the world accept the deity of Christ.

Pierre,I am giving you scriptures and explaining to you my understanding. It is up to each of us to be the 'Berean.' Seek God for deeper understanding.God bless,Kathi

Marty,Creatures are by essence 'created' by God not 'born' of God. Creatures are a product of new matter. That which was born of God is not of 'new matter' but was eternal within the Father and then born of the Father at the appropriate time to act in the creation miracle of heaven and earth. The only one born of God created all things…[Read more]

Pierre,Quote witch one of those verses do you not understand?I understand them. Jehovah is both Father and Son…two persons as one deity with their Spirit. Sometimes in the context it is clear that one is seen by man and then that one would be the Son, sometimes it is both collectively, sometimes Jehovah as the Father is referred to. Either…[Read more]

Pierre,It isn't for a lack of trying.Kathi

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 25 2011,11:14)pierre your in denial, take what is said.LU: r u stating that the LORD was in angel?note: i dot have direct internst access so my post will b short and simple bc im posting from my phone which is a pain.Dennison,There is Jehovah, the unseen God the Father…and His image, Jehovah, the only begotten God…[Read more]

Pierre,You are in denial. In Gen 18, Abraham is talking to one called Jehovah. In Hosea 4, it tells us that Jacob wrestled with one called Jehovah, God of hosts. When one changes scripture to fit their imaginations, they make a god out of their imaginations. Just read the scripture and let it stand as it is.The word translated as LORD that I…[Read more]

Well Pierre,The angel's name is Jehovah, God of hosts and if God of hosts, He is not a created angel because the 'hosts' were created by the word of God.Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And by the breath of His mouth all their host.

Pierre and Kerwin,It doesn't say that He is the first of all creation…it says that He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation and then goes on to say that all things came into being by Him.The Son is deity, one with the Father, He is eternal…was always within the Father, not as an act of the will, and then, before the…[Read more]

It is not the new creation spoken of in Col 1:15 but the old creation which is made obvious in the immediate verse which follows.The Firstborn of all creation created all things as the Firstborn, the image of the invisible God, God's only begotten Son born before the ages…the begotten God. God, the Father, so loved His Son and so loved the…[Read more]

Mike, In Gen 18 and in the story of Jacob wrestling with God, this is not an incident of a vice regent. Scripture clearly identifies the one as Jehovah as is made clear in Hosea 4. You must use conjecture to say otherwise.Kathi

Hi Mike,I know you have made a lot of posts to me which I haven't specifically addressed. They have come and gone, so hit me up with just one for now if you would like.Kathi

Kerwin,My understanding of the term pre-existent Son is an only begotten divine Son that has a mind and a will and a spirit…He was within the Father as an offspring that always existed, and then was begotten/born from the Father to work with Him…equal in nature to the Father just like a literal son would be…equally divine.John 3:16 “For G…[Read more]

Pierre,Genesis 18 talks about one of the visitors with Abraham was Jehovah, read it.Hosea 4 which I have been showing you names the one who wrestled with the Jacob was Jehovah, the God of hosts. So if He is called the God of hosts, He is not one of the hosts.Do you see in each of these chapters where Jehovah is the name of one of those that are…[Read more]

Keith,You have argued endlessly over the term 'begotten God' and now you are acting like you didn't. What is your use of the word 'begotten' as a verb?So the Nicene Creed is not the foundation of the orthodox faith. Can you show me where the foundation of the orthodox faith began?Did I ever say that I accept early 'orthodox' trinitarian views or…[Read more]

Pierre,I don't agree with Gill on every point but on the Son being begotten and not created, and also eternal within the Father, then begotten before the ages, I do agree with that. Also that the Son was called Jehovah in the OT and appeared to man as Jehovah in the OT. The Father and Son are both called Jehovah. I don't agree that anyone else…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 23 2011,13:51)Hi All,I voted “I don't know” because it differs from person to person anyway.I will tell you what we all DO know though:  There has never been a known occasion in the history of the world where someone who was brought forth into existence wasn't also subject to a time when he DIDN'T exist.  I exist now b…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 23 2011,13:27)Quote (Lightenup @ April 23 2011,13:07)That is still a mystery, so yes, there still is mystery but I understand a whole lot more than I used to and I am comfortable to call myself a trinitarian according to the early church views,…KathiWow I am glad to hear you are “comfortable to be called a…[Read more]