Hi Mike,Thanks for your thoughts…we have so much we could go on and on about. This is good!Regarding your NET notes, are you prepared to say that God was without wisdom at one point? The Almighty God…without wisdom? Whether or not the word in Prov 8:22 is create, I'm sure that it does not intend to imply that the Almighty God did not have…[Read more]

Hi Keith,Keith's question #1 to KathiCan you show me a scripture that implies Jesus was a “son” in the Father before he came into existence as a begotten Son?This verse implies that He was in the Father and came out from Him…and that He sent Him. The fact that He said to the disciples that He was the Son of God implies that He came out from…[Read more]

OK Keith…I will wait for your first question. Remember, this is only a place for an ongoing discussion between us without distractions from other posters, not some formal debate to try to win. Bless you,Kathi

Hi Mike,Thanks for your answer. I noticed that you did not include all of the default definition that I suggested…the part about the offspring having the same nature as the parent/parents. I will assume that you also agree to that since you didn't say otherwise.Here is another answer to your question #2 to me:Your question #2:But moving…[Read more]

Keith,I like the format that Mike and I are discussing with. Can we do the same? If so, I'll go ahead and open it with a post like I did there and I will let you start with your first question. We will do one question at a time, back and forth, and eventually we will cover your initial posts from here…over there, if you would like. I would…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 30 2011,23:25)Keith,I'm back…my electricity is now working again after 72 hours.  I read through this thread and I think a one on one 'discussion' would be more effective, don't you?  It gets very distracting with all those who deny the deity of Christ posting as well.  I really don't want to debate, just discuss re…[Read more]

Ok Mike,My original question #2:Mike, can you show me a verse that says the first of it's kind is also considered the firstborn of that kind? 'Kind' meaning nature. My question #2 to Mike, restated for better understanding, will be asked in two questions:Kathi's question #2 to Mike:Do you agree that the only begotten Son was a literal offspring…[Read more]

Dear Mike,Let's take a slight time out here to clarify our rules. I think that we should number our questions and answers so that we can clearly see that we are each getting in a question after an answer and label it something like “Kathi's question #2 to Mike, Kathi's answer to Mike's #2 question”. Also, there are likely going to be many times…[Read more]

Mike,Yes, the word was God, in the beginning and we know that the 'word' was the Son who was with the Father in the beginning.Mike, can you show me a verse that says the first of it's kind is also considered the firstborn of that kind? 'Kind' meaning nature.

Mike,Good, remember them for our discussion thread.Kathi

Mike,I started our discussion thread. I will answer you there. Kathi

Pierre,We disagree then. So be it.Kathi

Mike,Can you show me a scripture that tells us that the only begotten Son did not exist before He was begotten before the ages?Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2011,19:16)Quote (Lightenup @ May 01 2011,16:44)Mike,1 Cor 8:6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.For one thing, the 'all things' does not include the one Lord, Jesus Christ otherwise He…[Read more]

Pierre,Deity is not created, Jesus is deity because He is the only begotten Son of God. His nature is not a created nature. He 'came out from thee' and was always within before that. The Father was all sufficient to save from eternity. He didn't have to create a savior to become flesh, He always had that savior within Him.Kathi

Quote (t8 @ May 01 2011,19:27)Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,11:16)Quote (Lightenup @ May 01 2011,16:44)Mike,1 Cor 8:6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.For one thing, the 'all things' does not include the one…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2011,19:27)Quote (Lightenup @ May 01 2011,18:23)You weren't a father before you conceived your son.  The moment after you conceived your son, you were a biological father.  See?  I started this thread so that you could get that and now we are on pg. 22 and you still don't get that.That IS why you started the thread, bu…[Read more]

Mike,Would you like to have a one on one conversation because I have answered your question and it is crazy to get your unfounded accusations. I don't want to jump from topic to topic with you. It would just be easier to have an ongoing conversation in one place about any topic. You ask one question, I answer it, then I ask you one question and…[Read more]

Istari,Quote By your logic, every MAN is a Father, and every Woman is a mother.Only if they have conceived an offspring, Istari. Many men and women have never conceived an offspring but once they have, they are a biological father and mother of an offspring whether or not the baby was miscarried or not. I don't know why you aren't getting this?…[Read more]

Mike,Quote His God has sure GIVEN him a lot of power and authority, eh?His Father and Him were the same in nature and both almighty, one as the Son and one as the Father. Both were Jehovah. Jehovah the Son, our God has given His followers power and authority too.The Father and the Son are the source of our power and authority over darkness. We…[Read more]