Hi William,You are very welcome. It is my pleasure to be considered your true friend and sister in the Lord Quote Yes I believe that when the Father spoke the foundations into place which bought about this manifestation, that it bought about the literal Word of God.Here you have the foundation and the manifestation coming into existence at…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,18:34)jammin?  Kathi?  Read the post right above this one and see if you can find any fault in my and Pierre's reasoning.If not, I'll post my next scripture.Mike,Yes I find fault with your reasoning but we are not discussing Acts 4 yet, even though we have already had this conversation about Acts 4 about 59 times a…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2012,18:11)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,23:10)We both agreed that the term firstborn was literal and that it happened before the ages. What we never agreed on was that it meant first created.I'm sorry Kathi, I misspoke.  You are correct that you and I agreed that Jesus was BEGOTTEN before the ages, not CREATED.…[Read more]

Marty,Do the Targums reflect the understanding of the Jews? Isn't it a paraphrase of how they understood the OT? Isn't 'memra' the Hebrew word for logos? Is the word of the Lord in the OT different than the word of the Lord in the NT necessarily?How is He Lord of all but not Lord of all?Blessings,Kathi

Mike,Quote Are you seriously saying that “firstborn of every creature” CANNOT POSSIBLY be referring to the first creature ever born?If firstborn is literal, it CANNOT POSSIBLY be referring to the first creature ever born. That is true.The argument with Keith and Jack was regarding whether firstborn was literally born or just an appointed firstborn…[Read more]

Ok William. Is the manifestation without choice and completely controlled by the Father or can it choose? Is this manifestation called the Word in John 1:1? Sorry for all these questions but I am trying to understand you.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,23:24)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,22:07)It is IMPOSSIBLE for firstborn to mean first created.Wrong.  Babel was built by Nimrod.  It was the first recorded “kingdom” of the earth, and therefore Nimrod could be said to have been the literal “firstborn of the kings of the earth”.  Does that prohibit Nimrod from be…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,23:02)Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 25 2012,21:58)Mike,It is absurd since no one questions that John the Baptist is created even though scripture attests that both he and Jesus were conceived.Thank you for that, Kerwin.Kathi, did you hear?  John was also both “conceived” and “born”, yet he was still a creation of his…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,22:39)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,21:18)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,22:03)Kathi and jammin,I'm waiting for your 5 answers to the post at the bottom of page 5.  (I've gone back and numbered them after Nick showed me he couldn't count.    Just kidding, Nick)Mike,First we need you to get this, that fi…[Read more]

William,I will answer…it was just dandy to celebrate this man made holiday because it honors what God had done. It gives the glory to God for the event in history like Christmas and Easter do.You probably didn't really want my answer though. I think you are looking for a response from David and Annie and Irene.I hope you get what you are looking…

Thanks William, so does the manifestation have a mind and will of its own apart from the Father, before Mary?Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,22:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,21:18)Do you get this, Mike?Acts 4, Kathi.  Bottom of page 5.Mike,That question requires a yes or a no. You are avoiding the obvious…just admit it so we never have to discuss it again…one simple acknowledgement Mike…yes or no? If no, then there is no point of moving on…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,22:03)Kathi and jammin,I'm waiting for your 5 answers to the post at the bottom of page 5.  (I've gone back and numbered them after Nick showed me he couldn't count.    Just kidding, Nick)Mike,First we need you to get this, that firstborn does not translate as first created and Rev 3:14 does not say 'beginning cr…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,22:04)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,21:02)Mike,Once the cord is cut the baby is still dependent on the mother or a caretaker…for several years.For oxygen and blood, Kathi?Mike,Babies in the womb are individuals, not independent but still the baby is an individual before birth. After birth the baby is dependent…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,22:00)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,20:53)Mike,Rev 3:14 does not say that He is the beginning creation of the creation of God. It says that He is the beginning of the creation of God. You have to add words to come up with your fallacy.What are you talking about, Kathi?  This is what I meant by “mundane”.Unless I…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,21:46)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,20:40)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,20:30)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,19:06)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,19:57)Kathi,When you were born, you were created.  You became a new, INDIVIDUAL creation by being born.The firstBORN of the flock is still a CREATION of…[Read more]

Mike,Quote I won't argue the mundane with you any more.Great, there is no point to argue it or keep claiming that what you are claiming since it clearly doesn't say what you claim. If you keep claiming this then you will have to be shown that you are claiming falsely. Learn.

Mike,Rev 3:14 does not say that He is the beginning creation of the creation of God. It says that He is the beginning of the creation of God. You have to add words to come up with your fallacy.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,20:37)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,19:12)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,20:03)That's EXACTLY what I said, Kathi.  I said that EVEN IN situations like David's, where “firstborn” wasn't literal, but used to show preeminence, he was STILL a member OF the group of which he was appointed the firstborn.Mike,He…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,20:30)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 25 2012,19:06)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2012,19:57)Kathi,When you were born, you were created.  You became a new, INDIVIDUAL creation by being born.The firstBORN of the flock is still a CREATION of God.Mike,I existed before I was born by about 9 months.Kathi,Read the word I capped.…[Read more]