Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2012,21:58)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 28 2012,15:40)Well the Christian's God is the Father with the Son together with the Holy Spirit but Jesus' God is the Father whom He is God with together with the Holy Spirit.So then the disciples of Jesus were not “Christians”?  Because it is they to whom he referred when he said “I…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2012,22:34)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 28 2012,15:45)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2012,20:46)Kathi, is the Father a Lord of other lords?  YES or NO?Could you provide a specific Biblical context for your question and then I will answer that?How about Rev 15:3-4?In that passage, the Lamb calls Jehovah “Lord” twice.  Is the L…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2012,22:02)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 28 2012,15:43)Is the church not one in the Father and the Son?The words are “one WITH”, not “one IN”.  Try it with the right words.Mike,Where specifically does it say that the church is one 'with' the Father and the Son but can't mean one 'in' the Father and the Son?

Mike,You can't admit this:Mike,Now, do you admit that the God of gods and the Lord of lords that the God of gods sent, are one?You have admitted that the God of gods sent the Lord of lords. You also admit that Jesus said 'the Father and I are one.' Why can't you admit that the God of gods and the Lord of lords that the God of gods sent, are one?…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2012,21:49)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 28 2012,15:19)YHWH made Moses AS God to Aaron, YHWH did not make Moses a god to Aaron. Moses was metaphorically like God, not literally.You can ADD the word “as” into the Hebrew of Exodus 4:16 if it helps you to win your argument………… but that word isn't there.  This is just…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2012,20:46)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 28 2012,13:07)I do believe that in other passages the messenger is called YHWH, I don't know that this incident with Manoah is clear teaching that the messenger is actually called God or just thought of as God by a man who doesn't seem to be too clear on the matter.That sounds like…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2012,20:37)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 28 2012,12:36)Exodus 18:12And Jethro, Moses’ father-in-law, brought a burnt offering and sacrifices to God; and Aaron came with all the elders of Israel to eat bread with Moses’ father-in-law before God.So, in what manner were the burnt offering and sacrifices brought to God in the abo…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 27 2012,04:17)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 27 2012,07:03)Gene,The only begotten Son, firstborn over all creation, through which creation came and who has the title 'the First and the Last' would have been eternally existent within the Father and begotten from the Father before all things in heaven and on earth came into being.Like the…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 27 2012,04:08)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,20:15)Well, t8, the 'YHWH Echad' is what I have been calling it and you know this so why do you pretend that you don't? A married couple is two persons but you don't call a married couple a binity. Why must a unity of two persons be called a binity when speaking of God? Do you attach a…[Read more]

Bo,The notion that we may need a savior messiah was planned by the wisdom of God before the foundation of the world, so the possibility of man being deceived/tempted was known.

Here AWHN, I have some scriptures that, if the Holy Spirit was a separate person from the Father and the Son, why isn't He listed in these scriptures?First a quote from Michael Brown…As Michael L. Brown says in Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus,” p. 53:Quote …Is the “Spirit of God” the same as “God”? Yes and no. The Spirit clearly has…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 16 2009,22:37)Trinitarians believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate “being” of the triune God.  I suggest this was not the message of scriptures.  It is never mentioned of the Spirit as being the “third person of the trinity” anywhere in scriptures.  As Michael L. Brown says in Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus,” p. 53…[Read more]

t8-Do you consider those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God and one with the Father, together with the Holy Spirit, as non-Christians?

I'm glad I wasn't there…that would have scared the b'jeebees out of me!

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 17 2012,05:58)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 17 2012,10:26)t8-Where does scripture say that the judges were theos?Where have men been called theos?Where are angels called theos?FatherEphesians 1:3 Praise be to the God (theos) and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 27 2012,20:56)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,21:33)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2012,20:46)Kathi, is the Father a Lord of other lords?  YES or NO?In the context of 1 Cor 8:6, the Father is the God of other gods but not the Lord of other lords…that is Jesus.You have proven nothing.Could you answer the question for…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 27 2012,20:54)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,21:29)The disciples are not one with them as YHWH but one with them as the church.I'm glad you've acknowledge that the disciples will be one with Jesus and his God.I'm not sure where you're coming up with the different meanings of “one with” though.  What scriptural words in…[Read more]

Mike,This is very good…you said:Quote I do admit that the God of gods sent the Lord of lords into the world.Now, do you admit that the God of gods and the Lord of lords that the God of gods sent, are one?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 27 2012,20:49)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,21:21)Being the Son of God equates Him with God the Father in nature and attributes. And how about being the SERVANT of God?  Does that also “equate” him with the God he serves?Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2012,21:21)My point previously was that Jesus doesn't call Himself His…[Read more]

Mike,cont'd:Quote Jehovah made Moses a god to Aaron, and Aaron his prophet. A human being was called god.And, since Moses was the first judge Israel ever had, a judge was called god.YHWH made Moses AS God to Aaron, YHWH did not make Moses a god to Aaron. Moses was metaphorically like God, not literally.