Hi @Carmel

You are right, this thread is based on the word ‘Beginning.’

The ‘Beginning’ in which the creation of God took place is also the Amen, the True and Faithful Witness. Rev 3:14

NASB

“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:

Hi @Carmel

You are right, this thread is based on the word ‘Beginning.’

The ‘Beginning’ in which the creation of God took place is also the Amen, the True and Faithful Witness. Rev 3:14

NASB

“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:<span…[Read more]

@tigger

Once again, thank you for the time it took you to make your post. And, once again, ‘first’ is not an appropriate translation of arche’. I have also never seen it translated that way in any Bible in Rev 3:14. Do you know of a Bible translation that translates arche’ as ‘first’ for Rev 3:14?

God bless!

@kerwin,

Thanks for your explanation. So, are we in agreement that Rev 3:14 is NOT saying that Jesus is the first creation of God when He is called the ‘beginning of the creation of God?”

Also, you are correct that ‘chief’ is an appropriate translation of arche’ among a few other words like: origin, beginning, ruler, etc. The use of the word…[Read more]

BY THE WAY ARE YOU THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN ASK QUESTIONS HERE?

No, we both get to ask questions. So far, I have started this discussion with a question from you, then I answered it, then I asked you a question, and I have not gotten a direct answer to it from you. If you want to move on, then directly answer this question:

Judging from your lack…[Read more]

@t8

you said:

God has no beginning. If Jesus is called a beginning or described as the beginning, it makes him the first.

The ‘beginning of…’ is different than the ‘beginning…’ and you confuse the two. The way you use the word would be an adjective but if you look at the Greek, you will see that the ‘beginning’ is written as a noun and NOT…[Read more]

Kerwin,

I do not understand your rebuttal at all. Sorry.

@kerwin
You seem to be confusing salvation with sanctification. Salvation happens once, when the person accepts Jesus as their LORD and Savior and His redemption of them by His death, burial, and resurrection; it is a free gift offered to all people. Sanctification happens afterward during the maturing of the new believer as they learn to walk…[Read more]

Lo and behold…a teaching about Jesus who is the beginning of the creation of God from Hebraic roots. Look at video one in the series of Yeshua: Genesis to Revelation
from here: http://www.hebroots.org/eddieglc.htm

Yes Terraricca, we can either receive the free gift of salvation that is by grace or reject the free gift of salvation that comes by grace.

@kerwin

you said:

Salvation, whether for the Jew or the Gentile, comes by living by the teachings of the Spirit of God.

If that were so, salvation would not be free but instead, earned. It is by grace we are saved, it is the free gift of God.

Eph 2
1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course…[Read more]

@GeneBalthrop

Judging from your lack of putting up any passage to defend your position, is it fair to say that you cannot find a passage that contains the words “You are my Son, today I have begotten you,” in the context of baptism? Yes or no

I would really like to move on, Gene. Please answer the question and then ask only one question in return.

@GeneBalthrop

once again:

Please answer my question, I am not saying that it is not in scriptures, but it is not in the context of baptism. Look and see. Now if you disagree, show me the passage where it says what you say in the context of Jesus’ baptism.

Either you will be able to show me the passage or not. Then we can acknowledge that and o…

[Read more]

@kerwin
you said:

I agree that Jesus Christ is the first of creation. He is the supreme leader of creation.

I do not agree that the Son of God is the first of creation. He is the beginning of the creation of God. I do agree that He is the supreme leader of creation in heaven and earth.

Beginning may not be the best way of expressing that…

[Read more]

@t8
Begetting a person is a work of the non-creative type. In order to ‘beget’ an offspring, an offspring had to already exist, btw. You can’t bring something ‘forth’ (beget) unless you change it’s position from where it already was.

Prov 8:22
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

God possessed wisdom in the…[Read more]

@miia

I think I agree with you.

Yeah!

The Ten Commandments are still standing, and if anything they have become “harder” (Adultery is lustful thoughts, murder is hating a brother, etc,.) though not harder because it is on our hearts.  We obey, after salvation, because we love God and His Son and because we love our neighbor, not because we have…

[Read more]

@GeneBalthrop

Please answer my question, I am not saying that it is not in scriptures, but it is not in the context of baptism. Look and see. Now if you disagree, show me the passage where it says what you say in the context of Jesus’ baptism.

Either you will be able to show me the passage or not. Then we can acknowledge that and one of us has…[Read more]

@tigger

I do appreciate your efforts however, you are incorrect. For one, you change the beginning as a noun and turn it into ‘first’ which would be an adjective. The grammar doesn’t support your argument. Also, you treat the word ‘creation’ as if it means ‘creatures’ but that would be a different Greek word and it would also be plural. So that…[Read more]

@tigger

I do appreciate your efforts however, you are incorrect. For one, you change the beginning as a noun and turn it into ‘first’ which would be an adjective. The grammar doesn’t support your argument. Also, you treat the word ‘creation’ as if it means ‘creatures’ but that would be a different Greek word and it would also be plural. So that…[Read more]

Once again, the Son is the beginning OF the creation of God, not the beginning creation of God. Learn the difference. One ‘beginning’ is used as a noun and one ‘beginning’ is used as an adjective.