hoghead1,

My intent is to reveal the Trinity is a recent tradition that is based on earlier non-Trintarian tradition. There is no real evidence that John was any more Trinitarian that his contemporaries such as Philo. In fact there is no real evidence Trinitarianism existed until the early third century when Tertullian defended it against…[Read more]

hoghead,

Sorry, Kerwin, but your above post gets the big “Huh?” from me. I’m not sure what your point is here. I thought I made it plain the OT did not claim they worshipped David as a second God.

I am sure that was the intent of your words but you did not literally say it. Instead the letter of your words conflicted with Scripture. I did n…[Read more]

Hogshead,

Trinitarianism was not even established until after the Council of Nicea. The debate there was about whether Jesus was God and even then not everyone was invited and many of those that were did not attend. I suspicion Arius was invited merely because of the Emperor.

Claiming Jesus is God is pure Christianized Emperor cult doctrine…[Read more]

Hogshead,

The words of 1 Chronicles 29:20 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) disagree with you.

Of course they did not worship him as God but that can be seen as the word worship has more meanings than that and we know he is not God.

The corrupt and ignorant could claim the verse implies King David is a second God but they would nerveless…[Read more]

Hogshead,

He might have had Gnostic leanings but he was definitely not a true Gnostic as his idea of a demiurge varied drastically from theirs. To Philo the demiurge is a tool of God so that the later does not act directly with his creation while the Gnostics teach the demiurge rebels against God and makes a flawed creation. In addition Pilo’s…[Read more]

Hogshead1,

You might want to look into him a little as he gives a numeric argument that is definitely Hebraic in nature and not Platonic. He does have some ideas in common with the later though its unclear about how much as he used the way of speech that is hard to understand. He also differs from them.

From John’s way of speech it is clear…[Read more]

Hogshead1,

You might want to look into him a little as he gives a numeric argument that is definitely Hebraic in nature and not Platonic. He does have some ideas in common with the later though its unclear about how much as he used the way of speech. He also differs from them.

From John’s way of speech it is clear their audiences are similar…[Read more]

t8,

Denial is a powerful enemy but your interpretation of the words you quoted because Scripture.

Luke 2:11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Jesus was not the Savior yet but he was also chosen by God to be one. It is just a way of speech.

Hogshead,

The Trinity doctrine is a a respective newcomer. If one follows the older tradition then it is regarded as hearsay as it is not true monotheism. Appealing to tradition to support it is inherently flawed.

hogshead1,

I Chron. 29 does not say they worshipped David, however. Jn. 10 has to be taken in the context of the prologue, which clearly does establish that Christ is God. Also, note Jn. 10:30. Jn. 10:34-35 is using “gods” in the sense of superior ones or leaders.

I have to disagree as the words “bowed down their heads, and worshipped the…[Read more]

Toggle,

I chose to use first because of its vagueness. It more properly represents the Koine Greek word.

Hogshead1,

The early Trinitarians identified Christ with God simply because there is no way you could have all the qualities of God and not be God. That doesn’t even begin to make sense. Sorry, but it doesn’t.

It may not make sense to you but it made sense to at least one of John’s contemporaries by the name of Philo.

The best I can say is…[Read more]

Toggle,

My source is biblehub.com though it has some weaknesses. One is that its definition are sometimes cluttered and so hard to read. I might do more research elsewhere.

Togel.

For reasons of there own the translators get inventive with the words eimi which often translated to I am.

I was actually looking at the Koine Greek and seeing which ones go with it. Some could go with it by a stretch but there is no word that could be translated to “born”

The prime words I consider in question are emprosthen (root:emp…[Read more]

Togel.

For reasons of there own the translators get inventive with the words eimi which often translated to I am.

I was actually looking at the Koine Greek and seeing which ones go with it. Some could go with it by a stretch but there is no word that could be translated to “born”

The prime words I consider in question are emprosthen (root:emp…[Read more]

Toggle,

I started out with Scripture first and later found Philo who agreed with what I found is Scripture but introduced a new viewpoint of it.

Toggle,

I see where you already did what I asked.

John 1:30 reveals bias on the part of some of the translators so it is easy to become confused by it.

Two words are used one that means before as in “to be in front of” and the other that means first.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“This is The One of whom I said: ‘After me a man is coming a…

[Read more]

Toggle,

John the Baptist clearly says that Jesus predates him.

No he does not but that is how you have been taught to understand his words. They can be understood other ways.

I can’t remember the words or the address so if you could direct me I would look at it again.

hogshead,

was a form of the word be.

Simple Definition of be

—used to indicate the identity of a person or thing

—used to describe the qualities of a person or thing

—used to indicate the condition of a person or thing

Many teach that was means that the word has the identity of God but doing so there reveal there ignor…[Read more]

Hogshead1,

God’s own self-evolution from unconsciousness and mere potentiality into self-consciousness, personality, and self-actualization?

That sounds like the Egyptian polytheistic image of God , as they claimed he created himself.

I have never heard it from the Hebrews or from Scripture. Instead Scripture claims he does not change.