Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Mar. 25 2012,06:52)Note that in the above verse that you posted “the beginning and the firstborn” is in reference to the NEW CREATION and not in reference to Father Yahweh creating the heavens and the earth and ALL THINGS IN THEM in the BEGINNING (GENESIS). The word 'Genesis' means 'Beginning' and is in reference to Father…[Read more]

Toby………To me Jesus is a SON of MAN while angels are not sons of Men. That alone should rule Jesus out as being the Angel Michael, or any other angel, unless you believe as Jw's, Trinitarians. and Preexistences do. These all believe Jesus was MORPHED from another state of existence from an angel or God or demigod. None of them think Jesus was…[Read more]

Toby……….the problem i see is no scripture say Jesus' body was ever Changed after his resurrection, it speculation at best. We truly do not know that he became a Spirit “being” of any Kind or type. As far as a Body being transformed by Spirit i am not convinced Spirit itself can do that . I know “Yahweh” our God who creates and uses Spirits…[Read more]

Mike……….Also go read where Mosses was complaining to God about carrying the Isrealites as a women carrying a child, and see what happened, He told Moses to gather 70 men of Israel and bring them to the tent of the meetings and he would descend and Take of the Spirit he had put on Moses and also put (IT) upon them and they would help Him with…[Read more]

Kerwin………..It is the Same thing that “died” that is quicken (brought back to Life) A Seed is not changed into a different seed it is Quickened back to life from the Life which is still in it's Body (the sees) This is also true with thoses who have th Sprit of Life (IN) them. Now if the spirit that raised Jesus from the dead Be (IN) you (your…[Read more]

Kerwin……….Go and read the valley of dry bones and see what is raised up , and it say there that that was the “WHOLE” house of Israel. No scripture shows a RESURRECTION With out a BODY>  Kerwin now notice every word written here in Eze 37:3……>” and he said unto me, Son of Man, (now notice Kerwin carefully) can these “BONES LIVE”? And I…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 22 2012,05:03)Hi GB, You mean a body without a spirit is dead?Nick……….That is true a body without a Spirit (IN) it is DEAD. The resurrection is a Body and Spirit added to it again . But is is not a resurected Spirit becasue a Spirit does not Die, it is the Body that must be resurected in order for a person to…[Read more]

Toby………I believe………..John was carried (IN) thought to the day of the lord, he was not actually there. Revelation is call Revelations becasue it is Spirit reveled. His “being” (body and Spirit) was on the Island of Patmos . Spiirt is Spirit and is never a Body of any kind, I think we do agree on that. You gave a example of all the…[Read more]

Kerwin………..Exactly as Nick Said if Jesus original body was not raised then it would all be sham and complete con job. He went to great links to show it was his body that was raised from the grave and was alive for evermore. Not one scripture says Jesus body was transformed into a “Spirit Body”. The whole message is about attaining to the…[Read more]

Toby……….Sorry for the confusion ,what i meant was Angels did not exist (UNTIL) God made a Body and then Put the type of Spirit he wanted to (IN) those Bodies , exactly like us after we are resurected. We will still have Bodies and Spirit in them so we will again after death be a living Soul again. Remember Scripture say To each God give it a…[Read more]

Toby……….It is my opinion they (Angles simply did not exist, God made them Bodies and added SPIRIT (intellects) in those “bodies” but that does not make “THEM” (just Spirits) no more then were Just Spirit. I believe, they like us are a mixture of a Body with Spirits (IN) them basically the same as we are only their bodies can not die. So that…[Read more]

Toby…………….Psa 104:4…..> Who makes his angels spirits: his ministers a flaming fire. The word for angels used there is Mal-awk' in Greek and says It is from an unused root meaning to dispatch as a duty; a messenger; specifically of God, that is , an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher:- ambassador, angel, king, messenger. Basically…[Read more]

Mike…………Our disagreement is the “TYPE” of Bodies Angels have ,  Not do they have bodies or not, You well know this by now right?Mike this thread is about DO SPIRITS (HAVE) BODIES, that is the Issue here. So the word  BODIES is the QUESTION and (ARE) SPIRITS “BODIES” I Maintain SPIRITS are not and never were “BODIES” of any type. Spirits g…[Read more]

Kerwin and Pierre………..So produce scriptures where Jesus said a person is still alive after He dies, Isn't that a OXYMORON, How can you be alive and dead at the same time. When Jesus said to his apostles Lazarus sleeps they assumed he was also still alive and the what did Jesus say “HE IS DEAD” and that does not mean alive in anyones…[Read more]

Frank………..You have presented it EXACTLY Right brother.Peace and love to you and yours……………………………………………………gene

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2012,11:29)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 18 2012,12:56)Mike………..You ask how we would define the word GOD, I can give you my definition of the word , and will But now first give us YOUR Clouded one first. Then i will give you MINE>  From the first meaning of the word GOD it self.  I am Waiting?From Webster's D…[Read more]

Toby………..Metaphysical as i understand the word is to apply something invisible to something visible.  Like a Stone Statue having a (REAL) invisible Power. such as false GODS of the Pagans. A term which Plato and Aristotle framed for the Greeks in their Metaphysical reasonings. Metaphorical language is to use and analogy of something using…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2012,11:12)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 18 2012,12:50)Mike………Answer to question one No i do not think DEMONS are Satan  Angels. Then you need to re-read the scriptures, Gene.  The Jews accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebul, the leader of the demons.  (Beelzebul is Satan – just so you kn…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2012,11:20)Quote (toby @ Mar. 18 2012,15:55)If you believe symbolism to be factual (Like Jesus being a 'Lamb as if slaughtered – and – a man with a double edged sword for a tongue…………….Don't fall into Gene's trap, Toby.Just because spirit sometimes refers to what's inside a person doesn't mean it always…[Read more]

Mike………..You ask how we would define the word GOD, I can give you my definition of the word , and will But now first give us YOUR Clouded one first. Then i will give you MINE> From the first meaning of the word GOD it self. I am Waiting?peace and love………………………………………….gene