T8…..You couldn’t be more wrong, even if you tried to imo. On the one hand you say God is Soverign, and on the other you say we are soverign, you have no scripture that backs that up. T8 i see you did not read my post to you to study the scriptures i ask you to read did you? Rom 9:6-23 please do this and tell us what that means to you.

Another…[Read more]

T8……..again you are not understanding what i have said, i am not talking about us not having liberty to excersie our “captivated” will’s , you seem unable to precieve this, why is that?

peace and love to you and love………….gene

Kerwin…..Correct, therefore the will itself is not free, it’s the liberty to EXCERCISE THOSE DRIVEN DESIRES that is free. You are not disagreeing with me brother. Your intelctual emotional desires, are what make up your will. What drives those is what forms our WILLS, be it from God or from the world. John said all that is in the world , the…[Read more]

Journey………You have it right, God know from our very beginning that we would seek him in our hearts, he created us that way, just as he said about Jacob AND Esau. Everything in creation works by cause and effect, rather physical things or spritural things. This is evident and seen in all of creation. Journey there are many, many, scriptures…[Read more]

Kerwin……desires and wills are certainly linked, without a desire there would be no will and in that case the will would be truly free, but no such case exists in man. IMO

Still waiting for T8 TO RESPOND TO THE SCRIPTURES I ASK HIM TO READ AND THIS TIME STUDY THEM. Iwould good for all involved in this descusion to really read the and see how…[Read more]

T8…..wrong, i don’t expect you to agree with our will are not themselves free, because most of all mankind believes that, not just you. But that does not change the truth that the will of man “ITSELF” IS FAR FROM FREE, and i am not the only who know This, i gave you a site that produces all kind of scriptures backing this up, but you and others…[Read more]

T8….at the end of the day, what part of these scriptures you believe or belive not. Read them and get back to me on this OK?

Rom 9:16,…….SO THEN IT IS NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, NOR OF HIM THAT RUNNETH, BUT OF GOD THAT SHOWS MERCY.

And while your at it, read these also,

Rom 9:6-23……., And please study it and see how it fits you…[Read more]

T8….at the end of the #ay, what part of these scriptures you believe or belive not. Read them and get back to me on this OK?

Rom 9:16,…….SO THEN IT IS NOT OF HIM THAT WILLETH, NOR OF HIM THAT RUNNETH, BUT OF GOD THAT SHOWS MERCY.

And while your at it read these also,

Rom 9:6-23……., And please study it and see how it fits you…[Read more]

Kerwin……Remember i have said all along, i am not saying we do not have liberty to excercise our influenced and captivated wills, i am talking about what is forming those wills and so the WILL’S themselves are not free at all, but are held captive by what is driving them. That is my point brother.

PS….Not to change the subject ,but you…[Read more]

CAMILLIA……God not only predicts the future he causes it TO HAPPEN. Our futures are not a “spin the wheel Vana” THING, if that were the case God could never be sure of what anyone would do, ever, because to let a person exist in a freewill state means, you have no control of him, much less over him. God could not actually be SOVERGIN if that…[Read more]

Kerwin…..But who put that will in them in the first place, God did, nothing free about it, the desire for that food was put their by God. So the fish and the pigions were only following what was all ready preexisting in them placed there by God. Same with us, we are driven by the forces working in our hearts, some desires are stronger then…[Read more]

Kerwin…..But who put that will in them in the first place, God did, nothing free about it, the desire for that food was put their by God. So the fish and the piggions were only following what was all ready preexisting in them placed there by God. Same with us we are driven by the forces working in us some desires are stronger then others and…[Read more]

Carmilla…….my dad taught me when you point your finger at some one else lokk down and you will see yoy have three fingers pointing back at you. I think what you have sujested Pierre to try may help him get along better here, i hope so. I hate to see people get discouraged and leave the site. We need to try to all get alone the best we can, we…[Read more]

Carmilla……The reason that we still sin is as Paul said sin dwells in our members, he recon this present state as a wretched state we now live in, because to will is present in our flesh, that is why he said, ” the good that he would (or willed to do) that he did not do, but that evil he would (willed not to do) that he did, and because of that…[Read more]

Kerwin and camillia……..what ever “CAUSED” YOU to chose God in the first place was from God, he drawed us to JESUS, WE DID NOT CHOSE HIM ON OUR OWN, JUST AS JESUS SAID HE DID, that is why you desire or will to make those choices. If this were not true, then how could God ever predict what a person would do before their berth and exactly what…[Read more]

Terricca……..i believe i have been on more construction jobs then you ever have in fact i owned a large electrical construction co, for 29 years and i have worked many, many,many journeymen and men who were not at that level , i knew all my men and exactly what they were capable of. I also have employed many farm worker to harvest my vineyards…[Read more]

CARMILLA……..SO YOUR SHIMMER, i did not realize that, i always liked your posts , i know i might not always agreed with all of them, but i aways liked how you stuck up for good brothers who have left the site. I have seem many good brothers and sisters who have left the site over the years. It’s good to know that you were shimmer i still like…[Read more]

Terricca……Whats sad is you actually believe that. Show me where my opinions oppose the word of God or have slandered him or his words or slandered any scriptures, I just oppose the way you inturpet them to meet you own false dogmas. You speak but produce not a shread of evidence to your accusations, simply put, you are a liar and a false…[Read more]

Terricca…..if you don’t conceder yourself a master, then why go around condemming others as if you are of the truth and they are not. You do not act like a servant, nor does you mannor of speech refelect it either, you come here condemming everyone who doesn’t see scripture the way you do, as if you have some special knowledge and we are…[Read more]

Carmilla……..lets take a real close look at the scripture i posted. What does it say “clearly”?

It says, GOD “WORKS” IN US, “BOTH” TO “WILL” AND DO OF “HIS” GOOD PLEASURE.

Now if God works “in” us to “will” then who i causing our wills to do his good pleasure? Is it not God himself?
Now we also have scripture that says

1John 4:4…. “YE ARE…[Read more]