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[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

Hi DT,

YOU: Nothing is written that says the Messiah was to come, do nothing, leave for a couple millennia, and return one day. Why do the Jews reject the Jesus as the Messiah; he never did what was prophesied and there is no verse that says the Messiah was to come twice.

ME: Just to pull what I said all together in my last posts that was in reply to your statement above.

You say he did nothing, does the NT say he did nothing? NO! He fulfilled Isaiah 61, having God’s Spirit come upon him, making him into the righteous servant, where he then went out and preached God’s word of salvation and God’s kingdom. Jesus, the righteous servant and a prophet, prophesied of the future, which was of his own death for the sins of others, a fulfillment of Isaiah 53, of his resurrection and of a second coming where he fulfills at that time giving judgment, destroying the wicked, giving the Spirit, restoring Israel and establishing world peace. The only way for your argument to work for you, “no verse that says the Messiah was to come twice”, is if you also argue that a prophets prophecy must have already been given and written, which then how does that work with you exactly?

In your previous post you quote Deut 18:18-19 and make the presumption it’s pointing to the Jesus; did you read 15-22, it’s speaking of future prophets God will be sending. In the same post you speak of a “second coming” and it being “astonishing news”, is that the way the Jewish people would have understood the writings of the prophets in Jesus’ day and would a messiah who comes twice have been the understanding prior to the Jesus?

Isa 61:1-2 how do you get the Jesus or a Messiah reference when Isaiah is the one who is speaking? I would highly recommend reading the entire chapter and not two verses. This passage is quoted or should I say misquoted in Luke 4:18-19 by the Jesus. The original passage in Isaiah says nothing about “recovering of sight to the blind”; but Luke adds this in and this isn’t corruption!?!?!?

Prophets were “commissioned” by God to deliver HIS message to the nation and the Jesus gave his supposed prophecies to primarily his disciples; but never to the nation.

You say the Jesus prophesied of his own death for the sins of others; I’ll ask again, when did God change his mind and say the innocent can take on the guilt of the wicked?

You say the Jesus will restore Israel when he returns, is that all Jewish people or only those who believe in Jesus?

One of these burning questions I’ve had is why will the Messiah provide a sin offering for himself and all the people? (Ezk 45:22) If the Jesus was sinless and is currently in heaven, what sin offering does he need to bring for himself?

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

Hi DT,

YOU: To say he will accomplish what was prophesied when he returns is improvable. Nothing is written that says the Messiah was to come, do nothing, leave for a couple millennia, and return one day.

ME: Do nothing???????

Do we say he did nothing? We believe through God, according to God’s will, plan and by the power of His Spirit, that Jesus fulfilled Isaiah 53 for starters.

Are you listening to yourself? So thus it sounds like you ought not believe in any prophecy until it is fulfilled.

If only Isa 53 was speaking of the Jesus…let’s try again.

The “servant” is mentioned in Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3 and it’s not a reference to a “messiah”, let alone the Jesus; but a reference to Jacob and Israel. Please explain how the servant changed from Jacob and Israel to the Jesus in 53, when in the chapters leading up to chapter 53 say the servant is Jacob and Israel?

Who are the “witnesses” and “my servant” in Isa 43:10; start reading in verse 1.

You like the “servant” of 42:1, but your “servant” is also blind verse 19.

In Jer 30:10, Jacob is called “my servant.”

In Jer 46:27&28 Jacob is called “my servant” again.

Read Luke 1:54 “He has helped Israel his servant”, once again the servant is explicitly stated to be Israel.

Why do you think I keep asking who is speaking where in Isa 52:13-53:12; knowing this helps with understanding the entire passage. In 52:13-15 the speaker is stating the servant will be elevated and this will “startle” many nations leaving the nations kings speechless. The kings then gain an “understanding” to the elevation of the servant. 52:15 says “kings shall shut their mouths For they shall see what has not been told them, and they shall consider with full attention what they have not heard.” The next response in 53:1 can only be the kings of nations asking who will believe what they came to understand (“our report”). Please explain how the “our” could possible be the disciples or the prophets speaking in 53:1; how does one go from shocked kings to disciples/prophets giving an unbelievable report? Do you begin reading a book in the middle?

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

In the following “You” being myself and the “Me” being yourself

Yes, of course Jesus would need to meet all of the requirements, not just one which is why I provided a response to each of the requirements that you gave.

YOU: The reason the passage about the Messiah being Jewish is included, is because it’s a requirement; why would I leave it out?

ME: The passage was Duet 17:15 and it speaks nothing about a requirement of the Messiah needing to be Jewish. The passage requires that the kings over Israel needed to be of Israel.

I am wanting to hold you accountable for asserting a passage says something when it in fact absolutely does not,

I’m really not following your “gotcha moment”; it’s like you’re saying the Israelite’s aren’t Jewish. To me it appears you’re playing pretend, intentional ignorance. Are the Israelite’s of the Tanakh Jewish or not? Again, Paul tells us there isn’t a difference between Jew or Gentile; was Paul speaking of a single tribe – HARDLY! He was speaking of the nation of Israel; but you already know this. You go tell a Jew they aren’t Jewish because they don’t live in Israel; besides, the passages states “who is not your brother” and it’s their Jewishness that connects them, wherever they are. Again READ Ezra 9,10!!

Your last statement to hold me “accountable” is laughable! I’m still waiting for how Isa 7:14 is a fulfillment of the birth of the Jesus when it’s clearly NOT when read in context. The fact the writer uses the Isaiah passage as a prophecy pointing to the Jesus is deception, thus making the writer a liar and destroys the claim the NT is the “inerrant, inspired word of God” and repeating the “inspired” lie over and over again will never make it truth!

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

The reason the passage about the Messiah being Jewish is included, is because it’s a requirement; why would I leave it out? This wasn’t suppose to be “gotcha” moment! Out of the “list”, the Jesus fulfill one item. The Messiah can’t miss a single requirement outlined in the Tanakh and still be called the Messiah and since he only met one, it disqualifies him as being the true Messiah; he MUST do all of them. To say he will accomplish what was prophesied when he returns is improvable. Nothing is written that says the Messiah was to come, do nothing, leave for a couple millennia, and return one day. Why do the Jews reject the Jesus as the Messiah; he never did what was prophesied and there is no verse that says the Messiah was to come twice.

Rev 1:1 creates another problem for this returning of the Jesus,“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass.” It been 2000 years; not really a “short” amount of time. To say time is irrelevant to God and it’s in God’s timing is only an excuse because the Jesus was speaking to a man who would have understood the events spoken in Revelation to actually mean these events were to take place “shortly”, meaning soon, not two millennia into the future. Let’s not forget the words of the Jesus in Matt 24:34 when he created another issue after saying, “Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.” The temple was destroyed during their generation and Jesus never returned. It’s was a lie!

The major question remains, is the Jesus is the true Messiah; if he is, then why didn’t he accomplish ALL that was spoken of the Messiah while he was here; since he didn’t accomplish all that was prophesied, how can he claim to be the Messiah? It’s a tough pill to swallow, I struggled for months with what I started finding and if you would take the time and verify for yourself the things I have been writing…who knows what you’ll discover. Don’t let fear of the unknown control your life; begin verifying what is spoken of in the NT and ask if it actually aligns with what is written in the Tanakh. You really need to look into Noahide. I wish someone would have told me sooner; I wouldn’t have wasted 40 years of my life following an idol.

Concerning Isa 53, I asked for patience as I was going to speak on that separately; but you keep demanding it. Sorry, I have a life outside this forum that requires my attention more. I will definitely be writing on this “soon”, as understood by the christian world.

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

In the following “You” being myself and the “Me” being yourself continued from post #946829:

YOU: NO, I meant IMPROVABLE; because you cannot prove “in vitro” fertilization is what happened. This is a creation of your mind and is the most “logical” solution for you because we cannot have God impregnating mortal women because that’s what happened in the pagan religions of the day (Roman and Greek).

You go on to quote Is 7:14 as proof; yet, when one reads this chapter and the next, it has nothing to do with any messianic prophecy.

ME: You seem to have left out that my proof begins with how Matthew directly tells us that he is giving us the genetic line of Jesus to show how he is a genetic son of Abraham and David, where that genetic line that connects Jesus to Abraham and David, according to Matthew, is through Joseph, who was betrothed to Mary. Now if there were no further scriptures given about the conception of Jesus what is common sense? That Joseph and Mary would have come together so that Jesus could be exactly what the scripture say, a genetic son of Abraham and David through Joseph. But it turns out that there is more scripture about Jesus’s conception, do those details change at all the truth given in the prior scriptures? NO No matter how Jesus is conceived exactly, we are given that he is a genetic son of Abraham and David through Joseph. You and others just want to flat out ignore this fact directly provided from Matthew, you because you want to discredit Jesus as the Messiah and others because they want to make Jesus into a false god and some sort of hybrid one of a kind being. According to Matthew God didn’t impregnate Mary like that of a pagan god of mythology and impregnate her with His seed to create another god, some sort of hybrid being. God performed a miracle, where without Joseph and Mary coming together, He made Jesus a bio son of Joseph through the power of His Spirit, making him as Matthew tells us, a bio son of Abraham and David through Joseph.

Were do I begin? Your genealogical “proof” isn’t “proof” as it falls flat when Jechoniah was added into the line since his kingship was removed by God and there are no passages that state he was ever restored as a king (prediction: your entire focus in a response); so could any of his descendants have been inline to become king?

You go on to say “You and others just want to flat out ignore this fact directly provided from Matthew.” Who are the “others” and what “fact” of the lineage account am I ignoring? What’s being ignored is Jechoniah’s kingship was revoked and a revoked kingship means their descendants can’t be king either. Besides, how can I or anyone trust what the writer of Matthew says when they misuse Isa 7:14; do you trust those who distorts the truth?

Continuing on, you talk about Jesus’s conception and you “believe” the spirit took the biological “seed” from Joseph and planted it in Mary to impregnate her to connect the Jesus back to David, because Joseph “planting” his seed himself wouldn’t have been good enough? God had to have a “miraculously conception” and couldn’t wait a few more months for the two to come together? Why would God have to have the Jesus conceived supernaturally verses letting the two of them come together and make a baby the “old fashion” way? What would the significance of the “virgin” be? We can’t say purity, because we have “original sin” and no one is “righteous”, not one according to Paul.

Reading Isa 7:14 “Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.”

To whom has this sign been given? The answer is found in verse 10, King Ahaz.

“The young woman is with child.” So this woman is pregnant and standing with King Ahaz and Isaiah.

“she shall call his name Immanuel.” When was the Jesus ever called “Immanuel”; the angel told Mary to name the child “the Jesus.”

This verse speaks in their time and is a prophecy given to King Ahaz; why would Ahaz care about an event that is happening 700 years into the future when he’s about to be invaded. The fact the writer of Matthew hijacks this verse to say what it was never intended to say, makes the writer of Matthew a liar. What is sad is the modern church doubles down on the “virgin birth” lie (especially at Christmas) and calls it truth. Need more proof the writer lied, look at chapter 2:15 “out of Egypt I called my son”; this comes from Hosea 11:1 and explicitly states the “son” is Israel and not a “messianic figure” being called out of Egypt. Exo 4:22 further confirms Israel is God’s son AND HIS firstborn. Please explain how these passages from the Tanakh and their usage in the NT aligns!

Did you ever look up the difference for the Hebrew words “almah” and “betulah”?

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

In the following “You” being myself and the “Me” being yourself from post #946829:

YOU: Jewishness is represented by the fact the child’s mother is Jewish and has nothing to do with tribal association. We can say the Jesus’ mother is Jewish, thus making him Jewish. The contention is his daddy, because the father is who determines tribal association ( Numbers 1:2). So being Jewish doesn’t mean your from the tribe of Judah. Guess again.

YOU: He must be Jewish

“…you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you.” (Deuteronomy 17:15)

ME: Go do some research on the word Jew, you really think that the word Jew doesn’t come out from the word JU-DAH one from that tribe? Seems that you have gotten lost from tying this into your original point where the Messiah must be Jewish and you site Deut 17:15 as some sort of proof.

Deut 17:15 14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me; 15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.

God is speaking to the people of Israel, the 12 tribes. Where in this passage do you see that God is saying the Messiah must be Jewish by his mother? Please explain. I guess it would have been better if I had just focused first on the scripture you provided. I think it’s a good point to mention that after God spoke these words about Israel’s king, their first and second kings were of the tribe of Benjamin which further makes your assertion as to what this scripture is saying completely nuts.

You say, “guess again”, what on earth are you talking about? The fact of the matter is that I believe NT scripture that shows that Mary was of the tribe of JU-dah and thus indeed would be considered Jewish and you said, “Jewishness is represented by the fact the child’s mother is Jewish” and your original post said that Jesus must be a Jew. By your own words, Jesus then meets what you have laid out as an OT criteria.

In this dialog the origins of how a name is formed is irrelevant, what is relevant is who this name represents, and it represent the Jewish nation, the nation of Isreal and NOT a single tribe. Are you saying when Paul stated there was no difference between Jew and Gentile only referred to the tribe of Judah, what about the other eleven? Of course not, he was referring to the Jewish people as a whole. The fact you fail to understand the simple words spoken in Deut 17:15 is truly stunning! this king must be OF Israel and not a foreigner; you even quoted that part. Isn’t the Messiah to be king and rule over Israel? So this Messiah king MUST be Jewish as my simple statement reads.

Moving thru this you asked “Where in this passage do you see that God is saying the Messiah must be Jewish by his mother?” You may want to read Ezra 9,10; the men sent their wives AND children away because they broke God’s command of marrying a foreigner. If the children are Jewish because of the father, why were they also sent away? It’s from here the Jews get their “Jewishness” is maternal.

You final statement is a whopper!! “their first and second kings were of the tribe of Benjamin which further makes your assertion as to what this scripture is saying completely nuts.” There first king was Saul from the tribe of Benjamin; there second king was David from the tribe of Judah and that is where it has remained to fulfill Jacob’s prophecy. Who’s nuts!?!? The passage I quoted explicitly states “of your brethren”; not from a specific tribe, but one from the Israelite nation.

Your final paragraph makes me speechless thinking you somehow caught me being contradictory; did you miss when I said “We can say the Jesus’ mother is Jewish, thus making him Jewish.” I TOLD YOU THE JESUS WAS JEWISH BECAUSE HIS MOTHER WAS JEWISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,
You: Our God gives mercy upon mankind otherwise, we’d all be brute beasts.

Me: Aren’t we created in the image of God? If we ignore God’s natural law of the “knowledge of good an evil”, we can become wicked. To call us beasts, is a stretch

You: our hope is in having God’s Spirit also lead us in all the ways we should go.

Me: You have to “hope” to have God’s spirit lead you; aren’t you and every other christain “filled with the spirit”? Can you explain why don’t live as the Jesus did if you are “filled” with the spirit? The Jesus was sinless, why aren’t you? To say he was filled “without measure”, sounds like a selfish God who gives a “teaser” of what/who the spirit is to the followers of Jesus. Wouldn’t God want everyone to be like his son…perfected?

You: what would you say could be considered the most powerful influence over us…fear of death

Me: Death is an example; fear is the most powerful influencer. Fear can get you to do most anything you wouldn’t normally do. Governments across the world just got most people to do their bidding, put masks on the healthy, distance yourself from others, stay at home, don’t go to work or school, and get filled with an untested serum, that none of the manufacturers know what the side effects are, or loose your job. Fear is also good because it creates a boundary between doing something stupid or not or prevents one from putting themselves in harms way. Fear is a natural thing; God put it into all of us.

You: But what is the ultimate truth? We must serve God in order to obtain eternal life.

Me: What do you do to “serve God”? It’s a serious question, what does your service to God look like in your daily life?

You: When Jesus went to the cross unto his death this power was destroyed and it demonstrated the power of influence of God’s Spirit upon him. Jesus served God above his own will that is aroused by weak mortal flesh, even as he was mocked, spit on, beat and nailed to the cross. The Spirit in him was a calling to unrelenting faith to which he demonstrated for us all on the cross. We are told that the man Jesus was perfected by that which he suffered, it was an ultimate test of His faith in God and as said ultimate demonstration to the power of the works of God’s Spirit in man. Jesus believed that God would indeed raise him from the dead and make him a firstborn of many. Jesus’s reward was to no longer have a body that had to serve the flesh in order to survive, no longer have a body that could feel hunger and pain and could die, he was set free of that weak mortal flesh and was given an immortal body free to serve God alone. God’s punishment to Adam and Eve that thus fell upon all of mankind was necessary, necessary in order for mankind to come to the knowledge that our Creator is the Source, source to wisdom and truth, righteousness and life everlasting. In our weakness God could make His powers known.

Me: Now provide scripture to back up your sermon.

[DesireTruth]

@Gene,

You: with your reasoning then, HOW can “anything” be “preordained”

Me: This make no sense, you seem to be missing a word or two or misspoke. I never suggested “nothing” couldn’t be preordained; I quoted Peter and John saying the Jesus’ death WAS preordained/foreordained. Foreordained means an inevitable, predestined, or established beforehand event. If the Jesus’ death was foreordained from creation, the Jesus was predestined to die at a particular point in history determined by God; just because God knows it’s going to take place is irrelevant as God know everything before it happens and controls when and what will take place (Isa 46:9-11, Isa 14:24, 27). What is relevant is whether or not the Jesus had any control over his death. According to aforementioned passages, the answer is no. Can God’s plans be thwarted, not according to Job 42:2; if the plan from creation was to have the Jesus die, how could he or anyone have changed it, how could the Jesus say he freely laid his life down when he had no control over the event?

 

You: As far as God calling “his people” goes, “all people are God’s people, rather Jew or Gentiles”. All the earth and everything in it belongs to him and he does with it as he so chooses. That was Paul’s overall point, and he was completely right. IMO

Me: Of course all of creation belongs to God, that’s not what’s in question; Paul says and teaches there isn’t a difference with whom God choses. Except who has God chosen and calls HIS people?

Exo 19:5-6 you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; 6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.

Duet 7:6 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

Duet 14:2 For you are a people holy to the Lord your God, and the Lord has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

God chose the Israelite’s as a “treasured possession” out of ALL PEOPLE for what purpose – “to be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” When did God change HIS mind and include all mankind as HIS “treasured possession”? Does that mean God has rejected all none Jews and are they forbidden from worshiping God? Absolutely NOT!! Still haven’t looked into Noahide (what God expects of the rest of the world) have you.

So Paul quoting Hosea and includes the Gentile as being Lo-rahama (not pitied) and Lo-ammi (not my people) is a twisting of God’s words; all you have to do is read the book of Hosea to verify Paul’s misapplication of them; God was speaking to the Northern Kingdom, not the entire world as Paul says. This didn’t mean God completely rejected Israel, because HE later states one day HE will have pity on them and will call them HIS people again AND they will call HIM their God again. Nowhere does it speak of or to all mankind. How do you still think Paul isn’t an enemy of God’s?!?! Verify every quote Paul takes from the Tanakh and see if it’s being used in the original context or if he’s adding or taking away from it.

Is it stubbornness or fear that prevents you from seeing God’s truth?

In my last post to you I asked “what does the spirit tell you” and you give me your opinion; apparently the “spirit” didn’t tell you anything; didn’t give you any insights into Paul’s words!??! I don’t want opinions, I want facts.

[DesireTruth]

@Gene,

You: where did I or anyone here say God “MURDERED” JESUS. To say that is simply “a LIE”.

Me: Why are you shooting the messenger? If you are going to inject yourself into a conversation, please start at the beginning.

My question to Jodi was because of her statement of “God putting to death one man for the transgressions of others.” AGAIN, A QUESTION WAS ASKED FOR CLARITY!!!!! And you chose to get offended and go into attack mode.

Thank you for actually citing a passage, now we are both on the same page of understanding and all confusion is eliminated. HOWEVER, my response to you doesn’t change; both Peter and John make the claim the Jesus’ death was predetermined from creation.

1 Peter 1:19-20 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

How can the Jesus “freely” lay down his life when it was preordained from the beginning of time for him to do so? What choice did he really have? Was he going to defy the spirit that was in him?

You: I have read and studied the scriptures myself and the Spirit I received from God the Father brings them into my mind the “spirit of truth” tells me when I hear the truth or when I hear a lie.

Me: Let’s test your “truth meter” when Paul says in Rom 9:23-26:

23 And he did so in order that he could make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy that he prepared beforehand for glory, 24 us whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he also says in Hosea, “I will call those who were not my people, ‘My people,’and those who were not loved, ‘Loved.’ 26 And it will be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ”

According to Paul the gentiles will also be call Gods’ people, not just the Jews. Paul takes the first part from from Hosea 2:23:

23 I will sow her for myself in the land; I will have pity on Lo-ruhama; I will say to Lo-ammi, “You are my people,”and he himself will say, “you are my God.”

and the second part from Hosea 1:10:

10 However, in the future the number of the people of Israel will be like the sand of the sea which can be neither measured nor numbered. Although it was said to them, “You are not my people,” it will be said to them, “You are children of the living God!”

Hosea was the prophet to the Northern Kingdom and a contemporary of Isaiah in the Southern; God told him to marry a prostitute and Hosea was to name the children after what God was going to do to the Northern Kingdom. Bore to him was a daughter and son, Lo-ruhama “not pitied” and Lo-ammi “not my people” respectively.

Paul says “I will call those who were not my people” is a reference to include the gentiles; but God says it’s the Northern Kingdom. Paul also changes “pitied” to “loved”; “love” wasn’t the name given.

So did Paul twist God’s word to make it say what it was never intended to or was Paul interpreting the Hosea passages as it was intended? If he did interpret them correctly, can you explain how a reference to Israel could/would be a reference to gentiles? If Paul didn’t interpret the passage correctly, that makes him a liar. What does the “spirit” tell you? Elaborate! Don’t hold back, because I need to know what the truth is.

[DesireTruth]

@Gene,

You: I Answered your question to Jodi, and instead of answering the scriptures I gave you, you simply ignore them and shift to something else

Me: You provided zero scriptures in your response to the Jodi question. AND you will notice in my response to you I quoted exactly what you said and responded to YOUR statement the Jesus “voluntarily sacrificed” himself. I gave you two passages that say the Jesus couldn’t of done it of his freewill because it was “predestined” to happen from the creation. What did I shift?!?!? The reality is you have mastered the tactic of shifting away from the topic at hand. By the way you answered none of my questioned concerning the millennial reign as they are what we call “follow up” questions and are done to seek further clarification, which you avoided.

 

You: Every question you ask in your last post I and can and did answer in the posts, “for those who have eyes to see”.

Me: Sorry, but you haven’t provided a single scripture to support your millennial story. My eyes are open, are yours?

 

You: you have rejected the whole, New Testament, and even much of what is written in the Old Testament It appears ?, IMO

Me: Of course I’ve rejected the NT; it’s not the word of God. No matter how many times it repeated the NT is the “inspired word of God” doesn’t make it so. How can the NT be the “inspired word of God” when every religion argues about what it says? You falsely state I’ve rejected much of the Tanakh; let me clarify, I’ve rejected christianity’s interpretations of the Tanakh, I have rejected christianity’s twisting of the Tanakh, I have rejected christianity’s misquoting of the Tanakh, and I’ve rejected the corruption christianity has inserted into the Tanakh. The Tanakh IS God’s word…period!

The reality Gene, you’re running from answering the questions…which actually make sense. Pastors did it too when I began asking the “wrong” questions, and they’re “educated” in religion; so I shouldn’t fault you because you’re only learning from them. But it does solidify you believe what you’ve been told to believe and are unwilling to challenge the doctrines of religious beliefs and verify whether or not what you’re told is truth or not.

You claim the Jesus will return by 2032 (it did have a good laugh); many people throughout history have tried predicting the Jesus’ return and every single one has been wrong; what makes you believe you are right? I’m here until 11:59pm December 31, 2032 just so I can ask where is your Jesus?

You really should stop closing with “Peace and love to you and yours”; because they’re empty words you don’t really mean. Since I have walked away from christianity you have shown me only contempt, not peace or love.

[DesireTruth]

@Gene,

Can I ask why you decided to jump to a question I asked Jodi verses answering the questions I asked you to clarify in our last discussion concerning the “millennial reign”? For your memory enjoyment:

Why is God “testing” everyone who is already “saved”? The first “saving” wasn’t an actual “saving”; wasn’t it good enough?

Aren’t those who are left on earth spared from the fiery pit because they turned to the Jesus?

What about those who were “raptured away”, are they exempt from this testing and why?

Was their “saving” more superior to those who came to the Jesus after the “rapture”?

Why would people after a 1000 years of utopia with God suddenly begin rejecting HIM and start sinning again?

So what happens to those who fail this “test”, will they also be cast into the Lake of Fire?

Explain how this aligns with the Tanakh when God is the one who said HE doesn’t take pleasure in the death of anyone AND goes on to tell all how they can live.

 

You: There was no murder ever committed by God, it was all a voluntary sacrifice on Jesus’ part.

Me: But was it really the Jesus’ “voluntary” choice???

1 Peter 1:19-20 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Peter and John seem to say this was foreordained before the foundation of the world. Since the Jesus’ death was predetermined from before creation, explain what “choice” did the Jesus messiah have?

[DesireTruth]

@Carmel,

First, would you like a little cheese with your whine? Maybe a cracker to wash it down? Me saying your writing style s*cks:

As a side note, can you please write in a normal fashion; your format is extremely distracting and hard to follow. Stop with the all caps, there is no need to constantly yell.

Your writing format is to difficult to follow and I don’t have time to read one liners and decipher what you’re trying to say, try paragraph format, it’s how the rest of the world actually writes.

You: PAUL CONFIRMED THAT JESUS IS GOD! NO? (copy and pasted in all your yelling glory)

You: DT. ANSWER PLEASE: WHO SAVED THE GENTILES? (just have to yell…)

Then you go on to say (yelling of course) “LET’S YOU AND ME DISCOVER THE TRUTH!”

Me: always with the yelling…WHY?!?

Then you say, yelling of course, “ WHAT I WROTE IS PURE TRUTH, AND IT STANDS!”

writing in all caps means your yelling and is rude

If you believe I have not read what you write, that’s because I don’t; if you would like me to, write normal.

Your writing format is one of the main reasons I choose not to respond to you, let alone read all you write.

Your right I haven’t criticized your writing style…ever…and no, I won’t waste my time going back over a years+ worth of writing on the forum to link each one. If you want and have this need to be fulfilled, go find it yourself! Have you received the hint yet?!? You style of writing is horrific and obnoxious and I am done with it. I don’t know how much more plainer it gets!

 

Second, to claim you are this “super spiritual being” and the “spirit of God” has revealed thing to you, explain why no one has the same “spiritual” understanding as you?

 

Me: Also, why do you believe your writing style is “emphatic, expressive, and impactful” and not annoying to me

You: Annoying you, as I mentioned, only if you were, as it seems, by this particular post ONLY, A LIE

Me: So not only are you at one with God, you magically have the power to know what annoys me. You are truly an amazing being…Jesus is that you!?!?! WAIT, never mind; Jesus isn’t divine. Additionally, who speaks this way “as I mentioned, only if you were, as it seems, by this particular post ONLY”?!?! You couldn’t put this into a single phrase; you had to make it in four separate clauses?!?! WHY!! Do you think this makes you sound more intelligent? Articulating a concise thought make you sound like you know what you’re talking about; when one gets wordy, they sound like an id10t.

 

You: Do you want me to believe that you don’t want to respond because of my writing format? YOU MUST BE JOKING!

Me: Not joking at all. You’re writing format sux and annoys me! And I tire of it as it’s one of my peeves; people who can’t communicate in the written format…that’s you!

 

You: In my last post, I produced specifically more than enough of your responses, and made clear that throughout the eighteen months of your participation in these forums, you never DIRECTLY SPECIFICALLY and CONSISTENTLY asked me to change my writing format, as you did in the post before the last,! THE FACT THAT YOU NEVER PRODUCED ANYTHING TO JUSTIFY YOURSELF!

Me: Read above! I shouldn’t have to “justify” anything; I’ve already written it! Sorry you couldn’t recall me saying it. Is that why you demanded that I use the “me and you” format when replying to your posts?

 

You: DON’T RUSH TO CONCLUSIONS, AGAIN TO REMIND YOU; MY PERSPECTIVES ARE SPIRITUAL!

Me: Keep telling yourself that! Still and always with the YELLING…so rude!

 

You: THE ONLY TRUE PHYSICAL GOD ON EARTH!

Me: YELL, YELL, AND YELL SOME MORE!!! Jesus isn’t God and isn’t the true Messiah (post #946290 that I have posted a number of times but you were to lazy to find or read back a little and find what I posted to Jodi)

 

You: “the Jesus will rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem” DT. SPIRITUALY, JESUS ALREADY FUFILLED THE ABOVE!

Me: When? (of course with more yelling!!!!)

 

The Tanakh is the indisputable foundation to the NT, prove the NT against the Tanakh! Prove the Jesus fulfilled what the Tanakh said about the Messiah! Prove what you believe is truth.

If you don’t respond to this in paragraph format and without all your yelling, you will not receive another reply from me (this is the final straw, I’m done) and it will have nothing to do with me NOT being able to debate you (I’ve debated more intelligent!!), but everything to do with you not being able to communicate in a standard format and me not wanting to decipher everything you write because it’s in your “emphatic, expressive, and impactful” format. Are you having a hard time there is someone in the world who doesn’t care for your writing style? Maybe I’m the only one willing to tell the truth about how horrid it is.

[DesireTruth]

@Carmel,

Your response shows up as a period on the forum; what I received in the email update is HTML garbage. Your “emphatic, expressive, and impactful” writing style falls flat if it can’t be read. Learn how to write! You may also want to check your coding for errors since it didn’t post properly.

This is what I received and will not waste my time with it:

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

You sure do like to read between the lines don’t you? No where did I say not to study; but to self study and rely on your own conclusions and call them truth without confirmation, can get you into trouble. One can make anything say whatever they want it and call it truth (think of the over 30,000 different religions worldwide today). What I have said along is to verify what you have been told is truth and you claiming “angels” is a reference to “false prophets” is absolutely wrong; not because I say so, but because the text doesn’t support it.

TANGENT WARNING: [Am I in error for saying the Jesus isn’t the Messiah, because the majority says he is? According to you I am; but you having a minority view that doesn’t align with the text or the majority, makes you correct?!? I have asked for proof the Jesus did all that was prophesied about the Messiah and I get an unsubstantiated claim “he’ll do it when he returns.” Nowhere in the Tanakh does it ever speak of the Messiah coming twice, first time claiming to be the Messiah, not doing what God said he was to accomplish, leave, and then return a second time to accomplish what was prophesied about him and this is what the majority of christians believe is truth. BUT, don’t know why!]

The plain word understanding is “heavenly angels”; you called angels false prophets and I pointed out commentaries also support it’s a reference as “heavenly angels”; but somehow I’m being contradictory?!? I needed no commentary to tell me the reference in both passages spoke of “heavenly angels.” I can safely say if you asked anyone who is being referenced, you will get “heavenly angels” as the response.

The reality is these passages in Jude 6 and II Pet 2:4 conflict with your belief angels can only do as God commands so you’ve made up angels being a reference to false prophets. Explain what “domain” a false prophet could have left, what “dwelling place” was their own, and what “everlasting bonds” are they in until judgment?

What does Jer 23:11-16 have to do with angels being “false prophets”?

Can’t wait for your explanation of Jude verse 9; please don’t make we wait another seven months…

The angels doing only God’s will brings up another interesting thought; think about the story of the Jesus casting “legions” into the herd of pigs who then ran into the water and drowned. Wouldn’t the Jesus be responsible for the destruction of personal property and animal cruelty? Why was he in a Gentile region and why, after performing this “miracle”, did the people begged him to leave? Why would they beg the Jesus to leave after performing a great “miracle” on the possessed men, why didn’t they want to know more, two violent possessed men are now gentle and peaceful? Could it be they begged the Jesus to leave because he destroyed their food supply and didn’t want to lose anymore?

One must also consider the herdsman tending the hogs, most likely they were hired hands to manage and keep them safe. As the hired hands, they would have been responsible for any harm that would have come to the animals; makes one wonder what happened to them since the entire herd was drowned. What explanation do these herdsman give for why the entire herd is dead?

Thinking aloud.

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

You: I pointed out there is quite the difference between God commanding Israel not to murder their children in worship of false gods verses God putting to death one man for the transgressions of others where that man is raised shortly thereafter back to life.

Me: HE murdered his son for the “transgressions of others”, like a bull on an altar? On what plane does that make sense to you? There is so much wrong in what you said. Isn’t murder, murder and called a sin? Are you saying God can sin? Still waiting for when God changed and said the innocent can be responsible for the actions of the guilty.

 

You: you won’t tell me who the “righteous servant” of Isaiah 53 is.

Me: I’ve requested your patience; apparently, you have none. No where in this chapter does it say “messiah” or “suffering” servant; christianity extrapolates and inserts this “messiah” idea because the verbiage sounds like “what happened” to the Jesus. You claimed the “our” is the disciples and are speaking on behalf of mankind. Berean says it’s the prophets; who’s right? Of course you are! Let’s save some time; the “servant” is mentioned in Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3 and it’s not a reference to a “messiah”, let alone the Jesus; but a reference to Jacob and Israel. Please explain how the servant changed from Jacob and Israel to your Jesus in 53 when in the chapters leading up to chapter 53 say the servant is Jacob and Israel?

Who are the “witnesses” and “my servant” in Isa 43:10; start reading in verse 1.

You like the “servant” of 42:1, but your “servant” is also blind and deaf in verse 19…hmmmm.

In Jer 30:10, Jacob is called “my servant.”

In Jer 46:27&28 Jacob is called “my servant” again.

Read Luke 1:54 “He has helped Israel his servant”, once again the servant is explicitly stated to be Israel.

Why do you think I keep asking who is speaking where in Isa 52:13-53:12; knowing this helps with understanding the entire passage. In 52:13-15 the speaker is stating the servant will be elevated and this will “startle” many nations leaving the nations kings speechless. The kings then gain an “understanding” to the elevation of the servant. 52:15 says “kings shall shut their mouths For they shall see what has not been told them, and they shall consider with full attention what they have not heard.” The next response 53:1 can only be the kings of nations asking who will believe what they came to understand (“our report”). Please explain how the “our” could possible be the disciples or the prophets speaking in 53:1; how does one go from shocked kings to disciples/prophets giving an unbelievable report? Do you begin reading a book in the middle?

 

You respond with “come again” to my statement of it being pointless to speak on any other topic if the Jesus isn’t the true Messiah. What does anything else matter if the Jesus isn’t the true Messiah? If we’re being honest, everything else is moot and is a waste of energy. I have given scriptural examples showing the Jesus couldn’t be the Messiah and you give me church teachings. The church can’t even agree with what your NT says; meanwhile each denomination claiming the “spirit has revealed.” NONSENSE, if the “spirit of God” has revealed something, everyone would have the same understanding; but you don’t. Why doesn’t that cause you pause?

 

You: Would salvation not begin with God forgiving transgressions?

Me: You couldn’t have said it more perfect, salvation does begin with God; explain why I would need the Jesus if the source of salvation comes from God?

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

You: Jewish represents that you are of the tribe of Judah, they are one and the same.

Me: Jewishness is represented by the fact the child’s mother is Jewish and has nothing to do with tribal association. We can say the Jesus’ mother is Jewish, thus making him Jewish. The contention is his daddy, because the father is who determines tribal association (Numbers 1:2). So being Jewish doesn’t mean your from the tribe of Judah. Guess again.

 

You: I am assuming you meant “improbable”

Me: NO, I meant IMPROVABLE; because you cannot prove “in vitro” fertilization is what happened. This is a creation of your mind and is the most “logical” solution for you because we cannot have God impregnating mortal women because that’s what happened in the pagan religions of the day (Roman and Greek).

You go on to quote Is 7:14 as proof; yet, when one reads this chapter and the next, it has nothing to do with any messianic prophecy. The “sign” you so adamantly want to say is the “birth of the child”, and somehow pointing to the Jesus, isn’t the sign; if you read what is actually written the “sign” is before the boy knows to reject evil and choose good the kingdoms coming against King Ahaz will fall. Christianity will reject God’s words in favor of their religion. You literally have to ignore and turn a blind eye to what is written before and after verse 14 to believe it speaks of the Jesus 700 years later! It’s all about CONTEXT!!!

 

You: the text says “shall assemble the outcasts of Israel”, have you not heard of the “lost tribes of Israel”? There are 12 tribes of Israel, Judah is only one of them, where are the rest? Those of the tribe of Judah we know that they dwell in Israel and are also dispersed throughout the nations, but where are all the people of the other 11 tribes? Regardless, God is going to have the Messiah gather together all the people of all the tribes to whom have been dispersed together. This occurs when Jesus Christ comes and sits on his father David’s throne.

Me: “shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” Not sure if you know this but the nation of Israel was fractured into two kingdoms, the northern kingdom (Israel) and the southern (Judah). Please provide a NT passage that states the Jesus will gather the Israelite’s back to their land.

 

Look up “almah” and “betulah” and explain the differences.

 

You: You quote Ezek 37:26,27 and say “There is nothing in this text that says the Messiah is to build a third temple.”

Me: I should have started at verse 24 and ended at 28 to put it into perspective:

24 “My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. 25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.” Are you saying God is going to physically build the temple or will his servant David (aka Messiah) the king? There is more one can glean from this passage too. It says the “nations” (not just the believers in the Jesus of nations) will know it is God who sanctifies Israel once the temple is built. It is God who has set Israel apart from all other nations. Nothing about “christians” who believe in the Jesus.

This passage also proves Paul is a liar and an enemy of God when he states “there is neither Jew or Gentile”; sounds like the Jewish people have been set apart from all other nations and there IS a difference in God’s eyes.

 

Me: Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?

You: OT prophecy is that the Messiah will come and establish peace, which is exactly what Jesus is going to do when he comes. NT teaches that Jesus is going to return at a time our heavenly Father only knows and when our Messiah is sent THEN he will receive his kingship over David’s throne and establish God’s kingdom of peace. Where on earth did you get the idea that people believe Jesus is ruling right now on earth that we should then see peace? Never heard such an outlandish idea lol.

Me: Please re-read, nowhere did I suggest “the Jesus is ruling now”; I asked two questions and neither implied the Jesus was “ruling today.” Comprehension is your friend! Read what I actually wrote and not what you believe I did.

 

You: God’s Spirit will come to dwell in the people which will cause them to walk in all of God’s ways WHEN Jesus Christ comes to be our king.

Me: That is NOT what Jer 31:31-34 says “declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts.” There is nothing about God spirit “dwelling” in anyone. Upon who’s heart will God place HIS law? Mankind!?!?!? Verse 31 says it’s the “house of Israel and the house of Judah”; how do you get all of mankind? According to christianity we aren’t under the “law.” So what “law” is going to be placed within them? If the “law” is anything other than what was originally given to the Israeli nation, it would mean our unchanging God changed.

 

The major theme of what you wrote and believe is the Jesus will accomplish all what is prophesied about the Messiah when he “returns”; however, nothing of what you wrote did you prove he is the true Messiah. All you gave where inferences provided to you by church teachings and none of it is backed up with passages from your NT. Did any of the prophets speak about a messiah that showed up and did nothing that was written about him, but would at a later date?

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

There is only one thing that matters in your response and it has to do with whether the Jesus is the true Messiah or not and every response that doesn’t resolve this is pointless. IS THE JESUS THE TRUE MESSIAH!?!?! This is the only question that matters! If the Jesus doesn’t fulfill one requirement of what is outlined in the Tanakh, can he be the true Messiah? Remember, I didn’t say this; God did thru HIS prophets!

In every response concerning the validity of the Jesus as being the messiah I have included a link back to the original post outlining what the Tanakh says the Messiah is to be and what he is to do; somehow you missed when I said “here’s the link again” referencing back to post number 946920. That’s neither here nor there, but tells me you aren’t reading what I’m writing.

For your reading enjoyment here is what I posted originally posted concerning the Jesus being the true Messiah:

He must be Jewish
“…you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you.” (Deuteronomy 17:15)

He must be a member of the tribe of Judah
“The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet…” (Genesis 49:10)

To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah; not some improvable, made up in vitro fertilization

He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son
“And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever…” (2 Samuel 7:12 – 13)

The genealogy of Joseph states he is not the biological father of Jesus since it was the spirit that came upon Mary. The other genealogy is through Nathan and not Solomon.

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel
“And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isaiah 11:12)

Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of Jesus? What does christianity teach, that failure to believe in the Jesus condemns you to hell.

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem
“…and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them..” (Ezekiel 37:26 – 27)

At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was destroyed! Just the opposite of this prophecy!

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace
“…they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” (Micah 4:3)

Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?

He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d’s commandments

“My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes.” (Ezekiel 37:24)

The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d
“And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd” (Isaiah 66:23)

There are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold. In christianity it is taught there is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; believe in the trinity or not, you believe in the trinity.

Please provide the passages within the NT that state the Jesus will be and do the aforementioned when he returns because he obviously didn’t any of this while he was here.

[DesireTruth]

@Gene,

Once again you continue to ignore the elephant in the room; when are you going to prove the Jesus is the true Messiah according to what was written in the Tanakh about the Messiah? Why do you keep running away?

 

You: I explained to you about why God has the millennium period, and for what reason he is doing it, did that also fly over your head, do you just shut off anything written in response to you?

Me: Sorry, your story doesn’t make any sense, none of what you wrote is verifiable (even in the NT), and why did you ignore every question asked? The questions where asked, not because I enjoy writing, but for clarification. Why is God “testing” everyone who is already “saved”? The first “saving” wasn’t an actual “saving”; wasn’t it good enough? Aren’t those who are left on earth spared from the fiery pit because they turned to the Jesus? What about those who were “raptured away”, are they exempt from this testing and why? Was their “saving” more superior to those who came to the Jesus after the “rapture”? Why would people after a 1000 years of utopia with God suddenly begin rejecting HIM and start sinning again? So what happens to those who fail this “test”, will they also be cast into the Lake of Fire? Explain how this aligns with the Tanakh when God is the one who said three times HE doesn’t take pleasure in the death of anyone (passages for your reading pleasure) AND then goes on to tells all how they can live.

Ezek 18:23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?

Ezek 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.

Ezek 33:11 Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live

This ISN’T one “saving themselves”, salvation only comes from God; and HE doesn’t need help to “redeem” HIS creation.

Explain Gen 4:7 “If you do well, won’t it be lifted up? If you don’t do well, sin crouches at the door. Its desire is for you, but you are to rule over it.” Are you telling me we don’t have power over sin? Cain didn’t have the Jesus when God said the above. Since we are to “rule” over our sin, it can only “devour” us if we let it. Did you forget Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; so by partaking of this fruit they now have the understanding of what is good and what is evil.

 

Concerning the rest of what you wrote:

“Holy Spirit” is mentioned three times in the Tanakh Ps 51:11, Is 63:10, Is 63:11 and in each of these instances “holy” is used as an adjective to describe the Spirit. Not once is it used to infer another part of God, because God IS spirit and HE IS holy. The NT however has created this other “entity” of God and has given it a first and last name, “Holy Spirit.”

[DesireTruth]

@Gene,

I never said “I” was able to save myself; I said God has given all mankind the path to forgiveness. If you have a question ask, stop making assumptions and put words in my mouth I didn’t say.

God never mentioned a “holy spirit” in the Tanakh; a NT creation and why there’s the doctrine of the Trinity.

Please explain the “millennial reign”; why would or what purpose would God have in a 1000 years of peace and then “release Satan” to reek havoc on mankind again? If mankind is enjoying 1000 years of peace and worshiping God, who would turn from this utopia and embrace evil again? Who would have been left that wasn’t “converted”? After all, when the Jesus comes back isn’t he to judge the world and those who don’t believe in him are condemned and those who do live. It would seem the only ones left would be the “true believers”; so who’s “falling away”? You believe you are “filled with the spirit”, along with every other person posting here; yet, you aren’t in agreement. Isn’t it suppose to be the same “spirit”? What you believe is a fairy tail!

Please find in the Tanakh were God speaks of this “millennial age.” You still haven’t answered my question if the Jesus fulfills what the Tanakh says the true Messiah will be and what he will do. Please provide the NT passages that confirm he will accomplish the following when he returns:

“the Jesus will gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel”

“the Jesus will rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem”

“the Jesus will will rule at a time of world-wide peace”

“the Jesus will will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe the “obsolete commands” of God.

“the Jesus will will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one God.”

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

My guess you still haven’t looked up the provided passages concerning to whom the “arm of the Lord” was revealed. What are you afraid of?

It’s never to late to turn back to Hashem! HE is always waiting for you with out stretched arms, because HE loves HIS creation.

[Author]

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